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680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 09:20:10 AM
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101  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2019 Tour Thread on: July 03, 2019, 05:16:56 AM
Truly sad indeed. It is gut wrenching to imagine members of my favourite group being seen next to that creature they elected leader. It's a consolation that neither of the Wilsons or Jardine would ever consider being seen in any connection to what's going on right now.
102  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's most active late-70's period on tour on: June 30, 2019, 06:24:38 AM
 w00t! for letting go and enjoying the time you have left!
103  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs That Could’ve Fit On Pet Sounds on: June 18, 2019, 03:15:42 PM
In The Back Of My Mind

Arguably more Pets Sounds-ish than several of the songs on the album
104  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Honkin' Down the Highway Single/LOVE YOU Marketing on: June 15, 2019, 02:03:13 PM
Hard to imagine anything succeeding commercially after 15 Big Ones came out.
105  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Deep question concerning 'You Still Believe In Me' on: June 13, 2019, 02:57:51 PM
There are so many toxic concepts about what it means to be a "man". Men are sadly often derided and put down for not being "man enough". The gender role of the man is oppressive towards men as it prevents men from being allowed to show emotions and for being themselves. This kind of toxic masculinity is also extremely oppressive towards women, but that's a separate discussion. I think Brian's music and Asher's lyrics (and that Brian was comfortable singing these lyrics at a time like 1966)  show great musical and emotional maturity from both of them.
106  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Recordings by Elton John, Nirvana and Thousands More Lost in Fire (NYT) on: June 12, 2019, 04:12:15 AM
I hope this article is relevant enough for the GOTP board. No mention of recordings made by the Beach Boys or its members being destroyed, but many of the artists that inspired them, such as Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly apparently had their entire collection of master tapes destroyed.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/us/master-recordings-universal-fire.html

transcript of article below

Recordings by Elton John, Nirvana and Thousands More Lost in Fire

A New York Times investigation has revealed that decades of Universal Music Group treasures burned in 2008.

Eleven years ago this month, a fire ripped through a part of Universal Studios Hollywood.

At the time, the company said that the blaze had destroyed the theme park’s “King Kong” attraction and a video vault that contained only copies of old works.

But, according to an article published on Tuesday by The New York Times Magazine, the fire also tore through an archive housing treasured audio recordings, amounting to what the piece described as “the biggest disaster in the history of the music business.”

What happened?
The fire started in the early hours of June 1, 2008.

Overnight, maintenance workers had used blowtorches to repair the roof of a building on the set of New England Street, a group of colonial-style buildings used in scenes for movies and television shows. The workers followed protocol and waited for the shingles they worked on to cool, but the fire broke out soon after they left, just before 5 a.m.

The flames eventually reached Building 6197, known as the video vault, which housed videotapes, film reels and, crucially, a library of master sound recordings owned by Universal Music Group.

Hundreds of firefighters responded to the fire. After trying to douse it with foam retardant and water from a nearby lake, emergency personnel decided to dismantle the warehouse containing the vault to more easily put out the fire.

What was lost?
Almost all of the master recordings stored in the vault were destroyed in the fire, including those produced by some of the most famous musicians since the 1940s.

In a confidential report in 2009, Universal Music Group estimated the loss at about 500,000 song titles.

The lost works most likely included masters in the Decca Records collection by Billie Holiday, Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Al Jolson, Bing Crosby, Ella Fitzgerald and Judy Garland. The fire probably also claimed some of Chuck Berry’s greatest recordings, produced for Chess Records, as well as the masters of some of Aretha Franklin’s first appearances on record.

Almost of all of Buddy Holly’s masters were lost, as were most of John Coltrane’s masters in the Impulse Records collection. The fire also claimed numerous hit singles, likely including Bill Haley and His Comets’ “Rock Around the Clock,” Etta James’s “At Last” and the Kingsmen’s “Louie Louie.”

The list of artists affected spans decades of popular music. It includes recordings by Ray Charles, B.B. King, the Four Tops, Joan Baez, Neil Diamond, Sonny and Cher, Joni Mitchell, Cat Stevens, Gladys Knight and the Pips, Al Green, Elton John, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Buffett, the Eagles, Aerosmith, Rufus and Chaka Khan, Barry White, Patti LaBelle, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, the Police, Sting, Steve Earle, R.E.M., Janet Jackson, Guns N’ Roses, Mary J. Blige, No Doubt, Nine Inch Nails, Snoop Dogg, Nirvana, Beck, Sheryl Crow, Tupac Shakur, Eminem, 50 Cent and the Roots.

