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648706 Posts in 25948 Topics by 3701 Members - Latest Member: Little E. Honda July 22, 2019, 09:16:02 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Hal Blaine on: March 11, 2019, 06:09:49 PM
A huge loss . . . We knew it was coming . . . But still, it's like, WHAT? . . . The end of an era . . . Such an integral part of the soundtrack of our lives.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dean Torrence influence on Brian Wilson on: March 07, 2018, 03:28:06 AM
Mark, one thing I'm curious about is why Brian wasn't credited on Folk City, given that the melody is largely a rehash of Surf City. Have you addressed that anywhere?

It's an interesting question. "Folk City" was originally a different song called "Fred Fern," but they remade it into "Folk City." The "Two Girls For Every Boy" melody and verse melody are completely different, but the chorus melody is the same as "Surf City," though the backing harmonies in the chorus are vastly different. Jan may have discussed it with Brian. I don't know.

By October 1965 when "Folk City" was recorded, Jan and Brian had not worked together in more than a year. Their last collaboration had been "Sidewalk Surfin'," which was recorded in July and August 1964. Brian never worked long with any single outside songwriting collaborator, and his tenure with Jan fit that mold.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dean Torrence influence on Brian Wilson on: March 06, 2018, 02:40:17 PM
O.K.  On topic.  How much money...does anyone with true research material available know?...do you think Brian made off of his association with Jan and Dean?  Approximately?  A fair chunk no?  Would he have made anywhere near that amount working in tandem, in any way, with anyone else in the biz?  Jan and Dean must have been fairly good to the bottom line not just for Brian...but also for Roger and Michael.  AND...if you count Barbara Ann...for all of the 'Boys'.  A #2 hit single and a number 6 L.P. [3 in the U.K.] must generate some kind of pocket money.  I wonder how much Dean, even with his lesser degree of talent, made for his entirely nasal falsetto contribution?  There must have been some tit...for tat?


I don’t know any numbers for Brian, but here’s some insight:

By the time “Surf City” was released, Jan’s career was governed completely by Screen Gems-Columbia Music, Inc. Jan was a staff employee who ultimately answered to Don Kirshner in New York.

Consequently, every song Jan wrote or co-wrote was automatically published by Screen Gems, who also owned the master recordings. So in choosing to write songs with Jan, Brian forfeited any publishing for his efforts. But he did get a songwriting royalty.

With Brian’s original compositions for Sea of Tunes, he owned both the writer’s share and the publisher’s share. But for his compositions with Jan, Brian only got a writer’s share.

The only exception with regard to J&D was “Sidewalk Surfin’.” Because it used the previously published melody from “Catch a Wave,” Jan was legally forbidden from sharing a writing credit for the lyrics. In other words, his Screen Gems contracts stipulated that he could not have any business connection to outside companies or competitors. Thus the publishing for “Sidewalk Surfin’” went to Sea of Tunes, the original publisher of the melody. And Roger Christian got a writer’s royalty for the lyrics.

Brian’s vocal participation on J&D records was illicit and therefore unpaid—at least officially. Same for Dean’s participation on “Barbara Ann.”

With regard to Dean, he shared half of the Nevins-Kirshner/Screen Gems artist royalty with Jan (50-50). The Screen Gems songwriting contract was 100 percent Jan’s; and the Screen Gems production contract was 100 percent Jan’s.

For shows and appearances, Jan often paid Dean out of his own pocket. Jan also paid commissions to manager Lou Adler out of pocket.

Jan made a lot of personal payments. His canceled checks reveal a “who’s who” of the industry—musicians, singers, engineers, etc. He was notorious for scheduling odd hours in the studio. Consequently, his royalties were docked regularly, but he never cared. It was all about what was best for him, or convenient for his personal timetable. When the engineers worked overtime, he often paid them under the table beyond what they were due through the Union.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dean Torrence influence on Brian Wilson on: March 05, 2018, 05:24:03 PM
The best commentary from Brian Wilson comes from the actual era in question:

Jan Berry: “The chord changes . . .”

Brian Wilson: “It sounds great.”

Jan: “The chord changes are sophisticated.”

Brian: “Ya know, the bitchenest part of the whole song is that last note . . . ”

Jan: “Huh?”

Brian:Whaaaaahh!! It’s so bright! Everything comes out . . . ”

Jan: “See, I told ya.”

Brian: “I got tears in my eyes the first time I heard it.”

Jan: “I told ya you’d like it.”

Brian: “If you could get a song to sound like that all the way through . . . That would be killer.”

Brian: “It’s a fat son of a bitch.”

Jan: “[To engineer Bones Howe] An exact dual there?”

Bones Howe: “Uh-huh. As even as I can . . .”

Brian: “[To Jan] That ‘Dead Man’s Curve.’ You changed it . . . It sounds good on the radio.”

Brian: [refering to "Ride the Wild Surf"] “But fuckin’ . . . God, the lyrics! The idea behind the whole thing is so good, ya know?”


Jan Berry and Brian Wilson
Discussing the arrangement while doubling the lead vocal for "Ride the Wild Surf"
United Recording, Studio B
February 16, 1964

Dialog excerpt
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dean Torrence influence on Brian Wilson on: March 04, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
I hear a big difference in production on those two songs, regardless of Morgan or Capitol, and regardless of who produced them—a different sound using the same players (Beach Boys). But I still love the originals.

