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680815 Posts in 27616 Topics by 4067 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims April 25, 2024, 09:14:27 AM
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76  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 30, 2017, 02:55:29 AM
Hey, Mark,  the detailed info you provided above prompted me to get your Jan and Dean book on Amazon Kindle (Canadian version). The price keeps changing-mostly $40, then at one time $90 or so, then back to $40, then $43 yesterday and $31 today. Just downloaded it now. Looking forward to the read!

The price of the book is outrageous. I'm currently writing a biography of Jan Berry that will be published early next year. It will be more affordable than the reference book.
77  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 27, 2017, 10:18:16 PM
Would the Columbia Save For A Rainy Day have included the hi-fi Yellow Balloon and the low-fi other tracks, but in stereo? One wonders if there was any thought or attempt at re-recording the other tracks in higher fidelity.

The Columbia version of "Yellow Balloon" had been re-recorded with a better arrangement. The rest of the album was tweaked and re-mixed for stereo. Both the mono and stereo versions were released on the Sundazed compilation in 1996. The original stereo versions of what appeared on that disc would have been what Columbia released if Dean had accepted the counter proposal from Jan's attorneys and Screen Gems.
78  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 27, 2017, 02:34:35 PM
Mark, I have a few questions that have been kinda bugging me about this whole Carnival of Sound saga. If you took the time to answer, I would greatly appreciate it!

Anyways, first off, why was the decision made not to include the version of "Louisiana Man" with Dean on lead? I know that though it was started by Jan (and later finished in his own version with Ron Hicklin on lead), Dean did add a lead vocal and complete a version, which was then released as the b-side for "Like a Summer Rain." I don't see a nice new Jan & Dean hits package even coming out soon, much less a rarities or b-sides release, so it seems like Carnival of Sound would've been the place to put Dean's finished "Louisiana Man," whether as track in the album order, or at least as a bonus.


After the accident, Jan retrieved his masters from Columbia Square to continue working on them. Dean had also gone there to do the same thing, but soon found out that he did not have the legal authority to do so. All of Dean’s self-released J&D Record Co. singles and Save For A Rainy Day album (JD101 mono) were shut down by Screen Gems for breach of contract. They killed the singles and the album was dead on arrival. That’s why they never saw distribution.


Secondly, I think I remember reading in somebody's book that "Hawaii" and "Fan Tan" were actually based on music written by  Jill Gibson and I basically inferred that this meant Jan didn't actually write the music nor the lyrics. Is that true, or did Jan indeed co-write those songs? Music and/or lyrics? I'm super interested in knowing what he was capable of by this time.


Jan co-wrote all of the material, and arranged and produced it, basically using the same methods as before the accident. Jan had always worked with collaborators before the accident. The guys he worked with most, Don Altfeld and Roger Christian, were lyricists only. Jan was usually melody and arrangement first, while sometimes contributing lyrics. After the accident, it was just a really painstaking process. He had writing sessions with collaborators, and he had arranging sessions with George Tipton, Bill Stafford, and Robert Porter. Don and Jill briefly stepped in to help in early ’67, on the songwriting end. Jill was good with melody, but she never wrote songs on her own, even before the accident. She always worked with collaborators. It would make sense that she contributed melody to “Hawaii,” “Fan Tan,” and “Love and Hate.” Jan’s speech therapist Vivian Sheehan was the first one to encourage him to write “Fan Tan.”


Two last questions then, and I know these are tough ones.

First, have you ever discerned why on earth Jan wouldn't go along and let Columbia release Save For A Rainy Day and then release his stuff as well, all under the "Jan & Dean" banner? Was he just too proud to relinquish the reins? Parental advice? Bitter that he had the accident and Dean was in good shape?


