That went off the rails -
But can we all agree on this:
Brian Wilson - a floppy-haired bright-eyed man-panda of shattering talent

Yes that is perfect.

In honour of the 50th anniversary, I thought I'd re-upload this compilation of loungey Pet Sounds covers. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWQdnJZeLEk

I thought David Anderle was spot on when he described Smile as Brian's cubist period. Imo he is really exploding song form during this time and these beautiful fragments all sound endlessly fascinating to my ears. I think problems arise when they're sequenced into a conventional album structure and we start applying album critiques such as 'weak tracks' and 'filler'.

I like to view the disc one sequence from TSS as a sort of extended sampler of the best bits of Smile (a bit like the vocal track). Within this context, fragments such as Barnyard and workshop still shine for me.

My copies of stereo Today and Summer Days arrived yesterday - they sound fantastic!

Mark Linett's stereo mixes and Kevin Gray's mastering make for a winning combo - These albums have never sounded so good and it's really got me listening to the Beach Boys again (I'd kind of burned out a bit). I cannot wait for stereo Smiley Smile.

I only wish that Mr. Linett would create a stereo mix of Smile (is this possible?) so that Ananlogue Productions could give it the same treatment.

Mark - if you're reading this, would you care to comment on the chances of a stereo Smile? Perhaps in time for the 50th anniversary?!

I have to bump this thread just to say again how incredible the Analogue Productions Pet Sounds (Stereo) vinyl sounds. It has warmth and bass that I have never heard on a stereo mix of this album.

I ordered the stereo LPs for Today and SDSN - can't wait for these - as well as Smiley but as far as I can see there's still no release date for that one.

I haven't followed this thread unfortunately so maybe this is old news but just wanted to say:

My AP Stereo vinyl Pet Sounds arrived to day and I'm really surprised at how amazing it sounds. Every stereo version of this album I've listened to has sounded too bright and clinical but this is the first one that has real bass presence and is a pleasure to listen to. I'm not sure if I'm biased as I upgraded my system recently so everything is sounding better, but  listening today, Pet Sounds was the best I've ever heard it! I will have to give my CATP twofer version of the mono a spin tomorrow to compare.

I'm now considering picking up some of the other stereos (Today and Summer Nights) as PS sounds so good. What is the general consensus on these particular stereo pressings of those two albums?

Also, many thanks to Mikeddonn & John Manning who both recommended Diverse Vinyl after I had a bad experience ordering from Scott Nangle. I received the AP pressing of Pet Sounds within several days of ordering so that was a great tip!

No problem Buddhahat! 

A nice day to receive the Pet Sounds stereo.  I also recommend Today and Summer Days, in fact all the AP releases are excellent.  You won't regret it, especially in a few years when they're hard to come by.  I'm off for a listen to my Stereo Pet Sounds now to celebrate the big 50!

Ha! I hadn't realised that I received the LP on Pet Sounds' actual 50th birthday - maybe that's why it sounded so good! What a happy coincidence.

Best,

B

Nice story.

Got to be the same large white goat (the one that looks like it's balancing on the tortoise), right?!

Paging our resident Sherlock Holmes AKA Guitarfool .... Identify that goat!!

Edit: Damn my eyes, that goat is balancing on that tortoise! I guess it's a smaller than I originally thought and perhaps not the white goat from Pet Sounds.

Cool pic, though.

I haven't followed this thread unfortunately so maybe this is old news but just wanted to say:

My AP Stereo vinyl Pet Sounds arrived to day and I'm really surprised at how amazing it sounds. Every stereo version of this album I've listened to has sounded too bright and clinical but this is the first one that has real bass presence and is a pleasure to listen to. I'm not sure if I'm biased as I upgraded my system recently so everything is sounding better, but  listening today, Pet Sounds was the best I've ever heard it! I will have to give my CATP twofer version of the mono a spin tomorrow to compare.