Spector was an influence, for sure, as I said. He had his own sound and style. But I would argue they weren't "Phil's musicians." I think that's one of the fallacies of modern music journalism. They were not unique to his productions. The union players pre-dated that era, as did the union itself. Jan, as an example, began working with those musicians in 1958 (Joe Lubin's productions) and was leading recording sessions with those musicians by late 1961 and early '62.

The union players in Hollywood were everyone's musicians.

Jan had a different sound than Spector, and the signature sound Jan began developing in March 1963 was dense and sophisticated, but still not the Wall of Sound.


A few comments and some questions for discussion:

The players Phil used were among hundreds in the union book. All you had to do if you wanted a drummer was check who was available and either through a contractor you'd hire or on your own, you could put in a call and hire them. Drummers alone, there were dozens if not a few hundred names for hire. Same with guitarists and whoever else. But the point with Spector is that the same basic core group of musicians he was using regularly became the same core group Brian and Jan would start using when their productions warranted those larger groups. It's no accident Hal and Earl were often the drummers, Billy, Carole, Tommy, Ray, Glen were on guitars, and the list goes on.

They were not random choices, and they were far from the only competent players available to hire. Yet both Brian and Jan seemed to be hiring the same core players as Spector was using. I don't see that as coincidence as much as a clue that they were trying to do things in their productions similar if not the same as what Phil was doing.

I still come back to the fact that for those first few years, The Beach Boys were a self-contained band who played on the records and also were the same core players you'd see at a live show. Like The Beatles, for those first few years with few exceptions the BB's and Beatles played the majority of instruments you heard because they were a band. Jan and Dean obviously were not a band, nor did they have a core backing band. So the necessity existed for Jan to hire players to play on the sessions, more than it being an aesthetic or forward-thinking choice. And when both Jan and Brian started advancing and needing more textures and instruments for what they wanted to do, they hired nearly the same players Phil had been using, where once again the union book had many others to choose from.

Mark, you also made a comment earlier about Jan copying his own parts from the score for the players, and using the "best" copyists in Hollywood when more parts needed to be extracted.

In that case, Jan wasn't doing anything that wasn't standard practice. Nearly every session where a large number of parts needed to be copied would be sent to a copy house. In the case of the artists, area, and time period we're talking about, the go-to place was run by Bob Ross (not the painter, lol). In those days the copying was done using onion skin, that's how primitive it still was. And there were writers who did that kind of grunt work for Bob Ross' copy house when they were working their way up. Among them, a young Jimmy Webb if I recall. So it wasn't as much Jan using the best because of anything other than that's how it was done. And in terms of the meticulous scores Jan would write, that was how he worked. Other producers and arrangers worked differently. It reminded me of the "Philly Soul" sound in the 70's, coming out of Philadelphia International studios. Gamble and Huff would come in with sketches and head arrangements, where they'd do what Brian would do and get the players grooving on different things and develop it that way, often no more than a chord chart with some specific hits notated. Thom Bell used to come in with a briefcase full of copied parts and a full score with every note indicated to be played. Point is, both ways worked and Philly had an amazing string of hits from Gamble/Huff and Bell in the 70's. There was no better way nor more merit or kudos to either one based on how they ran their sessions because both were charting hit after hit coming out of Philly. Some wanted each note written, others wanted to see where the group of players would take the sketch.

One more point: Earlier you mentioned Brian's productions outside the Beach Boys as not having chart success. Also, how Jan had a producer's contract under his agreement with Adler, or Liberty, or whoever it was. My question is this: If Jan had a contract as producer, did he try to produce any artists outside J&D, or was he ever contracted to do so? If he did, what was the success of Jan's productions? If it's relevant to mention how Brian's outside productions stiffed on the charts, it's relevant to ask what if anything did Jan produce outside J&D that had success in the 60's when he had such a producer contract?

That's another very specific point where I think Brian was trying to emulate Spector whose whole gig was producing a stable of artists rather than one group or entity. At the end of '63 I believe he even had a separate publishing company set up with Mike for this purpose of doing what Spector was doing with Philles records and all his productions that included publishing and songwriting. I'd suggest Brian was actually going for it and taking in outside artists and projects where he could do what Spector did and produce (and write) for a number of artists outside the Beach Boys. he put it aside but never gave it up, and that was the impetus for forming Brother at the end of '66 into '67.

Question: What and when was the first session where Jan used the Bill Putnam studios, United or Western, for his productions?



Jan’s arrangements were submitted through the union, via AFM contracts similar to the tracking sessions for musicians; and he was paid separately for his arrangements, based on the number of pages, etc.

When Jan didn’t do the copying himself, he used Vern Yocum, Roy Caton, Virgil Evans, Jerrold Immel, or Roger Farris, for the most part, with a few exceptions here and there.

Having signed with Nevins-Kirshner , Jan had begun using United by October 1961. He began leading sessions regularly at United and Western by February 1962, especially for tracks for which he received the official arranging credit, whether for J&D or other artists. That’s how he transitioned into the full-time producer’s role while Lou Adler was still nominally in charge. Jan took the top spot in late ’62.

He worked also worked in the other studios in town, like Conway, Audio Arts, Radio Recorders, Sound Recorders, etc.