Not tough at all. The story that Jan killed Dean’s Columbia release is a false narrative. Having had his self-released material shut down by Screen Gems, Dean tried once again to make a business deal with Columbia on behalf of Jan & Dean, which Dean had no authority to make. Unfortunately for Dean, all of Jan’s contracts with Screen Gems from before the accident remained active after the accident. As always, Screen Gems controlled everything on the business end—Jan’s production and songwriting contracts, J&D’s artist/recording contract, and their record label contract. Dean put Columbia in an embarrassing bind when he teamed with Don Zaccaglini to make a deal with Columbia without the legal authority to do so. Dean had also not bothered to get Jan’s signature as part of the artist agreement. Screen Gems promptly hit Columbia with a cease-and-desist order. As a result, the “Yellow Balloon” single evaporated and the Columbia version of Dean’s album never saw distribution beyond a handful of copies. Jan’s ego was always a factor. He was not used to not being fully in charge, and when you add his new expressive impairment to the mix, it was a volatile situation.


Secondly, why wasn't it Dean singing lead on at least some of Jan's post accident '60s work? Did Dean choose not to participate due to bad blood over Jan rejecting the Columbia offer? Or was Jan mad about Dean not visiting him enough after the accident? Or did it just not occur to Jan? I mean, I really like some of the Carnival of Sound stuff like "Girl, You're Blowing My Mind", "Hawaii" and "Fan Tan" and I could even see how they could've been hits in an alternate dimension, but wouldn't it have but really odd if they had hit singles as "Jan & Dean" that had neither Jan nor Dean vocally present? Maybe, maybe not.


After the Columbia debacle, Screen Gems made a concerted effort to bring both sides together, and to keep Columbia in the mix. Jan’s attorneys and Screen Gems made a productive counter offer that would have allowed the release of Save For A Rainy Day (as is, but tentatively titled Yellow Balloon), provided that Columbia would purchase Jan’s new masters—“Hawaii,” “Fan Tan,” and “Love and Hate,” which would count toward the next release. Moreover, Jan would be the producer going forward, and not Don Zaccaglini. Columbia readily agreed to that proposal—but Dean did not. Thus, Dean passed on the opportunity to have his album officially released on a major label and backed by a major music corporation. When Jan’s team and Screen Gems forged a new record deal with Warner Bros.-Seven Arts, Screen Gems insisted that Dean sign the contract in order to use the Jan & Dean name. Dean signed, and was paid via the artist contract, but did not otherwise participate going forward. The deal stipulated that Jan could record on his own, with Dean, or with a third party—but the name would be Jan & Dean regardless (as it had been before the accident).


Anyways, I've tried to get discussion going on the Jan Berry forum from time to time, but real scholarly discussion didn't seem to happen all that much, and the obsession with hoisting Jan's accomplishments over Brian's got old. Brian is awesome, and Jan was pretty great himself, though Brian has a Pet Sounds LP to his name. Enough said.


I’ve never seen anyone hoist Jan’s accomplishments over Brian’s. From my perspective, that’s a long-standing false narrative perpetuated by Beach Boys and Brian Wilson aficionados.


79  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 26, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
Who is singing lead on the songs? can you list them song by song please? thanks  Grin


The leads for "Hawaii," "Fan Tan," and "Love and Hate" were apparently composites, likely by Ron Hicklin and Glen Campbell

All of the other leads were Ron Hicklin and Tom Bahler.


CARNIVAL OF SOUND, 1967-1968 (Warner Bros.)

All vocal sessions were held at United Recording (A & B) and Western Recorders (2 & 3), except "Only A Boy" (Columbia Square)

"Tijuana" and "Yakety Yak" were recorded but were not slated for inclusion on the album.


SONGS:

"Fan Tan" — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); Glen Campbell; Ian Freebairn-Smith; Jerry Fuller; Jill Gibson; Tony Minichiello

"Hawaii" — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); Glen Campbell; Stan Farber; Jill Gibson; Tony Minichiello; Bob Zwirn; (Jan Berry is also listed on one of the contracts as a vocalist).

"Love and Hate" — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); Glen Campbell; Stan Farber; Jill Gibson; Tony Minichiello; Bob Zwirn; (Jan Berry is also listed on one of the contracts as a vocalist).

"Tijuana" — Vocalists: Glen Campbell (lead); Tony Minichiello; (Jan Berry is also listed on one of the contracts as a vocalist).

