A musical 401K for his family.

Ah, okay.  Nothing wrong with Brian doing that for his current family.  Sometimes we forget that these aren't just artistic endeavors, they are businesses and machines that are going to keep chugging along, long after the artist is gone.

Good Morning All,

As Memorial Day weekend in the United States approached, I just wanted to take a moment to recognize all of our fallen soldiers over the years.  We get to enjoy everything America has to offer because of your selfless sacrifices. 

I hope everybody has a safe Memorial Day Weekend. 

Ditto, and ditto!  Be safe everyone, and thank someone who sacrificed so much to defend your freedom!

My point was, if the albums are only going to sell to us diehard fans, then why not just let Brian run loose in the studio? I'd like to hear what he would come up with without being pushed in a particular direction. Instead of thinking "if we bring in guest stars, we'll get a hit" or  "if we put out a really polished, AC type album we'll get a hit". Just let Brian create - as he was doing with Andy circa 1995.

There are different ways for an artist and their inner circles to manage the twilight years of the artist's career.

Bruce Springsteen, for instance, is probably never going to have Born In The USA or Born To Run sales again.  But he's catering to his large and devoted audience by giving them spectacular concerts which are recorded and sold directly to those fans, as well as new albums and well done repackages of older albums.

Brian Wilson's approach appears to me to be more directed to building a legacy and body of work that will largely benefit his survivors when the sad day comes that we lose him.  Yes, there's plenty for his fan base too, especially the concerts.  But sometimes the new albums and the overall handling of his career feels more like a musical 401K for his immediate family than a love letter to his fans.

God bless him, I hope it is.

Hope what is?

My point was, if the albums are only going to sell to us diehard fans, then why not just let Brian run loose in the studio? I'd like to hear what he would come up with without being pushed in a particular direction. Instead of thinking "if we bring in guest stars, we'll get a hit" or  "if we put out a really polished, AC type album we'll get a hit". Just let Brian create - as he was doing with Andy circa 1995.

There are different ways for an artist and their inner circles to manage the twilight years of the artist's career.

Bruce Springsteen, for instance, is probably never going to have Born In The USA or Born To Run sales again.  But he's catering to his large and devoted audience by giving them spectacular concerts which are recorded and sold directly to those fans, as well as new albums and well done repackages of older albums.

Brian Wilson's approach appears to me to be more directed to building a legacy and body of work that will largely benefit his survivors when the sad day comes that we lose him.  Yes, there's plenty for his fan base too, especially the concerts.  But sometimes the new albums and the overall handling of his career feels more like a musical 401K for his immediate family than a love letter to his fans.

Just saw an announcement on Facebook regarding a new Beach Boys forum:

http://beachboys.boards.net/

I wish them well! 

Why not just have a poll/referendum so that the board can vote whether he remains a mod or not?  Remain or crexit...

The day members can vote moderators in or out is the day I make this board disappear like it never existed.

"Sorry, this channel is not available in your region yet."   

My very first post got dissed big-time (by an occasional poster I now greatly admire). I suppose the thing is to grit one's teeth and hang on in there. If people shout... well, it's only the internet. Anyway, sticks and stones and all that...

In the early 1990s, I would trade messages with Jacksonville FL natives on a local BBS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

The ugly tone existed then as well.  There's something about electronic communication, whether they be message boards messages, texts, or anything related, that triggers something in some minds, that makes people believe they can act aggressively and inappropriately without repercussion.

What is AGD up these days? Hasn't posted on BBB either. Anyone in touch with him? I gotta figure the ban was hard on him.

He has been posting vacation photos on Facebook and appears to be fine.

When a person is permanently banned, can a person still at least see and read the board without being able to post, or is all access to the homepage blocked?

The latter.

Interesting. I had assumed a banned member simply couldn't log in, but could easily view the board as a guest. But you are saying that a ban also entails denying access from the banned person's IP address? That still would not prevent a banned member from viewing the board from an different IP address or using proxy site or VPN software to hide or change their IP location.

Indeed, that's what Mike's Beard did.

