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680597 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 11:22:59 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: February 15, 2020, 12:24:00 PM
This is an old thread, but  hey, this became one of my most listened to beach boys LP's.   Anywho,  I was in High School,  maybe a freshman and  as a kid  my babysitter had Shutdown vol 2.  I wore it out and she gave it to me...so that was my introduction to the beach boys.  So to make short story very long, I got the other albums,  Pet sounds  and generally what was in the record rack and that was all i knew of the beach boys, so early 70's I kinda moved on to progressive rock like King Crimson, the Who, and of course Beatles when my friends brother brought home Revolver and Sgt. Pepper and my jaws were dropping. Smiley.  So at that point I had left the BB's behind.  So one day,  I see a Pet Sounds LP at the brothers house, thought nothing of it, but hold on,
its a double LP set with SOME OTHER BAND! Smiley  I didn't recognize anyone from the picture (long hair ect, not observant then),  and so we put it on and Mess of Help is on and its like what the hell its this?HuhHuh  Really liked it.  Especially the drumming and "gritty" aspect of it.   So good or bad, it holds a place in my nostalgia.  Now, now that i do my own recording and mixing I want to know who the heck mixed "here she comes!".  Mr Desper said he didn't like the monitor systems at Brother (IF i remember right -- Wall Heilders old equipment).  Prob JBL's.  dunno.  Sounds like they wanted to be "earthy" or whatever it is and (like the exile on main street LP) not have the vocals up front.  But man, love those drums, in your face.  I think the drums are the "lead".  Smiley    Gated drums, and prob compression, which i could make drums sound like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beach Boys Wild Honey(Sunshine Tomorrow) 2CD Set? on: August 15, 2017, 06:20:47 PM
I just got this, and its all the good things everyone says it is.  I notice the bass seems loud on the unreleased tracks ect.   They are probably using flatwounds  or (gasp) tapewound, which it sounds like on vegtables -- that would make it  bommier.   I am listening on Sony V506 headphones....Am i bonkers? Smiley     
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Does this ever happen to you? on: July 11, 2017, 07:00:45 PM
I almost fell off my chair laughing. L M A O.  This is great stuff.  Still giggling. I gotta to listen to these songs....especially "dork on the ocean". that made my day. For me sometimes
Carls diction in a dense mix will throw me off. Like in Mess of Help.   like "I need a corn for my phone to ring". lol.   back in the OLD days. no internet lyric sheets.  So you toiled in
darkness. ahahahahahaha     I've had the lyrics to Rolling Stone's Sway wrong forever.  When I saw the real lyrics, I will keep mine. Smiley


4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beach Boys Wild Honey(Sunshine Tomorrow) 2CD Set? on: July 11, 2017, 06:27:25 PM
I've listened to this (mono) since 68 or so.  I do mixdowns of stuff,  listen to lots of things and analyze how something is recorded ect.  But every time I listen to this in mono...i STILL hear
more than actually there.  It's just amazing how its very sparse instrumentation on many songs...but my mind doesn't think about that.  Does that make sense?
I don't hear it (or the Beatles For Sale) as mono.  Its right for the songs to get across.   and it still holds up all these years later I hope the stereo version doesn't ruin that. Smiley
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Stephen Desper Thread on: July 03, 2017, 06:48:57 PM

But also, I was amazed to hear, from around 2:36, (Surf's Up, mmmm, mmmm...), a sound that is not, I think, the beautifully fat Moog bass added by Carl, (actually added by me) but what sounds a bit like a reverb tail, played back in reverse, of the lower keys of a piano, building to something of a crescendo, and then some low, fuzzy sounds like muted speach that appear at around 3:02. What am I hearing here? Below noise level adjacent track leakage from unused tracks.

And one final question: Is the piano in Brian's section the same as that heard on the box set? The sound is a little different, but the playing seems to be the same. Same piano recording but on Surf's Up release, it also went through modifications.

~swd
[/quote]

What a great  trick for me to try.  I would of never thought of anything like this  -- using reverb as the "pedal"  on a ambient or whatever track.
Thanks!
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: THE BEACH BOYS UNLEASH 'SUNSHINE TOMORROW' on: July 03, 2017, 05:56:58 PM
Thank you. I kinda figured that,  and I guess it does say "unreleased". Smiley   I just wanted to be sure.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: THE BEACH BOYS UNLEASH 'SUNSHINE TOMORROW' on: July 03, 2017, 02:26:48 PM
Hi everyone,

I was reading in allmusic about this, just to get their slant on it:  "he rest of the first disc is filled with outtakes from Wild Honey and live versions of its songs, all of which wind up being more interesting than the handful of Smiley Smile sessions that begin disc two. Although these are hardly terrible, they all recall the outtakes on the 2011 box"

The smiley smile outtakes are from Brians house? Not  from the  studios in the smile set?


