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680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 10:06:49 AM
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26  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What fans thought of BW 89 back in 89 on: December 16, 2011, 02:05:14 AM
I had been a Beach Boys fan for a few years. Brian input on the post Love You albums wasn't that great for me. The mere fact that he was doing a solo album amazed me, I got it and loved it. It was a feast after a famine. Brian doing all those vocal parts, some great arrangement ideas, quirky songs. i was bowled over and played it a lot. I still love it, the production is very eighties but it's OK still has some great use of percussion even if it is programmed. Cool song changes. It was featured on one of Radio programmes and got very positive cover. I thought he was back, but there were more long waits in store.
27  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's vocal improvement between BW88 and In The Key of Disney on: December 14, 2011, 12:46:01 AM
I'm a fan of Brian as an artist, both his work with the Beach Boys and his solo career. I loved BW88 I agree his voice is unusual but I thought in later Beach Boys albums Brian's voice stood out and sounded strange, whereas when he sang nearly all the parts on 88 it created a Brian Wilson world that i still find great. A voice is an unusual instrument, in that it carries a lot of personality in it, a good actor doesn't necessarily have a pleasant voice but one that is expressive and distinctive, and there is a large element of  acting in singing. Brian still makes vocal tapestries he uses it musically but it is also unusual.

I do prefer Brian's studio singing especially when he sings multiple parts. I love Orange Crate Art, the song writing/arrangements are fantastic my favourite Van Dyke album along with Jump! But Brian's singing gives it an amazing colour.

I'm also in a minority as I love Brian's singing on GIOMH, i was really pleased that he did most of the vocals himself, it gave that album a really quirky and distinctive character.

But yeah on BWRG and ITKOD his voice seems to have gained a naturalness and ease, maybe it is slightly less quirky but he has plenty of quirk to spare.
28  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Wow...Mike, Al and Dave Reunion! on: December 13, 2011, 09:47:26 PM
... even then some of the best singing was Brian's...

Yawn!
... (I don't agree all the best singing was Brian)

Yawn!

Disagree with what i say rather than what you think I say. The fact that i don't think so highly of a lot of the Beach Boys lyrics and my favourite album is definitely not Holland might have something to do with our different perspectives.
29  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Wow...Mike, Al and Dave Reunion! on: December 13, 2011, 12:36:48 AM
Record making is a collaboration whether Brianistas like it or not. And the Beach Boys certainly were a collaborative entity. YES, Brian was the main guy, but he was not the only guy.

Brian, wrote most of the songs arranged and produced them, he used session musicians for a lot of the tracks and singers (the Beach Boys) even then some of the best singing was Brian's. The Beach Boys grew as performers by what Brian pushed them to do. Whether Beach Boyistas like it or not Brian was as much or more a solo act than many solo acts. How many solo acts write, sing, arrange and produce? I agree music is nearly always collaborative. Did Henry Mancini play all the instruments on his albums? Did Burt Bacharach sing all of his songs? What would Beethoven have done without musicians? Of course the Beach Boys were needed and anyone with ears can tell that they could sing well and when Brian stepped back they made some pretty good music with and without Brian, they also went on to make some that I find really lacking in character, colour and originality.

"There is a war between the rich and poor,
a war between the man and the woman.
There is a war between the left and right,
a war between the black and white,
a war between the odd and the even.

Why don't you come on back to the war, pick up your tiny burden,
why don't you come on back to the war, let's all get even,
why don't you come on back to the war, can't you hear me speaking"

30  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: George Harrison Scorcese Film on: December 11, 2011, 01:42:10 AM
I understand, and in fact we have heard so much of that info before. But, really, the movie is about George's spiritual journey and that really comes alive during The Beatle years. It is really impossible to paint that kind of portrait of George without talking about him learning the sitar with Ravi, doing songs like Within You Without You, turning towards meditation, the Maharashi, the India trip, turning back towards his Western rock roots, peaking with material on The White Album, Let it Be, and Abbey Road, etc.

I suppose if the goal was to simply show that George had a vibrant solo career (and that itself WOULD make a good doc) then you could leave that out. As it stands though, the movie isn't about that. Which is why, for better or worse, we get no discussion on Extra Texture, Dark Horse, 33 1/3rd, the self titled, Somewhere in England, Gone Troppo or Cloud Nine.