Where'd you get this information? You are new poster. Can't imagine smb. new to know & care about the banned old posters. It shouldn't be your problem.

It also proves that you cannot trust anyone to keep in a confidence in here.

I can't even tell MYSELF secrets.

This entire thread (and incident, for that matter) is breathtaking.

Imagine yourself being accused of a crime or some other hideous act. The authorities take action by having you jailed or removed from the premises. Then, the prosecutors proceed to publicly wage a campaign of innuendo, ladling out vague tidbits that paint a picture of guilt, and at the very least dishonorable behavior. More so, they allow for  speculation to continue via their own public forum from commenters that possess only basic, limited information.

It seems that's what has happened here, and the main players are unable to see the forest from the trees.

Meanwhile, the accused has been awarded no due process. All he can do it sit idly and watch his personal reputation be trashed with no ability to respond.

You are missing one step, and wrong about another.

In between AGD being hauled off by the brown shirts, and the fascist leaders destroying AGD's reputation, you forgot to mention people taking their long-term campaign against the moderators to other forums.  So, let people bring their grievances here.  And let the moderators address those grievances here.

Also, "the accused," as I have already said, is welcome to send a message to me, which can then be posted, completely unaltered and unchanged, in this thread. 

I believe this thread was locked and an attempt at another thread was also locked at the time, wasn't it, when discussions were begun at the Hoffman board?

I think the objection is it appears AGD wasn't given an opportunity to address his accusers or their accusations regarding the alleged potential libel before the banning and before they were exposed to the public. Is that incorrect? 

As has been said more that once,  this thread was reopened because discussion began showing up on other forums.

As has also been said more than once,  the banning was NOT solely due to the confirmed- NOT alleged - potential libel, but also bullying/harassment pms, which had been addresses many time previously,  and had resulted in numerous suspensions

Yes, as was said, both threads were closed at the time.

I understood about the "bullying"; the confirmed potential libel was AGD relating something identified by him as from a second party source as I understand the explanation?

Allegedly, yes. Let me also stress that there weren't just one or two recipients of these messages.

Sent directly from AGD or passed around by second/third/fourth parties? 

The former, definitely ...I have no way to corroborate the latter.

What were you wearing when AGD was banned?

I used to use the logo making software found here:

http://www.studio-v5.com/

Sadly, it does not work in Windows 10.

Any suggestions on a replacement?  Ideally the replacement would have logo templates to use.

I hope I am not banned and publicly flogged for finally speaking out.

No one, NO ONE, has ever been banned from this message board for "speaking out" or voicing their opinion on any topic.  To suggest such a thing shows a gross misunderstanding of the nature of this message board, and hopefully is not an attempt to make others misunderstand the nature of this message board.

Plastics.

Welcome back Jeff.   What brings you back after almost three years being gone?

This entire thread (and incident, for that matter) is breathtaking.

Imagine yourself being accused of a crime or some other hideous act. The authorities take action by having you jailed or removed from the premises. Then, the prosecutors proceed to publicly wage a campaign of innuendo, ladling out vague tidbits that paint a picture of guilt, and at the very least dishonorable behavior. More so, they allow for  speculation to continue via their own public forum from commenters that possess only basic, limited information.

It seems that's what has happened here, and the main players are unable to see the forest from the trees.

Meanwhile, the accused has been awarded no due process. All he can do it sit idly and watch his personal reputation be trashed with no ability to respond.

You are missing one step, and wrong about another.

In between AGD being hauled off by the brown shirts, and the fascist leaders destroying AGD's reputation, you forgot to mention people taking their long-term campaign against the moderators to other forums.  So, let people bring their grievances here.  And let the moderators address those grievances here.

Also, "the accused," as I have already said, is welcome to send a message to me, which can then be posted, completely unaltered and unchanged, in this thread. 

Chuck said he was against Mikey joining the board.  The impression I got was he was always against it.  The post Alan linked to suggested otherwise.  Hence the reason Alan posted it.

The board has seriously gone downhill the last few years.

