Yes, I know. It *doesn't* really make sense to have lyrics in the Elements in the form of Vega-Tables, does it? Like I said, I'm aware of the well-reasoned counter-arguments, and that is one of the best!

I recall someone suggesting that an early, lyric-less version of Vega-Tables was maybe going to be in the Elements, and that's why the caption to the Frank Holmes drawing says: My Vega-Tables: The Elements. And then Brian and Van wrote lyrics and that made the song into its own track. And yes, I'm aware that this doesn't really make sense either. If there were no lyrics yet, how could the Homes caption read 'My Vega-Tables', as those are clearly part of the later lyrics?

...it IS a bloody incomprehensible Zen koan, I'm telling you!

MattB

PS Oh, and hypehat, thanks for the clarification about Ball & Mitt. So that's not a completed 12-minute Heroes And Villains under another name, either...! And I sincerely hope I'm wrong about all the vocals being erased too, just as much as you do...!

Good point, Roger - I had completely forgotten that too, despite having also read that book!

As I said elsewhere on this board today, I seem to recall that it was Domenic P that claimed to have heard the missing Part 2 of Surf's Up on a message board years ago... it feels as though it was the late 90s to me. But no-one knew if it was really Dom for sure. Or indeed, whether what he said was true!   

MattB

Part 2!  

15.   Vintage lead vocal for Barnyard

This strikes me as another possible candidate for a part that may have been recorded as a scratch or early vocal, mixed to acetate, and then deleted from the multitrack (possibly to make way for a better lead recording that never then happened), leaving a vocal-less tape. If so, unless there was such an acetate, and it's survived, I bet we're out of luck. But then again, there was that cryptic run-out groove message on the H&V 78rpm record… so maybe we're *in* luck...

16.   Acetate/mix from fall 1966 version of Heroes and Villains

Oh, I *wish*. Again, if an early test assembly was dubbed to acetate before later re-editing and recording on the multitrack by Brian, and that early acetate survived in someone's garage, say… (who could I be thinking of here? Clue: the name begins with 'D'… and ends with '…urrie Parks'), this *might* come true (and didn't Bruce have an H&V acetate, too?). However, seeing as this would be one of the 'holy grails' of the box set, and we've been led to understand that there probably won't be any of those, I'm guessing that no such recording has survived. But, oh… something incorporating, say, Barnyard, IIGS, and a bar fight… wouldn't it be nice?

17.   Previously unheard instrumental section from Surf’s Up

Again, this is another one of the holy grails, so I bet there's nothing like this on the set. But someone definitely said they'd heard it on one of these boards, years ago. Wasn't it Domenic P? I think it even preceded the SMiLE Shop board… might have been the American Band board in the late 90s. All I can remember in my ailing memory banks is that the poster said that the recording existed, and that it was in the hands of a collector, but that he could not say who it was, or say any more about it. So the whole thing might have been a complete put-on. We may never know, even after this box comes out!

18.   The Nov 29 recording “Jazz”

I seems to recall that this tape survives, and so I bet it would be easy to include the recording on a SMiLE box as a SMiLE-era relic, which it clearly is. But I would be amazed if it has anything to do with SMiLE. Most of the Wrecking Crew were experienced jazz players, so I bet this is just them footling around before the session proper started. It might be good, and it might be fun to hear, but I really think it's not going to be, say, a completed mix of The Elements under another name!


19.   Previously unheard piece pertaining to the Elements

This calls into question the whole issue of what's 'unheard'. There's plenty of SMiLE stuff that we've all known about for years that still hasn't been released on a commercial CD yet, including the only bit of the Elements we know about for sure, Fire. (yeah, I know it's appeared on videos like An American Band and all that, but the original '66 recording still hasn't been out on an official CD, as far as I can remember). It's been strictly boots only. So if we're talking 'unheard' in the commercial domain, then sure, you'll get Fire, at least. If you mean 'unheard' as in 'unheard outside the circle of the most top-level collectors and the official guardians of the BB tape vault', then I'd say this isn't very likely. I do wonder if the different versions of the piece released as 'H&V Intro' on the GV box, the darker ones with weird tuned percussion, had something to do with The Elements. It would be nice to hear those in decent quality(there are a couple, aren't there? I haven't listened to them for years). But who knows if they really did have anything to do with The Elements anyway…?

20.   Significant new clues/documentation into what comprised the air element (for bonus point, speculate on specifics of what that element turns out to be)

Oh, if only. How many times have we all pondered Brian's late-70s quote about it being an unfinished piano piece, and wondered which piece of music that might possibly refer to, or indeed wondered if he was just completely blowing off the interviewer in a late-70s coked-out haze with a quote he'd forgotten he said three minutes later? So much weight has been put on that quote, and so much speculation has derived from it, including my own ('An unfinished piano piece? A-*ha*!! He must mean the tag to Wind Chimes' etc etc), and we don't even know if he was just making something up on the spot to get Byron Preiss (or whoever it was again) off his back so he could get back to his hotel room and his Close Encounters-style mountain of gack. Or whatever…

I really don't know about The Elements — after so many years of wondering, I feel like I'm completely at a loss to speculate about it - but like I said above, I wonder if the 'tuned percussion' versions of H&V intro might have had something to do with the air element. But, really - God alone knows.


21.   Significant new clues/documentation into what comprised the earth element (for bonus point, speculate on specifics of what that element turns out to be)

I really, REALLY think the Earth element was Vega-Tables, and that all the other speculation is spurious. That's just my feeling, and I've thought that way for years. Hence, I would argue, what Frank Holmes wrote in the booklet captions. I know, I know, Vega-Tables is listed separately on the handwritten track-list. I can't explain that, other than to say that it was an error. That's just what I think. There are plenty of really good, well argued counter-arguments, I'm aware. But that's the theory I go with, for better or worse. And there's LOTS more on Vega-Tables (more than the mind can comfortably encompass, in fact) at the end of this discourse (see point 30).

22.   Significant new clues/documentation into what comprised the water element (for bonus point, speculate on specifics of what that element turns out to be)

In a similar fashion to my feelings on Vega-Tables and 'The Elements' (ie I have a gut feeling about this, but nothing to back it up and I'm aware that it flies in the face of many other excellent arguments and at least a *little* solid evidence…), I DON'T think that 'I Love To Say Dada' was the water element. I think it was just the water chant alone; and I think that chant will be on the new box set. I KNOW ILTSDD later evolved into Cool Cool Water, and that DOES have a strong water element. But I don't think ILTSDD was Water in the 66-7 SMiLE, if indeed there ever WAS a clear idea for what Water was going to be back then!

23.   Vocal parts for Old Master Painter and/or You Are My Sunshine

Well, there definitely is that vocal of Dennis's for YAMS which has made it to various boots, and I seem to remember hearing that that came from an acetate. If an acetate of the early May 11 66 'wild' version of H&V has survived down the years, I guess there might be some YAMS vocals on that? (see point 1)

24.   Excerpts from “Ball and Mitt” (Dec 15)

I know what everything on Catbirdman's list is, apart from this. For the love of Wilson, will someone fill me in? It sounds like another skit, but I have literally never heard of it until today. Or [evil thought] is this the 'Here Come De Honey Man' of this list?  

I'll take the next two questions together.

25.   Previously unheard section(s) from Heroes and Villains (for bonus points, speculate on specific sections)

AND

26.   Acetate/mix from 1967 version of Heroes and Villains

Well, what else could there be? The early 'wild' May 11 1966 version, maybe with bits of YAMS lyrics in there, if it's survived on acetate? An autumn assembly from a surviving Bruce acetate, say, maybe with integral edited-in versions of Barnyard and IIGS (possibly with vocals), and a recording of a fight in a cantina? Any of those would do me, but as that probably counts as a 'holy grail', its inclusion in this set is probably unlikely.

That makes the REAL holy grail even more unlikely… a test mix of a two-sided H&V single containing parts I and II, from, say, late February 1967. That would be great, but again, I REALLY think it ain't gonna happen.