What are master recordings, and why do they matter?
A master recording is the one-of-a-kind original recording of a piece of music. It’s the source from which other vinyl records, CDs, MP3s and all other recordings are made.

According to the article, documents show that the vault contained masters dating back decades, including multitrack recordings on which individual instruments remained isolated from one another. There were also session masters, including recordings that had never been commercially released. The recordings within the vault came from to some of the most important record labels of all time.

Audiophiles and audio professionals view such recordings with special regard.

“A master is the truest capture of a piece of recorded music,” Adam Block, the former president of Legacy Recordings, Sony Music Entertainment’s catalog arm, told the magazine. “Sonically, masters can be stunning in their capturing of an event in time. Every copy thereafter is a sonic step away.”

Why are we only finding about this now?
At the time, the fire made news around the world, and the vault featured heavily in that coverage. But most articles focused only on the video recordings in the archive and, even then, news outlets largely characterized the disaster as a crisis averted.

Jody Rosen, the writer of the article, described the successful effort to play down the scope of the loss as a “triumph of crisis management” that involved officials working for Universal Music Group on both coasts. Those efforts were undoubtedly aimed at minimizing public embarrassment, but some suggest the company was also particularly worried about a backlash from artists and artist estates whose master recordings had been destroyed.

The real extent of the loss was laid out in litigation and company documents obtained by Mr. Rosen, a contributing writer for the magazine.

How bad is the loss?
Mr. Rosen described the loss as historic, and even Universal Music Group itself — privately — viewed what happened in bleak terms: “Lost in the fire was, undoubtedly, a huge musical heritage,” reads one 2009 internal assessment.

Record companies have had a troubled history with such recordings and have been known to trash them in bulk. Decades ago, employees of CBS Records reportedly took power saws to multitrack masters to sell the reels as scrap metal. In the 1970s, RCA destroyed masters by Elvis Presley in a broader purge.

Because of that history, industry professionals have long questioned how committed the major music labels are to preserving what they see as priceless artifacts.

Today, most commercial recordings from the past century and beyond are controlled by only three giant record companies: Sony Music Entertainment, Warner Music Group and, of course, Universal Music Group.

further reading

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article#commentsContainer
107  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Camel Toe the song based on Kokomo on: June 10, 2019, 02:57:51 AM
Pretty classless imo.
108  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What is the name of that Brian song.... on: May 31, 2019, 07:22:13 AM
That God Only Knows performance is absolutely stunning. How much of that performance is 100% live? I feel in the coda that there are multiple Brian voices. Nonetheless, it's breathtakingly beautiful and fills me with a warm sensation each time I hear it.

Hopefully a higher quality version will surface some day.
109  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brians caring personality on: May 25, 2019, 02:47:12 PM
Brian, Carl and Dennis have always given me the impression that they were all deeply caring people who also struggled with great personal difficulties, much of it rooted to how they were mistreated by their father.
110  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: May 16, 2019, 09:04:57 AM
I must agree with the sentiment that the oldies make for a better experience when distributed evenly throughout the show.

What I find great about the 1973-75 shows is how they would throw in a "crowd pleaser" oldie every 4 songs or so. Little Deuce Coupe, 4 newer songs, Surfer Girl, 4 newer songs, Catch A Wave, 4 newer songs, etc.

It meant that each oldie had an impact and kept the show going at a very pleasant pace. The C50 shows suffered from having all the oldie hits clumped together in the first set. At some point the sound of the early songs become monotonous. This is especially the case if they play the oldies by theme with 4 consecutive car songs followed by 4 consecutive surfing songs.
111  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Good Timin' / Mike lead - in clip on: May 15, 2019, 04:23:25 AM
The lead on "Help Me, Rhonda" was handled by Al, Dennis and Carl at various times.
"Sail On, Sailor" has had Blondie, Billy and Carl on lead.
112  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BB albums sabotaged by one song on: May 11, 2019, 09:17:07 AM
Holland - Only With You

This love ballad does not fit with the overall feel or theme of the album, imo. I think including We Got Love would've made for an improvement.
113  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Cease To Exists Question on: May 07, 2019, 03:42:31 PM
Probably recorded before he figured Manson was best to be avoided?
114  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian live webcast tonite on: May 06, 2019, 07:38:45 AM
Regarding Brian, I hope he doesn't sing because of an obligation that he has to sing his songs. His presence enough, overseeing the performance of his songs by his extremely talented touring band is more than enough for the average fan. For instance, Roger Waters doesn't really sing on many of his songs either, apart from playing some bass and doing some backup vocals.