I'm now considering picking up some of the other stereos (Today and Summer Nights) as PS sounds so good. What is the general consensus on these particular stereo pressings of those two albums?

Also, many thanks to Mikeddonn & John Manning who both recommended Diverse Vinyl after I had a bad experience ordering from Scott Nangle. I received the AP pressing of Pet Sounds within several days of ordering so that was a great tip!

I enjoyed your perspective, Dunderhead, and it's good to see you back.

Nobody doubts that Brian was in awe of this hipster crowd and that some of the motivation behind Smile was an attempt to impress these people and their ilk. But if  you're suggesting that Brian trying to impress others might somehow diminish his talents, I'd argue that his greatest songwriting is built on exactly this i.e. trying to win Murry's recognition.

Plus one only has to have ears and a copy of Cabinessence to know that Brian and VDP were doing incredible things during this period.

Apologies if already mentioned.

Katy Puckrick is presenting this show on Sunday:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07blns7

As Scott is the only UK retailer apparently willing to import these desirable Beach Boys LPs & SACDs, there are others here who may fall into the same trap I did, hence the reason for this post.

I dunno.  I've seen a set of these in a physical shop (Sister Ray in London).  Around £30.00 each if I recall it rightly (the SACDs, I mean - I didn't check on the LPs).  Maybe other shops can either order them in by request or send them out?

You might be right. I guess my point is, anybody looking to buy these in the UK is likely to find Scott Nangle's site first and, as the prices are good, it would be a no brainer to order through him.

My advice is: Don't. I'm a year down the line. He has my £50 for items never sent and he's not replying to any of my emails. There is a legal procedure I will follow but is a colossal waste of time and energy so I urge others to buy these LPs and SACDs elsewhere if you can. I will try Discogs.

Buddha, I can sympathise with you as I have read many negative reviews about Scott.  However, I have always received every order I placed with him.  Having read those reviews before I ordered I took a chance.  I ordered only those items marked as 'In Stock'.  I ordered all of the first batch of vinyls and SACDs from him and they all arrived (I stay about 10 miles from him maybe that helped!).

The second batch (Today, Pet Sounds etc) I ordered from Diverse Vinyl in the UK (Scott didn't have them in stock yet and I read good reviews about Diverse Vinyl).  I would also recommend them as they deliver quickly and charge you when the items are dispatched. Reasonable prices too.

Hope this helps you,

Mike.

Thanks for the info, Mike - that's very helpful.

Edit: Have just ordered Pet Sounds (and pre-ordered Smiley) from Diverse Vinyl. Fingers crossed!

Best,

B

As Scott is the only UK retailer apparently willing to import these desirable Beach Boys LPs & SACDs, there are others here who may fall into the same trap I did, hence the reason for this post.

I dunno.  I've seen a set of these in a physical shop (Sister Ray in London).  Around £30.00 each if I recall it rightly (the SACDs, I mean - I didn't check on the LPs).  Maybe other shops can either order them in by request or send them out?

You might be right. I guess my point is, anybody looking to buy these in the UK is likely to find Scott Nangle's site first and, as the prices are good, it would be a no brainer to order through him.

My advice is: Don't. I'm a year down the line. He has my £50 for items never sent and he's not replying to any of my emails. There is a legal procedure I will follow but is a colossal waste of time and energy so I urge others to buy these LPs and SACDs elsewhere if you can. I will try Discogs.

I wanted to give UK Smileysmilers a heads up about Scott Nangle Audio.

I know some here have had good experiences but I think he may be a fraudulent trader who willingly takes payment for items he has no intention of sending. Either that or he is incompetent.

There are many reports similar to mine here: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/snvinyl.co.uk

To cut a long story short he takes payment upfront (£50 in my case for 2 LPs - Analogue Productions Pet Sounds & Smiley Smile) and then doesn't send the items.

His email communication is baffling and has you going around in circles - a delaying tactic I suspect.

