I'm currently reading Peter Carlin's Brian Wilson biography and although i knew Murray was a terrible father it is in my face again, I don't think it is any accident that Carl and Dennis (or Murry for that matter) died young, or that Brian had mental problems, Murry messed with them badly.

I am also reminded that Mike objected to Pet Sounds quiet strenuously according to Tony Asher and likewise SMiLE strenuously enough for Van Dyke to feel unwelcome and leave. This is a consistent story from many sources including Mike (although different emphasis). It has to be a factor.

Drugs, messed up childhood and continuing pressure from painful father, lots of business pressure and a lot of people relying upon him.

Finishing SMiLE was a very difficult thing to do, Mark Linnett has stressed this in recent interviews.

So having a very hard job to do quickly with Mike particularly giving him static when he needed support, ALL of these things ^^ are the reason.

So does this suggest this is only a solo album? Shame, I would like one last BB album.

Not me, I have no interest in the post Love You BB albums and expect we'd get more of the same. If Brian was in charge and using his current band with the other BBs singing and maybe writing a few words it might be good. But I see that as an unlikely scenario.

I'm looking forward to a new album of new material it does seem like a watershed time for Brian.

Brian's memory of the group's reaction to the music must have changed since "Beautiful Dreamer".

I don't know, this is a time for diplomacy. Brian says "I know they're going to like this and sure enough they blew my mind with their vocals", he doesn't actually finish the sentence how you would expect "and they did like it" or "and they loved it" he said "they blew my mind with their vocals" they can blow our minds with those vocals now.

but it still has Heroes and Villains and Wonderful on it, those are songs with strange words. 

Yep, but you get less songs with abstruse lyrics.

But then consider that between SMiLE being scrapped and Smiley being recorded, two things changed the face of popular music. Monterey and, much as it pains me to admit, Srgnt Pepper.

She's goin bald and Gettin Hungry also have Mike Love credits, I get the feeling Mike preferred it when that happened.  Lyrically Smiley Smile might be a bit zany but regular folks can follow a lot of what's happening there is no "over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield" or "culminated ruins domino" instead "I'm gettin hungry for my kind of woman" and "sure would like to have a little pad in Hawaii".

Also there might have been a bit of panic by that stage the band might have had a taste of the idea of the retreat of Mr Wilson and been thinking something is better than nothing.

It does look strange Brian all lit up in red, but that same red is on the walls on his right, as is something at the end of the desk, the monitor behind him is lit up with the same yellow that is in his hair. I've blown it up and both the desk and Brian look pixelated. I suspect it is a picture of Brian in the studio ;-)

This is a strange album, in a way it was doing something similar to BWPS in that it was putting out a whole lot of unreleased material but this time from Brian's solo career. Mainly Sweet Insanity and Paley Sessions, the cover is a Peter Blake Montage and it matches the montage of disparate songs inside.

I really like this album, to me it is one of the quirkiest BW releases and perhaps the most personal, with strange song writing Brian doing so much of the vocals, it really makes me smile. The album has the touch of real Brian Wilson arrangements, there is always something going on, great changes.

I love the opener Elton's vocals and piano pounding are great, sound is a lot like Carl and the Passions and I absolutely love the line "How could we still be making music after MTV" very funny.

Soul Searchin' finally gets release great to hear Brian and Carl singing this track, classic Brian.

You've touched me, some great fiddle and bass harmonica. love the vocal rounds at the end.

City Blues I'm not sure about, but its OK, desert drive is a pretty cool throw back.

A friend Like you - I think this is true sentimentality from Brian, I can't help smiling hearing Paul on this with his one liner refrain, great pauses and is that harpsichord or harp? This song gives this album a real heart.

Make a Wish and Rainbow eyes both rescued from Sweet Insanity. Taken out of that context their strange romanticism shows its appeal, Brian for a better world. Nice arrangements too, love the drums across the "One big global vision" section.

Then Saturday morning in the City. This is one of my very favourite Brian Wilson pieces, a playful everyday story song with plenty of sections, pauses change in texture and great whistles and pops. Fantastic!

Then Fairytale and again for me this strikes to the heart of what Brian Wilson can be, over the top romantic, an amazing musical ascent. It's not a wonder the man that cut this song wanted to do a Disney album.

