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677674 Posts in 27357 Topics by 4046 Members - Latest Member: reecemorgan November 30, 2022, 10:05:27 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Welcome Back! on: January 15, 2022, 06:18:28 PM
It's bizarre to me that the Beach Boys fandom is so dysfunctional. On the Hoffman forum there is a Byrds thread that has gone on for hundreds of pages and nearly a decade without a single significant argument that I can recall, even though there is of course a lot of disagreement as to the merits of various musical projects. And there were schmucks in that band's story that at least equal to the schmucks in and around the Beach Boys'. Am I missing something? How did music so joyously beautiful and issues so inconsequential give rise to all this rancor?

In my experience, I've seen two reasons: one, there are people who, while they are BB fans, use BB message boards to create trouble for a variety of reasons, including boosting their egos, putting other people down, getting attention, and so on.  Two, once more and more Smile tracks were officially released, including Brian and the BBs Smile albums, some people found themselves with less musical topics to discuss, and filled their time with reason number one.

Like with most things we discuss, we sometimes trick ourselves into thinking there are only two sides: left/right, liberal/conservative, Brian/Mike.  But the real world is nuanced and layered, like onions and ogres.  Binary Syndrome, some call it.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Welcome Back! on: January 15, 2022, 06:04:32 PM
I think the one good thing that came out of the Smiley Board being down for a long time: LePage finally set the record straight that "bills/money" have nothing to do with the board going down ever-so-often. So thankfully we'll never have to read AGD or his cronies claiming "ChUcKy DiDn'T pAy ThE bIlLZZ!!!!" ever again...then again, truth doesn't mean much in that circle, so perhaps we will hear the obnoxious line again.

My main reason for adding to the "Smiley Down Again" thread on EH was to answer the misinformation AGD was posting about everything from why the board was down now, why it has gone down in the past, what I was currently doing about the board being down, and the history of the board.  If this was from any other person online with an axe to grind, it would be one thing, but when someone who promotes himself as an "Author/Historian/Researcher" can't state the history of this board correctly (the imaginary "interim board" that existed between the Smile Shop board and this board), and intentionally won't accurately describe the current situation, then his credentials as an historian and researcher of anything, including this board, me, and the Beach Boys, should be questioned and not taken for granted.

To explain my comment on EH, "I will say that all of this has reminded me that, many years ago, Jon Hunt and John Lane were right, and I was wrong. I wish that weren't the case": for a variety of reasons, I stay away from this board, and really, any Beach Boys message boards.   A lot of great things happen in the online Beach Boys communities, but there's a lot of intentionally toxic behavior as well.   Finding out that AGD, and probably others, have spent time and effort making up myths and lies about me and this board, that I am only just now finding out about, reminds me of all the awful things I have witnessed here and on many other BB boards.  The mental, physical and spiritual toll wiped me out like it wiped out others before me.  I'm not diving back into that cesspool of negativity again; the last two years have not been fun for most anyone, including me, and I have too many responsibilities at this time to make myself sick by fighting stupid battles that never really end.

However, good news: there are active conversations about how to make sure this doesn't happen again.    It's too soon to go into details, but if everything goes well, the disruptions will be minimal, and maybe there might be some improvements.  I thank you all for being here, and for your patience.     
3  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 16, 2016, 02:03:31 AM
There are too many people in that board who caused a lot of drama here, or at least did their best to fan the flames, and are now saying they switched because of too much drama here.

That would be history repeating itself.  And, in the end, that is a good thing.
4  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Campaign 2016 on: June 14, 2016, 05:20:56 PM
I would point out that while the 2008 Clinton campaign did help spread the "birther" notion, it did not originate with them.  It originated with Barack Obama himself, who allowed himself be described as Kenyan born to sell one of his books.  When given the opportunity to clear up the confusion while running for Senator, he instead said "what difference does it make, I'm not running for President."  He didn't help matters by releasing a photo-shopped birth certificate. 