As these particular records were subject to constantly shifting release dates (Smiley Smile has still not been released) suckers like me are happy to wait, despite paying up front for non existent goods (lesson learned).

When it becomes apparent that, even if part of your order is available, Scott will not send it or refund any of your money, it is too late! I've missed the 120 day period whereby my card issuer will arrange a chargeback.

As Scott is the only UK retailer apparently willing to import these desirable Beach Boys LPs & SACDs, there are others here who may fall into the same trap I did, hence the reason for this post.

My advice to other SSers - AVOID AT ALL COSTS and if you have open orders with Scott, cancel and get your money back before it's too late!

These look legit to me in that some of the characterisations are just so bizarre (I'm looking at you handyman Brian / Kung fu Dennis!)

Great find.

Without a doubt, my ludicrous degree of fandom has affected my simple enjoyment. Can't say it's actually ruined it, but l frequently long for the days when l could listen to a track and think, "yeah, like it" as opposed to " well, considering what was going on, it's not too shabby". Wish l knew less.

Yeah I think with Brian Wilson, knowing the back catalogue (and back story) can detract from the enjoyment.

When you know that 50% of whatever newly released album happens to be stuff he wrote 20+ years ago it takes the enjoyment away a bit. But then, should it matter? If we didn't know any different we could enjoy the music at face value right? I think with Brian and the ever-present "does he still have *it*?" question looming large, whether the material is new or not seems all the more pertinent.

I think however since you're realizing the phenomena you've already won the battle.  

One thing I've noticed over the years is that it's hard to see anything with fresh eyes.  I can remember how the Beach Boys sounded to me the first time I heard them in any depth (not just on the radio)... I can remember the first time I listened to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, and my friend explaining to me how this does this, and that's Ringo singing, etc.

Ron, you're absolutely right. In the run up to the release of Smile in 2011, I was dreading the possibility that they'd fly the humble harv demo lyrics into Great Shape, Barnyard and other stuff. When it came out, and they did that, I realised I had a choice - I either spent the rest of my life bemoaning what could've been, or I accepted that they needed to flesh sections like Barnyard out to make the Smile album a bit more accessible, accept it, and enjoy the album. It worked for me and the officially release Beach Boys Smile became the Smile for me. It was a relief to stop the fan mixes to be honest.

I love your point about seeing stuff with fresh eyes (or hearing with fresh ears, I guess). It's so hard to do, especially with stuff as overplayed as Sgt pepper, but I think it is possible to have that 'aha' moment still when something you've played a billion times can still sound fresh. For The Beatles, Strawberry Fields is the song that does it for me still. For The Beach Boys, Pet Sounds still knocks me out every now and then. And the Smile material of course. I'm sure I read a quote from VDP where he talked about them trying to create stuff that would stand up to repeated listening. I think a lot of Beach Boys music has that quality.

Do you ever feel that you're too into The Beach Boys to the point that it hampers your enjoyment of the music?

I'm excited about the new Star Wars movie. I visited a Star Wars message board and I notice some of the fans are griping about minutiae in the new trailer such as the sound of Kylo Ren's voice not being Star Wars enough and so forth. It occurred to me that I was similarly fussy when the Smile box was released. I was so aware of sessions, and fly in vocals, and how long pauses should be in H&V and so on that it was incredibly easy to find fault in the end product.

It's the 'I see the strings' effect when you're so savvy about the mechanics of an illusion that you're immune to the magic itself.

I'm glad I'm removed enough from Star Wars that I will be able to enjoy a lot of The Force Awakens at face value. I wish I could be the way with the BBs sometimes.

My speculation? Barnyard wasn't super important. It was the fade to Heroes and then a little later, it wasn't. Personally I think most of the other candidates for Heroes' fade work better and make more sense. The stolen OMP fade is probably the best, but if you want to keep that in its original track, there's a dozen others you can make from all the various sections.

