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680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 11:28:25 AM
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276  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Did Mike, Al, and/or Bruce ever attend one of Brian's SMiLE shows? on: July 10, 2011, 03:11:17 AM
Can't remember hearing anything about it, but I'd imagine they'd have been curious to hear it. I'm especially curious about pre-BWPS shows.
277  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Top questions you'd like answered about SMiLE on: July 06, 2011, 07:52:21 PM
What the hell, dude?

Did I say something wrong?
278  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Top questions you'd like answered about SMiLE on: July 06, 2011, 07:35:25 PM
I've seen a lot of complaints about the interviews and articles on SMiLE recently, and wondered if we couldn't put together a list of our top 10 questions. Who knows, maybe some intrepid reporter would see them and take a stab at it.

Make a post of your ONE TOP QUESTION and at the end of the week I'll make a poll of them, and we can vote it out.

No need to argue on this thread, just throw in your piece and we can argue when the poll results are clear.

279  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Upcoming BW interview in Village Voice (June 8) on: June 07, 2011, 03:52:23 PM
It's up. http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-06-08/music/brian-wilson-s-songs/

... or at least something resembling an interview is.
280  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: June 07, 2011, 03:50:06 PM
In the Prayer rehearsals/sessions, does anybody know what's said at about 3:30? My best read of it is, "I have to go to _______. I swear to God" followed by a "What?"
281  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Your personal SMiLE mix on: May 17, 2011, 05:13:46 PM
FUN3,
That looks like a really interesting Side 1. Curious what you were aiming for with it.
282  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Previously released material on The Smile Sessions? on: May 17, 2011, 04:02:16 PM
Yeah, it's fine to leave it off if you're doing a personal mix or "as Brian intended". If you're trying to put out an "as it would have been released in 66/67", than it's tougher to justify. I imagine a lot of people put it on because 1) there's not an overabundance of completed material for SMiLE, so it helps fill it out 2) it does have a lot in common in terms of modular production style, and musical themes 3) they like it.
283  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Your personal SMiLE mix on: May 13, 2011, 03:39:33 PM
So here's the mix I'm planning to put together. It's not a traditional mix, but I think it's going to work really well. My main goal was to have it make sense/feel complete/feel like the modular symphony that it was meant to be.

(Prayer)

1. Good Vibrations

2. Wind Chimes [based on Vosse's description]
- GV Box version: up to the end of the verses
- Meant for You: just the vocal tag that fades out
- GV Box version: the chorus through the end

3. Vega-Tables
- GV Box: up until "Mom and dad say ..."
- GV Box: "Do A Lot" chant - the fuller one at the end
- GV Box: back in where the first "Do A Lot" ends "da-da-da" through "I burst into laughter"
- Demo: "Tripped on a cornucopia"
- GV Box: "Bop-bop-bop-bop Doo-doo..." through "the name of your, your favorite vega-table"
- Vega-tables Tag

4. Home on the Range
- Old Master Painter
- You Were My Sunshine (w/ vocals)
- Cabbinessence: "Home on the Range" (verse 1)
- "With Me Tonight" (slow version)
- Cabinessence: "Home on the Range" (verse 2
- "With Me Tonight" (fast version) - Fade out

5. The Iron Horse
- Do You Like Worms: "Bicycle Rider ... to the Church of the American Indian"
- "Woo Woo" from before "Under Arrest" on "Heroes & Villains"
- Cabinessence: "Who Ran the Iron Horse" 1st Chorus
- Do You Like Worms: "Ribbon of concrete ... to the Church of the American Indian"
- Cabinessence: Who Ran the Iron Horse (truck driving man) through the end including Grand Coolie and Over and Over

6. Barnyard
- "Soul Made Beautiful"
- I'm in Great Shape
- Barnyard
- Holidays (One verse & "Whisperin"-style outro)

7. Wonderful
- GV Box: The first verse through first "one,one wonderful" and the first piano bridge
- "He Gives Speeches": through "led him to discover"
- GV Box: "She knew how ... boy bumped into her one, one wonderful" and second piano bridge
- "He Gives Speeches": "Silken hair ... shadowed on the ceiling"
- GV Box: "All fall down ... and thank god for one, one wonderful"
- I Wanna Be Around/Wood Shop