The "birther" thing is not a vast right wing conspiracy.  It's a distraction created by the President himself.
The oldest sources I can find for this's te contained here, and they consist of commenters on right-wing sites saying that they remember hearing Obama saying that in a debate in 2004. Do you have any contemporary sources? Any sources other than a few people saying they remember it?
http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/10/15/obama-concedes-hes-not-a-nbc-in-obama-vs-keyes-2004-debate/

Emily, I recall hearing the comment.  However, I cannot find anything more than you have found, so I will concede it as unprovable and I am willing to drop the debate comment point. 

As for the book comment:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp

Of course, to be fair, the publisher called it a "mistake" and took the blame for it.
5  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Campaign 2016 on: June 14, 2016, 05:15:40 PM
Do you agree with Donald Trump that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan?

When did Donald Trump clearly, definitively say that Barack Obama was born in Kenya?  Not just say that it is possible, not ask for proof that he was or wasn't, but said in a clear and absolute manner that he believed the President was born in Kenya?

This isn't a trick question, I honestly would love to get an answer and review the complete comment, if Trump said such a thing.

Regardless, why do you think Trump is doing this to President Obama, and didn't try it on, say, Ronald Reagan? Hmm, I can't imagine why.

First, you appear to be sidestepping your very firm statement that Trump believes Obama was born in Kenya.

Second, why was John McCain's natural born citizenship questioned?  Why was Ted Cruz's?  Can you imagine why?
6  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Campaign 2016 on: June 14, 2016, 01:51:39 PM
Do you agree with Donald Trump that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan?

When did Donald Trump clearly, definitively say that Barack Obama was born in Kenya?  Not just say that it is possible, not ask for proof that he was or wasn't, but said in a clear and absolute manner that he believed the President was born in Kenya?

This isn't a trick question, I honestly would love to get an answer and review the complete comment, if Trump said such a thing.
7  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Campaign 2016 on: June 14, 2016, 01:47:09 PM
And due to seeing that this site is run by a birther, I think I might be moseying over to the Pet Sounds forum.

When did I offer my opinion as to where Barack Obama was born?

https://www.bing.com/search?q=definition+of+birther&pc=MOZI&form=MOZSBR

"a person who doubts the legitimacy of Barack Obama's presidency because of a conspiracy theory that Obama is not a natural-born US citizen."

That's not a definition of me.   
8  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Campaign 2016 on: June 14, 2016, 12:59:10 PM
I would point out that while the 2008 Clinton campaign did help spread the "birther" notion, it did not originate with them.  It originated with Barack Obama himself, who allowed himself be described as Kenyan born to sell one of his books.  When given the opportunity to clear up the confusion while running for Senator, he instead said "what difference does it make, I'm not running for President."  He didn't help matters by releasing a photo-shopped birth certificate. 

The "birther" thing is not a vast right wing conspiracy.  It's a distraction created by the President himself.
9  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Thread for arguments with or about moderation on: June 09, 2016, 11:43:24 AM
Regardless of who is deleting what, we need to figure out how it can be stopped.  It would be a shame to lose all of this great information.  

Thankfully deleted posts are archived (discovered that yesterday by accident )..now if a member edits their post, the original version is gone forever

Maybe the modification of posts should be disallowed.
10  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Thread for arguments with or about moderation on: June 09, 2016, 11:41:22 AM
I guess you have to have A LOT of free time on your hands and lot of disdain and not really feel "it's all about the Beach Boys and sharing knowledge and two boards are better than one" if you go into your old posts one-by-one and manually delete content.

BEST POST EVER, at least until the next best post.
11  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Thread for arguments with or about moderation on: June 09, 2016, 11:19:36 AM
this place is crumbling apart and has lost lots of beach boys history for interested people. one needs to pick ones mods carefully.

This is definitely a "nickel every time" moment. 
12  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 03, 2016, 11:55:38 AM
Regarding these boards, as far as I'm aware, it's not against the SS board rules to discuss *other* boards, at least in the "Sandbox", correct?