There are SO many more questions I could ask about Heroes and Villains.

What was going to be in those part one and part two mixes? OK, so we think that part one was the 'cantina mix', first aired on the Smiley Smile/Wild Honey twofer in 1990. But if so, how come there's a session where the engineer announces that they're recording the tag to something like Take four of a revised version of Heroes and Villains… and then a piano plays something that sounds like the 'Do A Lot' section from Vega-Tables? THAT'S not in the cantina version. Was there ever a full arrangement of *that* section, and if so, where did it go?

And what about all the other bits that might have been in part two? Which ones, and what order do they go in? Where does the solo flutter horn go? What about 'Bridge to Indians', 'Prelude To Fade' (and its missing vocals)  and 'Soul Made Beautiful'? Was there more to 'Gee' instead of just the one line, 'How I love my girl'? Was 'He Gives Speeches' ever part of H&V, and if so, where? Were all the alternate takes of the Heroes and Villains chorus, as heard in the 'H&V (Sections)' track on the GV box set, intended for ONE version of Heroes & Villains, were they link tracks to be scattered throughout the album somehow, or were they just different attempts at getting the H&V chorus right with different feels, from which only one surviving version would eventually have been chosen and used by Brian? Was 'Swedish Frog' supposed to be there, or did Brian excise it himself?

Were the bits of Heroes and Villains I love most of all, namely the harmony sections used in the last minute of the Smiley Smile version ('my children were raised…' and 'sunny down snuff…') only recorded for the Smiley version, or were they recorded during 'prime-time' SMiLE in 66-7? If so, did they sound different then? They simply must have been VDP's lyrics on those sections (who else writes a play on words around 'so long', or indeed comes up with the phrase 'and sunny down snuff I'm alright'), but were they recorded during SMiLE, or did Brian only get around to cutting them in time for the Smiley Smile version? Oh, when it comes to H&V, I could just go on and on…

27.   Dennis Wilson’s “I Don’t Know”

Yum. Oh, yes please. Especially if it's known whether it was to be part of one of the many possible versions of SMiLE or not. But even if it isn't, I'd just like to hear this.

28.   Jasper Dailey recording(s)

I'd love to hear these as bonus tracks. No WAY are they SMiLE, but they were recorded during the sessions, like 'Jazz', so I say sure, bring it on. If possible.

29.   Previously unheard material from Carl’s “Tones”

Oh please, yes. I want to hear a more finished version of this tune even more than I'd like to hear 'I Don't Know'. There's SO much promise in the incomplete versions on Secret SMiLE. I'm far from sure if it was going to be for SMiLE, which seems to have been so much exclusively Brian's project,  and to have been referred to by all the other Beach Boys as such for years afterwards — but as this was recorded in the right time frame, I'd love to hear it. Actually, even if there ISN'T any more available than we've heard on Secret SMiLE, I'd still like the incomplete versions from there in primo quality.

30.   Previously unheard material from the April Vega-Tables sessions

Oh, God, again, yes, PLEASE. Vega-Tables is one of the greatest mysteries of SMiLE to me, and perhaps all the more so because it's been much less picked over than, say, Heroes and Villains, Cabin Essence, or Surf's Up. Most SMiLE scholars seem to skim past it, perhaps because there's a version of it on the GV box set that seems to make sense, and there's also lots of session material included on the SOT discs. But for me, all that material does is add to the confusion. It seems to me that we still know SO little about how the finished version of this song might have been structured.

Here's why. As I see it, anyway.

As I understand it, by April '67 Brian had the art of modular recording down pat, and was into recording (say) the backing for just one verse and one chorus of a song, and then recording a whole different set of vocals and overdubs on the adjacent tape tracks. Even though you only have one verse and one chorus, you can still mix a song out of this (maybe with the addition of a spliced-in bridge, if the song has one).

Your verse backing section has a set of vocals for both verse 1 AND verse two on different tracks. You mix one pass of it with the fader for the vocals on the first verse up, then you mix again, this time with the vocals for the second verse active - ALL MIXED FROM THE SAME BASIC SECTION OF TAPE. If you want to get complicated (and on Vega-Tables, Brian *did*), you also have a whole bunch of other overdubs on this section that you can call on to mix third and fourth verses if necessary, or which can be added or left out on each of the mixing passes. On Vega-Tables, there's laughter, bizarre percussion, all sorts of wordless Beach Boys harmony vocals and 'tuned laughter' harmony melodies, weird vegetable crunching and tearing effects, and some band members having coughing fits.

So if you know what you're doing, you run as many passes as you want verses, including those elements that are right for the section you're mixing. Let's say, in a completely made-up example of my own invention, that Brian decided that Verse 1 would consist of the verse backing (the piano), the verse 1 vocal ('I'm gonna be round my vegetables…') and the strange percussion (the tuned stuff and that 'floppy board' thingy that you hear at the end of the verse vocal). So he mixes that with those faders up.

Then he mixes verse 2 from the same piece of tape, but this time the mix pass includes other stuff: the verse 2 vocal 'I tried to kick the ball…', the crunching vegetables, and different Beach Boys backing vocals (the 'laughter' harmony vocals and group block harmonies, both of which sound at different times). And maybe other tape tracks, like the band laughing or coughing. Or maybe you keep those tracks muted at this stage, and only use them for an otherwise instrumental *third* verse.

When you're done with the passes necessary to create the verses, you mix the choruses, choosing your selection of active overdubs for each of those passes equally carefully. And then you splice the different passes together in the order you want to build the song, adding any other sections (such as a bridge or tag) at this stage too.

That's a valid way to make a record, and many people started doing that as a matter of course in the 1970s and 80s; making complete songs from little fragments of songs with different selections of overdubs. Remixing was originally all about doing that; splicing longer versions of existing tunes together from different sections of the song with added or subtracted overdubs, in the days before digital recording made it easy to completely deconstruct songs and reassemble them in a TOTALLY different form.

So here Brian was *really* ahead of his time, production-wise. The problem is: if you don't leave careful notes about precisely which overdubs you plan to include or omit in each part of the song, and the section mixdowns you've made go missing or are junked, and you never complete a master edit of the whole thing, and ALSO, in the meantime, with the passage of years and an AWFUL lot of depression and drugs, you FORGET which overdubs were going to be included on which section, then it's VERY hard to work out afterwards how the completed, edited song was going to sound. Or indeed, which order the pieces were going to be included in. And, therefore, it's hard to mix something years later which is sure to conform to your original intentions for the track, even if you have the multitrack, which it seems are still around for most of the Vega-Tables sessions.

And as I understand it, that's pretty much the situation with Vega-Tables, although I'd love to be corrected if that's wrong. In fact, as I understand it, it's EVEN MORE complicated than that, because there AREN'T merely multitrack mix sections for the verse and chorus of Vega-Tables, there are all sorts of sections, which, as with Heroes and Villains, MAY all have been intended to have been included by Brian in the finished Vega-Tables track. But it's also possible that some of them are re-records because he wasn't happy with the earlier versions, and that they weren't all supposed to be in one version together. So, for example, there are fast and slow versions of the 'Do A Lot' sections, differently arranged. Some are piano driven and quite fast (like the one that ended up in between the verses on the box set mix) with Beach Boys group vocals. Some are xylophone-driven and fast. And one is organ-driven and slow (the one that has the Beach Boys chanting 'de ulla, de ulla' and 'row, row row row' which was featured near the end of the '93 box set mix, before the crossfade, of which more in a moment).

There's also the slow, beautiful close harmony section used to close Vega-Tables in BW's 2004 SMiLE, and used in the Smiley Smile version ('I know that you'll feel better…'). Where was THAT supposed to go? And finally, just to complete the picture of total confusion, there's that utterly fantastic piece of music (for me, it's fully the equal in stature to the tag to Cabin Essence) that is supposedly identified as the 'Tag' to 'Vegetables', which can be heard in full on the SOT discs. Well, at least the 'tag' descriptor makes it FAIRLY certain that it was supposed to go at the END of the song. But how? I've never heard a version or fan edit of Vegetables that satisfactorily attaches the 'tag' to the rest of the song. Mark Linett crossfaded it on for the mix on the 1993 box set, and we know that wouldn't have been the plan in 1966-7, because crossfades weren't the done thing back then (except maybe for The Elements, according to AGD).

