It was originally called Doin Time on Planet Earth (c. 1986), which was a movie starring Adam West. The movie didn't use the song, so it got reworked lyrically into Being With the One You Love. This is where Join the Human Race comes from at the very end of the deluxe edition of Brian Wilson 1988

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26MR4QEpIVA

I think this version was played over the radio years ago and this is from an old recording from that broadcast, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Gaines writes about a show at Wembley in 1977 in which Mike, so angry at Brian, threw a piano bench at him, which landed in the audience, almost hitting Christian and Hayleigh Love. Now, wasn't this 1977 Wembley show canceled? All of their European dates were canceled that summer. They did play the CBS Convention in London that summer, but it was a closed show. Gaines writes that the estimate for the audience of this show was over 50,000. Is there any more information on this story? Did it happen? Are the dates/locations mixed up? I've only read about this in the Gaines book.

I listened to the audiobook a few years ago on YouTube. I knew going in there were a lot of factual inaccuracies about the music and that some fans said it was all sensationalism, but I found that a lot of what I heard, more or less synced up with other information about the band and their inner/personal drama and turmoil. I do think it's too Dennis-centric, but seeing how he had died only a few years before publication, I understand why Gaines put that emphasis on him. It's been awhile since I've read any BB book; but do any others go into the details on Rocky and Stan or Carolyn Williams as Gaines? I feel like those episodes are memory holed in the official BB history.

There are some standouts from the Wilson/Paley sessions, but I do think it's a bit romanticized among the fanbase. Even if the BB recorded those songs for an album in 1995, I really don't believe it would have fundamentally altered their career trajectory. Maybe some buzz in indie circles, maybe fleeting top 40; but I really don't see any of that material as chart topping material, even though there are some great songs present.

A few things to consider:

1) How much of these songs are Brian and how much are Andy with Brian being there?  I think Brian was more involved with this material than some of his later solo releases, but perhaps a lot of these songs were more written by Andy than Brian.

2) Carl had the right to be skeptical of Brian's ability to do an album. I'm sure many here have seen this Brian interview from 1995: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUHUGXDIhz0  This is the worst I've ever seen Brian. Overweight, chain-smoking, grimacing frequently, struggling to be coherent. I think this interview is one of the few times fans can see what Brian's mental illness is like behind scenes. Carl had already seen Brian get used and abused several times prior and probably felt that Brian couldn't produce an album again.

3) Melinda did not like the Paley material. She said it was good therapy but not something to be released. I disagree with that statement, but it's important to discuss in why this material was never completed back in the day. I'd much rather prefer this as an official release than Stars and Stripes or Imagination. They did re-record some of these songs, but done in the style of Joe Thomas.

god I love seeing people so incredibly wrong

Dynamite drop in, Orange-y. That Troll school really paid off

Not sure I saw this here, but I saw that Rocky Pamplin passed away in December.
https://www.echovita.com/us/obituaries/ca/orange/rushton-pamplin-15653661

There are some standouts from the Wilson/Paley sessions, but I do think it's a bit romanticized among the fanbase. Even if the BB recorded those songs for an album in 1995, I really don't believe it would have fundamentally altered their career trajectory. Maybe some buzz in indie circles, maybe fleeting top 40; but I really don't see any of that material as chart topping material, even though there are some great songs present.

A few things to consider:

1) How much of these songs are Brian and how much are Andy with Brian being there?  I think Brian was more involved with this material than some of his later solo releases, but perhaps a lot of these songs were more written by Andy than Brian.

2) Carl had the right to be skeptical of Brian's ability to do an album. I'm sure many here have seen this Brian interview from 1995: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUHUGXDIhz0  This is the worst I've ever seen Brian. Overweight, chain-smoking, grimacing frequently, struggling to be coherent. I think this interview is one of the few times fans can see what Brian's mental illness is like behind scenes. Carl had already seen Brian get used and abused several times prior and probably felt that Brian couldn't produce an album again.

3) Melinda did not like the Paley material. She said it was good therapy but not something to be released. I disagree with that statement, but it's important to discuss in why this material was never completed back in the day. I'd much rather prefer this as an official release than Stars and Stripes or Imagination. They did re-record some of these songs, but done in the style of Joe Thomas.