The Harv demo is important because it gives us a snapshot of an earlier Heroes and Villains - one that contained both GS and Barnyard. There are some quotes that suggest that H&V lost something the more Brian tinkered with it and I'm always curious about that - what was the initial character of the song?

A H&V that contains Barnyard and GS (as per the Harv demo) has a stronger sense of narrative imo and a recurring single protagonist throughout.

At a guess (a big guess but please indulge me) the overall lyrical content of Heroes at the point of the demo might have been something like the following. I've highlighted all the points where the central male character is present:

I've been in this town so long that back in the city
I've been taken for lost and gone
And unknown for a long, long time

(I) Fell in love years ago
With an innocent girl
From the Spanish and Indian home
Of the heroes and villains

Once at night Catillian squared the fight
And she was right in the rain of the bullets
That eventually brought her down
But she's still dancing in the night
Unafraid of what a dude'll do in a town
Full of heroes and villains

My children were raised
You know they suddenly rise
They started slow long ago
Head to toe healthy, weathy and wise

At three score and five
I'm very much alive
I've still got the jive
to survive with the Heroes and Villains

Freshened air around my head
Mornings tumble out of bed
Eggs and grits and lickety-split, look at me jump
I'm in the great shape of the open country

Out in the barnyard
The chickens do their number
Out in the barnyard
The cook is chopping lumber

Jump in the pigpen
Next time I'll take my shoes off
Hit the dirt, do two and a half
Next time I'll leave my hat on

So it's a guy that moved from the city long ago, out into the countryside/a wild west town maybe? He's 65 now and looking back on his life - a love lost, three children which have grown. Then we're very much in the present (maybe via the tape explosion), he's tumbling out of bed out into the fresh air of his barnyard and surveying all the animals etc. Admittedly the narrative tails of a bit around the barnyard section, but if more lyrics were to follow, then that's not a problem.

The more I consider this the more I think the "We're still working" line in the demo refers to VDP and Brian's attempts to create an ending to the narrative - either with further lyrics to Barnyard (if that's the fade), or in creating another extra section after barnyard that would be the conclusion of the song.

They would go on to create the 'Sunny Down Snuff" section which fulfils that purpose.

I've run away a bit there and made lots of fanciful leaps of logic! I do stand by my point though that a Heroes that includes GS and Barnyard has a clearer sense of narrative, less abstract than the final release.

Can we all just agree tho that the fact that we can take all these little sections and argue whether they're in Heroes/IIGS/OMP is significant? And that Brian going back and forth himself, as well as back and forth on CE/Worms and IIGS/Veggies too, is even more significant? You don't hear about this kind of jumbling of Heroes into Wonderful, Worms into Surfs Up or OMP in Wind Chimes for example. It's always between the songs we typically associate with Americana. I take this to be extremely compelling evidence those songs would go together on a side since they're all part of the same train of thought, and their individual pieces interchangeable. Furthermore, since its pretty clear the Americana idea was more VDP's thing, I wonder if this correlation means anything? If he was more prone to writing in snippets or rather, he had a lot of little ideas of vignettes of America he wanted to express but not so much full songs?

I think the two suite idea is attractive and I sometimes lean towards it when I group the songs. However, it just seems a bit too clean. Your argument that American songs are only mixed with Americana songs and so on just doesn't hold up - Wonderful ends up with the Heroes/bicycle rider major key variation in its final Smiley incarnation so I don't think Brian was so precious as to only rearrange sections of songs within certain suites.

I'd love to believe that the american and life suite songs always existed as separates but I'm not 100% convinced. I think Brian & VDP got in that sandbox and just went where inspiration took them. There were certainly separate themes of Americana and the Wordsworth poem maybe inspiring some cycle of life songs but I doubt they decided at that point that they would form separate sides of the album. I really think they were just going where the muse took them. Certainly, for Brian, if he felt a section would sound cool in another song I can't imagine him being bound by the divisions of suites and a heroes section ending up in Wonderful bears that out.