Earl Palmer was J&D’s sole drummer until late 1962. In ’61 and ’62 the musicians Jan worked with included guys like Ernie Freeman, Rene Hall, Tommy Allsup, Jerry Allsion, Red Callender, Gene Estes, etc. Many different players.

Jan was primarily a self-produced artist, which was rare in that era. It was just coming into play. The production companies signed Jan to arrange and produce records for Jan & Dean plus anyone else they might assign to him on a limited basis.

Jan didn’t have much outside success as a producer. But thanks to his production contract he was paid handsomely as a producer, whether the songs were hit records or not. The same went for his arrangements—a separate stream of income. He produced “Judy Loves Me” by Johnny Crawford, which barely cracked the Top 100 at #95. And he produced “Perfidia” by the Matadors, which had success overseas, hitting #1 in the Philippines.

Some of his productions remained unreleased, like the Pixie track, the songs he did for Ronnie Height, and some “Girl Group” Blossoms-related stuff. But the material, and in some cases the demos, still exists.

Jan got outside arranging credits for releases by Deane Hawley (’62), Sonny Curtis (’63), and Johnny Crawford (’63).

But Jan had a little outside success as a songwriter with chart records by Billy Ward & His Dominoes (1958); the Angels (1963); the Rip Chords (1964); Johnny Crawford (1964); and Ronny and the Daytonas (1965). And Jan’s composition “Bucket T” was on the Who’s #1 EP Ready Steady Who.

Jan had some interesting outside writing credits that didn’t chart, such as “Cherish My Love” by the Glens (1960, a Jan & Arnie era composition), “Just For Tonight” by Judy & Jill (’63), and “He Don’t Love Me,” a B-side for Shelley Fabares (’64), and others.

I mentioned Brian’s outside stuff because the prevailing opinion in Beach Boys Fandom is that Jan brought nothing to the table. So by that logic, all of Brian’s outside compositions for the artists I mentioned should have been instant hit records—but they were not.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dean Torrence influence on Brian Wilson on: March 03, 2018, 11:16:45 PM
I hear a big difference in production on those two songs, regardless of Morgan or Capitol, and regardless of who produced them—a different sound using the same players (Beach Boys). But I still love the originals.

Spector was an influence, for sure, as I said. He had his own sound and style. But I would argue they weren't "Phil's musicians." I think that's one of the fallacies of modern music journalism. They were not unique to his productions. The union players pre-dated that era, as did the union itself. Jan, as an example, began working with those musicians in 1958 (Joe Lubin's productions) and was leading recording sessions with those musicians by late 1961 and early '62.

The union players in Hollywood were everyone's musicians.

Jan had a different sound than Spector, and the signature sound Jan began developing in March 1963 was dense and sophisticated, but still not the Wall of Sound.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dean Torrence influence on Brian Wilson on: March 03, 2018, 07:07:15 PM
Thanks for that info, Mark. (I recall reading that it was "A Beginning from an End", fwiw).

"A Beginning from an End," tracked as "Miss You," was in the works at the time, but not on the "Barbara Ann" date.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dean Torrence influence on Brian Wilson on: March 03, 2018, 03:30:54 PM
Maybe this has already been mentioned in this thread, but another part of the "Barbara Ann" story is that Jan was recording "You Really Know How to Hurt a Guy"  and Dean couldn't stand the song, so he went down the hall and joined the Beach Boys session for a few minutes.  Mark can correct me if I'm mis-remembering this.

That's the way Dean told it, six years after the event in 1971, but he was mistaken.

"You Really Know How To Hurt A Guy" was recorded in April 1965 and exited the charts on July 17.

Jan's September 23, 1965, session at Western 3 (8:00 p.m.-Midnight) was for the songs "Everyone's Gone to the Moon," "Let Me Be," and "Where Were You When I Needed You." And it was a tracking session, not vocals, so I'm not sure why Dean was there.

The Beach Boys session that night was from 9:00 p.m.-Midnight, and  12:30-3:30 a.m. in Western 2.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dean Torrence influence on Brian Wilson on: March 03, 2018, 12:52:26 PM
To Mark A. Moore:

Replying to your post, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the opinions and facts I'm going to post. I'm going from memory on some of this, so if anything needs to be corrected in terms of timeline and specifics, please do.

From what I remember, Jan and Dean first played with the Beach Boys at a live gig near Hawthorne. They saw how the crowd was getting into the surfing songs and the overall kind of music the BB's were playing, and at that gig they had the Beach Boys back them in their own set, or after the set...whatever the case, the Beach Boys backed J&D at that gig and this inspired Jan especially in terms of the whole surfing theme because of the audience's reaction.

Fast forward to a new J&D album. Lou Adler I believe pushed the surfing themes even more, and the subsequent album was "Jan And Dean Take Linda Surfin".




I think one of the *key* points in what we're discussing in terms of influence if not the "chicken or the egg" scenario can be heard in the grooves of that album.

If we listen to that album as a whole, it's essentially Jan and Dean covering popular hits of the day, along with the "title" track Linda which was written in the 1940's. "Linda" if anything sounds like Jan and Lou going for the same sound Crewe and Gaudio were doing on 4 Seasons records. Not surprisingly they also cover a 4 Seasons track on the album, again alongside other hits like Mr. Bass Man, Rhythm Of The Rain, etc.

