You wouldnt wanna see an reenactment of the beach boys creating "smiley smile","wild honey", "friends"?

I would love to see a well done documentary on the subject.   I just think it would be very challenging to tell the Brian Wilson story in an honest, well rounded manner, particularly that thorny phase of his life as he headed towards an apparent breakdown in the late 60's.  With the right actor and director, and the right script, I guess it would be possible, but I can't think of too many rock bio films that didn't do a disservice to their subjects.  These kinds of films almost always focus more on the psychodrama (often in a sensationalist manner) than they do on the music making anyway. 

I actually hope they show make beach boy movies. :] One that'll show more of dennis's life and brian's struggles and mike's hatred would be just awesome. Especially if they showed a part where they Were in the stages of creating "smiley smile & wild honey".

I don't know.  These kinds of movies almost always distort reality in order to tell their story, presenting more of a two dimensional caricature, IMO.  I'd generally prefer to see a documentary or a fictional film that was only loosely based on reality.  I rather enjoyed the film 'Grace Of My Heart', which was mainly a take on the life of Carol King, though it threw in a bit of the Brian Wilson story (including SMiLE) as well.  This was not even trying to be historically accurate, so they were able to get at the nub of the bigger myth.  Another example of a film that creatively told a non-literal story about a musician's life was 'I'm Not There', which presents different takes on the Bob Dylan story with a wide range of different actors. 

Written by Alan Boyd - his faux Smile track was quite fantastic and authentic-sounding, although the film definitely suffered for it's lack of actual Smile tracks.  That's a whole other thread though...

Really?  I'm relieved that they didn't allow actual SMiLE music to be used in this sad farce.  Watching that clip makes me cringe at the possibility of any future Beach Boys related bio movies.

[what-if-Smile-was-released-in-1967 mix]

Ok, so I set out to make two Smile fanmixes. One is the historical what-if-Smile-was-released-in-1967 mix. It is a very basic mix, in mono, and follows the 12 to 14 individual tracks that don't lead into one another. I am also avoiding any post-June '67 recordings done. So obviously no fly-ins and also no Cabin Essence lead vocals. Anyways, that is that one. My second fanmix is what I am calling my Y.G.F.A.A.Y.? mix. It is a no holds barred mix with no rules. I am using a lot of boot sources and using as much stereo as possible. Echo and panning are in wide use!!

I like your approach, P.J.  I was thinking of doing something similar:  More of a classic, natural 12 track take on the first disc, no fly ins or later sessions (apart from Cabinessence!  The '68 version is absolutely part of the canon for me); maybe you could tack on some of the additional stuff at the end as bonus tracks.  Then I would do more of a BWPS/TSS approximation-style take, except I still think the album needs to end with Surf's Up one way or another (GV works well there in concert, but SU is the ultimate closing statement for SMiLE.).  I'll be curious to hear which version works better for me, but then there are so many viable configurations with this material . . . 

[Surf's Up]

I know what you're saying, but you know what? It doesn't really bother me. All of the versions of this song are beautiful, and I'm happy we have all of them.

And yes, it didn't sound exactly like it may have in 1967, but we have to remember that Brian contributed to and/or okayed all of the versions that are out there, including the Surf's Up version, the BWPS version, and The SMiLE Sessions version. And what I care about, is that the song hits me emotionally, and that the artist seems happy with it. And Brian is happy with all of those, so I won't waste time crying over spilt milk. It's kinda how I feel about SMiLE as a whole; sure, I'd really love it was finished the way Brian saw it at one point in 1966 or 1967, but it wasn't, and I'm happy that he's shared all that he has with us.

I'm with you on this.  It's fascinating to speculate what Brian might have done with the arrangement for Part 2 back then and if the tapes magically emerged tomorrow, I'd get down on my knees and thank Murry, but I'm not holding my breath.  Maybe the sessions went badly or they were actually for something else--we'll likely never know.  At this point, I've grown so accustomed to the stripped down "demo" version from '66, I tend to prefer a more minimalist presentation on Surf's Up anyway.  When the song's that great, you don't need a lot of additional window dressing.