This interview doesn't seem too revealing. It seems like more of the same shtick from Mike. Wilson brothers drugs! I didn't necessarily get from Mike that Brian's recent struggles were due to taking drugs in the 60s, but maybe I'm immune to Mike's standard interview responses. It's beyond sad Mike has to go to this well so often, but this interview seems to be run of the mill for the Lovester.

It does make sense to me why some people will question why Brian's still touring when we see a frail old man who hardly signs during his own shows.

This is factually untrue.

From what I've seen and from what a friend told me from his show in Colorado, that's what I've gathered. I have no agenda. 🤷🏻‍♂️

As a fan I cannot make an accurate assessment of things with regard to Brian touring. It may be unfortunate that some people write more inflammatory things in regard to him still touring, but we can't prevent what others write about on various forums. The video evidence of Brian on this tour has been, in my opinion, very embarassing though. That doesn't mean he's in a Landy situation. It does make one wonder why is this still go on? Are there any clips from this tour where Brian seems amped up? Look to how he was 20 years ago live, he had moments of being pumped performing. I haven't seen that the last few years of him touring. Brian and his music has helped me a lot over the years, but I'm not going to blindly assume everything is great currently when the video evidence contradicts that sentiment. I could have saw Brian in KC, on his 80th birthday no less, but I choose not to. Part of it was financial, but a bigger part was I knew the show would disappoint me and make me sad. Seeing the clips from that show and others have only reinforced my view. I've actually never seen Mike and Bruce, and I have a lot of criticisms about Mike, but you can tell that they want to be there when they perform. It does make sense to me why some people will question why Brian's still touring when we see a frail old man who hardly signs during his own shows.

I think it's a combination of session dates not being accurate/Brian having good days and bad days/Brian not giving a sh*t and/or being passive aggressive. I really like Love You and Adult/Child, but I wonder if the songs and the rough vocals were a passive aggressive put on by Brian since he was forced to be back when he wasn't ready to be.

I think a few things can be true simultaneously. While I understand the worries fans have about Brian being taken advantage of by others, I've not seen anything remotely similar to the type of control Landy that had over Brian. At the same time, I am wondering, why is Brian still touring? I've only seen Brian once, back in 2016, and I am very happy that I got that opportunity, but Brian was declining then. He sang most of the leads for that show, but with each succeeding year, he does less and less lead vocals at concerts. Due to his back problems, he's had to use a wheel chair, and he has to use a walker now to get on stage. He had a mental health issue back in 2019 that caused him to postpone shows. Then, the pandemic. And now, he's 80! I just don't understand why he's still touring. I knew Brian was going to be performing here in KC on his 80th birthday, but I decided to not buy a ticket, mainly for the reasons I mentioned above. A friend of mine saw Brian for the first time at Red Rocks and had a similar review to others I've read on the forums: Brian was weak, Al sounds great, backing band great. It reminds me of the line from the BW 1969-1982 documentary about Brian being onstage in the late 70s, early 80s, being paraded onstage like a circus bear. Carl was doing that at Knebworth. It was loving but Brian doesn't seem to want be there. It's a celebration of his great music yet he's the least involved. I just feel like we're kind of at that point again with Brian. Again, I don't know any of these people or what they think, so I cannot make assumptions. I think fans do have a right to ask themselves this question, while at the same time, keeping grounded enough to not give into the crazy conspiracies that pop up online amongst some fans. If any of you choose to go see Brian live, I hope you have a wonderful time. I am sure you will.

Out of the chauffeur's quarters and into the ether, happy 80th birthday, Brian.

Carl led a private life. I think he was a really good guy, as many of his friends/colleagues have said over the years. I don't know much about MSIA, but one thing to consider, is that celebrities like Carl probably were treated differently than the average member. If John-Roger was as powerful and bad as people have said, he probably knew to hide that stuff from the big names. Carl could very well been insulated from that. It's all speculation, though. Another factor to consider is that John-Roger, in his own way, could control people, maybe like Landy with Brian. We probably won't ever know the extent of their relationship.