Don't let her Know she's an angel, angels and dreams, great plucked strings. Another song saved from SI.

Finally "The Walttz" this is one out of the bag, funny with a great production, amazing fiddle, nice to see Brian teaming up with Parks to do something completely different ending the album on a high note.

So this album has a special place for me in Brian's catalogue, his most personal and eclectic late period album, woefully under appreciated.

Sounds like a good idea to me, SMiLE marked a breach between Brian and the Beach Boys. In a way it marked the start of them as a more democratic band. Although the following albums Brian was still the major creative force. But never again did we have Brian forging his music with a sense of urgency and purpose, he still did some good work with them. With Pet Sounds they were starting to part company and with SMiLE something broke. It might have been better vibes between Brian and the band if they had viewed it as helping with a solo album. It might have been best if Brian had left them then, but as he had said he needed their voices.

I've read your compelling theories about Smile's meaning, and maybe you're right. But we're talking brain. And, for me, that's just not as important as the heart when it comes to music, especially with Brian. If it was, I'd have missed "Don't Worry Baby," obviously one of the most sublime pieces of music ever.
Anyhow, as I said in my first post, I'm not sure what to make of Smile. That's part of its mutli-decade intrigue for me. Can't wait for the box set.

Good post. Don't Worry Baby and In My Room for me are very deep cuts of early Beach Boys, feeling is strongly expressed through the lyrics and perfectly fused with the music and vocal delivery. I regard them as great pieces of art.

SMiLE was/is definitely philosophically superior to Pet Sounds. It's completely on another philosophical level altogether (and philosophically beyond anything by anyone created before or since BTW).

Sgt. Peppers is awesome but philosophically pedestrian compared to SMiLE.

Van Dyke Parks was more of an intellectual than Brian or any of the Beatles, and i love his words on SMiLE, but he is wary of fixing any particular meaning to them & said to Mike L he didn't know what "Over and over the crow flies uncover the cornfield meant". We can certainly find meanings in it if we like but I find the lyrics generally give me satisfying image fragments that complement the music, rather than reach down into a strong central and DEEP meaning. But Within You and Without you has philosophically clearer meaning than anything on SMiLE and overall I'd say the other songs on Pepper are engaging and as inspired as the SMiLE songs are overall while not being as intellectual or articulate.

I don't blame Brian for saying that SMiLE was ahead of its time, the recurring themes and motifs really required the digital music era of today to save time on the editing.

Mark Linnett said something similar in terms of why the SMiLE sessions hadn't come out until now. And definitely what Brian was trying to do was so much harder in an analogue era. I think he could have done it though, with support and mental health.

So he didn't finish it then--so what. It's still magnificent. It's been my favorite album ever since Smile#2, which is testament to its power even as an unfinished piece. The man did good. And still does.

Good post onkster, he did do good and really after this release there aren't that many what ifs left. I think this release will show that even unfinished it is magnificent and with BWPS you have a finished version.

I'm still of the school that if Brian had had support & enthusiasm around him instead of rejection it might have been finished. It was supposed to be a fun playful record, but trying to carry it on his own, his collaborator gone the last part was too much. What had been fun became a slog when there were supposed to be good vibrations. Did mental illness kill SMiLE, or did the collapse of SMiLE cause mental illness? Or drugs? These all have a part to play.

I love SMiLE too but the big news for me from this is that Brian is working on a new solo album of new songs. It is weird this 70 year old man still absolutely fascinates me as an artist and I am delighted by news of a new album. I'm happy he did Gershwin and Disney and I enjoy them both but a new album of new songs is wonderful.

It's legit puzzling me how quickly things fell apart after Love You...

I first got into the Beach Boys in the 80's and I tracked down all their stuff that i could, I was over the moon with them and wanted to hear every scrap and i listened to MIU, LA, KtSA and The Beach Boys, there was a scent of their greatness that I still vaguely smelt. But when Brian Wilson 88 came out it picked up from where Love You left off and those later BB albums just don't repay a listen. There is so much better music around than this, they make Elton John's work look like the height of artistry.

^^^ That's great

It's an intriguing time period for both bands, marking their peak and fall.