"Louisiana Man" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Tom Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon

"Stay" [pre-accident origin]  — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Tom Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon

"In the Still of the Night" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon; Davy Jones (spoken interlude)

"Yakety Yak" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Tom Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon

"Laurel and Hardy" — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Davy Jones (lead vocal demo only); Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"I Know My Mind" ["Free, Free, Free"] — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"Carnival of Sound" ["Deeper and Harder"] — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"Mulholland" ["Grasshopper," "Mysterious Things Are Happening"] — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"Girl, You're Blowing My Mind" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Glen Campbell (lead); The backing vocalists are not clear, but some combination of the people listed above.

"Only A Boy" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Jan Berry; Dean Torrence. Pre-accident vocals recorded at Columbia Square. Completed pre-accident. Augmented post-accident.


Full session details are in my book, The Jan & Dean Record.
80  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 26, 2017, 08:57:38 AM
Jan did not double any lead vocals on Carnival of Sound. I think he did a few words here and there, like "Silently" on "Love and Hate." And you can hear him speaking during the banter at the end of "Mulholland."
81  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 26, 2017, 08:52:34 AM
The "La-La-La" demo was recorded by Jan in 1968 to help demonstrate the melody for the lead vocal. It wasn't a good vocal by Jan. He was trying to show what he wanted. Andrew Sandoval included it on the album because the stellar backing track is in stereo. There is otherwise not a stereo version of "Laurel & Hardy" on the Carnival of Sound release (Rhino Handmade, 2010).

Jan could speak better than you think in 1967 and 1968. But he still couldn't sing yet.

During the April 1967 session for "Light My Fire," Jan is heard saying . . . "Well, I can play over. I can pay extra!" . . . and other stuff. His speech was halting but he was able to communicate.

In November 1967 Jan testified in court during the Paramount lawsuit that resulted from the 1965 train accident that ended Jan & Dean's feature film Easy Come, Easy Go. The transcript provides a fascinating example of someone with aphasia and verbal apraxia answering questions from authorities while under oath. Jan was hyper and disruptive during the proceedings, but he was also funny. . He would interrupt the attorneys. At one point he said: "Let me say one thing. Now, you are a lawyer, and you are a lawyer. Right? But when we go to court, you and you—wait a minute. Slowly—in court, you sit down, and you sit down, but then you fight him, and he fights you. Isn’t that right? Isn’t that right?" . . . When an attorney asked Jan if anyone yelled "Look out!" before the locomotive impact, Jan said: "Lookit, when they crash, you can’t even remember anything, or how, or who, or what. They just scream, hey, who, you don’t know. God-damn. It is not important." . . . The full transcript is something else, and hilarious in places.

So yeah . . . It wasn't always easy to converse with him, but Jan could communicate better than most people think at that stage of his recovery. He would also "play dumb" at times to get what he wanted.


82  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Jan & Dean Appriciation on: April 11, 2017, 12:56:06 PM
The film was loosely based on Paul Morantz’s 1974 Rolling Stone article about Jan and J&D. Dean and Paul became friends while Paul was writing the article, which was much more accurate than what went into the movie. Dean was heavily involved in pitching the film and what went into it. It was Dean who had dinner meetings with producer Pat Rooney and scriptwriter Dalene Young, etc. There was no other oversight on the film’s content. Mike and Bruce’s appearances were merely cameos. Bruce was still out of the band and was not acknowledged as a member of the Beach Boys. The film debuted in February 1978. Dean began making appearances with Celebration after that. And Dean’s re-recordings with Mike happened later that year.
83  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Jan & Dean Appriciation on: April 10, 2017, 11:55:36 PM
Speaking of Deadman's Curve the movie, click here:

https://youtu.be/FRrwhEF1czc?t=19m35s

Or skip ahead to 19:35 into the film to see the film showing Jan recording "Surfin'" in the studio after being inspired by a surfing outing with Dean, where Jan says "this would sound so great on tape"...cut to the studio with Jan recording the "bom, bom, dippity dippity" bass vocal track and the full song then being heard cut to various scenes.