Good post, I agree, Scorsese is not doing a doco that fills you in with all the facts and gives you a perfect timeline, he is trying to capture something more nebulous, to give us a glimpse of George. What strikes me about it is the way he showed what a gift of friendship George had, the number of people that felt really close to George was a real testament to his humanity. He might have shunned the press but he still had a full life. It was a doco with heart.
31  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Wow...Mike, Al and Dave Reunion! on: December 11, 2011, 12:56:59 AM
Not showing up burnishes that image -- even though he's probably just being a d--k.

This stuff doesn't matter, turning up for an award ceremony? Really? I think Brian's image is better served by making good music and he has made plenty of that since leaving the Beach Boys.
32  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys vs Beatles in the same years on: December 09, 2011, 02:47:41 AM
Am I one of the few Beach Boys fans that prefers Lennon over McCartney? It seems that most BB fans praise McCartney over Lennon.

Tough call in the Beatles, but I'd go with Lennon, I just love his voice and Strawberry Fields, Rain, I am the Walrus, Lucy in the Sky, A Day in the Life are all amazing, edgy creative lyrics, great use of speech rhythms.

But I can no longer listen to his solo albums, still had the voice but his idiotic belief that he should only write songs about himself and Yoko was an artistic strait jacket that crippled his writing. I do like Imagine and Mind Games (the songs not the albums).

Paul's solo career has plenty of cheese, but his musicality shines through, there is also a lot of invention and diversity.

But I'm coming to like George's solo career the best, the care and craft he puts into his albums is fantastic, there is a sincerity and emotional connection in his song writing and All things Must Pass has by far the most great songs of any Beatles solo album, it also helps that I feel attuned to his spirituality.
33  Smiley Smile Stuff / Produced by or otherwise related to / Re: Van Dyke Parks -Song Cycle on: December 01, 2011, 01:59:03 AM
It has some very clever moments but ulimately I feel like it doesn't really go anywhere.

I'd like to hear some more from people as to what it does for them, because i too have never clicked with this.

Jump! & Orange crate Art are just fantastic, they make their own worlds, incredible arrangements, Jump! is catchy but oh so clever, uplifting a mini musical from some parallel universe. And Orange Crate Art with its recreation of a past that never was & Brian's voice becomes an iconic voice through which this amazing alternate history comes through.

but Song Cycle hasn't taken me anywhere yet.
34  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Opera, anybody? on: November 30, 2011, 11:44:21 PM

I'm surprised Peter didn't like Rigoletto.  The great arias from that are almost Brian Wilson pop.  La Donna e Mobile is one of the most hummable melodies of all time, Caro Nome, Ella mi fu Rapita, Possente Amor, etc, etc--all great stuff.  But that's taste for you, I guess.


I agree Rigoletto was the first opera i saw live. i came away from that thinking what great tunes it had, this was top notch music right up there with the Beatles.

I do actually like understanding the words that's one of the reasons Henry Purcell's Oratario Dido and Aeneas is one of my favourites. Also agree with the earlier poster about the Magic Flute being great, although i've only seen that on DVD.
35  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What will happen to BWPS's reputation after 1st November on: November 29, 2011, 12:53:42 AM
I think that ten or twenty years down the road, it will be a settled fact that the completion of SMiLE in 2004 marked a milestone in pop music unprecedented, and never to be duplicated.  It will also be a settled fact that BWPS made the release of the SMiLE Sessions not only possible, but inevitable.  And together, the two releases will stand alone as the most amazing musical resurrection story in the entire history of popular music--or even of all music, regardless of genre or style.

Great post, I absolutely adore SMiLE 2004, I did cry when I first heard that, it was made with such care and all that great music was finally finished and given a great form. For me as a fan this was a massively important event and I think for Brian & Van Dyke it was too. I also agree that it put Brian in the space to release the original recordings. The two versions serve different purposes and various fans will favour one or the other and some will get as much out of both. But having them both in the public domain is such a relief and it means they can finally be judged for what they are, great music, not just for their legend.
36  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: When in their career, if ever, do you stop listening to the beach boys? on: November 29, 2011, 12:45:27 AM
I stop with Love You, the pickings after that just seem too slim for me, Brian's material just doesn't seem like he is being allowed to do what he wants with it, the arrangements are pedestrian. They lack character and commitment. I move over to Brian's solo career after Love You.
37  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's favourite music on: November 20, 2011, 12:50:10 AM
It was great exploring a whole lot of Brian's influences and taste. I've been reading Philip Lambert's book and he outlines quite a few.