Correct.  We are not afraid to discuss the state of this board or any other board here in the Sandbox.
13  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 03, 2016, 10:39:00 AM
Emily, I appreciate your point of view, but I don't think we mean the same thing when we say "bad eggs."  And this isn't a "stupid battle", it's not a battle at all.  Mostly, at this point, it's making sure that mis-perceptions and lies are not accepted as history and facts.
14  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 03, 2016, 10:27:09 AM
Sadly, you will find that putting the bad eggs "who no longer had a voice in here" in a new refrigerator will not make them any less bad.  And, while I regret they made choices that made them not welcome here, I do not regret that this refrigerator is cleaner and fresher.
15  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 03, 2016, 09:50:58 AM
Maybe you can get Andrew to tell everyone what he said about David Beard.

Did he say that he really doesn't have a beard?
16  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 03, 2016, 09:50:14 AM
I will probably continue to lurk there, but the fact that so many people there are so welcoming to a handful of Really Bad Eggs who were ejected from this message board for Very Good Reasons-- some of whom have been accused of maliciously spreading untruths, others who are simply terrible, terrible people-- makes me feel icky. All the backslapping and tribalism grosses me out.

Yes, that made me want to shower with industrial strength bleach with a chaser of hydrogen peroxide.


Hydrogen peroxide reminds of why I am grateful to AGD for starting the new board.  It's like HP in the sense that it has and continues to draw an infection out of this board.  Much like previous times, the drama and bad behavior is being sucked out, so that the board can heal and be stronger than ever.
17  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 03, 2016, 09:47:25 AM
First off, that is my business what gets done at Pet Sounds, not yours. Secondly, you started it by baiting people in Shoutbox yesterday. When you bait people, then expect a reply. If you weren't prepared for an answer, then you should have never posed the question in the first place. That may certainly earn you a ban if I see it happen again.
If you are happy with your Moderators, then that is absolutely terrific. You have things here just as you want them. I am very happy for you. We now have things the way we want them on our board. I am very happy with the Moderators at the Pet Sounds Forum. They will do a fantastic job in there, and already have during the first week open. Folks now have a choice where they want to go and hang out.

1) I baited no one, unless we define baiting as existing and breathing.
2) Due to the limitations of the "shoutbox," my question has scrolled away, but as I recall, the only question I asked was if the board's data could be backed up, since its existence is dependent on ProBoards not disappearing someday.
3) I did make a statement, not a question, regarding the behavior of people online, which inspired AGD to break one of major guidelines of the Pet Sounds forum, which is to not discuss the Smiley Smile board.  Keep in mind, I never even mentioned this forum over there.  But, I'm being threatened with a ban, and AGD is not.  Perhaps I am not important enough?  Or maybe you can't ban, even temporarily, the one person the board was created for?
4) Folks have always had a choice to be or not to be on any particular message board.  It's not as if this has ever been the only Beach Boys forum or music forum.  It is true, however, that for now, the "folks" that have consistently been removed from Beach Boys forums have a place to talk to each other.  For that, they should be very grateful to you for.
18  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Campaign 2016 on: June 03, 2016, 08:27:24 AM
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/politics/Donald-Trump-Rally-in-San-Jose-Draws-Protesters-381728251.html

But, of course, people attending Trump rallies deserve this treatment, right?  They are asking for it just by being there.  And none of the violence towards them is planned or orchestrated in any way.
19  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 03, 2016, 07:57:09 AM
I will probably continue to lurk there, but the fact that so many people there are so welcoming to a handful of Really Bad Eggs who were ejected from this message board for Very Good Reasons-- some of whom have been accused of maliciously spreading untruths, others who are simply terrible, terrible people-- makes me feel icky. All the backslapping and tribalism grosses me out.

Perhaps backing up your opinion, a statement from AGD just this morning on said forum:

"AGD: Learning about human nature via the boards is one thing. Then you have to address the problem. That's why Smiley Smile is imploding: ineffective modding and a mod who should have been relieved of his duties at least six months ago."

Now, that type of statement has earned two other members of that board bans.  I don't think AGD will be banned, even temporarily, for violating their rules.  Which, ironically, shows how effective the moderating here is:  the moderators are not afraid to justly and fairly and carefully take action against violators, no matter how "important" they are. 