If he wrote Where I Belong as an ode to MSIA, that's fine, it's a great song.

Glad the board is back up. May we all remember the reason we are fans and the greatness of this music. Let's be good to one another. Here and on other forums. I'll be posting anywhere as long as the topics are interesting and the discussions can enlighten us more on our favorite group.

I rented the film on Amazon Prime Friday. I had read some reviews beforehand that this wasn't going to shed a ton of new information and for the most part, that's true. I think, though, for a general audience, it did a good job of presenting Brian but also the music of Carl and Dennis. While I would have loved for some Love You tracks to have been played in the drive; I understand the limitations of a documentary. For me, the boring parts were the typical narrative structure that's in any BB/BW documentary. Stardom, creative genius, burn out, redemption.

The highlights for me were the more intimate moments; such as the conversations between Jason and Brian in the deli. Brian's memory of things is interesting; you wonder how much of it is age, substance abuse, Landy abuse, or Brian just being Brian. He knew of River Song and talked about it in 1976 in the Bob Harris interview. I know talking about Carl and Dennis is tough for him, so perhaps that's why he says he never heard POB. Or could it be the other factors listed? Who knows? I liked Brian singing You and I in the car, though; even if he didn't remember the lyrics. He seemed to recall Holland, though. As others posted, the news of Jack's death was a sad on camera moment but an insight into how Brian processes grief n the moment.  It was cool to see him yell out the window of the car to ask the year of the vintage car.

One thing of note was Brian mentioning Sly Stone staying over one night. Brian says that Terry Melcher brought him over and he assumes that Sly was sleeping after doing cocaine. In the Gaines book, there is a particular passage that intrigued me about Brian and California Music.

From the book:

"In order to alleviate Brian's cash flow problems, Terry Melcher and former Beach Boy Bruce Johnston, who now ran an RCA funded production company called Equinox Records, gave Brian a contract to produce 36 sides, with an advance of $23,000. Note: Carl Wilson wrote a letter to Crawdaddy magazine in 1976 in which he said, 'While people were saying they were trying to looking out for Brian and he didn't have any money and he didn't have any control, the fucking truth is that Sly Stone and Terry Melcher and all those people were hitting on him for $1500 a week, so they could score coke, ok? That is the fucking reason why Brian's name was taken off the checks.' Carl later apologized to Sly Stone and Terry Melcher in a follow up letter to Crawdaddy."

So was California Music just a ruse for Brian to get drug money when he was being cutoff by Marilyn? Carl comes off pretty mad in that letter, which was definitely unusual for him. I'm assuming he publicly apologized due to threat of libel/slander. Did Bruce and Terry really think Brian was going to help produce 36 sides at this point in his life, too? California Music just seems so random; it's nothing original, just a bunch of covers that were pretty outdated for the time, and I can't imagine their being a big market for that in 1974-1975. I understand wanting to cash in on the nostalgia wave, but these songs aren't the originals people grew up with.

It's a good film, wish it was more Brian/Jason driving around and listening to music, but I will take what I can get. I think any BB fan would enjoy it.

Goes without saying all the contributions Billy brought to the BB world over his life. The one time I saw Brian live Billy was a part of the band, so thankful to have seen him perform. Farewell our friend.

Mike Love Sells Out! (Again)

Isn't the instrumental track the original one from the Sunflower sessions and the 2020 mix is just a 2020 mix of the 1980 version? I honestly don't know why this song gets the hate it does. Lyrically, it's nowhere near as cringe as Hey Little Tomboy and I Wanna Pick You Up. I prefer it to about half of the songs on KTSA; including Endless Harmony (but, like a lot of Bruce songs, does have a cool ending in addition to the cringe).

Just referring to his solo work; I think, usually, Brian has been more of a participant than collaborator; but there are times when he does contribute.

For 1988 and Sweet Insanity, I think this is pretty Brian, despite the constant presence of Landy. It sounds Brian; just how Love You and Adult/Child sound like Brian. Landy's presence is felt, but musically, it sounds like the guy who made Love You in the 70s'; all made up for the 80s. It may be easy to say, well, these two albums were really made by Landy, but Landy couldn't emulate anything like Brian musically speaking. I'm sure it was hell working with Landy, but the overall sound of these two are Brian.