8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Would Al have been a better choice for lead on California Girls? on: June 27, 2017, 07:31:47 PM
What drives me nutz  is he is  singing flat when he starts the song.  I never understood why they didn't fix at least that line.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Monterey Pop Festival on: June 19, 2017, 11:58:07 AM
Did the Beach Boys get paid for renting out their PA? 
(Isle of Wight used the Who's PA...must of been a common thing)

thank you
Jay
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beach Boys Wild Honey(Sunshine Tomorrow) 2CD Set? on: June 13, 2017, 05:55:35 PM
The technology is there. FLAC  can be lossless,  The King Crimson (Discipline Global Mobile) site has FLAC -- because they actually care about their listeners.
Capitol might as well be EXXON or J.P. Morgan/Chase.  Its unfortunate bands  learned the hard way and had their dreams crushed.   The Beach Boys sure learned.




11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Don't F**k With the Formula on: June 12, 2017, 11:30:49 AM
From another perspective.  I was the dumb public at the time and  in my early teens.  My friends big brother had the 2fer set Pet Sounds/Carl and the Passions.  Being clueless,  We put on the Carl and the Passions record and we didn't know who "these people" were. Smiley  Then once we got it,  we thought they changed the name of the band to Carl and the Passions. Smiley     We wore out the record
listening to it so much. Smiley   


12  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Stephen Desper Thread on: June 04, 2017, 05:55:07 PM
Smiley Smiley    I can't confuse you with multiple personalities,   I am crazy (otherwise I'd go insane).

anyway, thanks. going to test this.   

again, thanks.
Jay   
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Stephen Desper Thread on: June 04, 2017, 11:11:51 AM
Oh, I went and looked at my stereo system I have the HTML  2510.   In case anyone is interested. 

  I remember I only knew about it from  Stereo Review  review.   A magazine sadly gone.  Well, much like  quality stereo ect
equipment for the masses.  DAMNED WHIPPERSNAPPERS! Smiley   



The other   Jay. (in this forum) Smiley 


14  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Stephen Desper Thread on: June 04, 2017, 10:51:40 AM
Thank you very much for your time in explaining this.  I am going to try it.   Its all about learning AND FUN.
This will be a whole new avenue of fun and  "research".   As time permits,  I am going to try it, and post  the results.  Other folks here might be interested.
I have isolated instrument tracks from Wild Honey, that I got on this site,  and I have figured out how to hook this up.  So my OCD can run wild.

again,  thanks so much for being involved here.  I don't mean to kiss up, but its a lot of joy.   Learned so much. already.   

Best regards
Jay
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Love You Re-Appreciation Thread on: June 03, 2017, 02:24:56 PM
I had never heard the album until you guys mentioned it in this forum.  As a kid, i learned about the beach boys because my  babysitter had Shutdown vol2,  then  Smiley Smile was out, so I remembering going to kmart (that will be gone soon) to get Smiley Smile. hey why not just jump right in to strange? Smiley  I think I had a few of their early albums, then I turned to Harder Rock
and forgot about them.  Then my friends big brother had the 2fer  Pet sounds/ carl  and the passions.   we thought, who is this?  Took us awhile to figure out it was the beach boys. Smiley   So,
Did I bought CATP for myself, still love it with all its flaws, and had Sunflower, Surfs up, Holland,  then stopped at 15 big ones, less creative.  So I've not listened to most of their later output.

Ok, so reading on the forum about Love You.  I thought, yea, great, another "treadmill" album, but heck I will give it a listen.  I really like it -- it was "different".  I think it stands out as
different like Smiley Smile and Carl And the Passions.   Some of the songs as said here are weak, but they are  interesting.  They sound like they are tired, like they are toasted from the past
drugs, drinking and business stress and personal stress, so that makes it even more interesting.  Drums? lol.   No Hal Blaine here!    I do think its kinda unique for various reasons.
So I guess this is not "RE-appreciaion". its "appreciation". Smiley

The other Jay
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Stephen Desper Thread on: June 03, 2017, 01:20:05 PM
Oh I forgot to ask you, what equipment do you need to get those knocks in your study video to sound outside your head? that is great.