That's a Beach Boys song. Jan & Dean had nothing to do with that song. The whole scene and montage is a complete lie and fabrication. Who approved this?

Now Mike and Bruce themselves even appeared in that film near the end...for all the historical nit-picking and fact-checking that infects this fandom, I was genuinely curious how such a blatant total rewrite of history could be allowed to stand in a biographical film, in 1977/78 especially considering Dean himself did tracking for the soundtrack, and all Beach Boys and Jan & Dean were still alive.

Money?



Nearly the entire film was fictionalized . . . not just that scene. It's not an accurate portrayal of Jan's life and career. But he was in no position or condition to help shape the narrative. Jan had nothing to do with the film's content. Dean was the main consultant.
84  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: PF Sloan on: February 14, 2017, 11:46:41 PM
Phil was great . . . one of the greatest songwriters of all time. A seriously talented guitarist and singer. I interviewed him, and corresponded with him a lot over the years. His insight on Jan Berry was really good, and really helpful.

But Phil was sometimes given to major exaggeration. He was a damaged soul, basically. He struggled with mental illness. He felt ripped off by Lou Adler, and in later years Phil did some major compensation in the story-telling department. It wasn't an across-the-board thing though. Much of what he said over the years checks out quite well.

But . . . "Kick That Little Foot Sally Ann" was not the first hit from the West Coast office of Screen Gems, as claimed in the video mentioned above. "Kick That Little Foot Sally Ann" first charted in late May 1964 and peaked at #61 in July. Screen Gems acquired Nevins-Kirshner Associates in April 1963, and that's when the West Coast office of Screen Gems was established. The same people were involved, Al Nevins and Don Kirshner (running things from New York City). The West Coast office of Nevins-Kirshner (Lou Adler) became the West Coast office of Screen Gems. "Surf City" by Jan & Dean was released in May 1963 and became one of Screen Gems' first hits from the West Coast. Jan Berry's songwriting and producing contracts with Nevins-Kirshner, and Jan & Dean's  artist contract, had been acquired by Screen Gems.

Also, Phil's claim that his voice "became Jan & Dean" is patently false. His claim that he did all the vocal parts is bogus. He did do a number of the lead falsettos, beginning with "Hey Little Freshman" in early '64, leading to "Little Old Lady" and others. But Phil's claim that Dean never sang falsetto again was false. Phil and Steve Barri did sing harmonies for Jan & Dean beginning in late 1963—a crucial part of their sound. But Jan's voice was always in the harmonies singing bass, and Dean's voice was often in the backgrounds as well.

Phil never did any lead vocals for Jan & Dean, in terms of taking Jan's part, as Phil claimed in the video. "Move Out Little Mustang" (with Phil singing lead and Jan singing bass) was a Rally-Packs track that Jan produced for Sloan and Barri on the Imperial label—as part of Jan's scheme to circumvent his obligations to Screen Gems, which backfired on him. Screen Gems sued Jan Berry and Lou Adler on that and other issues, but the case was settled out of court. Part of the fallout from that was that "Move Out Little Mustang" ended up being included on Jan & Dean's "Little Old Lady" LP in '64 . . . With the Rally-Packs release, Jan had tried to pass it off as a Dunhill production. But nope . . . it was owned by Screen Gems all along.

85  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Harpsichord Pop on: February 11, 2017, 07:08:27 AM
"Anaheim, Azusa . . . " — Jan & Dean

Also the background music on J&D's Batman LP.
86  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Jan & Dean had joined The Beach Boys? on: January 27, 2017, 06:10:56 PM
There was also some talk in 1978 that Mike and Bruce would join forces to produce a Jan Berry solo album.  I don't recall if it was speculation in the rock or fan press at that time... don't even recall where I read it.  May have been Sunshine Music or BBFUN.  Per Mark's excellent book, I believe A&M was close to releasing a solo LP from Jan... or at least a basic track line-up might have been proposed.  Mark?

An album of Jan's Ode and A&M recordings was proposed (10 tracks), but it was shelved when Jan began to focus on getting back on the road in '77 and '78 (Jan hit the road with his own Aloha band before he reunited with Dean).