Now there were a lot of other collaborators; chief among them Andy Paley. My view about Paley is that he was almost like a life coach for Brian. He could get Brian amped up and rolling; the ideas would start bouncing back between them. Brian doesn't get that comfortable with many people; so these type of collaborations I'm totally fine with. Brian is still contributing to the sound of the album, in addition to co-writing and co-producing. I think that's why some of the Paley material had a lot of promise as well. I don't need Brian to be a one man wrecking crew like it's 1966. IF he needs a collaborator, that's fine; as long as he is enjoying it. From what I've read Brian really did like the material they came up with. However, the Beach Boys did not and I recall Melinda calling the material great for therapy, but not for release.

And, in my view, that's the last time we got anything original from Brian. The Don Was soundtrack and Orange Crate Art are clearly more guest than anything else, though he did arrange the vocals for OCA, it was still mostly a VDP project. The Joe Thomas material has always seemed really artificially Brian. Wasn't the process record Brian for a few hours and try to generate a new song from it? Everything about Imagination is over the top in its appeal to 1990s Adult Contemporary. Same with GIOTH; it sounded dated when it was released. Has Brian ever sounded pumped up when talking about either one of these albums? I've not seen it. From what I read, Brian was more or less forced to work with Joe Thomas. The late 90s period is weird; Brian stops working with Paley, makes AC with Thomas, while relocating to St. Charles, Illinois, to create the album. (I think they built a studio there, too) Then by 1999, weren't he and Thomas in the middle of suing each other? It's like Brian never lived in St. Charles at all. It gives me vibes of Brian being forced to go to Iowa in winter 1977 to make music. Come on Brian, get up, make some music for your cousins, friends, and brothers. And none of that Adult/Child crap! Come on Brian, get up, make some music with Joe Thomas. And none of that Chain Reaction of Love crap!

BWPS was mostly based off the live show but it did lead to Brian working on TLOS with Scott; Brian was coming up with some original material. The Disney and Gershwin albums were nothing original, but Brian was into singing the material. Even though TWGMTR is a BB album, I'll include it here due to the heavy presence of Joe Thomas. (First, why is he back after the lawsuits and the fighting?) There are some really good songs on that album, but I really don't know what exactly Brian did in making the album. It's a collection of old material from the 90s, with a few newer songs and Mike's Daybreak. I want to believe Brian had a hand in From There to Back Again, but I easily accept the entire production and composing could be Joe Thomas. I can't tell exactly where Brian is; I can tell places where Brian is being emulated. The album seemed like it was put together without the Beach Boys until it was time for vocals. I can understand why Mike had his issues with how the album was made because it doesn't seem like a real Beach Boys album. Was there any chance of anyone writing together? Al? Bruce? David? It seemed tailor made to promote the 50th reunion tour; that's it. No Pier Pressure seems even less like Brian, even though there are a few good tracks. Take into consideration interviews of people saying Brian just sits there, says and does nothing in the studio. Someone is making the music, but I don't believe it's always Brian these days. That's fine. Brian doesn't owe me anything. I just hope Brian likes making these albums and doing these tours. Maybe he does and he just goes with the flow, but there's also the other side of Brian we hardly see. He did have to postpone several shows for mental health reasons. I imagine even with the best treatment, he probably still suffers a lot from mental illness. Those reasons alone I don't expect him to create anymore. He should play music whenever he wants to and it doesn't have to be recorded. Just let loose.

I definitely understand the need to respect people's privacy and not upset about certain people declining interviews about all of this. From a historical perspective, it's interesting to see how the murders of the century were not entirely prosecuted ethically. There are a lot of unanswered questions about the murders that have nothing to do with The Beach Boys. (Did Manson or someone else go to Cielo to rearrange the bodies? Was Reeve Whitson on scene at the murders? etc) There are also the questions about Manson's time in San Francisco, mainly around the two Smiths and Jolly West and his hippie crash pad that was being observed by confused grad students.