8. Heroes & Villains
"Pt. 1"
- Cantina version: through the "doo doo" scat, stopping before the cantina section
- GV Box, Heroes & Villains Sections: Gee/How I Love My Girl/"Doo Doo Doo Heroes & Villains" chorus (medium speed)
- Cantina version: Cantina section through "You're under arrest"
- GV Box, Heroes & Villains Sections: "Doo Doo Doo Heroes & Villains" chorus (slow speed)
- Cantina vesion: Tape Explosion
"Pt. 2"
- GV Box, Heroes & Villains Intro
- Cantina version: "My children were raised ... still got the jive to survive with the heroes and villains"
- Single version: "La la la la ... and it's all an affair of my life with the heroes and villains"
- "Flutter Tone"
- Single version: "I've been in this town ... I'm all right by the heroes and --"
- GV Box, Heroes & Villains Sections: "Doo Doo Doo Heroes & Villains" chorus (fast speed)
- "Country Western Theme" aka "Prelude to Fade"
- "Bridge to Indians"
- "Barnshine"

9. Do You Like Worms?
- Welcome
- GV Box [with "Bicycle Rider" sections excised] fading out on "Hawaiian Chant"

10. Elements
- Fire with SFX
- Sunflower Cool, Cool Water: "Water Chant"
- Air Dada

11. Child is the Father of the Man
- with R&B sounding version as the tag

12. Surf's Up
- Brian's solo demo

(Prayer)

Here's the thinking behind the choices:

Prayer: Up top and at the end because there are quotes from people saying both, and on BWPS it's on both, and who's ever had too much of it?

Good Vibrations: I think it's best to get it out early and move on. Plus, you've already peaked interest with Prayer so you know something big is in store.

Wind Chimes: I think this does the best job of making you smile early on, the surprise of the chorus is just so fun and let's you know how much of a treat you're in for.

Vega-Tables: Keeping the smiling going. And in my mind it celebrates healthy living, with drugs as a part of that. To me the whole song sounds a bit like a retort to Murray Wilson. After all there's this from Nolan's California Saga article:

Nolan: What did you think when you read Brian had experimented with LSD?
Murray Wilson: I said, 'You know, Brian, one thing God gives you is a brain, if you play with it and destroy it, you're dead, you're a vegetable.''

It's not hard for me to imagine, Murray calling Brian's friends a bunch of vegetables, and then Brian and Van writing a song to say, yeah we're vegetables, and we LOVE vegetables.

Home on the Range: I opted to split up "Cabinessence". As good as they SOUND together, they don't make too much SENSE together and there's evidence that at one point they were their own songs. As a song for Dennis to sing as "funky cat up in the mountains singing", it made sense to combine it with OMP/YAMS as Old Master Painter's lyrics start "The old master painter from the far away hills" and Dennis sings YAMS. I threw "With Me Tonight" in because it needs a big chorus and it fits the theme. Story wise, this is where the "Smile journey" starts. A guy singing to his girl promising all that America has to offer.

The Iron Horse: A meditation on traveling across the country and in a way "tripping".

Barnyard: Getting to the home on the range and having fun. "Holidays" is in here as the "chicken ballet".

Wonderful: Incorporated "He gives speeches". They're just too similar lyrically to separate, and without it, Wonderful is a weirdly simplistic, albeit beautiful, song in an otherwise breathtakingly complicated album that was too be a modular symphony. I know some people don't like He Gives Speeches, I do. "I Wanna Be Around/Workshop" seems like a fitting tag to this story of young love, though it's probably the piece I'm most up in the air about.

Heroes & Villains: I'm a believer of the two part single. I prefer not to use the Smiley Version chorus, especially since there's already plenty of chorus's to play with.

Do You Like Worms: As a journey, this is the capper. We've just left the Old West town, hence throwing "Welcome" in up top and has the Indians behind them as they head to the Sandwich Isles/Hawaii. I don't really understand how it can be a kick off to the "journey".

Elements:  Fire, Water, Air. The end of the American Journey theme and entry into something more spiritual and metaphysical.

Child is the Father of the Man: I imagine that this was kind of a reworking of Look (the only substantial piece I think I left off).

Surf's Up: After all the complexity there's something really great about Brian's solo version at the end.

284  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Catbirdman's List: Questions, Answers, Speculation on: May 11, 2011, 10:02:53 PM
Here's a way to reassemble the Vosse Wind Chimes mix referred to by this: "He did a great deal on it with blending vocal harmonies using the 8 track, getting things happening with voices that he had not done before ... and since they recorded it in bits and pieces, there were several natural breaks in the song ... by recording everybody and doing the song straight through, and going back to the tape and eliminating voices, he had this little section where voices sounded like little percussion instruments - because he took everything out and would only let one little thing come in at a time, so suddenly there was this break and it was funny, but it worked so well that it built up the rhythm and made the change in such a way that all I can say is he found a new way to make musical changes in a song."