And there may have been yet more sections. I seem to recall Mark Linett saying on a message board once that the version of Vega-Tables on the 1993 box set was mixed from tapes that had mostly resulted from just one day's recording. We know that there were several 'patches' of sessions for Vega-Tables, although some of them may have been for what we would now call the Smiley Smile version of the song. How many other sections, or versions of sections, for Vega-Tables were there, exactly? We may not have heard all of the pieces. There don't seem to be any documented sessions for the early 'cornucopia' version of the song for example; I thought the rumour was that that version dates back to 1966. If that's true, what else was recorded at THOSE sessions?

In short, mixing *A* version of Vegetables is possible, and many people have (including the '93 GV box set version we all know well, and numerous fan edits), but it seems to me that it's one of the tracks where the originally intended structure is possibly the most obscure: the exact arrangement of the vocals and other overdubs on each verse, the choice of the different 'Do A Lot' sections, the exact nature of the connection to the 'tag' section, and the placement of the beautiful close-harmony section (if it was due to be in a SMiLE version at all, that is).

Actually, this confused situation is also true of Wind Chimes for exactly the same kind of reasons (should the bridge from the early Wind Chimes session ('Take 5') be included, as in the 2004 version? Was the 'whispering winds' section, also included in the 2004 version and Smiley Smile, ever going to be part of the SMiLE version of Wind Chimes, or was that not recorded until the Smiley Smile sessions…? Again, I could go on…). However, the higher number of alternate sections and the quantity of optional overdubs *on* the different sections for Vega-Tables makes it much harder to figure out Brian Wilson's intentions for this track 44 years later, I think.

UNLESS, of course, the vault hunt of recent years has unearthed copious session notes about the original intentions for Vega-Tables (unlikely - Brian doesn't seem to have been very good at making those kinds of notes, during SMiLE… or ever!), or (perhaps less unlikely) if the hunt has unearthed further edited versions that were mixed back in 1967. Then we might know more.

Write-in item(s):

• Clarification on whether any of the non-Smiley Smile, upbeat 'long round' repeating versions of 'With Me Tonight' were ever intended for SMiLE. Or whether those versions were even recorded during the SMiLE timeframe, or later, say in June 1967, for Smiley Smile. I'd love to know, actually, if the opening section of the Smiley Smile version of 'With Me Tonight' (up to and including Arnie Geller's 'Gooooooooood!!!!!') was actually from a SMiLE session. I've heard (as I'm sure many of you have…) a boot of endlessly repeated attempts to get this bit right where Brian seems VERY concerned with not blowing the harmonies, and given what he later let pass on the laughing, 'refreshed' opening of Smiley's 'Little Pad', it seems to me more likely that this dates to SMiLE than Smiley.

• '66-7-vintage edits or trial mixes of the following tracks, which help to throw light on what the intended structures might have been for these numbers:

(a Vega-Tables

(b Wind Chimes

(c I Wanna Be Around/Workshop

The internal structure of the last of these is fairly unambiguous, but what was it supposed to go *with*? It would be easy to find a home for 'Workshop' as a tag on something, and dismiss IWBA as a short cover that wasn't going to make the final cut — except that the two were *definitely* edited together in 1966. The assembly, which was retained on the 2004 SMiLE, makes placement much more unwieldy and difficult. And then, of course, there's that bloody session sheet which suggests that it was in some way part of 'I'm In Great Shape'. Was it, or wasn't it, and if so, how? It would be LOVELY to lay that issue to rest. Who knows if we'll be able to do that, though.

In fact, I will be very surprised if the box set answers many of these questions, let alone all of them. I think there's going to be an awful lot that doesn't tie up neatly, unfortunately. Maybe SMiLE is destined to remain an unknowable Zen koan after all…

MattB

The list that Catbirdman has put together of ideal 'wants' for the SMiLE box set is amazing - I can't remember seeing such a powerful set of all the stuff I've wondered about regarding SMiLE over the years, all in one place like this before.

That list is too damned good to be wasted on a mere game (though the game is fun too: you'll notice that I've added my two cents in the other thread). So, although I've replied there, I'm starting another thread here for questions, answers and speculation about the material mentioned on that very list, Q&A that don't fit into the framework of the speculative game on the other thread. I have a ton of things I'd love to know about the material on that list, and some pet theories I'd like to get off my chest.

Virtually ALL of the following is pure speculation on my part. I'd love to have solid evidence for some of it… but I don't.

1.   Acetate/mix from May 11 session for Heroes and Villains

This was supposedly erased, I thought, although I wonder if the version of False Barnyard with Mike singing 'When skies are blue' faintly was mixed from that version before the multitrack was zapped. Wasn't there supposed to be a version of H&V with You Are My Sunshine lyrics? Didn't Cam Mott find that out years ago? Anyway, I've always assumed since then it came from the tape of the May 11 'wild' version of H&V. Anyone know differently?

2.   Previously unheard sections from Good Vibrations

Surely, there CAN'T be any more. Unless it's a stack o'vocals mix cleverly processed out of the mono master mix? I think with the SOT volume dedicated to this, and all the bits that have come out on the GV box, Hawthorne CA, the CD single of a few years back, etc, we've heard everything we're ever gonna hear of this one. Not that primo-quality, mastered versions of the key session excerpts and master takes wouldn't go amiss, mind…!

3.   Wind Chimes mix referred to by Michael Vosse

My personal theory: we've already heard this, or something very like it, already. My guess is that it's either the early version similar to that heard on SOT (Take 5, is it?), or a version derived from the same tape as the '93 box set mix, but possibly mixed differently to give more prominence to the tinkling pianos. Add a bit of '67-era Mary-Jane-heightened awareness in the listener, and that's Vosse's Wind Chimes mix, I'd guess.

4.   Vocals for Look/I Ran (Oct 13): I think these were never recorded onto the Look tape; that's my pet theory. I think maybe Brian wrote a vocal section for this, but then co-opted it into Good Vibrations to finish that off ('na na-na-na-na, na-na-na' - you know what I mean). Maybe the clarinets were recorded at this session and then later erased, the ones that Darian heard and restored years later for the 2004 SMiLE. Sheer guesswork on my part, though.

5.   Wonderful with lead vocal and yodeling bvs

I think maybe these vocals were all on the multitrack at different times, but maybe the yodelling vocals were erased when the lead and more 'finished' backing vocals were recorded (the ones you hear in the box set mono mix). My theory is that the yodelling vocals were an early try-out for the BVs, and Brian ditched them later (but created the mix *with* the yodels while they were still on the multitrack, which is how we've heard it).

I reckon we could easily get a mix that incorporates both lead and yodels on the box: I suspect that a mix featuring both would be fairly easy to recreate with today's tech. The yodelling was incorporated into the backing vocals on BW's 2004 version of SMiLE, and it worked quite well, so I think we might well see this done for the new box set. But whether such a mix would be historically accurate is another matter…! Of course, this is all guesswork, so perhaps the yodelling and lead vocals DID belong together in 1966. We may never know…

6.   Cabin Essence previously unheard instrumental section

I'd be surprised to hear anything like this. I reckon it was a session sheet error (there have been plenty, let's face it), and that what we THINK was recorded as Cabin Essence material at that session was actually something else. After all, the incomplete test mixes of Cabin Essence that we hear on boots (the ones that came from acetate, and lack a lead vocal) don't feature any unknown sections. So I bet the fabled Cabin Essence section was ACTUALLY for something else. Or else, the session didn't produce anything useful, and Brian ditched it.