But then somebody mentioned a Darian quote that said those two suites were vintage. Are we sure about that? What's the quote? I only remember him saying they had two clear suites and they created a third (the elements). I get the sense that the music lent itself very obviously to two suites and anything that didn't fit neatly ended up in a catch all Elements suite.

Just one example, he says the wood sawing and hammering was part of Brian's "barnyard" or farm concept, along with doing You Are My Sunshine in some kind of Old McDonald Had A Farm scenario...it came from Brian playing "Sunshine" while they were high (according to Vosse) in that slow sad way, then it started spinning into the barnyard direction that included the woodworking/building noises and the animal noises as heard in the actual piece "Barnyard". So it was Brian's sonic version of Old McDonald's Farm, if you take Vosse's word. And I do.  

So Barnyard, OMP/Sunshine, and Workshop were meant to be the Barnyard Suite? But I've also read that IWBA and Workshop were meant to go with Great Shape, and since OMP and Great Shape are listed as different tracks on the Capitol tracklist that kinda creates a contradiction (Smile is full of contradictions though so that's not really surprising). Maybe You Are My Sunshine only gave Brian the idea of the Barnyard Suite and wasn't actually meant to be a part of it? So the actual Barnyard Suite would have been Barnyard, Great Shape, IWBA, and Workshop?

That's according to Michael Vosse, and as I said I'd take his word at 99% accurate, because his descriptions line up with what we eventually heard as it came out decades later.

Keep in mind the preview Brian did for Humble Harve, he goes right from Heroes into Great Shape, no break, like a segue. Then they break, small talk, Brian says "another section..." and he kicks off Barnyard. It made me think Great Shape was more of a Heroes thing by design, especially since Brian does the horn's "flutter tone" link right into Great Shape. Part of the same album side perhaps, the Heroes "American" side, but IIGS more of a Heroes link than Barnyard. Maybe.

I think the fan mixes and compilations through the years have muddied the waters on this Barnyard music far more than it was at the time Vosse (for one) heard the plans as they were being made. If Barnyard weren't separated by Brian himself showing it to an outsider while he deliberately did a live segue right from Heroes into IIGS, it may have been harder to place.

I dunno, to me it just sounds like Brian couldn't think of a transition between Great Shape and Barnyard at the time. He calls it another "section," not another "song," so it's pretty ambiguous. And just a month later Great Shape was put down on the Capitol tracklist as its own separate track. I don't really see that as evidence of Great Shape having a stronger link to Heroes than Barnyard.

Yes this is how I always hear Barnyard in the demo - as part of Heroes & Villains. When he says "There's another section" I think he's either saying, "there's another section after Great Shape which we're still working on so let's miss it and jump straight to this cool other section: Barnyard" or he's saying "There's another section - and here it is: Barnyard". It just doesn't seem plausible to me that he's demoing Heroes and then plays Barnyard as part of a totally different song.

Actually, listening it sounds like he says "There's another section now" then moves into Barnyard. Although I might be mishearing that now - he could be saying "there's another section after"

Halfway through playing Barnyard he slows down and says "I haven't finished this" which suggests to me that when he says "We're still working - there's another section" he's more than likely talking about Barnyard - that's the section that still needs the work.

It seems like he's humming a lot of lyric parts so perhaps VDP was still working on lyrics and that's what the "We haven't finished this" refers to?

There's certainly a lot of space for lyrics if you listen to the backing track.

Listening to the demo there's a pause in the Barnyard section and a short exchange between Brian and maybe Danny Hutton and VDP? It sounds like this to my ears:
BW: "You're the lamb and he'll do the chicken ..."
Hutton(?): "... thing (or "ya think?" hard to hear) 'cause that's something he's having trouble with - You're still nowhere near."
VDP: "OK"

Are they talking about Brian having trouble with Heroes and Villains, the Barnyard section, or are they talking about the difficulty VDP is having writing lyrics for Barnyard or just the difficulty one of them is having making the animal sound(!)?

