[Smile]

 I really liked the "ragmajesty SMiLE" version of "Elements" which takes "Spanish Guitar Theme", "Water Chant", "Bag Of Tricks", "H&V Intro", and "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", strings 'em together, and puts nature sounds from the Abbey Road Studio collection on top of 'em (along with the fire sounds that exist on one version of "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" already).  That makes a pretty fine "Elements Suite".  But of course, it has nothing to back it up as being anything close to something Brian might have had in mind.

Considering that the "Spanish Guitar Theme" has nothing to do with Smile and was recorded during the Friends sessions, I'd say less than nothing.  

   I learn something new everyday!  Now I have to go back and take it out of both my SMiLE CD mixes...but then, oh what the hell...I like having it in there too much to bother!

and anyway, before BWPS, I don't think either Brian or the BBs have ever used segues or crossfades...

"Cool, Cool Water" 

Yeah, I know, but what I meant was segueing or crossfading otherwise separate songs on an album ala Sgt. Pepper or the Moody Blues' albums.

We BB/BW fans are an odd lot, aren't we.  Just becuase we've spent our lives trying to create a SMiLE LP on our laptops, we think we have the right to change every single Beach Boys album into something much better than it is!

I like Sunflower just fine like it is.  I say leave it be.

But I do agree with the Sheriff that "Cool, Cool Water" is a little overrated.  That said, I have to admit that when I first heard it on an FM rock station in the early 70s, it was love at first listen.  But really, we all know that the reason it's so legendary is the inclusion of "Water Chant", and without that, it would be a kinda quirky, lightweight tune with some really great harmony work at the beginning of it.

One really underrated gem from Sunflower is the Carl Wilson rock workout "It's About Time".  I actually first heard it via the 3-LP "loss leader" Warner Bros. collection Looney Tunes in 1971 (I didn't own a copy of Sunflower until the early '80s).  I remember hearing it and thinking, this is almost another "Good Vibrations", and it rocks my socks off!  From then on, it's always been one of my favorite Beach Boys songs.

This is the conversation that never ends...

I've concluded in my own mind that it was all for the best--perhaps even some kind of divine intervention--that SMiLE was not released in 1967.  It really needed to be the kind of incredible long-form work that it ended up being in 2004, and it probably wouldn't have been that in '67, no matter what had happened.  

My guess is that VDP is absolutely correct about the plan for the album.  The use of segues and crossfading was probably not something Brian was thinking of.  If he had been, then why would he not have used such gimmicks on Smiley Smile?  By then there was even the precedent of Sgt. Pepper to use as a template--OK, one could argue that may have been precisely why Brian didn't do it on Smiley Smile, and anyway, before BWPS, I don't think either Brian or the BBs have ever used segues or crossfades, so there's really no reason to think it was ever in consideration for SMiLE in 1967. (OK, one exception, the "California Saga" on Holland...I can't think of any others...)

As for the original question...I think it may be intentional that the "movements" aren't given official titles on the album.  Like many symphonies are given "titles" by the general public (such as Beethoven's Eroica or Mahler's Symphony of a Thousand--names these works are known by but were not named by the composers), the movements will probably come to be known as "1. Americana  2. Cycle of Life  3. Elements".  And that's as good as anything.

I so very much enjoy the whole musical journey that SMiLE has become.  Really, what we have is grand and great beyond anything we could have hoped for.  There is this wonderful, magical body of work from the 1960s that we call SMiLE, that is forever a jigsaw puzzle for us to play with on our computers and wonder about.  Then there is this wonderful, magical finished work from 2004 that is everything I could have ever hoped for SMiLE to be.  I guess not everybody agrees with me on that one, but I am just very grateful I lived to see it all come to fruition.

Yeah, there's no way that intro was meant for H&V.  I mean, it *KIND OF* works as a chase sequence (I stuck it after "You're under arrest!") but it's awkward as all get out.

That whistle intro was DEFINITELY part of Fire.

It was recorded during a H&V session and shares the same master no. 50745 as many other Heroes sections, so I see no reason to place it with Fire other than they sound like they belong together.

You need another reason? When Brian finished SMiLE in 2004, he put the bells and whistles intro before "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". Isn't that enough to pursuade you? The creator, the author, the man who composed the piece put it there - and now it stands there for history....

You're kidding, right?  Brian and others (Van Dyke) repeatedly said that Smile 2004 was NOT an attempt to finish Smile as it would have been in 67.  It was the creation of a Smile "suite" using Smile era music for live performance - which, when it was completed and received rave reviews, became the BWPS album. 