Jan was basically doing what they call "soundalikes" in the business. There wasn't much of a personal sonic imprint on any of those cuts, in fact at least half sound like...soundalike cover versions that aren't different from the original hits they were covering. The production overall is pretty much a meat-and-potatoes affair, and on some tracks it's almost too thin and the vocals are even a little pitchy. Definitely no Spector-like Wall Of Sound, or dense backing tracks. Again, it's a pretty basic, workingman-like production.

But - and here's where I think we need to look in terms of the influence angle - Jan covers both Surfin and Surfin Safari, which of course were Beach Boys songs that had been released the previous year.

Is Jan doing something other than copying the sounds Brian was producing for Beach Boys records? I say no, in fact he's copying the BB's originals almost verbatim.

So wouldn't that suggest Jan was actually being influenced in a production sense by Brian if he was cutting records that were carbon copies more or less of what Brian was doing for the Beach Boys' originals? If it were the other way around, the Beach Boys on those first two albums and related singles would have had something that had for lack of a better term the "Jan Berry Sound", and it simply isn't there. It's the other way around, where Jan was copying producers like Brian, Crewe/Gaudio, etc on what was the current album and project that was on the front burner when Brian and Jan started work on Surf City.

So Lou Adler gets Brian and Jan together in a writing capacity, and among other tunes Brian plays Surfin USA (which he did not give to J&D because it was already slated for a BB release) and Surf City, which of course became the first and most fruitful of their collaboration.

It was on Surf City that I think we hear *that sound*, and I wonder how much of it was Jan and how much of it was Jan going for a Spector/Levine "Wall Of Sound". Of course Spector and his Wall were on fire at that time, after He's A Rebel hit #1 in 1962, he was on an amazing roll on the singles charts.

So couldn't it be also a case where Jan, like he did with copying the production sounds on hits cut by Brian, Crewe/Gaudio, etc for the Linda album went for the Spector sound at that time just as Brian would do on his own records?

It would suggest Spector was perhaps the keystone influence on both Jan and Brian, which acknowledges both Brian being influenced by Jan after Jan copied Brian's production style on those covers from the Linda album. I think it was more of a mutual influence kind of deal rather than an overt case of Brian "stealing" ideas or sounds from Jan as sadly still gets reported and written in some circles.

I'd say Jan copying Brian on those covers before he tried to go for that Spector-like Wall Of Sound might show that the influence came out in the grooves of the records as evidence Jan was taking cues from Brian. Because unless I'm missing something in the timeline of the discography, nothing Jan did had *that sound* which Brian supposedly copied from Jan until after Surf City when they first worked together. And they were both taking cues from Spector, who was among the hottest producers in the business at this time with his Wall Of Sound.



I don’t think Brian “stole” or “copied” anything from Jan. And I don’t think Brian would have tried to sound like Jan’s productions. Jan helped show Brian how to get around the business, and equipment techniques, ping-ponging, the Wrecking Crew, etc. Engineer Bones Howe talks about that.

Jan was certainly influenced by Spector and Crewe/Gaudio.

I don’t think Jan copied Brian’s production sound for “Surfin’” and “Surfin’ Safari.” For one thing, Brian didn’t really produce those records. But to my ear, those two Beach Boys tracks have more of a garage surf vibe to them—“Surfin’ Safari” in particular—some raw power there. (I wish they had recorded “Surfin’” in its original key). I love the originals, but Jan’s productions of those two songs are more polished than the Beach Boys versions. But at the same time, they’re faithful covers of the originals.

Most of the basic tracks for Take Linda Surfin’ were recorded over two days in February of ’63—nothing special there. The “Surfin’” and “Surfin’s Safari” session was held in early March with Brian, Carl, Dennis, and David Marks. The album was released in mid-April. That was Jan’s first album production (still with Nevins-Kirshner at that time), and it was a journeyman compilation. It sounds rushed to me.

The single “Linda” (plus the album’s other covers) was Jan’s first official production for Jan & Dean, and even though he added brass and woodwinds, it’s pretty thin. I’ve always been bugged by it, because it wasn’t on par with Jan’s production of the unreleased “I’m Dying To Give You My Love” (1961)—different genre though, “Girl Group” vs. duo I guess.

In March 1963 the sessions for “Surf City” and “Gonna Hustle You” marked the beginning of what would become Jan’s signature production sound which, for the rhythm tracks, typically included two drummers, three guitars (including Danelectro six-string bass guitar), two basses (sometimes one), and piano. Brass, woodwinds, strings, and auxiliary percussion were of course overdubbed. This dense approach to tracking was similar to Spector, but with Jan creating his own sound.

"Surf City" has a vastly different sound, track-wise, than "Surfin' USA."

You don’t hear anything like that in Brian’s Beach Boys productions in ’63 or ’64. Brian’s backing tracks remained basic by comparison, with his main focus being on their amazing vocals, but still with nice instrumentation, etc.

Jan took it a step further with “Honolulu Lulu” and the Surf City album in ’63—some nice horn and string arrangements on that LP. Listen to this backing track for “Honolulu Lulu,” without the vocals or “Hawaiian guitar” overdubs.