I'm rambling a bit but, listening to this demo, I wonder if Barnyard was more significant than is generally thought in that it was a part that Brian or VDP or both was having trouble with. Perhaps, if Barnyard was a substantial part of the song, after the flutter tone it was just to be Great Shape/tape explosion followed by Barnyard as the coda.

My current mix runs almost 89 minutes. By no means "historically accurate." Just an excuse for me to get all of the actual music in the most "finished" takes possible in one place in a listenable fashion. I must say, it works well.

1. Our Prayer - Same as the "album" on the Smile box.

2. Heroes and Villains Part One - At 6:32, one of two tracks under the name "Heroes and Villains" and one of the two "epics" on the mix. 0:00-1:06 is the usual verse a la the Smiley version, but with several fake "overdubs" of the stereo vocals plus some other bits flown in from the various test mixes released on the box set. I was so shocked that it turned out as well as it did; I spent at least three hours on this one section alone trying to get the balance perfect and avoid any flanging or phasing on the vocals (I was working with FOUR vocal "tracks"). The segment was then mixed to mono and compressed to sound like a 1966-era mix - the bass was pumped up considerably but not so much as to overwhelm the rest of the music. 1:06-1:46 is a "bad edit" (one of many on the mix, meant to emulate the occasionally choppy edits on some test mixes of the time) into the chorus, just like the Smiley version with the Baldwin overdub bonus track from the box mixed in LOUD on purpose to pummel the listener. A bit of that music that would "scare a lot of people." 1:46-2:32 is the same as the Smiley version with the "la la la" vocals and the a cappella tag. 2:32-3:01 is the Cantina section. 3:01 to 3:34 is the same as the end of the Cantina mix before the "false Barnyard" tag. 3:34-4:06 is the "Western theme" taken from the "sections" mix on the Smile box. 4:06-4:34 is the "chimes intro." 4:34-5:08 is "Do a Lot" from the January 1967 comp reel. 5:08-6:32 is some fragments from the "Bag of Tricks" session that segue into the actual fragment, which then immediately "bad edit" into the "pickup to 3rd verse" and ends abruptly, immediately going into...

3. Do You Like Worms? - Same as the Good Vibrations box version, but using the Smile box fragments to avoid the tape speed issues on the former.

4. I'm In Great Shape - Same as the "album" on the Smile box.

5. Barnyard - Same as the "album" on the Smile box.

6. My Only Sunshine - Same as the "album" on the Smile box.

7. Cabin Essence - Same as the "album" on the Smile box.

8. He Gives Speeches - Same as the bonus track on the Smile box.

9. Heroes and Villains Part Two - At 11:07, the other epic track on the mix. 0:00-1:20 are some outtakes from the tack piano sessions for Heroes and Villains from February 1967, which segue at 1:50-2:39 into some "bad edits" of the February 1967 "piano rehearsal" made into a somewhat listenable melody. 2:39-3:34 is an outtake from the tack piano sessions from February 1967. 3:34-4:15 is the undubbed tack piano/harpsichord "Bicycle Rider" track from February 1967. 4:15-4:58 is the same track with the overdubs. 4:59-8:12 consists of the various "Part 2" fragments from February 1967 that were also excerpted, in the same order, on the "sections" mix. 8:12-8:35 is the "My Children Were Raised" bit from the Smiley version, seguing at 8:35-9:36 into "Sonny, Down Snuff" and the Smiley chorus once again. 9:36-10:25 is three takes of "Tag to Part 1" in various stages of the overdub process. 10:25-11:07 is the fade remake from March of 1967 with Carl scatting over the track.

10. Wonderful - Same as the "album" on the Smile box.

11. Child is Father of the Man - This one follows Brian's 1966 backing track edit for the first half, providing the chorus, verse, chorus, bridge structure. At 1:52 the "verse" from the first version plays and then immediately "bad edits" into the April 1967 version of the track, which then edits back into the chorus once more, ending with an EQ'd and compressed BOOM from the bass and vibes.