One question that bugs the hell out of me, and which may or may not shed more light on the bigger picture, is that of the Wrecking Crew in effect being shunned. Why did Brian suddenly, almost stop-on-a-dime sudden, decide to radically change everything about the way he was making records and recording his music? Why would he decide to no longer use the Wrecking Crew as abruptly and as definitely as he did? There is no precedent for this. It wasn't even a case of calling some of the guys but not others, it was one day he was Brian in the studio and the next time he recorded everything had changed.

I always thought that this had more to do with the installation of Brian's home studio.  I imagine he got used to more of a laid back, family & friends type of scene at that point, after the more labor intensive Smile sessions with the Wrecking Crew, but I could be totally wrong about that.

That's wild!  I had no idea they were doing this song live at that point.  It's a bit more of a hybrid between the GV Box version and the Smiley version.  Thanks for sharing.

Has anyone heard the recent audio interview with Linnett?  He pretty much straight out states that they knew people were still not going to accept their construction of SMiLE on disc 1, so they intentionally left enough material on that and the other discs so that we all can continue to make our own SMiLE mixes. 

Right, the "roll your own" credo, though he kind of undercuts that when he says something like "You could paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa..."  And they didn't always make it easy to do with the cross fades on Disc 1 or by not always breaking out the clean master take (or in some cases not including them at all, though I know that some have gone missing over the years).

FWIW, though I might quibble with this or that decision, I do accept disc one as "the official version" and think it's pretty damn successful for what it is.  But is it my own ideal SMiLE?  No, I'm still workin' on that one. . .

Way to include the inferior mix of the song on the Joe Public CD, guys.

I like it too, the particularly the "run all around" bit, but it's not as if this is radically different from the Disc 1 version, just a few additional flourishes.  I still think that overall, the new Vega-Tables mix is one of the big triumphs of this set.

My personal opinion on the situation always has been that at some point Brian realized that despite recording all this fantastic music he had somehow lost the plot in being able to have a marketable product to turn into Capitol Records.  I honestly think by the time he was knee deep into SMiLE  he didn't have any idea how to sequence the thing.  I think losing the plot and the possibility of failure wrecked him.  Add to that the drugs, in-fighting, lawsuits, the feeling of being solely responsibility to everyone else and their mother and you'll get an idea about what kind of pressure Brian was under during this time.

Right.  I used to dismiss some of Brian's comments about Smile's demise back in the "it was inappropriate" days, but looking back now, they start to make more sense.  I wish I had the quote handy, but at one point he explained that he just didn't have a strong commercial feel for the Smile material and sometimes you just write a song for yourself, like a little feel you want to explore but maybe it's not right for the general public.  Of course, I absolutely love this stuff and wish that he'd been in a position to let his muse run wild, but I can see how he might have reached this conclusion back then.

Judging by the chronology, I'm totally convinced that "Do A Lot" (on disc 2) was originally conceived as a part of "Great Shape".

This seems very plausible, given the hustle and bustle described ("tumble out of bed. . . eggs & grits and lickety split. . .), that clean, active country living.

This is definitely one of the more perplexing Smile tracks and we'll probably never know precisely what Brian had in mind for it (So many of his ideas were fluid and transitional at that point.).  We know that it was an outgrowth of H&V, maybe an early interlude that was replaced by the Cantina section.  Since H&V is told as a story of an old man looking back on his life, I tend to see this as a recollection of the protagonist's youth and vitality out on the frontier.  This is why, apart from their proximity in the Humble Harve demo, it's tempting to slot it in with Barnyard, which similarly describes day to day activity on the farm (i.e. the cook is chopping lumber to make those eggs & grits). 

But what do people make of a possible IWBA/Workshop connection?  Wasn't that piece at one point labeled with Great Shape in parenthesis?  They were later grouped together on BWPS.  Could the workshop bit signify putting the pieces back together, the restoration of great shape (wholeness) after the heartbreak?  It seems like a stretch but otherwise I'm hard pressed to figure out what he would have done with IIGS as its own track as noted on the list.