7.   Cabin Essence “reconnected telephone” vocals
Again, pure speculation (like everything I've written so far…)… but I reckon these were supposed to go over the middle verse, and then Van Dyke came up with the 'Truck Driving Man' lyrics for Dennis to sing instead, leaving these unused.

8.   Child Is Father Of The Man previously unheard vocals (leads and/or bvs)

There have been persistent rumours that these may have existed: but I reckon if they did, they're long gone as recordings. I have this feeling that these could be parts Brian recorded and erased, either with a view to re-doing them later (which he then never got around to) or because he was unhappy with them for some reason.

9.   Child Is Father Of The Man previously unknown lyrics (could be audio, could be just documented lyrics)

Again, rumours have abounded for years that Van Dyke *did* write '66-vintage lyrics for this number (and that they're NOT the lyrics added to this section in 2004). Maybe we'll see a sheet of old lyrics, but I'll bet there's no surviving recording.

10.   I’m In Great Shape vocals

I bet these existed (there were vocal sessions, if I remember rightly, weirdly done *before* the backing track sessions, wasn't it…? Someone help me out here…)… but I bet they've gone from the multitrack. In fact, wasn't IIGS one of the tapes where the vault has a session tape, and then the final (presumably master) take has been snipped off the reel? Or am I getting confused again?

Anyway, whatever: I reckon that unless an acetate test mix was done of these and it's somehow survived, I bet the vocals and master take are probably gone for good.

11.   Significant clues/documentation into the overall structure of I’m In Great Shape

As per 10 above: unless a test mix has survived on an acetate, maybe as a part of a longer H&V mix when IIGS was part of that (Durrie Parks, I'm looking at you!), I bet there's not going to be many clues to this.

12.   Vintage lead vocal for Do You Like Worms

I don't feel hopeful about the possibility of these. I bet these were sessions like Cabin Essence, where lyrics were written, and significant work was done on tracking and BVs, but a finalised lead was never recorded. Unless, again, an early or scratch lead vocal was mixed to acetate, deleted from the multitrack, and the acetate has survived somewhere over the years. Al and Bruce had '…Worms' acetates, though, didn't they…? So maybe, just maybe…

13.   An altogether different recording under the title Do You Like Worms

I'm guessing this stems from Al's comment that the track that was included on the 1993 GV box set as 'Do You Like Worms?'… WASN'T 'Do You You Like Worms?' as HE remembered it. I'm gonna say that I think Al was probably just confused here. But in some ways, it would be lovely to be proven wrong… What if what we've known for years as DYLW was, in fact, ALWAYS called 'Roll Plymouth Rock' …and DYLW is, in fact, something else ALTOGETHER? After all, 'Roll Plymouth Rock' wasn't a 2004 invention - didn't Bruce refer to it by that name in 1978? Or as 'Plymouth Rock', at least?

14.   Any previously unheard spoken recordings/skits

I bet there are more of these, but I can't say I'm terribly excited to hear them if there are. The ones we have heard aren't terribly funny, and would have (being majorly charitable here) needed A LOT of editing to make them worth listening to repeatedly. Even the Vegetables argument, where Hal Blaine's improv humour is occasionally funny, would need to be shredded to a fraction of its length to keep the humour going. Too often, the laughs peter out, or (as with many of the other skits) are just never there in the first place.

According to the forum, my full post is too long, scarily! So I'll split it here...

MattB

I've made more detailed comments about each item on this list in the separate thread 'Catbirdman's List: Questions, Answers, Speculation'. But here are my one-word answers.

Which of the following “new” material will be included on The Smile Sessions?

1.   Acetate/mix from May 11 session for Heroes and Villains: NO

2.   Previously unheard sections from Good Vibrations: NO (unless it's a vocal-only mix)

3.   Wind Chimes mix referred to by Michael Vosse: NO (I think we've heard it already, though possibly in a different mix that doesn't accentuate the pianos in the way he described)

4.   Vocals for Look/I Ran (Oct 13): NO

5.   Wonderful with lead vocal and yodeling bvs: YES (because today, it would be easy to create that composite mix)

6.   Cabin Essence previously unheard instrumental section: NO

7.   Cabin Essence “reconnected telephone” vocals: NO (other than as a print of an original lyric sheet: that might happen, maybe)

8.   Child Is Father Of The Man previously unheard vocals (leads and/or bvs): NO

9.   Child Is Father Of The Man previously unknown lyrics (could be audio, could be just documented lyrics): YES (printed or hand-written lyrics only, though, I reckon, at best)

10.   I’m In Great Shape vocals: NO

11.   Significant clues/documentation into the overall structure of I’m In Great Shape: NO

12.   Vintage lead vocal for Do You Like Worms: NO

13.   An altogether different recording under the title Do You Like Worms: NO

14.   Any previously unheard spoken recordings/skits: NO

15.   Vintage lead vocal for Barnyard: YES

16.   Acetate/mix from fall 1966 version of Heroes and Villains: NO

17.   Previously unheard instrumental section from Surf’s Up: NO

18.   The Nov 29 recording “Jazz”: YES (but I bet it isn't SMiLE-related)

19.   Previously unheard piece pertaining to the Elements: NO

20.   Significant new clues/documentation into what comprised the air element (for bonus point, speculate on specifics of what that element turns out to be): I'll go out on a limb here and say YES, and furthermore, speculate that it's the 'tuned percussion' versions of what we knew as 'H&V Intro' on the GV box set. Because… er… oh, look, I REALLY don't know, OK? But… they've got whistles in. Apart from that… I got nothing, I tells ya!

21.   Significant new clues/documentation into what comprised the earth element (for bonus point, speculate on specifics of what that element turns out to be): YES. And I think it was Vega-Tables. (see the other Catbirdman speculation thread for more on why I think this).

22.   Significant new clues/documentation into what comprised the water element (for bonus point, speculate on specifics of what that element turns out to be): YES (and I think it was the Water chant, with nothing else attached. Certainly NOT what we got titled 'I Love To Say Dada' on the '93 GV box set).

23.   Vocal parts for Old Master Painter and/or You Are My Sunshine: YES. Dennis's YAMS vocal exists, so we'll get that, at least. Hopefully in better quality than we have it at the moment.

24.   Excerpts from “Ball and Mitt” (Dec 15): NO (but only because I have NO IDEA what this is…!)

25.   Previously unheard section(s) from Heroes and Villains (for bonus points, speculate on specific sections): Oh, what the hey, YES. I'll go for a bar brawl.

26.   Acetate/mix from 1967 version of Heroes and Villains: YES. Probably just the Feb '67 cantina version, though.

27.   Dennis Wilson’s “I Don’t Know”: YES

28.   Jasper Dailey recording(s): YES (though they are allegedly excruciating)

29.   Previously unheard material from Carl’s “Tones”: YES

30.   Previously unheard material from the April Vega-Tables sessions: YES

Write-in item(s):

SMiLE versions of With Me Tonight, plus session documentation to prove that they date from SMiLE sessions, not Smiley Smile ones.

'66-7-vintage edits or trial mixes of:

(a Vega-Tables

and

(b Wind Chimes

(c I Wanna Be Around/Workshop

which tell us more about how THOSE tracks might have been structured. For more on why I think that's so hard to figure out, see the 'Catbirdman's List: Questions, Answers, Speculation' thread.

One good deed deserves another, they say. And so, Catbirdman, in exchange for your utterly SPLENDID list of SMiLE material you'd like to see in the 'Game Of Speculation' thread, I give you: Gallifrey Base.

That list of yours prompted me to write a whole bunch of SMiLE-related questions down in one place which I've never collected together in one place before. I will be posting it in the next few minutes under the title 'Catbirdman's List: Questions, Answers, Speculation'. For making me do that, the link to Gallifrey Base is the very least I can offer in return.

MattB

Maybe it's just me seeing connections that aren't there (as the 8th Doctor once said), but it seems to me that the Russell T Davies/Darian Sahanaja comparisons just go on and on.