“Honolulu Lulu” (mp3)— Western, June 13, 1963. Musicians: Jan Berry (leader), Hal Blaine (drums), Earl Palmer (drums), Glen Campbell (guitar); Billy Strange (guitar); Bill Pitman (Danelectro six-string bass guitar); Ray Pohlman (bass)

You just don’t hear this kind of tracking on Beach Boys records in ’63 or ’64. Jan and Brian just had different approaches to what they were trying to accomplish, in terms of production.

Jan didn’t really hit his production stride until the Drag City LP in November 1963. That was the first one that featured a majority of Jan’s original compositions and strong non-single album cuts. Drag City, Dead Man’s Curve / The New Girl In School, Ride the Wild Surf, and The Little Old Lady from Pasadena are the big four albums for J&D, in terms of overall quality.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dean Torrence influence on Brian Wilson on: March 03, 2018, 06:18:39 AM
The amount of hatred spewed here truly amuses me.

No one has to like the music. There’s certainly nothing wrong with disliking the music. But the context for what was happening in that era with regard to Jan Berry is crucial—and that context is sorely lacking on this board and among Beach Boys fans in general.

Early on, Jan had two main mentors in Joe Lubin and Lou Adler (and Adler had only recently learned the ropes himself while working for Keen Records and Bumps Blackwell). And it was Lubin who set Jan on his path within the Hollywood studio system. From day one with Jan & Arnie in 1958 Jan worked with and observed the best R&B musicians in the business—Earl Palmer, Rene Hall, Plas Johnson, Ray Johnson, Ernie Freeman, and others. And they would all go on to record for Jan & Dean.

In September 1961, at the age of 20, Jan was signed as both a songwriter and record producer to a major New York City production company, Nevins-Kirshner Associates (Al Nevins and Don Kirshner). A month later, using the best musicians in Hollywood, Jan produced a stellar “Girl Group” track for Pixie called “I’m Dying To Give You My Love.” He co-wrote, arranged, and produced the song. Jan wrote the music while Don Altfeld contributed to the lyrics. And while the track remained unreleased, “I’m Dying To Give You My Love” featured many of the arrangement and production hallmarks that would become commonplace on Jan’s later productions for Jan & Dean. Ever wonder what inspired the Intro to “Dead Man’s Curve”? Wonder no more . . . it was one of Jan’s own compositions from 1961.

As a staff songwriter and producer for Nevins-Kirshner, Jan received generous advances against royalties, and he began getting official label credit as an arranger for Lou Adler’s productions, both for Jan & Dean and for outside artists. Nevins-Kirshner brokered Jan & Dean’s contract with Liberty Records.

By that time Jan’s home studio at Eleven-Eleven Linda Flora Drive in Bel Air was decked out with thousands of dollars’ worth of recording equipment, and he had become comfortable working in the Hollywood studio system. In December 1962, at the age of 21, Jan took over the production reins for Jan & Dean, and assumed complete creative control of the act.

In the spring of 1963 Nevins-Kirshner was acquired by Screen Gems-Columbia Music. Screen Gems absorbed and renewed all three of Jan’s contracts, and that’s when he really started making money. Jan’s production royalty alone was substantial. Screen Gems was obviously tied to the film industry, and they employed Jan to write music for the films Ride the Wild Surf and The New Interns (both by Columbia Pictures). The company also employed Jan to write, arrange and produce music for other artists in the Screen Gems family—outside of Jan & Dean.

It’s not a contest, folks. It’s not about being equal or unequal. These are cold, hard facts. Brian Wilson was indeed influenced by Jan as a record producer, and as an industry insider who could help Brian learn the ropes of the system—a fact which takes nothing away from Brian. Take Brian’s word for it.

Both Jan and Brian were influenced by Phil Spector. Jan and Spector began their careers in the same year, 1958, and Jan’s first hit preceded Spector’s by about four months. Brian observed Spector in the studio from a distance, for the most part. Brian was never a member of Spector’s inner circle. But Jan and Brian were friends, and they spent time with each other in the studio. Jan even included Brian as a paid musician on a few sessions for Jan & Dean tracks. It’s documented.


Unlike Jan, Brian was not signed to a major entertainment company as a producer. In fighting Capitol Records for production autonomy, Brian had to soak up all he could in his quest to officially take the production reins from the likes of Nick Venet.

Another thing . . . Roger Christian never left Jan Berry. They were close friends, and Roger worked far more with Jan than he ever did with Brian. Roger co-wrote “You Really Know How To Hurt A Guy” with Jan and Jill Gibson in 1965. And Jan and Roger wrote together throughout the 1970s and into the 1980s.

Roger was not a musician and contributed lyrics only. When Jan wrote songs with Roger Christian and Don Altfeld, Jan wrote the music while the others contributed words.

Lou Adler was the one who brought Jan and Brian together officially as songwriters—and by working with Jan Brian automatically forfeited any publishing, because Jan’s Screen Gems contracts forbade it. But Brian got a nice songwriting royalty.

Jan really admired Brian’s talents, and he learned a lot from Brian. They made a strong songwriting team, but Jan also co-wrote a string of Top-30 hits without Brian.