Wind Chimes (verse) up to where the big chorus would normally come in, then ... (and I'm super excited by this cause I know you're all gonna love it) ...
Meant for You (vocal tag), that's right, the percussive little vocal thing that comes in right after the harmonized "meant for you", all the way through to the fade out then ...
Wind Chimes (chorus) the big chorus that has the same rhythm.

(Excuse the cockiness, I'm just having fun)
285  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: May 11, 2011, 08:26:15 PM
In Frank Holmes SMiLE art for "Do You Like Worms", what does the sign on the smoking rock island say?
286  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Holidays as part of Barnyard Suite? on: May 11, 2011, 04:23:51 PM
In Jules Siegel's "Goodbye Surfing, Hello God" his description of one of the songs is "civilized chickens bobbed up and down in a tiny ballet of comic barnyard melody". I think it's a stretch to think of the Barnyard's music as any sort of ballet, but perhaps the "Chickens do their number" verse was to be followed by Holidays, which actually sounds quite a bit like a ballet number in its intro (Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy for instance). I know it's usually thought of as a nautical piece, and it definitely ended up with the pirate lyrics on BWPS, but I think it's worth considering that a chicken ballet may have been one of its uses along the way.
287  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / What would Who Ran The Iron Horse and Home on the Range have sounded like? on: May 09, 2011, 04:14:11 PM
So according to Vosse and session sheets, the "Who Ran the Iron Horse" and "Home on the Range" sections of Cabinessence were originally different songs.



My stab at it would be:

Who Ran the Iron Horse
- Welcome
- Bicycle Rider
- Who Ran the Iron Horse
- Rock Roll Plymouth Rock (not sure about this, but I like the idea of it being about the expansion over land after Plymouth Rock "rolls over")
- Ribbon of Concrete (fits nicely with the following ...)
- Who Ran the Iron Horse (with Truck Drivin' Man)
- Grand Coulie
- Over and Over

I'm considering using this to kick-off a SMiLE mix followed by Heroes & Villains (crow cries followed by the Crows - Gee intro is kind of neat)

Home on the Range
- Old Master Painter ("from the faraway hills" aka "funky cat up in the mountains")
- You Were My Sunshine
- Home on the Range (after the sunshine is taken away, "Light the lamp and fire mellow"
- With Me Tonight - faster version (I don't know about this, but it still sounds good to go to a big sound after Home on the Range)
- Home on the Range ("Want to watch your windblown facing")
- With Me Tonight - slower version
- Barnshine? (works well with With Me Tonight, and supposedly used to go with OMP/YAMS)

I'd love to hear other ideas.
288  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: May 09, 2011, 03:34:07 PM
I just noticed that the pattern on the ground of the SMiLE cover matches the shirts the boys are wearing in the studio pics in the booklet.
289  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Mike Vosse 1969 interview from Fusion on: May 07, 2011, 10:40:17 PM
Found one: http://www.thebeachboys.ch/Forum/viewtopic.php?p=4249
290  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Were the sections of The Elements ever enumerated? on: May 07, 2011, 09:53:35 AM
Back to what we were talking about ...

Why were The Elements part of SMiLE anyway? What does that have to do with America?

Good question.
What even inspired Brian to do songs about the elements? Was it just a lark? Maybe you can provide some quotes about the elements from some books Brian read.

It seems like the elements are most closely connected with Brian's new age beliefs. Each astrological sign falls under one of the four elements. Is that possibly where Brian was coming from? What's really interesting is that Brian chose to focus on the negative aspect of fire. I think many approaches to the elements are respectful, recognizing the potential for each element to be not only destructive but also positive and creative. After all everything in the universe is made up, and depends on the four elements. Brian's version of fire is really purely negative, showcasing only the destructive aspect of fire. I really wonder where he got that from.

I was always think of SMiLE as half "American Gothic Trip" and half "Teenage Symphony to God". The Elements seem to fall on both sides of the fence (as other tracks) -- Fire being referred to as Mrs. O'Leary's Cow fits neatly into the Americana theme and into a celebration of the natural world (and presumably God's creation of it).