Mikeddonn, I respect your opinion but disagree with it.  I've heard about this message board going "downhill" ever since it started.   Someday it will be true, but not yet, and not today.  And yes, in 2005, it appears I wasn't opposed to Mikie joining the board.  By 2010, when he joined after being banned elsewhere, I had decidedly changed my mind.

I emailed Mikie twice to give him an opportunity to send me a statement to post here regarding his banning.  He advised he did not have enough information regarding his banning to make a public statement.  He also advised he felt I was refusing to provide evidence to him to justify his banning.  For the record, I did not refuse, I simply did not answer his questions, as they have already been answered previously by the moderators.

He also made it clear that public messages from this thread are being relayed to him, which, of course, is perfectly fine.

One bummer here is that Billy and company are kind of being raked over the coals a bit for actually having an open discussion about this. The more open to discussion they allow things to get, the more they get kicked in the nuts for doing it. 

They never should have started the thread to begin with.

I disagree.  The lies and rumors were happening and would have happened whether they were silent about the situation or not.  The best course of action was to field the arguments, complaints, and questions, and to respond to them.

One bummer here is that Billy and company are kind of being raked over the coals a bit for actually having an open discussion about this. The more open to discussion they allow things to get, the more they get kicked in the nuts for doing it. 

Billy and company deserve a world's worth of riches for the work they do here.  That's not to say anyone is perfect, but they come as close to perfect as a group of people can. 

I ask this because I don't think I've ever been on another board that *is* moderated that *also* allows for an open discussion and offers explanations as to a banning and other internal message board administrative stuff. A lot of other boards are either crazy-as-f**k free-for-alls, more resembling the Wild West days of Usenet newsgroups, or they are tightly moderated and if you say Brian wore a shirt you don't like, you get banned for life. Or, as with something like the BB Britain board, it's just kind of dead unless someone wants to ask Bruce what his favorite beers and surfing spots are.

When I chose to create this board from the ashes of the Smile Shoppe board in 2004, I did it because I believed this community should not be abandoned or reset because of issues created by a minority of members.  I believe this is still true. 

I also did it because I don't think any one member is more valuable than another, even if they are published authors, or if they have experiences most of us can't because we don't live in California.   That means, for instance, that someone like Mikie doesn't get to spread lies about board members or harass board members, even though he has interesting anecdotes to share.

but allowing for all of the speculation and all, when the banned cannot defend themselves is not fair. That was all I was getting at. Sad that it is becoming a board civil war in here.

I am claiming the movie rights.

If the banned have anything to say, they can send an email, and the moderators can decide if it can or should be published here.  Mikie has already contacted me recently by email, and I'd be glad to check with him to see if he would like to be represented here by his comments to me.

If lots of users (even on different music forums) repeatedly express having issues with a certain mod, is that not a red flag?

Define "lots." 

And to answer your question, not necessarily.  If you could give me an example of someone who was banned temporarily or permanently that didn't deserve it, that would be worth looking into.   Mikie and AGD?  I'm surprised Billy and everyone displayed the patience with them that they did.

The URL for the Record Room was no longer functional, and after doing some research, I found this...

https://tayloristheboogie.wordpress.com/2016/04/25/excoboard-gone/

That's not good.

Make Smiley Smile Great Again!

It never stopped being great.  Not when it branched off from the Smile Shoppe in 2004.  Not when "the exodus" occurred in 2006.  And not now.

If we are willing to tolerate contributors who are "trolls, malcontents and general bottom feeders" out of a fear of the message board collapsing without them, then we should shut down the board right now.   

For better or for worse at least Andrew was a walking encyclopedia of Beach Boys history and had a reason for being here.

To quote Andrew, "There's a host of good, good folk here making important contributions, and significant original research has resulted. Then there's the trolls, malcontents and general bottom feeders, who do none of this, being content to disrupt for the sake of disruptings sake. Sad."

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22829.msg540931.html#msg540931

When the line between the former and the latter disappears, when the former becomes the latter, for any reason, an intolerable situation emerges.