I just hope that he realises that no fan would ever feel disappointed with his decision to sing or not sing, that's all.
115  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Remixes (fan made) of Little Bird and Friends on: May 03, 2019, 03:37:31 AM
Thought these delightful remixes of the two great tunes from the Friends album could be of interest to the fan community. Credit due to sammy souseki for putting them out!

Little Bird: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWqnPlgttv8&ab_channel=sammysouseki

Friends: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4COIF6rvTIE&ab_channel=sammysouseki

Hopefully a fully remixed album will be released some day  Smiley
116  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Scott Bennett Update: He's Due to Be Released on: April 23, 2019, 02:52:33 AM
As far as we know,  this was Scott's first offense. Which means there is hope that he has learned from his mistake. Perhaps it will keep him away from alcohol,  knowing what he is capable of. I think there is a big difference between a serial rapist, and someone who got drunk and couldn't control themselves. I agree, the harm on the victim is the same. But the question is if Scott should be considered dangerous after serving a year in prison? I know most of us, if we did something stupid that we had never done before, and spent a year in prison, it would scare us straight! Weather that means stop drinking, or get counsiling for sex addiction or whatever. A serial rapist on the other hand, is someone who has done it many times over and were perfectly sober for doing so. Some may say that Scott may have done it other times. But our justice system protects innocence until proven guilty.  Thus, as far as the law is concerned,  he did this once, whole intoxicated. Each and every one of us have evil base desires that we have self control over. Which is why getting drunk or abusing drugs can be dangerous to ourselves and others. Therefore, if something has not been determined as a person's regular behavior,  I believe they deserve a second chance.

He did not rape because of alcohol. He raped because he views women as inferior and he wanted to exact and enjoy having power over that woman. The alcohol was a catalyst, not a cause.
117  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: April 23, 2019, 02:29:34 AM
More fuel for the fire since this thread started. Claims to be an early mix.

https://youtu.be/xrwCCHY1ibI


Brian is definitely present throughout the mix. You can hear him in the "waaah ooooh" parts and when the backing vocals sing the "Getcha Back". At 1:00 onwards it's distinctly Brian singing the ascending vocal. That distinct sound cannot be replicated by anybody else.

I can't hear other recognisable voices on this recording though. Seems legit to me! The falsetto is Adrian Baker?
118  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Career mishaps?? on: April 21, 2019, 11:55:24 AM
Main ones?

Imo...

- Not releasing Smile in spring 1967
- Not headlining Monterey Pop
- Not releasing a fragmented version of Smile - anything over the Smiley Smile re-recordings.
- Waltz pop is endearing, but as a career step Friends was nothing but a complete disaster.
- Not including 4th of July and WIBNTLA on Surf's Up.
- Not releasing Good Timin' as their comeback single in 1974/1975.
- Losing Ricky Fataar and Blondie Chaplin as band members.
- Losing Jack Rieley as band manager.
- 15 Big Ones. An album of originals was desired and warranted.
- Having any of Mike's family members involved in any capacity whatsoever.
- Allowing BJ back into the group, their very own Ned Flanders.

No need to address more points. Beyond 1979 it was all over anyway...
119  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Holy Man Record Store Day on: April 21, 2019, 07:25:03 AM
Not bad, but imho could've benefitted from a bit of production restraint. Less is more!
120  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Why does spotify keep screwing with the Beach Boys material? on: April 10, 2019, 06:05:19 AM
Is there any reason why Spotify keeps fucking with the Beach Boys catalogue?

- First they removed the Pet Sounds Sessions album.
- Then suddenly all the tracks on Hawthorne, CA compilation have had the music files completely mixed up with the titles on the UI.
- Just now they removed the vast majority of the GV box files.