I'm not aware of any album plans with Mike and Bruce, but I do know that 1978 marked the beginnings of Dean's re-recordings with Mike (after Dean's '77 re-makes with Papa Doo Run Run).
87  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Jan & Dean had joined The Beach Boys? on: January 26, 2017, 02:30:25 PM

It's my understanding that Jan and Mike Love did not get along with one another.


I'm curious, do we know any of the reasons for this, and is this more pertaining to the 60s than, say, the late 70s when they toured together again? There's the obvious, that it was another outside collaborator (albeit one where the *other* band used the collaborations), which Mike has always seemed somewhat skeptical of.

I'm curious what else could have been a beef, but I don't know how much anyone in the BBs outside of Brian had much interaction with J&D. Obviously, they did some gigs together over the years.

Was Jan pissed at the "Mike & Dean" stuff in the 80s or something?

It was in the '60s. Apparently, Jan could put the screws to Mike on an intellectual level. I suspect it was an ego thing on both sides.
88  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Jan & Dean had joined The Beach Boys? on: January 26, 2017, 01:21:53 PM
Jan played guitar and piano. This post was more about if Jan was in the group than Dean

It wouldn't have worked. But it's a moot point. Jan was under contract with Screen Gems, and the terms stipulated that he was not allowed to work officially with any other music act. (His songwriting collaborations were not affected by that stipulation).

It's my understanding that Jan and Mike Love did not get along with one another.

Murry resented Brian's collaborations with Jan (but after Brian tossed Murry, I could easily see Brian taunting his father by letting Murry think he was considering Jan for the band).

Jan was a headstrong leader for his own act. He had complete control, and worked in direct contact with Screen Gems on everything.

Jan could not have stepped into the Beach Boys and been a leader (but he could easily have played keyboards for live performances).

If anything, it would have been interesting if Jan and Brian could have collaborated more. But when you look at Brian's outside collaborators—Gary Usher, Bob Norberg, Roger Christian, Jan Berry, Tony Asher, and Van Dyke Parks—they were all short-term.

89  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Jan & Dean had joined The Beach Boys? on: January 23, 2017, 10:40:16 PM
Focusing on the production side of things

I love Brian's productions. I like listening to both as producers, and comparing and contrasting the various styles and sounds achieved while utilizing some of the same musicians.

But to my ears, the strength of Brian's tracks will always be the vocals.
90  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Jan & Dean had joined The Beach Boys? on: January 23, 2017, 10:20:56 PM

A producer who doesn't (or didn't) consistently cut hit records that sell but has great chops behind the board and a ton of talent...was that or is that a mark of success in the music biz?

I guess you would have to define success. Money? Hit records? Classic status? Jan achieved all three, but not on the overall level of the Beach Boys.

Money: His contracts with Nevins-Kirshner and Screen Gems made him a success in the business. His production contract—not counting his songwriting and artist royalties—was a significant part of his income. His three contracts together—production, songwriting, and artist—made him a wealthy fellow in the early to mid-'60s.

Hit records: More than many of his peers, but fewer than the Beach Boys.

Classic status: A few classics. "Dead Man's Curve" is in the Grammy hall of Fame . . .  but again, not as many as the Beach Boys.


91  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Jan & Dean had joined The Beach Boys? on: January 23, 2017, 09:19:30 PM
Mark -- you know how much I love and respect your work.

But knowing everything that I know about life and music  -- I stand by this:

I think it’s hysterical that Jan Berry gets lumped in with ANY of these people. That’s how marginal his output was. It’s fetish music and as far away as you can get when discussing even the worst of John Lennon and Paul McCartney. I’m all for people talking about Jan Berry (always was fascinated by the post-accident material e.g. “Natural High”) but to SERIOUSLY place him anywhere near John Lennon and Paul McCartney (or Brian Wilson, for that matter) is silly, amateur, and absolutely incorrect. I’m not saying he can’t be a favorite of yours or even THE favorite. Talk about him all you want -- but his peers were Gary Lewis and Freddie Cannon, nothing more, nothing less.

Nothing wrong with standing by convictions.