Before Doctor Who was brought back on TV in 2005 (a revival that began with the assembling of a creative team in 2003), many fans were of the opinion that it would be impossible to resurrect the show as the mainstay of mainstream UK Saturday night TV viewing that it was in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. Plenty thought it would be necessary to utterly relaunch the show for the 21st century, radically overhaul the central concept, make it darker, more adult, more sci-fi or more comedic (depending on who you talked to). So many people were talking about rebooting the show, making the story start all over again, creating a parallel version of Doctor Who that didn't follow on from the original story.

Then Russell T Davies came along, ignored all of these opinions, and set about creating a new version of Doctor Who for a new millennium. Whilst his version was clearly crafted to work as a modern TV programme, and not as a show with the pace of a 60s relic, it was clearly the same old show (except to a small group of diehards, who insisted that he had corrupted the beauty of the original concept). Within weeks, the show was a massive hit with schoolkids everywhere, AND it managed to appeal to adults all over again as well (a position that continues unaltered to this day). And all while preserving the major elements of the old story. The diehards still talk about 'Classic Who' and 'NuWho', and treat them as separate animals, but the official position has always been that the post-2005 stories continue the story of the same central character as graced our TV screens from 1963 to 1989. A host of cleverly woven continuity references connect the show from 1963-1989 and the revival from 2005 onwards, and there was no reboot, no major reworking. Just solid time-travel goodness.

Seeing any parallels here? Well, in case you aren't...

Before a finished version of SMiLE was released in 2004 (a revival that began with the assembling of a creative team to work on it in late 2003), many fans were of the opinion that it would be impossible to resurrect the project in anything like the form it might have taken in the late 60s. Over the years, there had been many who thought that it would be necessary to rework the original material, make it more relevant to modern audiences, add modern production touches, or have the aging Beach Boys add new overdubs to the original recordings to revive the work.

Then Brian Wilson returned to SMiLE, and with the aid of his original collaborator Van Dyke Parks, and the invaluable assistance of long-term SMiLE fan Darian Sahanaja, they ignored all of these opinions, and set about creating a coherent version of SMiLE for the new millennium. Whilst their version was initially crafted merely for live performance as a coherent whole, and did not use the actual 60s recordings, the Brian Wilson band worked incredibly hard under Darian's guidance to reproduce the original musical arrangements, production, and feel. It was clearly the same music (except to a small group of diehards, who insisted that Darian had created his own fanmix of SMiLE, and corrupted the beauty of the original concept). Within weeks, the show was a massive live hit, playing to sold-out arenas all over Europe, and when the same arrangement was released as a studio recording later in 2004, it was by far Brian's most successful solo recording (a position it occupies unaltered to this day). And all while preserving the major elements and arrangements of the older recordings. The diehards still talk about 'the '67 SMiLE' and 'BWPS', and treat them as separate animals, but the official position has always been that the 2004 release was a completion of the original concept by its original creators. A host of cleverly woven links knitted the music from 1967 together, but there was no remixing, and no 21st-century overdubs on 1967 material. Just solid Brian Wilson musical goodness.

...OK, so my tongue is FIRMLY in my cheek here, and of course, there are plenty of aspects of the above scenarios that don't stack up or parallel each other at all closely. But it was fun to write...

...and I continue to love ALL versions and eras of Doctor Who, from 1963 to 1989, and from 2005 onwards. Just like I love all eras of SMiLE recordings, from 1966-67, 1968, 1971 and 2004. It is, quite literally, 'all good'.

MattB

As I said on the other thread... great to have a date at last. **IF** this is true, of course!

Could we perhaps move speculation about the set and its contents to THIS thread, and leave all the drug chat in the other thread? Not to be prissy about it, because I'm passingly familiar with the concept of an altered state myself... but I'd really like to talk about the contents of the SMiLE Sessions box set in a thread somewhere. And not have it keep getting mixed up with drugs (as it were).

For those that argue that one and t'other topic are inseparable, I see where you're coming from, and I have some sympathy with that point of view. But I'm not trying to stop that discussion. You can carry right on discussing it in the other thread as before.

Whatch'all reckon?

MattB

This is big. *IF* it's true, that is, and not just someone on that board taking echoes from here and reflecting it back at us, distorted by the Chinese Whisper effect.

Wholly holy cow. The SMiLE Sessions are going to be released three weeks before my 40th!!!

I'm real sorry there's a whole bunch of people who never got to see this: überfans like Greg Larson and the Reverend Bob who would have rejoiced to see July 12th. They hung in there for so many years, and missed it only by a short while. It doesn't seem fair when there were people waiting since 1966 for this day. I've only been interested since 1995; that's nothing in comparison.

Still, what can you do? Drive carefully and avoid falling meteors until July 12th, that's what!

MattB

Yeah, what I'm saying is, if Brian recorded the 'three score and five' verse of H&V onto an H&V multitrack tape, then mixed that down to mono, then you'd have a mono mix with the three score and five vocals in. But if he then deleted those vocals from the multitrack, possibly replacing them (say) with the 'stand or fall, I know there shall be peace in the valley' vocals, then THE ONLY place you'd have 'three score and five' would be in that old mono mix. You'd never be able to create a new mix with that vocal performance of the 'three score and five' verse again.

If I remember rightly, that's EXACTLY the situation we have with H&V. The 'three score and five...' vocals are gone from the multitrack, but they still exist in the 'Cantina' mix that Brian made in, um... February 1967, was it? The one that's on the end of the Smiley Smile twofer.

But imagine the Feb '67 Cantina mix had subsequently been lost, or itself erased. Then all we'd have was a multitrack with different vocals, and no sign of the 'three score and five' verse. But that wouldn't mean they were never recorded... see?

Or, perhaps more pertinently to the discussion we were having here, imagine the Cantina mix had never been found by Mark Linett and released on the Smiley twofer, and was only in the hands of an arch-collector. And imagine that said arch-collector kept putting hints into circulation among the BB fan community about a version of H&V with a 'lost' verse. Alan Boyd and Mark Linett might scrutinise the surviving multitracks, and conclude that the 'three score and five' verse never existed, or that if it was written, it had never been recorded. But the arch-collector would know differently.

So now imagine that THAT is the situation with - oh, I don't know, take your pick from the world of SMiLE lore. Child Is Father Of The Man with verse vocals? Look with vocals? Barnyard with vocals? Maybe said vocals were recorded, mixed down, then the mix made its way into the hands of a hardcore BB collector, and in the meantime, the vocals were erased from the multitrack by Brian, either maliciously, or with a view to re-recording the vocals one day, but that never happened. Then you'd have what we've got now... a multitrack tape in the vault with no vocals, and no sign that any were ever recorded. EVEN IF these vocals were actually out there in the hands of some collectors, in mono or reference mixes made before the deletions from the multitrack.

Everyone still following me...? If so, you'll see how something could have been recorded, and still exist in a mix somewhere, even if the tapes in the vault don't feature it any more... And this, of course, is why some people go crazy over the idea of the Durrie Parks acetates, because they think those acetates might contain old reference mono mixes made with earlier vocals or overdubs that were subsequently erased from the multitracks. I hope so too, but I'm VERY prepared to find out that they contain the same old stuff we've all been listening to for years! If we even get to find that out at all, of course.

MattB

PS It should go without saying - but I'll say it anyway - that I have no inside knowledge of any 66-vintage multitracked CIFOTM verse or Barnyard vocals. I live on the wrong continent to where SMiLE was recorded, and wasn't even born until over four years after Brian gave up on SMiLE. I wish I knew more, but I don't.

PPS And Mikie, to answer your final question - I'm not sure if the BB's tape archive has a multitrack recording of the Cantina section. Maybe not. So that might be another section that only exists in the Feb 67 mono mix.