You all have some of the best message board moderators you could hope for.  And despite the hopes and dreams of some, this board is not "imploding" anytime soon. 
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: David Leaf on: May 30, 2016, 01:04:45 PM
Yes, I don't think the later stuff will make them much!  Grin

To varying degrees, the Beach Boys profits are shared by the Beach Boys.  Brian Wilson's solo career and his catalogue will be managed solely by Melinda Wilson once he is gone.  Less money, yes, but no one to answer to, and one whole pie instead of a piece of a larger pie.  It has its benefits depending on how you look at it.
21  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: May 30, 2016, 10:17:20 AM
This is much like what happened to the now-defunct Capitol Board in April 2010, when a bunch of us started our own site (still chugging along six years later). There are clear parallels (including the messages in tiny writing!) but major differences too (any banning that took place over there was a result of the move).

I only hope everyone here will eventually be as gracious about this development as Mr LePage.   

We could become buddy boards!

We have had graphics and links to Bellagio and the Record Room.  Why not the Pet Sounds board, or the board that John K spoke of?
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: David Leaf on: May 30, 2016, 04:18:59 AM
A musical 401K for his family.

Ah, okay.  Nothing wrong with Brian doing that for his current family.  Sometimes we forget that these aren't just artistic endeavors, they are businesses and machines that are going to keep chugging along, long after the artist is gone.
23  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Memorial Day US on: May 30, 2016, 04:16:04 AM
Good Morning All,

As Memorial Day weekend in the United States approached, I just wanted to take a moment to recognize all of our fallen soldiers over the years.  We get to enjoy everything America has to offer because of your selfless sacrifices. 

I hope everybody has a safe Memorial Day Weekend. 

Ditto, and ditto!  Be safe everyone, and thank someone who sacrificed so much to defend your freedom!
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: David Leaf on: May 29, 2016, 06:47:16 PM
My point was, if the albums are only going to sell to us diehard fans, then why not just let Brian run loose in the studio? I'd like to hear what he would come up with without being pushed in a particular direction. Instead of thinking "if we bring in guest stars, we'll get a hit" or  "if we put out a really polished, AC type album we'll get a hit". Just let Brian create - as he was doing with Andy circa 1995.

There are different ways for an artist and their inner circles to manage the twilight years of the artist's career.

Bruce Springsteen, for instance, is probably never going to have Born In The USA or Born To Run sales again.  But he's catering to his large and devoted audience by giving them spectacular concerts which are recorded and sold directly to those fans, as well as new albums and well done repackages of older albums.

Brian Wilson's approach appears to me to be more directed to building a legacy and body of work that will largely benefit his survivors when the sad day comes that we lose him.  Yes, there's plenty for his fan base too, especially the concerts.  But sometimes the new albums and the overall handling of his career feels more like a musical 401K for his immediate family than a love letter to his fans.

God bless him, I hope it is.

Hope what is?
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: David Leaf on: May 29, 2016, 05:58:09 PM
My point was, if the albums are only going to sell to us diehard fans, then why not just let Brian run loose in the studio? I'd like to hear what he would come up with without being pushed in a particular direction. Instead of thinking "if we bring in guest stars, we'll get a hit" or  "if we put out a really polished, AC type album we'll get a hit". Just let Brian create - as he was doing with Andy circa 1995.

There are different ways for an artist and their inner circles to manage the twilight years of the artist's career.

Bruce Springsteen, for instance, is probably never going to have Born In The USA or Born To Run sales again.  But he's catering to his large and devoted audience by giving them spectacular concerts which are recorded and sold directly to those fans, as well as new albums and well done repackages of older albums.

Brian Wilson's approach appears to me to be more directed to building a legacy and body of work that will largely benefit his survivors when the sad day comes that we lose him.  Yes, there's plenty for his fan base too, especially the concerts.  But sometimes the new albums and the overall handling of his career feels more like a musical 401K for his immediate family than a love letter to his fans.
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