What the heck??!! I cannot even blame this on Mike Love Huh
121  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BB albums sabotaged by one song on: March 28, 2019, 02:48:49 PM
Don't crucify me, but I think "Look (Song For Children)" is rubbish. It feels like the Smile version of Trombone Dixie. My Smile edits never includes it.
122  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The 'Caribou' Album (1973-1975) Compilation Mix on: March 28, 2019, 02:45:32 PM
I dunno, while again I think it's always fun to throw out theories, trying to formulate a 1975 BB album is sort of like trying to figure out what a 2004 "Beach Boys" album would have been like by cobbling together Brian tracks from "Gettin' in Over My Head", Mike's 2004 solo material, a couple Paley tracks, some Al demos, and so on. In both cases, it's not reflective in any way of what an album would have sounded like.

We just don't have enough recorded material to do anything but a compilation of scraps that circulate from the era. This is due both to some extant tapes not circulating, and also because the band never undertook a full-blown recording of an album during that time. Like most any era of the band, especially in the 70s and 80s, they were always recording something somewhere. There's enough post-KTSA, pre-BB'85 material to cobble together a "1983 album" too, but it wouldn't at all reflect an actual album that would have been released.

So for stuff like a "1975 album", you end up with a nearly Mike-less album. Even "Love You" featured Mike more prominently.

Of course this type of album reconstruction is very challenging given that there was no concerted effort to actually record an album. We have these various other titles circulating around but next to nothing is known about them. However, I think the 20/20 album is a good comparison for a 1975 album, itself being a mix of purposefully recorded songs, some Smile fragments, a Manson collaboration, various covers and a Wild Honey outtake.

For the 1975 album the confirmed titles available from the 1974 sessions at the Caribou ranch and in L.A are Good Timin', It's O.K., California Feelin', Ding Dang, Holy Man, Barnyard Blues and Battlehymn. Rainbows and Pacific Ocean Blues (early versions) were recorded in 1975. Hard Times, We Got Love, River Song were almost completed in 1972/1973 and certainly warranted release. They even toured with the two latter ones in their set lists in 1973. Reusing the 1969 outtakes Susie Cincinnati or Back Home is reasonable to assume as a similar decision was made for the 15 Big Ones (where both appeared) and Love You albums ("Good Time"). I do think that having Out In The Country included on a 1975 album is a stretch.

Regarding songwriting distribution; it's clear Dennis was the prominent creative force during this period, but Mike is represented by his songwriting on "It's O.K." and "We Got Love". Al doesn't have much because his songwriting during this period is undocumented at this point. This is why he would be represented by something like "Susie" provided he didn't contribute fresher material. Mike mentioned a Holland meets Sunflower sound in an interview from this period.

The real misfortune is that Carl doesn't have more leads from this period. I believe I read somewhere he did a scratch vocal for "Holy Man"? Perhaps the group would've rerecorded the leads for the Blondie songs since he had long since departed the group? Brian's involvement at this point would not be counted on.
123  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The 'Caribou' Album (1973-1975) Compilation Mix on: March 28, 2019, 12:56:58 PM
I think that they had the material to release an album in early 1975 if they went for a 20/20-style bits and bops sort of release. The recordings are available for this to be made into a genuine listening experience.

The 1975 album, titled Caribou (or whatever) would then look something like this.

Side A

River Song
Good Timin'
Hard Times
Barnyard Blues
Out In The Country
Carry Me Home

Side B

It's O.K.
Susie Cincinnati
We Got Love
Rainbows
Holy Man
Rolling Up To Heaven (hidden track)

It contains several songs featuring Blondie and Ricky, so a big question is if their material could legally be released by the band after they left. Also, no demo's (e.g. Lucy Jones, California Feelin) - only roughly completed songs. BONUS: NO BATTLEHYMN IN SIGHT!

I might also create a youtube clip for this what-if album!
124  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike working on yet another new album on: March 20, 2019, 04:00:08 PM
DO IT DO IT LETS DO IT WOOOOOO
125  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Toy Story 4 trailer is out (yes, this is on-topic) on: March 19, 2019, 11:37:04 AM
I just saw this! Great to see that the legacy of the Boys continue to have impact on popular culture  Smiley
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