Most of Jan’s original music scores from the ‘60s still exist. They are remarkable documents that preserve his authentic arrangements. The bass lines in the scores are the bass lines you hear on the records. Obviously the same is true for brass, woodwinds, and strings. The drum parts are also written out note-for-note. Jan even served as his own copyist at times, generating the individual charts for the musicians from his master score. In other cases he hired the best copyists in Hollywood to generate the charts from the scores.

It’s a given that Jan didn’t have the natural gifts that Brian had. But Jan brought his own formidable strengths to their collaborative efforts. Brian’s collaborations with Jan were Brian’s only successful venture outside of the Beach Boys. Brian’s compositions and productions for Bob & Sheri, the Honeys, Sharon Marie, the Survivors, the Castells, Paul Petersen, and Glen Campbell did not chart—and they were all released on major labels (Capitol and Warner Bros.) between 1962 and 1965, when Brian was at the height of his powers. So Jan clearly brought something to the table . . . (and no, Murry Wilson didn’t have the industry power to single-handedly kill all of Brian’s outside releases).

Jan & Dean had a short career. And with the main guy, Jan Berry, doing it part-time, it’s a wonder they had as many hits as they did. The Beatles and the Beach Boys were much bigger during that time, and it goes without saying that they’re more important acts from today’s standpoint. But in their time and place, ’58 to ’66, Jan & Dean were a successful Rock ‘n Roll act—something Bruce Johnston never hesitates to point out.

“Dead Man’s Curve” is in the Grammy Hall of Fame. Jan & Dean have their place in the grand scheme of it all.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Website I created on: January 22, 2018, 09:21:11 AM
Looks great so far, Ian !
12  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Original Jan Berry Mixes on: December 24, 2017, 09:50:15 AM
The Kindle version of my book The Jan & Dean Record is currently on sale again for $3.99. Great time to pick it up and get the details on Jan's studio sessions. The publisher charges an ungodly amount for both the print and electronic versions of the book, so it's a great value while it lasts. The electronic version is not abridged.

Kindle Version:
https://www.amazon.com/Jan-Dean-Record-Chronology-Performances-ebook/dp/B01D53H6BE/

Happy Holidays to all,

Mark M.
13  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan & Dean's FILET OF SOUL 2017 on: September 09, 2017, 09:44:17 PM
incredible article-really informative-I look forward to your biography!

Thanks Ian.
14  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan & Dean's FILET OF SOUL 2017 on: September 08, 2017, 01:13:18 PM
Here's a new article I wrote that supplements the liner notes for Jan & Dean's newly released "Filet of Soul Redux," providing documentable historical context for Jan Berry on the business end, as it related to the album.

Corporate Soul: Jan Berry’s Quest for Business Autonomy in 1966
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rolling Stone: The Salvation of Brian Wilson on: August 31, 2017, 08:55:39 AM
Fantastic article. Brian sounds more like himself in this one. His best published interview in a long time.
16  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: May 02, 2017, 10:37:25 PM

I guess I kinda worded my question a bit weirdly. What I really meant to ask is why didn't Dean's version of "Louisiana Man" warrant inclusion as a bonus track on the Carnival of Sound set? As I said, very rarely is there ever a new even semi-high profile Jan and Dean release, and it woulda made sense to get this previously released track collected on a digital release.

The idea with the Carnival of Sound archival release was to stick with material that was actually part of the sessions that generated the tracks that would have been included on the album.

Dean's recordings were illicit and wholly separate, and had nothing to do with Carnival. Dean used Jan's pre-accident track for "Louisiana Man" without permission and in violation of the contracts with Screen Gems. It would have been inappropriate to include it on the Rhino Handmade release documenting Carnival of Sound.

That said, I'm hoping we'll get to do a Jan & Dean box set soon.
17  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 30, 2017, 01:29:54 PM
Just intensely read your details on Jan's accident. Wow! Lots of info I never knew, such as Jan's car hitting the curb first and then going out of control. I knew about stupid writers saying three people died in Jan's car, always made me angry.

Yeah, myths and misinformation about Jan's car accident have been perpetuated for years.

It's all from a poorly-worded article in the Times, yes?  Something along the lines of "Singer injured, three others killed in LA accidents" - people not noticing the plural.  I'm paraphrasing.

Yes, and the location of the accident was misreported for decades.
18  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 30, 2017, 01:28:40 PM
Hey Mark, I payed $80 for the book, which I was HAPPY to do!! I read the book everyday! I have learned so much from it. It is both fun and informational. After you do Jan's biography, what do you think about releasing Jan's charts, if you had permission? There are so many J&D songs I'd love to play, but most of the chords and such on the internet are inaccurate.

As I mentioned on the other forum, that's something I'll be working on. Not just the chords, but all authentic parts for bass, drums, percussion, brass, woodwinds, and strings.
19  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 30, 2017, 03:01:35 AM
Just intensely read your details on Jan's accident. Wow! Lots of info I never knew, such as Jan's car hitting the curb first and then going out of control. I knew about stupid writers saying three people died in Jan's car, always made me angry.

Yeah, myths and misinformation about Jan's car accident have been perpetuated for years.
20  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 30, 2017, 02:55:29 AM
Hey, Mark,  the detailed info you provided above prompted me to get your Jan and Dean book on Amazon Kindle (Canadian version). The price keeps changing-mostly $40, then at one time $90 or so, then back to $40, then $43 yesterday and $31 today. Just downloaded it now. Looking forward to the read!