12. You're Welcome - Same as the bonus track on the Smile box.

13. Good Vibrations - Same as the "album" on the Smile box.

14. Untitled - Basically an "intermission" of sorts. Just the chorus from the first Child is Father of the Man session which segues into the unfinished remake of the Heroes and Villains verse from March 1967.

15. Untitled - 0:00-0:53 is the "vocal insert" from the January 1967 sessions for Wonderful. The remainder is the "rock with me Henry" version of same from January 1967.

16. Untitled - An edit of the finished takes from the original sessions for Wind Chimes in August 1966.

17. Look - Same as the "album" on the Smile box but without the vocals.

18. You're With Me Tonight - 0:00-0:28 is the Hawthorne "You're With Me Tonight" and the remainder is the June 1967 track.

19. I Don't Know - Not much could really be done with this one, so I just took the better takes and some rehearsal notes from the session excerpt on the box and edited them into a listenable order.

20. Tune X - Same as on the Smile box, but without the count-in.

21. Vega-Tables - Same as the stereo mix on the Smile box, just collapsed to mono.

22. Holidays - Same as the "album" on the Smile box but without the vocals.

23. Untitled - I jokingly nicknamed it "All Day Dada" since it's just a mix of all of the different versions of the Dada melody that were recorded before May 1967. In order, just the taped piano version, the electric piano version, and the "All Day" Heroes and Villains fragment with some session noodling thrown in.

24. Wind Chimes - Same as the stereo mix on the Smile box, just collapsed to mono.

25. Mrs. O'Leary's Cow - 0:00-0:28 is the organ rehearsal from the March 1967 "intro" session, 0:28-0:53 is a later take from the same session with piano and organ, and the remainder is the same as the "album" on the Smile box minus the vocals and with the fire noises flown in from the bonus track on the box and mixed louder.

26. I Wanna Be Around/Friday Night - Same as the "album" on the Smile box, with a small edit to remove the segue into Vega-Tables and continue the "Friday Night" portion.

27. Love to Say Dada - Same as the "album" on the Smile box for the first half, minus the vocals. 2:22-2:32 is a bit of session noodling from the first of the two May 1967 Dada sessions, which features a reprise of the Child is Father of the Man melody. The remainder is the "second day" track.

28. Cool Cool Water - This involved a lot of creative editing and cutting and pasting of elements to create an "intro" which features yet another reprise of the Child is Father of the Man melody. 1:18-2:28 is the June 1967 version. The remainder consists of the November 1967 track in various stages of vocal and instrumental overdubs.

29. Untitled - Just the April 1967 version of Wonderful until 1:19, and then a reprise of the same piano melody with Michael's vocals.

30. Surf's Up - Same as the "album" on the Smile box, but with one notable difference. For the first movement, both Brian and Carl's vocals from 1966 and 1970 respectively are heard singing the lead vocals; the latter possible thanks to the bootleg a cappella mix which was then applied carefully over Brian's vocal. This was another arduous process; in some cases the vocals had to be matched word by word if not syllable by syllable at some points. Flanging and phasing was again a problem; much time was spent adjusting pitches (the a cappella bootleg mix ran about a half-step flat) and ironing out some digital noise on Carl's vocal thanks to the lossy nature of the leaked recording.

31. Untitled - The "Jazz" session from November 1966. Think of it like the house music after a concert.

So yeah, it's not "historically accurate." It's just what one bored guy did over several nights because he wanted all of the listenable bits in one place minus session chatter and much of the noodling.

This looks fun. Are you able to share somehow please? I appreciate it's probably a huge file.

.

Dessert Drive

 

FWIW Mujan, the Vosse article that was discussed earlier isn't in LLVS if memory serves. I think it's on the internet (or buried in these threads somewhere) but if you can't find it I can scan it.