I agree with guitarfool about talents being like stocks and every agent/publicists/etc will do anything to keep their talent's stock high. Terry Melcher provided testimony in the Tex Watson trial on August 23rd, Gregg Jakobson gave his testimony August 26, 1970. In Melcher's testimony, Dennis is mentioned 21 times. In the Jakobson testimony, Dennis is mentioned 15 times. Sunflower was released 5 days later and was off the charts in a month. That would seem to indicate that there was a industry boycott on the Beach Boys. Add in the factor that they weren't hip anymore to play on the radio, and it makes sense why Sunflower, despite being the best cohesive music the group ever made, bombed.

The Manson involvement is an important part of the band's history, but I don't think it's been told fully, for obvious reasons. This is why the tapes will never come out (until maybe when everyone associated passes away) The tapes could be nothing of substance or the could depict friendly interactions among some of the band and Manson. We can only speculate, but being associated with Manson is clearly bad for business. If it weren't for Endless Summer, would the Beach Boys have become popular again? What effect did it have on each of the band members? Did this create the first real schism in the band that exploded in 1977 at the tarmac? I imagine by the time of the tarmac incident, there was a lot of built up resentment that had went back for years among the members. How did this affect the personal relationships with the band?; particularly Dennis and Mike. It definitely influenced the direction their career went; if Sunflower hadn't bombed and there was no Manson connection, would the group have gone with Jack Rieley?

Also, what did all of this have on Brian's mental state? Brian was pretty far out by the time Smile ended. If we assume Brian did meet Manson at some point just once, I'm sure that haunted Brian after the murders had happened. We know how freaked out he was about supposedly causing fires in Los Angeles. Add in the cumulative effect of Murry selling his songs, Sunflower's chart failure, his own fragile mental state, and drug use. After Sunflower, Brian just doesn't care anymore. He'd rather work at the Radiant Radish or produce Spring or hang out with Tandyn Almer and Danny Hutton. He didn't want to do anything with the band anymore, but they kept getting him to show up since they recorded in his home.

In my view, I believe the decline of Dennis started with Manson. He clearly had guilt and it haunted him. O'Neill does mention the quote (maybe from Leaf's book?) from Dennis where he said he would one day tell the true story of what happened.

At the end, I am just a curious fan. I'm not interested in sordid details, just interested in the correct narrative of how things played out.

So I finished the book and there is a lot take away, but first, I think the Beach Boys fandom needs to confront that Dennis (and the band) were much closer to Manson than we will ever know. Reading and posting on another forum about this topic, I have noticed several fans who buy the Bugliosi "Helter Skelter" hook, line, and sinker. They seem to judge the book without having read it; that any talk is merely conspiratorial garbage and should be dismissed. I think the fandom has blinders on the life of Dennis Wilson. I love Dennis' music, but the man was completely reckless and, like all of the Wilsons (you too, Mike), in need of some mental health treatment.

I was going back through the Manson portions of Heroes and Villains after reading Chaos. There are startling revelations made in passing about Dennis. I'm not sure where Gaines got the source for this information, but he says that in addition to bonding over young, attractive girls; Dennis and Manson also had a mutual dislike of black people. There are anecdotes that people say about Dennis not being afraid of Manson, but Gaines writes that Manson sensed fear in Dennis and knew how to prey on it. Charlie took clear advantage of Dennis generosity and it seems it was willfully. Dennis even quotes Manson telling him that fear is nothing but awareness. That's some Landy-esque talk right there; just Manson used psychedelics and Landy used pharmaceuticals. Maybe Dennis did punch out Manson as Van Dyke's hearsay would have us believe, but I do feel like Manson knew how to manipulate Dennis.

Dennis and Charlie also bonded over orgiastic sex; which kind of falls in line with Dennis' "I live with 17 girls" quote. (Add Mike's claim about group sex to this as well and you start to see that this is the stuff they did.) Gaines even includes Audree discussing meeting Manson and the family and warning Dennis not to tell Murry about her visit, which of course Dennis did anyway. Gaines quotes Croxey Adams several times, who was a 15 year old girlfriend of 23 year old Dennis when the family lived with him. This stuff doesn't age well. Again, I think the fandom has a blind spot for Dennis' actions at times, because he's the charismatic Dennis. I understand why people are defensive, but the truth is that Dennis, like Melcher and many other celebrities of the time, probably had closer relations with the Family then we will ever know. Does this implicate Dennis as a murderer? Hell, no. It does show though that Dennis was vulnerable and prone to being taken advantage of. I view this timeframe as critical in the history of the BB. They have left Capitol and now need to make it big for Warner. Brian's back in the studio more after 20/20, the band's working as a whole and musically, they are really firing on all cylinders.