I think the role of drugs and mental health as a cause are a red herring, they are issues that may have been significant later but get mistakenly accredited as significant back to this period. When he is making the music, he is mentally organized and disciplined and decisive and on task. Sure he is also superstitious and getting high in his spare time but he is in full control of himself and everyone and thing around him. Nothing kept him from finishing it, he didn't want it finished, it was a Muse and commerciality issue for Brian and not a drug and mental health issue. Imo.

Agree with most of that Cam, but I think the drug use would have started to bring on a sense of paranoia. That wouldn't necessarily affect the quality of Brain's work but he would be becoming more and more anxious to finish it, more and more meticulous about minutia and less able to see the bigger picture.

The commerciality concerns would only add to the pressure.

Eventually he'd perceive it all as a mishmash of brilliantly executed snippets that he couldn't weave together without adding more snippets, and more confusion, to the pile.

Stress, anxiety and paranoia. In extremis, hard to come back from.

I absolutely agree.  The impact of Brian's mental imbalance/drug usage can be seen both in his ADHD whimsy for starting experiments without completing them (i.e. the Elements) and his obsessive tinkering and growing indecisiveness (most notably in the H&V sessions).  Yes, he's still sharp and on top of his game in the studio, but it was clear that by early '67, he couldn't see the forest for the trees anymore.  Why else would he waste valuable studio time re-recording a track like Wonderful, which was already essentially finished?  Add to this tales like the Fire paranoia and cancelling sessions due to bad vibes and even if these were just elaborate rationalizations from an artist who was losing confidence in his vision, it's hard not to conclude that his psychological problems were getting in the way. 

And yet, Brian's creative 'madness' was also what helped to fuel his extraordinary ideas, so it was clearly a double edged sword.

I think that Mike Eder and Magic Transistor Radio have done a good job of debunking the idea that we have no idea what a finished Smile would have sounded like.  In fact, several tracks were quite near completion and while others are missing lead vocals/lyrics (Worms and Child, for example), we at least have some idea how they might have turned out.  Take a case like Surf’s Up:  We’ve been treated to several different versions over the years from more stripped down ‘demo’ takes (like the ’66 version we all know and love, still my personal favorite) on up to the fuller versions from Surf’s Up and BWPS.  While we can speculate a bit about how the additional instrumentation from Part 2 might have sounded back in the day, that likely would have just been icing on the cake.  We know the core of this song and it stands as a masterpiece.

And this gets to a broader point:  This material has already thrived throughout a wide range of different presentations, from Smiley Smile on up through subsequent releases like 20/20 and the GV Box, BWPS and now TSS.  I think this speaks to the fundamental strength of this material, its modular versatility.  It holds up through stripped down approaches and more elaborate arrangements.  Knocking it for not being completed on schedule almost seems beside the point.  In a way, Smile is more about the journey, even with all the unfinished experiments and blind alleys, than it is about a final product.

I’ve long gotten past the old “things would have been so different if only Smile had been released” trap, the album that might have been.  Things happened the way that they did for a range of complicated reasons, but there’s really no point in beating one’s head against that wall anymore.  While other conceptual masterpieces from the era got a normal release, Smile has experienced this extraordinary subterranean existence, a protracted release that’s taken different forms over the years, including the vital ‘do it yourself’ interactive component which still carries on today.  Sgt Peppers’ is done, iconic and dead in a way, while Smile maintains so much more of its mysterious power and intrigue.  It’s unfinished, yes, impossible to pin down and it refuses to die—I continue to learn new things about it after all these years.  It’s an unprecedented arc for this one of a kind piece of pop art and at this point, I wouldn’t have it any other way.

As for finished tracks -- I thought it was Wind Chimes and Wonderful were marked as finished. Cantina at one time, perhaps. I can't imagine BW had much more planned for Prayer, either.

And though the vocals weren't completed until 1968, I would say that Cabinessence stands as fully realized Smile track, true to its original conception.  And a pretty phenomenal one at that.