If only one of the band members had a soft spot for cutlery, we could club together and mail them a set ...

There should be a separation between discussing the historical issues versus the aesthetic, the latter especially in the way of decisions made by those editing their own "Smile". If it's aesthetic, anything goes. If it's attempting to be a historically accurate attempt, as tough as that may be due to the state of flux certain parts always seemed to be in during the process, then I think a debate or a challenge is appropriate. Having said that, I won't debate aesthetics because it's all subjective as to what sounds better to the person doing it.

That said, let's tackle "Love To Say DaDa" historically and musically to start.

Is there something to be challenged in the labeling and placement of this music in the Smile Sessions box set?

Consider there are several attempts dating from December 1966, one specifically with the taped piano strings where Brian even takes it into a 3/4 "waltz" section with the familiar chord progression. Then there is the clip of Brian playing the piece on a Fender Rhodes electric piano, what must have been one of the first of those instruments around the LA music scene since it was a fairly new invention at the time.

So that's December, 1966, taped piano strings and all, and those tracks fall under the 'Love To Say DaDa' title.

Then in late January 1967, we have a full reel of sessions labeled/titled "All Day", it's the same chord progression played by Brian where he cycles through various takes including doing the taped piano strings which are also treated with tape echo (if I recall). Yet these attempts - keep in mind, the same chord progression, feel, and in sonic terms it had the same taped piano strings effects - are placed under the "Heroes And Villains" sessions.

Then we move to May '67, as has been mentioned in this thread already, and now it has a part 1 of "Dada" and a part 2, which is the same material heard since December 1966 and those first piano run-throughs. This time it's actually slated as "Love To Say Dada", replacing "All Day".

So what does that mean in terms of what this piece actually was?

There is a pretty modern term that has been popping up in the collectors world, "re-purposing", as in buying an old beat up table at a yard sale and "re-purposing" it into something else for resale.

Question is - This chord progression and feel, called All Day, Love To Say Dada, whatever the case...it seems to be Brian re-purposing the idea as almost all songwriters do as a general rule. It's a good idea or fragment for a song, but where can I take it to call it finished? What else can I do with it?

So the question becomes with this piece, historically which of the possibilities is the more accurate one, was it "Love To Say DaDa" when Brian played it in Dec. 1966, and if so why did it become "All Day" a month later, and how did it become a part of Heroes instead of elemental? Or was it actually elemental at all in Dec 1966, meaning where did the label come from that was in the Smile Sessions tracklist? Was it a tape box?

OK, assume it was "DaDa" even if it was or wasn't labeled that way from Dec 1966...It was on a full reel of "All Day" sessions a month later, and assigned to the Heroes batch of session work. Repeating myself, same music, same chords, same sounds, same feel. But now it's labeled part of "Heroes" according to the box set.

Then May 67, as stated in this thread, it's "Love To Say DaDa" again, this time with a part one and part two along with other ornaments. Well, press reports at the time already pretty much sounded the death knell of the original Smile, entirely accurate or not, and within weeks of this DaDa session the band would be in the home studio cutting Smiley Smile tracks like "Hawaii Song" or whatever the working titles of the tracks were. THEN in the fall of 67 Brian does "Cool Cool Water"...same basic music framework as he had demo'ed in December 1966.

So even a piece like this "All Day" or "DaDa", what was it? Did it change shape and purpose from December '66 to May '67? Is the labeling as we saw in the box set accurate as far as placing it in "Heroes" versus a fragment called "DaDa"?

Food for thought.

It is a bit baffling. I'm not sure if he still subscribes to it, but I like Cam's theory (apologies if I misrepresent it here) that the b side of H&V was at one point to be a sampler for the album - Smile in microcosm - featuring small fragments that reference the larger songs. This then explains the existence of anomalies such as All Day (it is a reference to Dada), Heroes Intro (ditto Fire), Tag To Part One (Vegetables? Wind Chimes?) etc.