For the Beatles it covers Revolver, SFF/Penny Lane, Sgt Pepper & Magical Mystery Tour

For the Beach Boys Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations, SMiLE sessions, Smiley Smile & Wild Honey

What a rich feast of music, I've got to say I love this stuff to bits. Unlike many here I don't rate Pet Sounds more highly than Sgt Pepper, I think it is a more perfect album, Instrumentally Brian used the best session players, he got the best out of them and he was musically extremely creative. You get the feeling that Brian knew what he wanted and he didn't stop till he got it. By comparison Sgt Pepper is a bit amateurish, also worth keeping in mind that the Beach Boys were using 8 track against the Beatles 4. But Sgt Pepper is a much more colourful album, less personal but culturally richer. Art is highly subjective but I think SMiLE and Pepper are much closer in spirit.

With the comparison of SFF and Good Vibrations I find that again GV is the more perfect recording. In another thread someone spoke of how they liked the original lyrics more for GV and i feel some of that too. The imagery is pretty but pretty external:

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears
And the way the sunlight plays upon her hair
I hear the sound of a gentle word
On the wind that lifts her perfume through the air

This line is quite good:

I don't know where but she sends me there

The title of the song and the idea seemed pretty internal introverted, almost psychic, the idea of people giving off vibrations. But much of the imagery doesn't deliver on this wonderfully crazy idea it's just a boy likes pretty girl song.

I liked the original "She's already working on my brain" not as pretty but much more internal.

Whereas SFF the song is very internal and is lyrically very strong, the diction has an immediacy of speech, with his changing his mind, the uncertainty and dreaming takes you right into his head.

Always, no sometimes, think it's me
But you know I know when it's a dream
I think I know I mean a "Yes" but it's all wrong
That is I think I disagree
Let me take you down, cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about

I also see something of a correlation between Smiley Smile and Magical Mystery Tour after the earlier high points Sgt Pepper and SMiLE both bands stepped into a touch of weirdness.

A really amazing period which marked the peak and the point from which both bands started to fall apart.

As I've mentioned before with the release of "The Smile Sessions" it should make a us aware of what a crucial part of the SMiLE puzzle BWPS is.  I mean let's be honest here: It will forever be the only complete rendering of the SMiLE music available.  There is obviously no way to cull a completed SMiLE album from the original tapes so Brian's presentation of the material is probably going to be our only insight as to what finished versions of these tracks could sound like.

I would think it would be worthwhile sometime after 11/1 for someone to post a poll on the forums and gauge what everyone considers to be "SMiLE" to them.  BWPS or the assembly of the original tapes as produced by Mark Linett and company.  I think I know which way the meter is going to go but it would be worth a poll nonetheless.

i think it'd need to be a few years after the event to get an accurate gauge. It was interesting to hear the recent Mark Linnet interview in that he made it pretty clear how big a role BWPS played in being able to put together a credible SMiLE from the existing tapes. Personally I'm a huge fan of BWPS and find that Brian's later vocals give the finished work an extra sense of depth of history and a taste of the suffering and triumph that is around SMiLE. I love listening to that album as Brian would say "it blows my mind".

It already is a cult album?

Yeah if Smiley Smile gets rediscovered it'll stop being a cult album.

I guess over the last month or two I've been listening to them a lot, and just want to hear thoughts and comments from other people.

I highly recommend reading Ian MacDonald's Revolution in the Head, it is the most intelligent in depth study of the Beatles work I've read.

Well put!  I don't understand why some people have to try and pick "one over the other" when both were (and are) great.   Unfortunately for Beach Boys fans, the Beatles had impeccable "timing" throughout their whole career, while the Beach Boys had many, many "timing" fiascos, especially after 1966.   

Yeah, isn't it great to have both? The fact that Brian was blown away by the Beatles and the Beatles were blown away by Brian shows that they both had a rich appreciation of good music.

The Beatles are great. Very different from The Beach Boys/Brian Wilson, whereas Brian said "I just wasn't made for these times" the Beatles clearly were, the cultural currents of the time flowed effortlessly through the Beatles work, Timothy Leary's reading of the Tibetan book of the Dead went into Tomorrow Never knows, Brian Gyson's cut up technique most notably on revolution number nine, Indian mysticism in sitar playing and Within You without you. Sgt Pepper was the perfect expression of Psychedelia as well as the wealth of popular music influences that poured through them and became truly Beatled.