I dig Gary Lewis and Freddy Cannon, but they were not arrangers and producers signed to a major music corporation.
92  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Jan & Dean had joined The Beach Boys? on: January 23, 2017, 08:56:28 PM
That's true overall. Jan's tracks being more dense and sophisticated than Brian's in 1963 and into 1964 had no bearing on Brian's and the Beach Boys' overall trajectory.

It's not about elevating Jan above Brian or the Beatles, and no one was saying that.

Jan never considered himself a great artist. Arranging and producing were his forte, but he did it as a part-time musician who attended college and medical achool. Given the part-time status, it's a wonder they had as many hits as they did.

Jan and Brian's collaboration was huge . . . and it was Brian's only "outside" endeavor that led to success beyond the Beach Boys (an avenue and status that Brian actively sought).
93  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Jan & Dean had joined The Beach Boys? on: January 23, 2017, 02:45:24 PM
Thank you, Mark.  Do you care to give some examples of, in your opinion, some of Jan's more notable or innovative early 60's production work?

Jan co-wrote, arranged, and produced "I'm Dying to Give You My Love" for Pixie in late 1961. It's in the Girl Group genre (likely Blossoms related). It was unreleased but completely finished. It features many of the hallmarks of Jan's later arrangements and productions for Jan & Dean.
94  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Jan & Dean had joined The Beach Boys? on: January 23, 2017, 02:40:47 PM
I think if we're talking timelines, then certainly it can be asserted that Jan got to certain things before Brian did, and that Jan influenced Brian in some key respects.

But in terms of big picture, I think even as early as 1964, I don't see putting Jan on that pedestal.

Not that anyone is drawing a direct overall comparison between Jan and Brian or Lennon/McCartney, but an old post from Howie Edelson, even if directed not at this specific precise topic, is worth reading (the last paragraph mainly):

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20232.msg508150.html#msg508150

Gary Lewis and Freddy Cannon might be Howie's personal opinion of Jan Berry, but Jan was clearly above that.
95  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Jan & Dean had joined The Beach Boys? on: January 23, 2017, 12:55:03 PM
Jan Berry was literally ahead of Brian Wilson.

Jan signed with Nevins-Kirshner Associates (Brill Building, New York City) as a songwriter and producer in September 1961.

Jan began receiving label credit as an arranger on Lou Adler's productions in 1961, the year the Beach Boys were formed.

Jan also began writing, arranging, and producing for other artists in '61.

Before it was destroyed by fire in November of '61, Jan had amassed thousands of dollars' worth of professional recording equipment in his garage studio . . . and learning how to use it had put Jan ahead of the game when he began producing in the Hollywood studio system.

When Nevins-Kirshner was acquired by Screen Gems in April of '63, Jan became a staff songwriter and producer for the company (a major music corporation).

In terms of arrangement and production, Jan's tracks were much more dense and sophisticated than Brian's—with two drummers, three or more guitars, two basses, etc.—from say March of '63 through '64-ish.

The instrumentals Jan co-wrote, arranged, and produced with the Wrecking Crew were superior to the Beach Boys instrumentals over the same period.

In terms of Bones Howe and Lanky Linstrot, they were engineers only on Jan's productions, as Bones explains in detail in my book. Of course, recording engineering is an art form in itself, and Bones and Lanky were two of the best. When Bones later became a producer himself, he cited Jan's influence among his other influences.

The Beach Boys were superior vocally . . . but Brian has compared Jan to Mike Love, in terms of his ability to sing bass lines.

I don't see much value in the head-to-head comparison. For me, it's more about the timeline and proper context, and  how Jan and Brian each helped each other's artistic growth.

When they first started working together, Jan was already fully established. And writing and working with Jan gave Brian a close-up view of how the system worked.



96  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: 1986 in Music on: December 21, 2016, 02:11:34 PM
The Bangles hit it big in '86 . . . and Heart had a good ballad with "These Dreams."