Hey hypehat, you say it's not like Brian to erase things maliciously... but he definitely did. Didn't Steven Desper say that he erased more Brian Wilson lead vocals than ever made it to finshed product, or something like that? And think of all the alternate vocals that don't survive on multitracks today: the 'at three score and five' verse of H&V, the aforementioned Mike bridge vocals to Wouldn't It Be Nice and the first line of the tag to God Only Knows. And there are alternate split Mike/Brian verse vocals for an early version of H&V on the SOT discs, aren't there? They didn't make it to release either.

Of course, if you were trying to replace something that was already recorded in the 60s, you USUALLY had to erase it to fit the new part on the multitrack. Even with eight-track tape, which Brian didn't get until 1965, there weren't enough tracks to keep (say) old unsatisfactory vocal attempts and record new ones; you had to overwrite the old ones. Nowadays, with gazillions of tracks and virtual tracks to record on, we forget that. So it wasn't just malice - there were good reasons to trash overdubs from the multitrack permanently if you wanted to record new ones.

Point is, Brian sure did record over stuff. No doubt about it. And it wasn't an accident.

MattB

How many Whovians have we got in here exactly? I'm happy to stick my hand up and say I'm an (infrequent) poster on Gallifrey Base, as I am here, and I've been a fan of the good Doctor since the mid-70s. I seem to remember Jon Hunt was a Doctor Who fan, back in the SMiLE Shop days, too...

2004 was an awesome year. Brian released SMiLE, and the Doctor Who revival started shooting! And am I the only person to see strong links between Russell T Davies (who revived Doctor Who for its 2005 re-launch) and Darian (who helped to bring the 2004 SMiLE to fruition)? Both long-term fans since they were young, who then ended up creating new versions of their former teenage obsessions.

So the question is: does that make Mark Linett Steven Moffat? OK: now I *AM* kidding...

MattB

Andrew, I'm always mindful of confusing what we definitely KNOW with what we'd LIKE to be true, as you are... but surely it is fair game to say that SMiLE MIGHT have been in a more complete state in January 1967, or May 1967, than it is on the surviving tapes today? Brian did say many times over a long period that 'he junked the tapes', and whilst he clearly DIDN'T, as Mark Linett and Alan Boyd have been working from said tapes this year, it is surely a workable possibility that Brian erased some tracks from the multitracks after failing to finish SMiLE?

This would still be consistent with the documented findings of everyone whose looked at the tapes since 1967 (Carl in 1971, Bruce in 1978, Mark Linett from 1987 onwards, etc) - that there are a lot of missing vocals. But it doesn't mean they were ALWAYS missing, right?

We know Brian did this on *some* tapes, I thought... Dennis's Old Master Painter vocal isn't on any surviving multis, if memory serves me right... and yet there ARE multitracks for that song, but they just have the backing track on them. Or am I getting confused again?

Wasn't the idea therefore that Brian might have recorded Dennis's vocals, done a mix for acetate of The Old Master Painter (which is where the mono version with the Dennis vocal comes from), and then erased the vocal from the multi? Thus leaving the acetate as the only place where those vocals exist? That would leave a multitrack for Carl and Bruce and Mark Linett to find that answered to the description 'doesn't have vocals' - and yet there WERE some, once...

Plus there's the deleted clarinets in 'Look/Song For Children', which Darian restored for the 2004 SMiLE... they were only audible in headphone bleed on the multitrack, but they must have been there once...

And then there's Brian's absolutely definitely documented examples of erasing things prior to this, during the recording of Summer Days and Pet Sounds. The SOT tapes show backing tracks for 'Do You Wanna Dance' with a different guitar solo that was later re-done at the mix to produce the ones on the master, and on the finished album. And there are all those one-time-only, done-at-the-mix overdubs for the version of Help Me Rhonda that was released on the Endless Harmony soundtrack. And there's Mike's lead vocal on the bridge of Wouldn't It Be Nice, and the vocals on the opening line of the tag of God Only Knows that are only on the mono mix (if I remember rightly, Carl's vocals on the opening of the tag on the stereo mix are so much 'softer'... because that's all that's left on the multitrack to mix from now, and not the slightly more forceful vocal that opens the tag on the mono mix).

Admittedly, in the latter two cases, the Mike vocals and the GOK tag opening line aren't on the multitrack now because Brian *replaced* them with something else, unlike in SMiLE, where it would appear he erased at least some things and *never* replaced them. But isn't that part and parcel of SMiLE being unfinished in 1967? Maybe he erased earlier attempts at the vocals, intending to replace them with later attempts, but never made the later attempts. Or maybe he didn't like the vocals and erased them to make it impossible for the band to finish SMiLE (although if so, there are many SMiLE vocals he left in situ that are still on the multis today, so he didn't make much of a job of that plan if that was his intention).

I admit, all of this fails 'the Doe test': it's great speculation, but there is not a shred of evidence for it, so it ought to be discounted from serious consideration.

But I felt it was worth pointing out that there is, at least, a way in which things could have happened that would result in everyone who has listened to the tapes post-1967 thinking 'there are a lot of missing vocals'. EVEN IF vocals were recorded once. And it's consistent with Brian's documented mid-to-late-60s working methods.

And if my uncle were 'differently configured', she'd be my aunt. I know, I know...

MattB

What flavour's the cookie, Billy? 'Cos that is none other than one of Basildon's finest, Dave Gahan, singing 'Enjoy The Silence'.

Ah yes. I don't *just* do amazing baroque-tinged wall-of-sound sunshine pop, y'know. I likes me a bit of icy northern European electro-house, too - and the more piercingly you can sense the chilly wind off the North Sea, and smell the stained, cracked concrete of the decaying New Town high-rise, the better. Plus I grew up about 10 miles from Basildon, so the 'Mode were like local heroes to me...!

I'm hoping for a bit of cherry and oatmeal halva bake, to be honest...  

MattB

Thanks Andrew. I did know about it being an internal sales promo at one point, but like I said above, you know you've known a lot about a subject when you've forgotten more than you still know - if that sentence can *possibly* make any sense! Wasn't that why you did your web site - to keep all of this stuff in a location whence it was harder to be forgotten than unreliable organic grey matter?

Anyway, what I should have said was... there do seem to be people on here who would have been old enough to hear that announcement — if, of course, they'd been in the right place at the right time (ie. on Capitol's sales team).

Although, as far as I know, the famous (and, of course, absolutely NON-imaginary) Dick Reising has never actually signed up here...

I should have had MY tea before attempting such conjectural subjunctive intentionals (memorably summarised by my grammar tutor as 'woulda coulda shouldas'), too.

Anyway, back to the usual programme of SMiLE guesswork and misinformed speculation. What IS this CD or set - IF it eventually exists - going to have on it?

MattB

Fishmonk wrote:

>I kind of envy you old-timers, building up anticipation over decades.

Hey, I always feel like a newcomer here. I mean, I only got interested in Brian and the Beach Boys as a result of the Don Was 'I Just Wasn't Made For These Times' documentary. Before that, I knew ZIP about SMiLE.

And then I check the calendar, and I realise that film was nearly FIFTEEN YEARS ago. How'd that happen? 

But I expect everyone feels that way. Even some of the guys here who could have heard the original 'we're sure to sell a million units...' message when it was fresh and new!

I still think Brian's SMiLE, live AND recorded, was amazing. I could not be-LIEVE some of the people around and about who moaned about pianos and digital recording destroying the music. The original 66-67 music is amazing. The 2004 recordings and arrangements are, in my opinion, amazing too (because IT'S THE SAME MUSIC, lovingly arranged and recreated by the original artists and a group of people who worked VERY hard to make it as close as humanly possible to the original, 37 years on). So why not embrace both? You'll have a much nicer time...!

Enough of that, though, as that argument has been done to death...!

Mr GF2002 (is it Craig, I forget...?) and juggler, thanks for your words about the posting on February 20th, 2004. It was a blast, but only because the people here were such fun to discuss the concert with! Regarding the False Barnyard re-record session... didn't Bicycle Rider say upthread that he HAD heard (but did not possess) the COMPLETE session, as opposed to just the between-takes chat that we have heard at some point on our long journeys through this music?