And who put the "intro" before Fire?  That would be David Leaf, without Brian's input, for the projected 1988 Smile release put together with Mark Linett.  This was widely bootlegged, Darian (the "musical secretary" of Smile 2004 who worked with Brian on sequencing) was well aware of this version, and so . . . it became what it is on BWPS.  But to say because it was on BWPS it was meant to be that way on a 67 Smile just doesn't pass muster.  I guess Good Vibrations on Smile 67 would have had Tony Asher's lyrics included as well in place of Mike's?

Of course I was kidding, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to take a shot at BWPS.

But, why would I be kidding? Go with this for a minute...Brian's laying half asleep on an oversized sofa while Darian is feverishly playing him SMiLE tracks from a laptop. They come to the bells and whistles snippet. Now, that short piece of music has to be one of the most interesting things that Brian Wilson ever recorded. Of all the things that he would remember about SMiLE, that would be up there on the list. Now, if that piece wasn't the intro to "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", I would think that Brian would "straighten out" the myth, and tell Darian where it belongs. If - if - the bells and whistles was an intro to "Heroes And Villains", or a part that might be to linked to "you're under arrest" or ANYTHING to do with "Heroes And Villains", Brian could SIMPLY tell Darian what he had in mind. Now, you have to admit, that wouldn't be too hard for Brian to do/remember. But, it ended up as the intro to "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". Doesn't that mean anything? It should....

Well, Sheriff, I like the way you think...but I already knew that from the thread on SMiLE mixes...

Let me begin by saying that I have fully accepted BWPS as definitive...and whether we accept it as definitive or not, it inevitbably will become more and more definitive as time goes by.  It's such a great "fall and redemption" story that there's just no way it could be otherwise.  The finished SMiLE of 2004 is totally a part of popular music history, and it's not going to change.  When they put out that CD, they "nailed it in stone", and that's that.

That said, I think that indeed "Elements" is the great mystery we haven't solved of what SMiLE might have been in '67.  I really liked the "ragmajesty SMiLE" version of "Elements" which takes "Spanish Guitar Theme", "Water Chant", "Bag Of Tricks", "H&V Intro", and "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", strings 'em together, and puts nature sounds from the Abbey Road Studio collection on top of 'em (along with the fire sounds that exist on one version of "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" already).  That makes a pretty fine "Elements Suite".  But of course, it has nothing to back it up as being anything close to something Brian might have had in mind.

Finally, I just have one more comment.  I think "Heroes and Villains Intro" sounds great between "Our Prayer" and "Heroes and Villains", and if I can ever figure out the other "elements" of an LP-length SMiLE mix, that particular sequence will certainly be a part of it.

I hope he has a happy birthday.  There, I managed it...

I have grown to like Love You quite a bit over the years, but it took time.  But I find quirkiness appealing, so it was inevitable I would eventually appreciate it, I guess.

But I'm very sympathetic to people who love the Brian Wilson of Pet Sounds but can't stay in the same room with the Brian Wilson of Love You.  They're really two very different people, in a way, and they are most definitely two very different types of music. 

I've always loved Smiley Smile, from the first discovery of it.  In spite of the fact that it was a "bunt instead of a grand slam", it is still one of the weirdest, quirkiest, and stoned-est albums of the psychedelic era, truly an underappreciated gem of that period in pop music.

Over the past weekend, I tried to come up with an "LP length" SMiLE mix, and it was frustrating.  I have a theory that's a big part of the reason Brian couldn't finish it in the 60s.  There was too much great stuff for one album.  Capitol was not about to swing for a double album, and I really don't think the idea of expanding it ever occured to Brian.  The CD age is perfect for a work like SMiLE.  What exists in the 2004 completion is something close to three LP sides of fabulous music.  I'm a huge fan of BWPS, and I feel it is quite definitive.

All the same, I love the 60s sessions, and I still listen to them as much as I ever did (along with the BWPS CD, DVD, and the 2/24/04 London boot--I love it all, really).  But to try to boil this all down to a listenable half-hour of music is--at least so far--just beyond me.  I have to give up too much that I love.

So my other SMiLE CD mix is a pretty full CD like the one I just posted.  But the difference is, I went for the most un-doctored SMiLE tracks I could find.  I also include several tracks from post-SMiLE-era BB albums that contain SMiLE material.  Also, I have kept the contents of this CD in the running order of BWPS, with a number of tracks that did not become part of BWPS also included where I think they work best.