With all due respect, the premise of this thread does not compute.  Fragmentary and frustrating though it may be, I can't think of a great testament to Brian Wilson's genius than the Smile sessions.

Carl's vocal there makes things more melodic and avoids repetition. Good call, kids.

I agree.  I enjoy the interplay between Brian and Carl on the new Surf's Up.  If I want to hear Brian solo, I'll just go for the '66 demo.

I rather liked the addition of Whispering Winds vocals at the end of Holidays, but I thought Carl's scatting in Dada sounded funny after they changed the pitch.  I also thought the "Child" bits in Look were pretty pointless and distracting.  It actually had the effect of making the song seem less complete than if they'd just left it as an instrumental.

I thought Mrs. O'Leary's Cow turned out really well, both with the vocals and the crackling effect.  I liked the addition of the yodels to Wonderful, a nice subtle touch.  The Humble Harve stuff was a bit rough, but my expectations there were so low going in and I didn't really mind how it turned out.

There is no wrong way to listen to Smile.   

I always thought that Grammy was an insult. Only more proof of how backwards that organization is.

In what way an insult?  I agree that the institution is bass ackwards!

Please don't stone me to death, but basically all of the Smile lyrics aside from Surf's Up/Wonderful/Good Vibrations leave me cold and don't touch either my heart or my mind.

Cabinessence, Heroes and Villains?

Controversial though they may be with some, I think the lyrics for Cabinessence are lovely and evocative, and even Mike had nice things to say about H&V (except "sunny down snuff"!).  Some of the other lyrics on songs like Vega-Tables and Wind Chimes aren't necessarily anything to write home about, but for all their indulgences, I certainly wouldn't put any of the SMiLE lyrics in there with the worst that the Beach Boys have ever done.

I have to admit that some of that Love You/Adult Child stuff is pretty creepy. . .

Frank Zappa often used this kind of a collage style back around the same time as Brian (see Absolutely Free, We're Only In It For The Money, Lumpy Gravy, Uncle Meat).  In many ways, Frank and Brian were polar opposites, but they employed some similar working methods back then.  They were both fond of working variations on a theme and then splicing them together.

Surf's Up often gets me all choked up.  I wasn't too tough to cry when I heard the new mix on disc 1 for the first time.

I absolutely love the new construction of V-T.  They took what I formerly considered to be rather a lesser Smile track and transformed it into a full fledged cornucopia.  Where the GV box version felt half baked to me, this new construction is fully formed.  (Unfortunately, I don't have a record player, so I haven't yet heard the stereo mix or the single mix--I'm actually half considering getting a turntable now just for this.)  Between the new mix, the cleaner demo and the sessions (which are a lot of fun--listening to that stuff, it's almost hard to believe that the project was in trouble by that point), I'd say V-T has emerged as one of the high points of TSS.

What is it with hipsters and Pabst Blue Ribbon beer?

Maybe it's another hipster reference.  Have you seen Blue Velvet?  "Heineken?  f*** that sh*t!  Pabst. Blue. Ribbon!"

They also literally just released a 24-hour song last week. 

I'm starting to think that the Lips are coming down with "Yes Disease", aka "Tales From Topographic Oceans Syndrome."

Well, I can tell you that compared to what the Flaming Lips have been doing lately, Tales From Topographic Oceans sounds concise and well thought out!  I actually enjoy a lot of progressive/improv music and I'm not afraid of a long song, but I made it through about an hour of I Found A Star On The Ground (their six hour opus) and I thought it was just a noisy, unfocused jam, pretty self indulgent.  I've been a fan of the Lips for nearly twenty years now too and have enjoyed most of their stuff up until this point.  I'll give them kudos for marching to their own drummer, but they've been losing me with this stuff lately.

You know, I am really loving Bruce's comments in the YouTube series!

Go Bruce!

I liked it when he said that the new set allowed you to really "go nuclear" with these sessions.  Very apt description!  While it may not offer too many huge revelations, it's fun just to hear the guys talking about this stuff here.