But then, you have Murry selling the catalog in November 1969 and Manson getting arrested in December. Mike's hospitalized February 1970 after his apple juice fast. I can't imagine the inner band drama during this time; especially after Sunflower bombed. Nothing was going right for them and now the cloud of Manson was tied to them forever. I think the fallout of Manson on the BB has been understated. It further emphasized them as persona non grata when it come to air time. It probably created or, really furthered, resentment between some members of the band. Judging by the Bellagio timeline, Brian starts doing less for the band after Sunflower's failure. A lot of the Manson stuff had a cumulative effect and I'm sure it contributed to the decline of Brian (and obviously Dennis). If Endless Summer was never released, the group could have easily faded away after Holland. By the time of Brian's Back, it seems like the band only stayed together for the money, which of course, created even more problems.  

O'Neill cites Jon Parks, Jon Stebbins, Stephen Desper, Brad Elliot, Karen Lamm, David Anderle, Alan Boyd, Stanley Shapiro, Nick Grillo, Ryan Oskenberg and Ed Roach for his notes on his Beach Boys sources. That's a pretty good array of knowledge on the band. Through Rudy Altobelli, he was given Carole Wilson's phone number, but after initially agreeing to do an interview, she backed out, saying that it's a scary thing and that anyone who knows anything won't talk. Altobelli told O'Neill that Carole had a diary of the time Dennis met Tex Watson and that she hated Melcher. She even had a picture of Dennis naked with some of the family girls around the pool. The one thing she did say to O'Neill was that there was more going with Hollywood and the Family than has been reported. He also mentions Carole pursued a romance with Jay Sebring around this time, which he said had never been reported before.

Another individual that's connected to Manson via Dennis is the mysterious Reeve Whitson, who also has connections with Hatami, Polanski, and Jay Sebring. Chaos mentions Whitson met Manson through Dennis. Has anyone ever seen that name floating around in BB circles during this time? Even just a passing reference?

Terry Melcher does not come across good in the book. The handwritten Bugliosi note of Decarlo saying he saw Melcher at Spahn after the murders is damning to the Helter Skelter narrative and also meant that Melched lied under oath. It's interesting how Melcher always slides in and out of the Beach Boys world. I also wonder what Bruce's connection was to all this being in the same band as Dennis and having that history with Terry.

I always thought Mikes story about taking a shower at Dennis' house didnt add up. Who goes to a party and takes a shower? Especially after manson had already been weirding them out, supposedly...That he was with some chick in there makes it make a lot more sense.

I saw some of the Joe Rogan interview with the author pretty crazy. I will read the book probably...One thing that hasnt been mentioned in this thread is that quote from Dennis from the 70s when he says something like "i know everything about why manson did it and what happened... as long as I live, I'll never talk about that" or something similar....If it was more than just Helter Skelter BS then that makes a lot more sense. Especially if he was possibly protecting Gregg or Terry for some reason. Didnt want to say that Terrys story in court was BS or something?

I was just watching neil young old interview with howard stern and he mentions hanging with Manson a few times at Dennis' house. Didnt go into much detail tho just how much it impressed him that manson could just make up songs non stop on the fly.

So I have always questioned some of Mike's claims about Dennis and Manson decades after the fact. I understand why he may not wanted to talk about it, but a part of me also thinks were some of these stories designed to push his autobiography? I try to be fair to Mike, though, even when he makes questionable decisions. But recently on some Beach Boys forum, I came across an story of a Manson Girl, I believe it was Squeaky Fromme but not 100% sure, who claimed she recognized Bruce at a concert after this night with the family? Mike said he left, which I can believe him. He was getting into TM pretty heavy around this time so it does seem he would have been turned off by it. I question if Mike stood up to Manson about taking a shower, though. Again, it sells books if the lead singer of the Beach Boys rejected Manson's request to not leave the family. However, Mike recalls that it was he and Bruce who attended. Bruce was a swinging bachelor. (I recall seeing another article talking about Bruce's carefree single life, maybe shortly after he left in 1972. If anyone can help provide the sources, that would be appreciated!)