Probably sound even better through my Spatializer.   Yup, I still use it. Smiley  Especially for orchestra/reberby  ambient stuff. I  do my mixdowns of wave files on the PC (I record the tracks on a multi-track recorder), otherwise It would be fun to route everything through that on some types of music.

Jay
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Stephen Desper Thread on: June 03, 2017, 01:05:03 PM
Stephen,   Thanks so much for your kind comments! 
Its extremely rare you get to talk to someone who was there  on an album you grew up with.  I was fascinated  they did this "at home" as I recorded at home (4th grade an up). 
As a kid i always thought that would be so much fun,  hey have "the life", just hangin' out at home, doing songs  and they were putting out records, how could there not be problems? Smiley Smiley
Thats another reason this is so fascinating. 
Reading your  Sunflower,  I can fell the stress and fear  as they had to go back and re-do Sunflower, ug.  I am sure it was "now what?".    I think that happened with Holland too.  UG.
The equipment, rented and permanent came out of the BB's pockets.  I couldn't imagine that.  (vs, the Beatles where I thought you just got what you needed from the company).

And being an adult now, having all these people tramping through the house (as mentioned in your book) ug. 

I tried the 16:1 on my voice (I am doing it blindly as i almost know what I am doing)  as well as a gate, and  it solved  the problem of  always having to compress (in a plugin) on mixdown.
I forgot 16:1  doesn't mean a threshold of  minus 40 or whatever -- you don't have to scream to get a sound through.  So I am learning things from your book and here. I really appreciate
it.   
I didn't know Smiley Smile was recorded through a PA or radio broadcasting board.  (as was Joshua Tree with U2 i think)..   Just interesting little tidbits.   When the Smile box came out
I hear studio quality recordings of these songs. Never understood why they didn't just cut bait and use those vs. Go home, and record something  that didn't have the fidelity -- as much
of that is what makes Smiley Smile interesting to me.   

WHat?Huh Smiley  The president isn't using the holy sm57?  DAMN IT.   Smiley      I am sure the other candidate would of used sm57's!     lol.      Its not about who is president, its about the mic
they use. Smiley Smiley

THANKS very much.
Jay

18  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: A \ on: May 29, 2017, 07:52:34 PM
Thanks for doing the work of extracting these tracks!

I am having so much fun mixing this.  Its interesting to hear the parts, especially the lead vocals isolated.
19  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smilers Who Make Music / Re: Let the Wind Blow (the triumphant return of the e-collab) on: May 29, 2017, 07:04:17 PM
It's just amazing the talent out there.   This is pristine.
20  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smilers Who Make Music / Re: Lonely Sea Cover on: May 29, 2017, 06:46:09 PM
Absolutely perfect singing.  I'd change nothing.

One thing I think would help would be to  EQ the low end of the spectrum where the vibes are, especially in the beginning.   Maybe bring the lead vocal down a bit on the fade.   
I like your reverb choices.

The singing is wonderful though. I am very impressed!

21  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Stephen Desper Thread on: May 29, 2017, 02:58:48 PM
Just  finished The study video  on recording Sunflower.   Man, the effort and complexity that went into the recording of it.   You really hear the complexity  -- and the explanations  of the micing  techniques  really show stuff  you'd not hear about in most  forums these days.   These are very dense mixes,  and a decision to mic the drums further back without compression vs.  regular
micing and limiting or whatever,  I can hear in the finished product why, but I'd never think of it.   Oh the time spent in layering, reverb choices,  as well as mic choices.  Do we compress? do we not?
A million decisions. its just amazing -- and drove up the cost I am sure vs. stick mics up and go and plaster reverb and eq later.

Some things that jumped out at me:

16:1 compression on mikes vocal (dang it, forgot the song)   Its not a loud screaming  Robert Plant vocal. Smiley  Yet, other vocals, light compression or none.   I have no concept how one would
decided to do that vs. lower the fader on mixdown .    Interesting.

mic 4 feet away from acoustic guitars vs. the mic a foot or so away.   You don't notice it, as apposed to the break on Breakaway where you hear the room in the vocals.   I only caught that
because  in my early days,  tried that -- not knowing any better (or worse). Smiley
Now (correct me) except in big studios ect.  People record stuff dry and then use the massive array of reverb and spatial plugins  to get what they want.  At least I do. 
I am sure there is a subtle difference in how it sounds. 

Plastic under the vibes, would never think of that.  I can see it getting more  reflections for the PZM.