MattB

Mr Doe wrote:

>The 2 Jo(h)ns do know, and are content.

Thanks Andrew, good to know! And *I* dug the recent River Song reference, though I'll draw the line at calling anyone 'sweetie'... [EDIT: oh, sorry, that was Wee Helper making with the River Song references, not you. D'oh!]

Some people have expressed surprise that there are still unbooted SMiLE sessions. I don't think that has been seriously in doubt for years. The question is whether those sessions are available to Messrs Boyd and Linett so that they could potentially now be released officially, or whether they're *only* still in the hands of the shadowy 'collectors'!

Off the top of my head, I seem to remember Mark Linett saying, way, way back in the 90s on one of these boards (or I *think* it was - but it's a sure sign that you know far too much about a subject when you've forgotten more about it than you can still remember...!) that the mix of Vega-Tables on the 93 GV box set just came from tapes representing just *one* day's work on the song. I always took that to mean that there were tapes of other days' work on the song that weren't used to produce that mix, and that Mark had heard those but decided not to use them to produce the box set mix.

Although, of course, Mark never ACTUALLY said that, so I'm guilty of extrapolating information when it may not be correct to do so. And everyone interested in SMiLE has done that at one time or another, right?

There are loads of other things that we know must be out there, though. Bicycle Rider has already alluded to the actual takes of the remade False Barnyard. Years ago, I heard a tape (a cassette, not a reel) with just the between-takes chatter of that session (the takes themselves had been edited out), and as BR says, the full sessions must be 'out there'. The full 20-odd recorded take history of IIGS has also been mentioned on this thread, but as far as I know, that isn't circulating. (Not that I'd know if it was, before you ask - I've *never* been in any kind of 'inner circle' of traders, and, to be honest, preferred to stay that way, and clear of all the crazy politics! Just a man reading and writing stuff occasionally).

So the stuff is out there... but whether it will be released in the near future is as moot as ever, I would have thought...!

MattB

I only log into this board occasionally these days... and look what I missed since I was last here at the end of January! Bloomin' Typical...

Having also frequented various BB Internet boards over the last 16 years - including the original Cabinessence board, the Green Board, the blue 'American Band' board, and the various overlapping versions of the Smile Shop - I am amazed at this news, and also quite heartened to see some of the old names back. Mr Roger Ryan, Mr Cameron Mott, I think we first discussed SMiLE bootlegs in 1995 on Cabinessence. A pleasure to see you back, good sirs! Although in truth, perhaps you never went away, and it was I that disappeared... although not without writing the odd few interesting things on the way. I have honestly never had so much fun posting on an Internet discussion board as I did when I got home from Brian's '04 SMiLE premiere, and tried to make sense of what I'd just heard and seen on-line with everyone asking questions. And the same sense of fun pervaded everything I wrote subsequently...

I really hope Johns Hunt and Lane know about this, and that it makes them happy.

Whatever we eventually get from Capitol, and whenever we get it, it cannot fail to be interesting. If they merely release the old 88 mixes and edits in decent quality because that's all that can now be found, I will buy it. If there's more - and who really knows whether there will be? - I will buy that too. I don't think anyone who has been interested in this music for so long can really lose with this release. The esteemed Mr Doe is undoubtedly right that there will be disappointments along the way, and there will almost certainly be a vocal group of The Disappointed around here. But I will not be one of them...

...I will be at the door of a large record shop waiting for them to open up when the day comes, ready to buy - well, whatever it turns out to be - and with however much money is needed to buy it burning a hole in my hot, clenched fist. What other music can you say that about?

Wow; we live in interesting times. Again!

MattB

On an ancient message board about ten years ago, I went by the name 'Sheriff John WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH' in homage to precisely that truly incredible part of Sloop John B. I was *amazed* at how such an awesome harmony part had been so comprehensively buried in the original Pet Sounds mono mix.

There's lots of moments like this that never really came to the fore in Brian's mono mixes. The full-length stereo Smiley arrangement of 'Vegetables' on the 'Hawthorne, California' album showed how some of amazing harmony in the acapella section near the end had been mixed so low in the mono version as to be almost inaudible - the stereo mix restored it. And then there's the super-quiet tag to 'Wind Chimes', also on Smiley Smile. And that's just two examples off the top of my head. There are SO many more...

On a slightly different topic, that's one reason I love Smiley Smile, odd as much of it is. You get to actually hear some of those amazing harmonies that were completely lost on the original version of Pet Sounds, because Smiley's arrangements are, on the whole, so much less complex.

How I really, really wish there was a sessions recording for Little Pad out there. Of all the tracks I wanted to hear on SOT, with its gorgeous harmonies, that was one of the mostest. And instead, we got furshenliggen 'Getting Hungry' sessions and NOTHING from Little Pad. That is just... just cruel!

The Heartical Don wrote:

"Will you purchase Pleasure Island then?"

Well, I think I'll probably end up purchasing anything Brian puts out. Even BWRG, which I like rather than love, has the full-on awesome 'Plenty Of Nothing' on it. I find at least one enjoyable thing by him on every album he releases. So I'm probably a given for Pleasure Island, no matter how 'raaaawwwwwk' it turns out to be. Even then, if it's 'raaawwwwkkk' like 'The Waltz' or 'Going Home', I might truly love it.

I too reckon Brian should reinterpret some of his solo stuff with his current band. I mean... their versions of Please Let Me Wonder and California Girls are incredible, and I think a 2010 band version of Love And Mercy, if such a thing existed, would *finally* give us a definitive version of that song. I love my synths and samplers, but the '88 version of L&M has not aged well. The IJWMFTT version is great in terms of its arrangement, but Brian's not vocally as strong as he could be now, I think. So I live in hope for a 2010 band version of that track.

I'd prefer 'live in the studio' to straight live, too. It suits Brian wayyy better vocally, and the band can play or sing it live *or* in the studio, so what's not to love?

But... this is Brian. So we'll probably get a five-year wait and then a disc of Shortening Bread riffs.

By the way, is it possible to conceive of a *worse* name for an album than 'Pleasure Island'? It sounds like a Bulgarian porn film. Oh, wait, yes, it is possible. "Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin": sounds like a committee of rabid marketing consultants dreamt that one up.

MattB

Ultra-d'oh! [smacks head]

I knew it wasn't Kelis, but knew it began with K, so I put that in as a place-holder while writing the post, and then forgot to change it before I posted. All I needed to do was move six feet across the room and look at a CD sleeve... but I didn't. What a div.

However, I too would love to hear what Kelis would do with 'Rainbow Eyes'... even if I suspect I wouldn't like the results...! If anyone has ever heard Meltbanana's cover of Kraftwerk's 'Showroom Dummies', you'll know what I mean. You might not like the results, but you can sort of see that a cover version like that of that tune *needed* to happen. The original is metronomic and teutonically precise, with Ralf Hütter calmly intoning 'we are showroom dummies' at occasional intervals. Meltbanana's version is complete chaos, with the drumming sounding like the kit is falling down the stairs, and the vocal being repeatedly screeched by the diminutive female Japanese vocalist in a manner that suggests she is fighting off a full-on assault by a pack of rabid hyenas at the same time. I don't find it pretty, but it's good that it exists.

In a similarly curious vein, it's odd that a lot of the tracks I do like on GIOMH I like in spite of my usual musical preferences. I'm really not a big fan of traditional 'raaaawwwk' music, and overly 50s-style Rock and Roll or wailing guitars have me reaching for the Eject button faster than you can say 'rock around the clock'. But if there's a good tune powering something along, I tend to forget that. Hence I like 'How Could We Still Be Dancing', particularly the uptempo piano driven breaks. But I rarely listen to that style of music by choice.