So here's the playlist.  I simply call it "REVEREND ROCK'S SMiLE"

1.  Our Prayer (Good Vibrations Box Set)
2.  Heroes and Villains (cantina version--Good Vibrations Box Set)
3.  Heroes and Villains Sections (same source--I cut off "False Barnyard" and faded it, because I've already heard it anyway on the previous track.)
4.  Do You Like Worms (Good Vibrations Box Set--I edited the ending so that it ends with the little trilling keyboard bit, like on BWPS)
5.  Barnyard (Brian's piano demo from Odeon followed by the well-known track with animal sounds, from a Japanese boot I don't know much about)
6.  The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine (mp3 download collection)
7.  Cabinessense (Odeon)
8.  He Gives Speeches (same Japanese SMiLE boot as "Barnyard")
9.  Wonderful (Good Vibrations Box Set)
10.  Look (same Japanese source as "Barnyard")
11.  Child Is Father Of The Man (same source as above)
12.  Child Is Father Of The Man (mp3 download collection--these are two very different sessions)
13.  Surf's Up (Odeon)
14.  I'm In Great Shape (Brian's piano demo from Odeon followed by the very rare piano/saxophone version from one of my boots)
15.  I Wanna Be Around/Workshop (Odeon)
16.  Vege-Tables (Good Vibrations Box Set)
17.  Holidays (Mok's SMiLE)
18.  Windchimes (Mok's SMiLE--used this version because I like the touch of reverb that softens the abrupt tape edit before the big finish--my one concession to something more than "rough originals" in this collection)
19.  Spanish Guitar Theme (mp3 download collection)
20.  Bag of Tricks/Mrs. O'Leary's Cow (Mok's SMiLE)
21.  Water Chant (same Japanese source as above)
22.  I Love To Say Da Da (Good Vibrations Box Set)
23.  Good Vibrations (I call this "Reverend Rock's Extended Version"--it combines the original single mix with some of my favorite sessions material from the Good Vibrations Box Set, along with the faster "hum-de-dum" section from one of my boots, and clocks in at a little over 7 minutes)

"BONUS TRACKS" (The post-SMiLE Hangover Sessions)

24.  Heroes and Villains (stereo remix of single version from Beach Boys Classics album)
25.  Mama Says (from Wild Honey album)
26.  Little Bird (from Friends album--there are snippets of "Child Is The Father Of The Man" on the backing track towards the end)
27.  Cool, Cool Water (from Sunflower album)
28.  Surf's Up (from Surf's Up album)

This was much earlier in the thread, but it was mentioned about key relationships between "Our Prayer" and "Heroes and Villains".  I seriously doubt that Brian gave the kind of thought to key relationships that a trained composer would (though he obviously isn't unaware of them, either).

What a fun thread!  I haven't been to this site in ages, and wondered if I could even still log in.  Fortunately, I found that I can.  

I have a couple of fan mixes I've done.  They're not anything that out of the ordinary.

The mixes I've seen listed make me think I might like to do some more monkeying around with the collection of SMiLE sessions I have and see what I can come up with.

I'll post one of my two fan mixes quickly for you.  It contains the most fully realized stuff I could find (lots of it from either Mok's SMiLE or Fast Eddie's 2004 Reconstruction).  There's also a few things I edited together myself (using soundforge software).  

I call it "REVEREND ROCK'S ULTIMATE SMILE"
 
PART ONE (fairly polished stuff)
1.  Our Prayer (from Mok)
2.  Heroes and Villians Complete (my own creation, using sections from the remixed stereo version of the single and Odeon SMiLE--over ten minutes)
3.  Do You Like Worms (from Mok)
4.  The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine
5.  He Gives Speeches
6.  Wonderful (Good Vibrations box set version)
7.  Child Is Father Of The Man (my own specialized edit using about three diffferent sessions)
8.  Good Vibrations (from Mok--with an edit of the hum-de-hum section from Fast Eddie)

PART TWO (rougher sessions)
9.  Barnyard (from Fast Eddie)
10.  I'm In Great Shape (from Fast Eddie)
11.  George Fell Into His French Horn (excerpts edited from Vigotone)
12.  With Me Tonight (from Odeon)

PART THREE (An Attempt at "Elements")
13.  Vege-Tables (from ragmajesty--oh this is a nice one, with some of the "Vegetables Arguments" mixed into the track)
14.  Look (from Mok, I think)
15.  Holidays (an edit of two different takes I have in my collection--can't recall sources)
16.  Whispering Winds (from Smiley Smile--I brought up the volume considerably)
17.  Windchimes (from ragmajesty)
18.  "Elements Suite" (Spanish Guitar Theme/Water Chant/Bag Of Tricks/Heroes And Villains Intro/Mrs. O'Leary's Cow--edited from various sources)
19.   I Wanna Be Around/Workshop
20.   I Love To Say Dada

PART FOUR (The Great SMiLE Classics)
21.  Cabinessence
22.  Surf's Up (my own edit using Mok and the 1971 single--for the coda--as sources)

PART FIVE (Scraps from the Cutting Room Floor)
23.  You're Welcome
24.  Vege-Tables Edit (from Mok)
25.  Wonderful (combining "Wonderful Insert" with "Rock With Me Henry")
26.  Can't Wait Too Long (from Odeon)
  

I just wasn't made for these times

I'm with Rocker.  The longer I live, the more that song fits me.