The Hi Lo's - i had never heard of them before, I was really amazed, really clever inventive stuff kind of jazz harmony vocal, and really well recorded and really obviously influential on Brian.

The Everly Brothers
Chuck Berry
The Coasters
lots of Doo Wop

David Leaf writes that "Brian and Audree used to listen to records together, everything from Henry Mancini to rosemary Clooney to the Hi Lo's and, of course the Four Freshmen" Henry Mancini really makes sense in terms of Brian's work.
38  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Captain Beefheart thread? on: November 18, 2011, 09:15:33 PM
The first Beefheart album I got was Shiny Beast & I still love that albums fat fruitiness, great songs and great arrangements. DOC at the Radar Station too just blew me away, the use of Mellotron and gongs is amazing, his voice isn't quite what it was but his quote about not writing songs but spells so applies to that album. Trout Mask was a breakthrough and i have been totally captivated by it, but now I don't listen to it too much. Decals has lasted a bit better, love the Marimba. Clear Spot & Safe as Milk are a Joy. Actually i find Unconditionally Guaranteed really enjoyable, he sort of made a bouncy joyous pop album, who would have thought? Ice Cream for Crow is powerful but it has got a really sad vibe over it.

An incredible, original artist, very different but in the same league as Brian Wilson.
39  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's favourite music on: November 04, 2011, 04:06:45 PM
I know he likes "Switched-On Bach" - he said so in the liner notes of the "Caroline Now!" CD.

Do you know which one? I looked that up and there are two different albums with that title a strange early Moog version by Wendy Carlos and a cheesy modern one by Herbert Waiti.

I found a few others

Earth Angel - The Penguins (He mentions this in Beautiful Dreamer and it is such a Brian Wilson title)
Burt Bacharach - Not sure which songs
40  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's favourite music on: November 03, 2011, 10:58:19 PM
Brian has mentioned Bach a few times. Anyone know if there are particular pieces of Bach's music that have made an impression on him?
41  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's favourite music on: November 03, 2011, 09:59:25 PM

Brian actually attended Rosemary Clooney's funeral if you can believe that.  Brian liked her version of "When You Wish Upon a Star". 

He told Larry King that he loved Nat King Cole's "When I fall in Love" .  He also said he liked Perry Como, Andy Williams and Kenny Rogers, LOL!


Hey thanks, Brian leads us down many strange pathways. I don't know that I can follow him to Perry Como, Andy Williams and Kenny Rogers.
42  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's favourite music on: November 03, 2011, 09:22:10 PM
he mentions Rosemary Clooney all the time.  He likes Nat King Cole a lot too.  

Do you know of any specific songs?
43  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's favourite music on: November 03, 2011, 08:46:58 PM
He recently said he liked "Let It Be" by The Beatles.  

Thanks for reminding me, it just occurred to me that Phil Spector hand on this might have helped endear it to Brian

He's played "She's leaving home" in concert, i understand that Paul played it to him not long after he wrote it.
44  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Brian's favourite music on: November 03, 2011, 07:29:49 PM
I've just made a play list of Brian favourites

Including:

Four Freshmen
Sail Away - Randy Newman
Rhapsody in Blue - Gershwin
Be My Baby - The Ronettes

I'd be interested to extend this so if you know of other Brian Wilson favourites please tell me. Obviously more Phil Spector.


45  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The REAL reason Brian abandoned SMiLE? on: November 01, 2011, 10:59:10 AM
As far as mental illness Brian had it before Smile and he had it after Smile. It didn't just pop up because an album didn't come out.

Hey great post, but I'm going to focus on what I don't agree with. 

From reading Carlin's book on Brian and other material I have read, I think actually Brian's mental health did suffer a significant change within the SMiLE period. Early on he was eccentric, fun, adventurous and highly prolific, he was writing and recording amazing pieces. Towards the end of the SMiLE period he had shed a lot of his friends and was having serious paranoid episodes. I think there is a significant shift. if you look at his work, the version of H&V he finally released it was a pale shadow of his early recordings.  I think at the end of the SMiLE period Brian just did not have in his mind the shining vision of a "Teenage Symphony to God" that he had at the start.
46  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The REAL reason Brian abandoned SMiLE? on: October 31, 2011, 03:33:51 AM
Reading the account I just read in Carlin's biography he writes "Mike had no intention of singing a word of this until someone could explain it to him..." which led to his confrontation with Van Dyke, which ended with Van Dyke feeling he was not welcome.  