Percussion on Our Sweet Love.  I was suprised the "The big boys" [top studio, expensive]  would be using makeshift things vs. having a drum set there.   Course it works. Smiley

That off-the beat drums on Slip On Through, still kill me.  My guess is that was a mistake that everyone liked. that and the ping noise --- very Brain.

On Cool Cool Water, so much work for the stream sound. Lol.   Maybe just call over to Capitol and check their sound effects library. Smiley Smiley Smiley

I really how great they were with the vocal arrangements and singing on  Sunflower from hearing it here.  I only had the first release of Sunflower on CD -- no BB's involvement and
no matrix.

All these years, I never got the "back to vinyl" movement.  Hearing Sunflower on this high level  turntable and pre-amps,  I get it. Smiley

Now If I could get sounds like the door knocking that sounds outside of your head effect I'd be very happy.   I am sure thats special equipment.   I hear this kind of thing in background noise
in movies/shows on TV.

Amazing work put into this. I just couldn't imagine the time (on the original recordings and the videos).

Thanks very much for the toil and effort!

Jay



22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beach Boys Wild Honey(Sunshine Tomorrow) 2CD Set? on: May 28, 2017, 06:00:54 PM
I've had this explained to me awhile back in here...I've read lotza stuff here and this new release konfuzes me as far as the Smiley Smile part.   My understanding is the nice studio recordings
that became Smile and 20/20 ect.  Were done in the commercial studios.  Then they said, shelve all of it,  Brian decided to record at home, and they did Smiley Smile -- new bare bones, minimalist  takes of every song except H&V and Good vibrations?   So other than new versions of what was already done and in the Smiley Smile box set, there is no overlap with Smile?   I know Brian was having lots of personal issues at the time and i think there was some union or other issues (can't remember).    I always wondered why not use the nice polished versions that were basically done instead
of  re-doing it ?   I know this has been talked about at length,  but I can just imagine the faces  when the press and Capitol execs heard Smiley Smile. Smiley   I love it.   Wind Chimes, Little Pad ect.
I love the SS versions much more.  Can you imagine someone new,  bringing home Beach Boys Today, Pet Sounds then...Smiley SMile?HuhHuh  LOL.   
I think for people that don't take drugs....to get an idea, just listen to Smiley Smile.  The original mono mix. Smiley I've heard the bootlegs of the smile sessions,  what *I* hear on the sessions
is Brian is right on top of it.  And (nerd alert) I think Brian was using Tapewound strings on the bass (easier to play).    Just a super fascinating era for me. 
I bought Smiley Smile when I was in 5th or 6th grade.  I was like WHAT IS THAT?Huh??   WHAT IS GOING ON THERE!  Same effect as King Crimsons Lizard had on me as a kid.  Lets see,
50+ years later, both are still faves! Smiley

Darlin was done in the studio?  I love Wild Honey, very very minimalist also. How many bands can just have a bass and piano and occasional percussion and get away with it? Not many.

23  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Stephen Desper Thread on: January 09, 2016, 11:52:00 AM
Thank you, Stephen. I am bookmarking it.
I have sampled drums from my Yamaha Motif, but I am still going to try it.  Ya never know. 

jay
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Stephen Desper Thread on: January 04, 2016, 04:07:08 PM
Thank you very much.

I went out and downloaded a free Transient generator, which I assume is similar.  Tried it on drums....it helped me get them to sound "louder" competing with 2 electric distorted guitars.
See, something else I learned from this forum!.
I haven't figured out the gate trick (thats what it sounded like to you) on the beginning of Here She Comes.  Its really in your face. I noticed the drummer is not playing loud, which goes
along what you said about recording drums.

And not complaining about the treble recorded through the Matrix on Breakaway..Just wanted to know about the difference vs. Marks mix.  Come to think of it, through the matrix, it sounds
more like an LP would sound vs. CD.  Just my thoughts.


thanks again for your time.  Greatly appreciated.
J
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Stephen Desper Thread on: January 02, 2016, 02:47:07 PM
What does an Envelope Generator do...for you, on super pro setups? (vs. Pro-sumer Smiley ).   Those weren't used back in the 70's and 80's were they?

P.S. I am making full use of your site!
I noticed on Breakaway,  when its run through the matrix, it seems to have less high end.  Is that a playback issue on my end?
I have listened to that song for decades.   First time i noticed the castanets (or whatever). Smiley Smiley   Just never thought about them, they fit so well.


Thank you
Jay
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