The carefully, almost painstakingly designed arrangements from SMiLE, Pet Sounds or Friends, most of which are driven far more by 'pattery' percussion and clever use of instruments that are themselves percussive, but without actually *being* percussion, will always win me over more readily than a heavy rock drums and electric bass rhythm section and a wailing lead guitar, though. For example, consider how much energy there seems to be in the opening verses of 'Heroes And Villains' - and that's just a percussive acoustic guitar, a high-mixed big bass sound (or probably several basses, I'd guess, knowing Brian's preferences in this period), and a lone snare drum, rather than a full drum kit. Now consider 'City Blues'. with its full-on rock 'assault and battery' drums and bass arrangement, and Clapton widdly-widdly-ing over the top. The latter just seems unbearably clumsy and leaden-footed to me by comparison. And actually much *less* powerful and effective for it, too!

Here endeth the daily ramble through Kelis, Clapton, Kraftwerk, Meltbanana and Brian Wilson's SMiLE-era arrangment technique. I really had better do some work today, I guess!

MattB

Whoh there Mr Castillo... I'm not sure I would go as far as listening to GIOMH unedited in one go. I can stand my cut-down mini-album version just fine. But if you're trying to sit through the whole thing 'neat and uncut', as it were, I predict you'll start to tremble around 'Make A Wish', shake seriously by 'Saturday Morning In The City', and crack completely... around the time Brian's voice does in 'Fairy Tale'.

Let us know how it goes, though!

MattB

Although BWRG is an album on which Brian has received lots of props here for his carefully sung vocals, it's a bit ironic that this instrumental is by far and away my favourite track, too. As a whole, I find the album (which I've also only received over the last week) a bit MOR-ish and staid for the most part, and I also seriously wonder who would buy it. It's too Beach Boys for Gershwin fans and most young'uns won't have a clue who Gershwin is anyway.

But this track is just... unashamedly, relentlessly joyous. It's fabulous. It had me by about 15 seconds in.

All that said, props to Brian for doing what *he* feels inspired to do - no-one can seriously doubt the man's love for Gershwin's songcraft - and his vocals *are* bloody good on it, too, even if it blands to infinity for me for much of the time...

MattB

PS Some tracks do bring a smile to my face: Love Is Here To Stay brings to mind Sally from When Harry Met Sally dragging her Christmas tree home through the snow, it's so smooth... I've Got A Crush On You is equally sweet and beautifully sung, and I like the reinventions of It Ain't Necessarily So and Someone To Watch Over Me. And lastly, Nothing But Love is the MOR guilty pleasure I thought I hated at first, but it's working its Wilson magic on me as time has gone on until I've found myself humming it in the shower. But if I'm honest, none of them stir me as much as Plenty O'Nuthin'...

As I've elsewhere today on the the thread about the Waltz, I'm no BW apologist, and don't really cut him slack when I feel he's screwed up, but I find much to like on GIOMH, and think it has had a bum rap.

I can hack a decent EP or CATP-style mini-album out of it, no trouble. I don't have any problem with the indisputable fact that many of the tracks had been sitting around for years before they were finished and released, so that aspect doesn't (and never has) bothered me. What does bother me is the absolutely terrible execution of some of the vocals ('Fairy Tale', I'm looking at you! And also the awfully wonky harmonies on the intro to 'You've Touched Me', which could have been sublime, but instead make me cringe).

How Could We Still Be Dancing belts along. I'm not much of an Elton Fan, but I still think this track rocks. If Brian never makes his much-mooted Rock album, and I have to build my own compilation of existing stuff as a replacement, this one is right on there with a free pass. It also gets a pass to my mini-album cut-down version of GIOMH.

Soul Searching: OK, the vocals could be better — Carl's AND Brian's! — and The Paley Sessions version probably has the edge, particularly in the bridge. But this version is still OK. PASS.

You've Touched Me: Aargh! That intro!!!! Brian sounds like he's YAWNING out the off-key harmonies. But once this gets going, I like it. The outro is, as someone already said on this thread, fab and almost proto-ska in its genius. PASS (if I edit out the intro).

Getting In Over My Head: I quite like this. It's a bit Pet Sounds-by numbers, but it's OK. PASS — just.

City Blues: Clapton has never been my cup of Oolong - indeed I rapidly lose interest when I hear widdly widdly wankfest guitar on anything. There's something going on here in the descending chorus that's interesting, but it can't sustain my interest over the whole track. FAIL.

Desert Drive: So this one mines the BW nostalgia feel again, this time with a 1964-style track rather than 1966 as with the album's title track. That could be irritating, and Brian's vocal performance is pretty duff again. However, the band's harmonies are great, and the backing track rocks along. Like 'It's OK' off 15BO, I give this one a pass for its fun exuberance on an otherwise somewhat patchy album. PASS

A Friend Like You: I found the 'hey look, lots of old rock stars are on this album!!' aspect of GIOMH really wearisome, but most of the time I forget Mr McCartney's even on this. So that aside: I know some find this track wimp-y, or even a bit fey, but it falls the right side of sweet to me - I find it quite touching. PASS

From this point on, the quality control plummets for me. The last half of the album is where I think some of the criticism's of GIOMH are justified.

Make A Wish: Oh, I hate Sweet Insanity - always did, and don't feel any better about it now. This song has a great bridge, but the rest is hippy-dippy schlock through a dirty sock. FAIL.

Rainbow Eyes: I think there *is* a great song in here struggling to get out, but Brian has, in my opinion, never released a version that unlocks it. This sure as heckfire isn't the one. Kelis's version from the Caroline Now! album is better than either of Brian's shots at it, but even that doesn't quite do it for me. FAIL

Saturday Morning In The City: This drives me mad. I really can't stand it. SUPER-FAIL

Fairy Tale: Foot-down-throat awful, this. It's high-twee nonsense, and the vocal performance is beyond unreleasable - and yet it came out! WHHHYYYYYY... ULTRA-FAIL

Don't Let Her Know She's An Angel: I know some people think this is Sweet Insanity's highlight, but I've never cared for it much, and this version is, if anything, worse than the Sweet Insanity version. As with Rainbow Eyes, I think a better version of this song could be done, but maybe not by Brian. FAIL

The Waltz: I can't explain it, but I love this one. It has dodgy Brian vocals in part, wheezes along like a clapped-out 50s rocker with a stick-on Teddy Boy wig, and has pretty cheesy lyrics by Van Dyke Parks. So you'd think I should hate it, but I don't. I think it's great, and don't understand why, but I do in all honesty really like it. I accept, however, that it is an acquired taste, like blue-veined cheese, Japanese blowfish or rotten seaweed! PASS

There you go - a seven-track mini-album version of GIOMH that I would happily listen to without embarrassment. But that's just me...

MattB

Just to add a non-conformist note to this thread... I generally prefer Brian's better vocals, venerate his 'Blue Christmas'-era voice and the SMiLE and Friends era, and rate these way higher generally than material in his post-'Love You'-era voice onwards, whatever apologists might say about his more 'manly' tones from that time. And sure, I can hear that many of the vocals on Getting In Over My Head are seriously sub-par (my pet hates are the wonky harmonies on the intro to You've Touched Me, which could have been lovely but aren't, and well, ALL of Fairy Tale).

But *despite* all of the above, I really, truly, honestly like The Waltz. I think it's great. And that's not out of misplaced love of Van Dyke Parks, either - it's pretty obvious that these are not exactly his most poetic or most beautifully realised lyrics. And yet... I *still* love The Waltz. There is no escaping it. And, it would seem, no accounting for taste. I sort of like it in spite of my general preferences in BW-land.

Weird, huh?

In fact, I gave Getting Way Out Of My Range a spin the other day, and I honestly think some tracks are OK. Not Brian Douglas's masterpieces, but they're OK. I can hack a decent EP out of the album, no problem. For me, The Waltz would be the only survivor from Side 2, though. Throw in the opening track, Soul Searching, the title track, Desert Drive... and the Waltz. Maybe You've Touched Me (minus the bloody awful intro) and A Friend Like You, which I also have an inexplicable weakness for, and you have a CATP-style mini-album!

It's got a bum rap, I tells ya.

MattB