The price of the book is outrageous. I'm currently writing a biography of Jan Berry that will be published early next year. It will be more affordable than the reference book.
21  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 27, 2017, 10:18:16 PM
Would the Columbia Save For A Rainy Day have included the hi-fi Yellow Balloon and the low-fi other tracks, but in stereo? One wonders if there was any thought or attempt at re-recording the other tracks in higher fidelity.

The Columbia version of "Yellow Balloon" had been re-recorded with a better arrangement. The rest of the album was tweaked and re-mixed for stereo. Both the mono and stereo versions were released on the Sundazed compilation in 1996. The original stereo versions of what appeared on that disc would have been what Columbia released if Dean had accepted the counter proposal from Jan's attorneys and Screen Gems.
22  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 27, 2017, 02:34:35 PM
Mark, I have a few questions that have been kinda bugging me about this whole Carnival of Sound saga. If you took the time to answer, I would greatly appreciate it!

Anyways, first off, why was the decision made not to include the version of "Louisiana Man" with Dean on lead? I know that though it was started by Jan (and later finished in his own version with Ron Hicklin on lead), Dean did add a lead vocal and complete a version, which was then released as the b-side for "Like a Summer Rain." I don't see a nice new Jan & Dean hits package even coming out soon, much less a rarities or b-sides release, so it seems like Carnival of Sound would've been the place to put Dean's finished "Louisiana Man," whether as track in the album order, or at least as a bonus.


After the accident, Jan retrieved his masters from Columbia Square to continue working on them. Dean had also gone there to do the same thing, but soon found out that he did not have the legal authority to do so. All of Dean’s self-released J&D Record Co. singles and Save For A Rainy Day album (JD101 mono) were shut down by Screen Gems for breach of contract. They killed the singles and the album was dead on arrival. That’s why they never saw distribution.


Secondly, I think I remember reading in somebody's book that "Hawaii" and "Fan Tan" were actually based on music written by  Jill Gibson and I basically inferred that this meant Jan didn't actually write the music nor the lyrics. Is that true, or did Jan indeed co-write those songs? Music and/or lyrics? I'm super interested in knowing what he was capable of by this time.


Jan co-wrote all of the material, and arranged and produced it, basically using the same methods as before the accident. Jan had always worked with collaborators before the accident. The guys he worked with most, Don Altfeld and Roger Christian, were lyricists only. Jan was usually melody and arrangement first, while sometimes contributing lyrics. After the accident, it was just a really painstaking process. He had writing sessions with collaborators, and he had arranging sessions with George Tipton, Bill Stafford, and Robert Porter. Don and Jill briefly stepped in to help in early ’67, on the songwriting end. Jill was good with melody, but she never wrote songs on her own, even before the accident. She always worked with collaborators. It would make sense that she contributed melody to “Hawaii,” “Fan Tan,” and “Love and Hate.” Jan’s speech therapist Vivian Sheehan was the first one to encourage him to write “Fan Tan.”


Two last questions then, and I know these are tough ones.

First, have you ever discerned why on earth Jan wouldn't go along and let Columbia release Save For A Rainy Day and then release his stuff as well, all under the "Jan & Dean" banner? Was he just too proud to relinquish the reins? Parental advice? Bitter that he had the accident and Dean was in good shape?


Not tough at all. The story that Jan killed Dean’s Columbia release is a false narrative. Having had his self-released material shut down by Screen Gems, Dean tried once again to make a business deal with Columbia on behalf of Jan & Dean, which Dean had no authority to make. Unfortunately for Dean, all of Jan’s contracts with Screen Gems from before the accident remained active after the accident. As always, Screen Gems controlled everything on the business end—Jan’s production and songwriting contracts, J&D’s artist/recording contract, and their record label contract. Dean put Columbia in an embarrassing bind when he teamed with Don Zaccaglini to make a deal with Columbia without the legal authority to do so. Dean had also not bothered to get Jan’s signature as part of the artist agreement. Screen Gems promptly hit Columbia with a cease-and-desist order. As a result, the “Yellow Balloon” single evaporated and the Columbia version of Dean’s album never saw distribution beyond a handful of copies. Jan’s ego was always a factor. He was not used to not being fully in charge, and when you add his new expressive impairment to the mix, it was a volatile situation.


Secondly, why wasn't it Dean singing lead on at least some of Jan's post accident '60s work? Did Dean choose not to participate due to bad blood over Jan rejecting the Columbia offer? Or was Jan mad about Dean not visiting him enough after the accident? Or did it just not occur to Jan? I mean, I really like some of the Carnival of Sound stuff like "Girl, You're Blowing My Mind", "Hawaii" and "Fan Tan" and I could even see how they could've been hits in an alternate dimension, but wouldn't it have but really odd if they had hit singles as "Jan & Dean" that had neither Jan nor Dean vocally present? Maybe, maybe not.