For me the pinnacle is Sgt Pepper there has been a lot of kick back on this album, but it is so positive and creative. Paul's story songs give a warm human appreciation of everyday life. Lucy in the Sky (particularly the mono version with its psychedelic phasing) is a great psychedelic trip. Being for the Benefit of Mr Kite is such a wonderful colourful extravaganza. Within You without you gives a weight to the album, a philosophic centre and it all builds up to the final epic A Day in the Life. Amazing!

For me, the Beach Boys are primarily Brian Wilson and Brian is primarily music. The early Beach Boys records are great but lyrically they are just good. They made a California dream but it is also a bit hokey "East coast girls are hip, I really dig those styles they wear" that's one of the reasons why Pet Sounds and SMiLE are such great albums, the lyrics have moved up a notch, the other being that the music had too.

The Beatles worked together and progressed together at least until Sgt Pepper, there was no one saying "don't f**k with the formula" they were a band in a way that the Beach Boys never were.

Interesting point.  15 Big ones is an odd album, very different from Holland, not just Brian's back but no Ricky, Blondie or Jack Riley. I don't know why they left. I also see that it was released in 1976, Holland was 1973, that was a long time between albums then. So I suspect that the momentum for their new direction had failed before 15 Big ones came along. Riley seems to have been vilified a bit, but he contributed lyrics to Carl's best songs and pushed the group in a progressive direction. 15 Big ones was regression, maybe you could say the same of Love You but that album was radical, daring regression, the albums that came after that I find completely disposable, watered down regression.

I like the song Back Home, I can listen to it, though not often, and can't see the album as strong. it could be seen as preparation for Love You. Then creative drought until Brian embarked on his solo career.

I have a 80GB ipod and used to have a 6GB zen creative mp3 player.

The ipod is much bigger and I liked that, it has a better user interface and has much better shuffle options so I much prefer it.

But apple is in the business of selling music so the ipod can't be used as a back up. You can't easily get your music off your ipod. I had a friend who had a small computer and a large ipod and so kept more music on his ipod that he did on his computer , when the ipods drive failed he lost a lot of music & was not happy. Funnily enough when I got the Zen i had a big old MAC and the version of itunes it supported wasn't compatible with a current ipod. So although I had a Mac i had to get a non Mac mp3 player to use with it. Seems to me Mac/Apple does not support their old systems and you are just expected to constantly upgrade. I could plug my old Zen into pretty much any computer without special software and transfer files on and off it that could be handy.

i think they'll go hand in hand.  i didn't reaally like all of BWPS till i heard the originals.  but then there's still stuff in BWPS that i prefer over the originals cause it's finished.

it's an ideal situation for Smile lovers, there would be a real gap if the Smile sessions had been released years ago & Brian had never completed and recorded it. It's yet to be seen how satisfyingly the Sessions will fit together and play as an album. For lovers of Smile they'll need to have both.

Personally I love BWPS and even like hearing Brian's older voice singing, it injects pathos into the story of Smile, you see more of the struggle around the Smile album and Brian reconnecting with this pivotal album in his career.

The two albums need each other, which album is the child that is the father of the man?

Part of the problem is that by January 1967, rock and roll music was going in another direction. The US flower power hippie scene was now being defined by groups like Hendrix, Jefferson Airplane, Janis Joplin, etc. The Beach Boys simply were not of that ilk (and I for one, am glad).

I agree, I think if Smile had come out then yes they would have been hipper, I can imagine there would have been some stoners that would have got off on Smile, but I still think their striped shirt image and their lack of heaviness would have meant they wouldn't have been at the centre of hipness.

The release now of the Smile Sessions will help the Beach Boys image but it'll be a slow change and there is still the problem of those completely naff post Love You albums that any story of Beach Boys hipness has to edit out.

However, with Smile in the catalogue as a completed album BWPS and as an extensive set of amazing uncompleted pieces and selective editing of the Beach Boys and Brian's catalogue there is an amazing set of music that will live in the soul of the world for sometime. It's hip with me.