In reference to the astrological relationship to the Elements -- I don't think I really go along with it, but presuming Vega-Tables was a part of The Elements at some point, "Vega" is the second brightest star -- "Star"-Tables = Astrology? I don't think it mounts to much, but maybe it'll mean something to you.
291  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Were the sections of The Elements ever enumerated? on: May 06, 2011, 11:46:30 AM
Come on guys, keep it to PMs. I love what both of you bring to the table (I've lurked for a long time), but the sniping you do at each other does nothing other than bring down otherwise useful threads.

I don't think any of us need you to defend us against the other and we'd probably all be best off if you just ignored each others posts at this point.
292  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Where does the rejected Cabinessence text belong? on: May 06, 2011, 08:46:15 AM
I don't think it's totally fair to judge SMILE lyrics to be "trash bin" material based on a fragment without the context of melody. What if we didn't have a recording of "Surf's Up", and only had the lyrics:

"Carriage across the fog-two-step to
lamplight cellar tune.

The laughs come hard
in Auld Lang Syne.

The glass was raised, the fired-roast.
The fullness of the wine.
A dim last toasting.
While at Port, adieu or die."

There's not an obvious way to sing that and you might say, "oh, those are trash lyrics", because it's not totally clear what they're about, but it turns out they're one of the most beautiful parts of the whole SMILE project.

I certainly agree that more was recorded for SMILE than would have been used, but for those of us trying to reconstruct it, we're in the unique position of needing to reconsider every piece we have.

Now keeping in mind that there's session sheet evidence saying that "Look" and "Child is Father of the Man" had lead vocals put down, the lyrics of which have never turned up, I think it's worth considering the idea that these "extra" "Cabinessence" lyrics that don't thematically fit in with either the "Home on the Range" (A funky cat singing to some chick in the mountains) or "Who Ran the Iron Horse" (A meditation on sweeping industrial changes) sections that comprise it might be those long-lost lyrics.

Not saying it's right, just worth considering.
293  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Where does the rejected Cabinessence text belong? on: May 06, 2011, 12:39:37 AM
Seems to me these lyrics fit pretty darn well over "Look" and "Child is Father of the Man". Also it seems that those two tracks are AWFULLY similar, and I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that "Look" was redone as "Child is Father of the Man" (Both start with similar dark pianos and go into faster driving rhythms and also feature short breaks between sections -- Look has the Rag piece -- CIFOTM) (of course I also wouldn't be surprised to find I was completely wrong)

Here's how I'd graft the lyrics onto CIFOTM:

The "verses" go right over the dark piano (in fact there's more than enough time). Then you have that bass part that you can put the "Doobie doo, doobie doo, or not doobie" over with no problem. And then you're into the chorus!

Anyone else hear it?
294  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Your personal SMiLE mix on: May 05, 2011, 11:53:40 PM
Oh man! "H&V Intro" in "Barnyard Suite" is brilliant. Feels like a "duh" moment for me.

295  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Mike Vosse 1969 interview from Fusion on: May 05, 2011, 11:10:30 PM
That link to the interview is dead. Any chance of a repost or a PM? Thanks.
296  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: 1971 Tom Nolan Rolling Stone article (The Beach Boys: A California Saga) on: May 05, 2011, 10:42:48 PM
I'm interested in this one too, if anyone wants to pay it forward ...
297  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Were the sections of The Elements ever enumerated? on: May 05, 2011, 08:40:11 PM
Clearly, there was Fire (based on the labeling of the tapes). I've read the quote from Brian about Air being an instrumental piano piece. There's Frank Holmes drawing that seems to indicate Vega-Tables as part of The Elements (though it also seems that was already out of "The Elements" by the time the booklet was printed, since the tracklist had them separate). And then there's the "Water Chant" which would appear to be water.

But are there quotes that nail down what "The Elements" was supposed to consist of? Like did Brian ever say, "it's going to be Fire, Earth, Wind, and Water", or, "there are four elements", or, "one of the elements is earth"?

I'm not claiming it was never stated, just want to nail down things where possible. As it stands now, it seems to me that "Earth" got its own track and the best version of "The Elements" you could put together (based on evidence) would be "Fire" "Water", and "Air".
298  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / How Do You Pronounce "I Love to Say Da-da/Da Da/Dada"? on: April 14, 2011, 04:35:29 PM
Is it dada as in Dadaism? Or as in daddy?

I've seen it written different ways, but wasn't sure what to glean from it.

If it's as in daddy perhaps there's a relation to the "Mamamama" section from "Wonderful".
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