After the Columbia debacle, Screen Gems made a concerted effort to bring both sides together, and to keep Columbia in the mix. Jan’s attorneys and Screen Gems made a productive counter offer that would have allowed the release of Save For A Rainy Day (as is, but tentatively titled Yellow Balloon), provided that Columbia would purchase Jan’s new masters—“Hawaii,” “Fan Tan,” and “Love and Hate,” which would count toward the next release. Moreover, Jan would be the producer going forward, and not Don Zaccaglini. Columbia readily agreed to that proposal—but Dean did not. Thus, Dean passed on the opportunity to have his album officially released on a major label and backed by a major music corporation. When Jan’s team and Screen Gems forged a new record deal with Warner Bros.-Seven Arts, Screen Gems insisted that Dean sign the contract in order to use the Jan & Dean name. Dean signed, and was paid via the artist contract, but did not otherwise participate going forward. The deal stipulated that Jan could record on his own, with Dean, or with a third party—but the name would be Jan & Dean regardless (as it had been before the accident).


Anyways, I've tried to get discussion going on the Jan Berry forum from time to time, but real scholarly discussion didn't seem to happen all that much, and the obsession with hoisting Jan's accomplishments over Brian's got old. Brian is awesome, and Jan was pretty great himself, though Brian has a Pet Sounds LP to his name. Enough said.


I’ve never seen anyone hoist Jan’s accomplishments over Brian’s. From my perspective, that’s a long-standing false narrative perpetuated by Beach Boys and Brian Wilson aficionados.


23  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 26, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
Who is singing lead on the songs? can you list them song by song please? thanks  Grin


The leads for "Hawaii," "Fan Tan," and "Love and Hate" were apparently composites, likely by Ron Hicklin and Glen Campbell

All of the other leads were Ron Hicklin and Tom Bahler.


CARNIVAL OF SOUND, 1967-1968 (Warner Bros.)

All vocal sessions were held at United Recording (A & B) and Western Recorders (2 & 3), except "Only A Boy" (Columbia Square)

"Tijuana" and "Yakety Yak" were recorded but were not slated for inclusion on the album.


SONGS:

"Fan Tan" — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); Glen Campbell; Ian Freebairn-Smith; Jerry Fuller; Jill Gibson; Tony Minichiello

"Hawaii" — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); Glen Campbell; Stan Farber; Jill Gibson; Tony Minichiello; Bob Zwirn; (Jan Berry is also listed on one of the contracts as a vocalist).

"Love and Hate" — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); Glen Campbell; Stan Farber; Jill Gibson; Tony Minichiello; Bob Zwirn; (Jan Berry is also listed on one of the contracts as a vocalist).

"Tijuana" — Vocalists: Glen Campbell (lead); Tony Minichiello; (Jan Berry is also listed on one of the contracts as a vocalist).

"Louisiana Man" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Tom Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon

"Stay" [pre-accident origin]  — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Tom Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon

"In the Still of the Night" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon; Davy Jones (spoken interlude)

"Yakety Yak" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Tom Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon

"Laurel and Hardy" — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Davy Jones (lead vocal demo only); Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"I Know My Mind" ["Free, Free, Free"] — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"Carnival of Sound" ["Deeper and Harder"] — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"Mulholland" ["Grasshopper," "Mysterious Things Are Happening"] — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"Girl, You're Blowing My Mind" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Glen Campbell (lead); The backing vocalists are not clear, but some combination of the people listed above.

"Only A Boy" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Jan Berry; Dean Torrence. Pre-accident vocals recorded at Columbia Square. Completed pre-accident. Augmented post-accident.


Full session details are in my book, The Jan & Dean Record.
24  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 26, 2017, 08:57:38 AM
Jan did not double any lead vocals on Carnival of Sound. I think he did a few words here and there, like "Silently" on "Love and Hate." And you can hear him speaking during the banter at the end of "Mulholland."
25  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused on: April 26, 2017, 08:52:34 AM
The "La-La-La" demo was recorded by Jan in 1968 to help demonstrate the melody for the lead vocal. It wasn't a good vocal by Jan. He was trying to show what he wanted. Andrew Sandoval included it on the album because the stellar backing track is in stereo. There is otherwise not a stereo version of "Laurel & Hardy" on the Carnival of Sound release (Rhino Handmade, 2010).

Jan could speak better than you think in 1967 and 1968. But he still couldn't sing yet.

During the April 1967 session for "Light My Fire," Jan is heard saying . . . "Well, I can play over. I can pay extra!" . . . and other stuff. His speech was halting but he was able to communicate.

In November 1967 Jan testified in court during the Paramount lawsuit that resulted from the 1965 train accident that ended Jan & Dean's feature film Easy Come, Easy Go. The transcript provides a fascinating example of someone with aphasia and verbal apraxia answering questions from authorities while under oath. Jan was hyper and disruptive during the proceedings, but he was also funny. . He would interrupt the attorneys. At one point he said: "Let me say one thing. Now, you are a lawyer, and you are a lawyer. Right? But when we go to court, you and you—wait a minute. Slowly—in court, you sit down, and you sit down, but then you fight him, and he fights you. Isn’t that right? Isn’t that right?" . . . When an attorney asked Jan if anyone yelled "Look out!" before the locomotive impact, Jan said: "Lookit, when they crash, you can’t even remember anything, or how, or who, or what. They just scream, hey, who, you don’t know. God-damn. It is not important." . . . The full transcript is something else, and hilarious in places.

So yeah . . . It wasn't always easy to converse with him, but Jan could communicate better than most people think at that stage of his recovery. He would also "play dumb" at times to get what he wanted.


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