In the '80s, rock 'n roll was still a thing. You still had bands with virtuoso musicians, like Van Halen and Rush . . . and I would put the Police in that category as well.
97  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Your top 10 Dennis Wilson songs on: December 16, 2016, 08:01:58 PM
1. Forever
2. River Song — (favorite solo track)
3. Little Bird
4. Rainbows
5. Farewell My Friend
6. Thoughts of You
7. All of My Love
8. Got to Know the Woman
9. All Alone
10. Under the Moonlight
98  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Jan and Dean quote by on: December 08, 2016, 07:34:13 PM
Some of this is quoted in my book . . . You'll need to read the entire Dave Marsh piece for context, but here are a few quotes that should help you with your project:

“If surf music did touch a nerve or two in the American adolescent sciata it was a ganglia of both schlock and humor. With Jan & Dean, the schlock was humor, and that’s where they fit in: if the Beatles were the head-bone of rock ‘n’ roll, then Jan & Dean were the funny-bone, as assuredly as the Rolling Stones are the crotch and Bob Dylan the heart.”

“Jan & Dean saw the innate ludicrousness of people pretending to care about surfin’ and rodding when what they really wanted (as everyone knew all along) was to get down, to play some rock and roll.”

“So in the early sixties, Jan & Dean took a tack that five years later was powerful enough to spawn a whole cult, i.e. Bonzo Dog Band and the Mothers of Invention. Iggy Stooge and Alice Cooper are in many ways the heritage of the facetiousness of Jan & Dean, for the hysteria that Ig and Alice manipulate so well was first defined as such by the torrid surf duo.”

“One by one they removed all the excuses, ripping to shreds forms like folk-rock and exposing the roots for what they were: pure and simple rock ‘n’ roll. . . . Jan & Dean were the first enemies of genre-rock (of which surf-rock was the proto-form). God bless them for that!”

“They stayed close to their roots, for the most part, and let the music carry the satire, rather than the vice-versa that has been implicit ever since in all those oh-so-overt attempts at over-hip satirical messagizing.”

“The point is, Jan & Dean understood our mythology. . . . While desirous of exploding our myth-within-a-myth (i.e. that we were really about surfing, hot-rodding, etc., when we were really trying to say that we were about rock and roll), they were consciously trying to nudge it to a higher plane. Maybe they did that, and then their time ran out.”

“So they were not only conspiratorial, they were subversive as a bitch as well.”

“The thing about Jan & Dean was, they were so GOOD at it, which made them subtle, which is a key to effective satire anyway.”

“Of all the killer albums Jan & Dean ever recorded, the A-number one most killer fucking one of them all was the famous Command Performance.”

“Sure, Jan & Dean came off as punks, but that’s all to the good because if rock ’n’ roll isn’t a medium for punks, what is it?”

“Rather than an ode to the generality of rock and roll, the T.A.M.I. Theme [“(Here They Come) From All Over the World”] was a paen to punk-rock specifics. . . . Nearly everyone on that show was punk, and a punk in the classiest mid-sixties sense.”

“What endeared Jan & Dean to their hard-core fans, I suspect, was their absolute refusal to acquire the garb of pretension that so many other rock heroes (even surf ones; you know who I mean) were swinging about like symbols of their very manhood in 1965-1967. Certainly, they seemed to be saying, we’ll sell ya Jan & Dean Little Old Lady from Pasadena Skateboards. Isn’t crassness what rock and roll is all about?”

“They understood the inherent sham that professional mythmaking is, in a way that Abbie Hoffman never will.”

SOURCE:

Dave Marsh

“An Analytical Study”
Jan & Dean Anthology
United Artists UAS-9961
1971
99  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Another book! The Jan and Dean Story by Dean Torrence. on: November 06, 2016, 09:02:14 PM

Thanks Mark. I sent you a message either here or through FB a few months ago about coming on the show to talk about your book. Love to have you on. If you like, pm me here.

Thanks Ghosty. I completely missed that. I sent you a message.
100  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Another book! The Jan and Dean Story by Dean Torrence. on: November 06, 2016, 07:27:34 PM
Dean was a guest on my radio show today (some Beach Boys discussion as well): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1XvhbHXIlE

Nice job, Ghosty.
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