So in short, Bruce could have been a part of this evening with Dennis and the family; even after Mike split. It could have been something after a session, hey, let's go over to Dennis' and meet his new friends. Carl, Al and Brian seem a sure bet to say no. This might have been the somewhere around the time Brian was institutionalized and Carl and Al seemed dedicated to music and being with their family. Who knows what happened there? It doesn't seem like a story Bruce or anyone else would go into greater detail. No one wants to be connected to the family, even if the connection was sharing a joint, playing guitar, or having sex with someone from the Family prior to the murders. It's understandable. It just makes the history a little murkier. I am currently reading Chaos and there were a lot of people who refused to be interviewed about Tate-LaBianca. I'm curious to learn more and I'll report back with additional thoughts.

Also, that quote of Dennis is reference in Chaos, I believe. He mentioned Dennis saying that one day he'd tell the truth about Manson and write a book, but that he drowned in 1983 and that was the extent about that quote.

Fabulous work everyone, Howie, Mark, Alan, anyone else I missed. I may just be some random poster, but want to know the appreciation for your hard work over the years. I'll peruse over it all the next few days, definitely know what will fuel my morning walk tomorrow. Listening to Sunflower now; man, what a masterpiece. If Pet Sounds is Brian's masterpiece, Sunflower is The Beach Boys' masterpiece. Just wish Dennis would have been represented on the original Surf's Up album. Oh, and that Sunflower didn't bomb.  

Anyway, back to the chauffeur headquarters to smoke and listen more; with headphones like Brian would want.

Dennis was so productive during these years yet he's hardly present on Surf's Up and Holland. It's nothing short of a real shame

He had two songs on Holland, just like Brian and Alan, while everyone else had only one song on that album, so I don't feel like his work was underreprsented here. "Only with You" is a Dennis song that really works for me, much more subtle than something like "Make It Good".

I think Holland seems like there is no Dennis since he does not sing the leads on his songs. I really like all of Holland; I'm trying to pick out Dennis voice on that album. Is he doing backup vocals on Steamboat and Only With You? I actually can't tell.

Dennis' situation near the end of his life is a very sad one. We as outsiders can look on and wonder why the group didn't do enough. Mental illness and substance abuse are tricking things even for professionals to tackle. I just don't think the band and their management were able to handle it effectively. It was basically a tough love approach; get clean or you are out of the band. I can only imagine what kind of havoc Dennis caused over the years. In the Gaines book, he came across as very stubborn when it came to addressing his demons. Can you fix someone who doesn't want to be saved? Mike claimed Dennis had a death wish; I don't know I buy that, but he definitely was not in good shape. It seemed like the band was just exhausted dealing with how to handle Dennis; they had been doing that their entire lives. Dennis should never have been homeless but it seemed like even Carl and Audree were no longer going to help him out anymore. There was no excuse for Dennis Wilson to be homeless or to die the way he did, but to me, it seems like the group was content with letting Dennis be Dennis. The group was more focused on fixing Brian, probably because he's Brian Wilson, and even their efforts were not the best. It seems like there was a lot of planning behind the scenes with their management and Landy to get Brian back into him. Remember there are articles from the time claiming that Brian was 'Shanghai'd' to Hawaii. They evicted Caroline Williams from Brian's home and shut off all utilities during this time, too. Brian was obviously in bad health, but the way the group handled the transition back to Landy was very bad. This was all happening late 82, early 83; so Dennis was probably aware of some of the stuff going on. Maybe that's why he was so hesitant to avoid treatment. He saw what the band did to Brian and he didn't want any of that.

I believe Brian did have some natural resentment toward Carl for getting him back with Landy and then, years later, trying to get Landy out of Brian's life. Landy being the psychopath he was, used this resentment as a way to create a further wedge from Brian and the band/the family/etc.