You point here is invalidated by the following:

1 - VDP told Mike "I have no idea what they [the "Cabin Essence" lyrics] mean".

2 - Mike sang them anyway.

Like I said earlier, Brian's explanation of why Smile wasn't released changes roughly every five years. In the ultimate final analysis, that he chose to abandon it was far more important than the reason why.

That doesn't invalidate my point. Mike did sing the lyrics anyway but not before he had alienated Van Dyke who was Brian's collaborator on the project, it can't have helped. I feel a bit like Mike Love as I don't understand what you mean when you say "In the ultimate final analysis, that he chose to abandon it was far more important than the reason why." In this world we don't get much ultimate analysis and for Brian I suspect that both the reasons why and the fact that he did abandon the project were very important. As for us its all pretty good, we have a wonderful set of sessions and a completed work with BWPS.

47  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The REAL reason Brian abandoned SMiLE? on: October 31, 2011, 02:16:32 AM

Small point, but I feel a salient one - if the rest of the band were so set against Smile, why did they works their butts off recording some of the most astonishing vocals in rock music, EVER ?  Why didn't they just say "f*ck this Brian, we're not doing it"  or at least call in sick ?

i didn't say the rest of the band, I said Mike, and as i said Mike's objections have come to us from a variety of sources and they're all pretty consistent and i know you are aware of them and it would be an amazing piece of mental gymnastics to explain them all away. What do you expect the Beach Boys to do?  They were good singers that's what they do, Brian wrote amazing parts for them. Those are the tracks that Brian had prepared for them, they could do them or do nothing at that stage, he was unlikely to suddenly change direction and make it an album of surf and car songs. Reading the account I just read in Carlin's biography he writes "Mike had no intention of singing a word of this until someone could explain it to him..." which led to his confrontation with Van Dyke, which ended with Van Dyke feeling he was not welcome.  Earlier Carlin says "Brian began to dread the vocal sessions".  
48  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The REAL reason Brian abandoned SMiLE? on: October 31, 2011, 01:51:27 AM
I'm guessing that if Mike had issues with some of the lyrical content on Pet Sounds, then it's easy to see how he would be critical of the far more 'way out there' lyrics intended for Smile.

Yep
49  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The REAL reason Brian abandoned SMiLE? on: October 31, 2011, 12:45:09 AM
Actually all of the Boys gave the same support to Brian and SMiLE as Dennis did. Theirs' gets overlooked for some reason. There used to be list of the same type of statements of support all voiced by all of Boys during SMiLE.

Surely you don't believe that. Mike might have had his reasons but he did not support SMiLE. I'm sure he cared enough about Beach Boys publicity to say good things to the press at the time, but I have heard on docos, Carl (pretty sure Al), Van Dyke, Brian and Mike himself say he had issues with SMiLE. There are multiple statements from a variety of sources, for it to be entirely uncontroversial. Tony Asher even said Mike was very critical of the lyrics to Pet Sounds.

I think the point about how hard it would have been to finish are right. In the end Brian sat down with Darian and a laptop and they juggled the pieces around they got Van Dyke back to finish some lyrics and it was all good. If Van Dyke hadn't been alienated, firstly by Mike and then by Brian's increasingly eccentric behaviour, he and Brian might have been able to get together and work out a final sequence and worked out what needed to be done to finish it and then done so.

But Brian's mental state was deteriorating through this time and that might have been due to what was happening with SMiLE or it might have just happened anyway, but principally I think it was from being a sensitive person who was messed up by his father and then put under enormous pressure. So finishing SMiLE might have been a race against time that Brian lost.
50  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The REAL reason Brian abandoned SMiLE? on: October 30, 2011, 02:53:38 AM
Were any of the BBs in favour of Smile at the time? Sorry for my lack of knowledge here!

Good question, certainly many have said nice things about it. But did they actually say to Brian that they really liked it? or try to defend Van Dyke's lyrics to Mike? I don't know. I get the feeling there was some worry about their livelihoods.
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