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644618 Posts in 25772 Topics by 3670 Members - Latest Member: Love_To_Say_Dada March 21, 2019, 01:11:29 AM
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1  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: R. I. P. Dick Dale on: March 17, 2019, 02:25:35 PM
And you'll never hear surf music again.

RIP Dick Dale
2  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Personal sh*t and beach boys (a little) on: March 14, 2019, 04:40:06 AM
This is terrible to hear, Emily. I'm so sorry for everything you and your family are going through. It is good to have an outlet to discuss these things, as you say. Please feel free to continue "dumping" information here if you want.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Hal Blaine on: March 12, 2019, 04:04:17 AM
RIP Hal. You provided the beat for the 60s.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Weirdest Photos Of Mike Love You Can Find on: March 06, 2019, 10:16:19 AM


Dining Companion: Mike, be careful. Later, you might regret eating so much.

Mike: My only deep personal regrets about eating are about how much my cousins ate.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 21, 2019, 10:13:32 AM
If someone wants to see the band that has been continuously on the road for 5 decades, it's because of Mike Love. There, I've proved you wrong.

But surely there is a difference between saying that "Because of Mike Love, people have been able to see the band for five decades" vs. saying "Because of Mike Love, people have wanted to see the band for five decades." Do you not see a distinction there?
6  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Peter Tork died! on: February 21, 2019, 09:57:48 AM
Yes, I had listened to Micky on Gilbert Gottfried's podcast and his tone when discussing Peter made me thing that something was definitely going on.

Love The Monkees - Peter was a valuable part of the team, both on the TV show and when they started to active record their own music.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rare stuff on Brian's instagram on: February 20, 2019, 07:41:23 AM
Was there something going on with this song where if you mailed Brian a special request, he'd personalize a version for you?
8  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: The Beatles on: February 20, 2019, 07:38:10 AM
"Yesterday, everyone knew The Beatles. Today, only Jack remembers their songs. He’s about to become a very big deal. From Academy Award®-winning director Danny Boyle (Slumdog Millionaire, Trainspotting, 28 Days Later) and Richard Curtis, the Oscar-nominated screenwriter of Four Weddings and a Funeral, Love Actually and Notting Hill, comes a rock-n-roll comedy about music, dreams, friendship, and the long and winding road that leads to the love of your life."

https://www.yesterdaymovie.com/

It's an interesting concept - and I'm immediately more interested than I was in the Across The Universe travesty.

That said, with Richard Curtis as the writer, I don't have high hopes. He's ... fine but also remarkably shmaltzy and very middle-of-the-road. I know he's a big Beatles fan but he's also become a so-so screenwriter. As a massive Beatles fan myself, I will see it, but I don't think it'll end up being a huge favourite.
9  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smilers Who Make Music / Re: New Music on: February 15, 2019, 06:52:24 AM
My album is officially ready. If you get a chance, please give it a listen and let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

https://soundcloud.com/user-877915657/sets/the-never-project-7
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beatles Vs. the Beach Boys on: February 13, 2019, 01:14:57 PM
I don't think HT&E/YSBIM is anywhere near the case of "My Sweet Lord"/"He's So Fine". In the case of the latter, you have the same exact three-note melody being sung over essentially the same two-chord motif (and there are further similarities as well).

Yes. In fact, if I may be so bold, I agree with Lennon that Harrison's use of He's So Fine was not subconscious at all but quite intentional.

Yeah, I think it was a court that invoked the odd term "subconscious plagiarism" in that case.

I don't think Harrison set out to write a remake of "He's So Fine", so I suppose one could argue it was partially unintended. I think he had the influence in the back of his head, and there's a point at which if you riff exactly on the same melody line on top of the same chord sequence, it doesn't matter whether it was intentional or not.

I suppose the "Stay With Me/I Won't Back Down" situation from a few years ago was somewhat similar. The "Stay With Me" writers all claimed they had never heard "I Won't Back Down" (which seems far-fetched to me; or indicative of a pretty narrow breadth of knowledge of not-ancient pop music), but I have no problem believing that they didn't sit down intending to write a remake of "I Won't Back Down", or to sample that song. But again, same melody over the same chord sequence, so it doesn't matter.

The closest I can think of that the Beach Boys and Beatles ever came to "ripping" each others' song off would probably be "Girl Don't Tell Me", and even then it's not similar enough to warrant any songwriting credit changes. It's like a really good Rutles song.

This is all a matter of guessing, of course, but I think that George was even more intentional than that. It wouldn't have been the only time - the riff of If I Needed Someone is outright taken from The Byrds' Bells of Rhymney. Lyrics from The Inner Light and All Things Must Pass are pretty much word-for-word taken from other sources and uncredited. I don't criticize Harrison for this incidentally - and furthermore his hero Bob Dylan did this constantly, and still does.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beatles Vs. the Beach Boys on: February 13, 2019, 08:37:57 AM
I don't think HT&E/YSBIM is anywhere near the case of "My Sweet Lord"/"He's So Fine". In the case of the latter, you have the same exact three-note melody being sung over essentially the same two-chord motif (and there are further similarities as well).

Yes. In fact, if I may be so bold, I agree with Lennon that Harrison's use of He's So Fine was not subconscious at all but quite intentional.
12  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: New Politics Thread 2018 on: February 13, 2019, 07:16:56 AM
With the talk increasing about the Democratic nominee for 2020, I really do hope that Sanders makes a run for it and does not get squeezed out the way he was in 2016. I also really hope that Joe Biden does not run.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beatles Vs. the Beach Boys on: February 12, 2019, 07:17:27 PM
Pet Sounds came out in mid-May, of course. Plenty of time for Paul to give the album several listens.

Possibly but I don't know what the lapse was between US and UK release dates in those days. John and Paul attend the private Pet Sounds listening party the day after Pet Sounds is released in the US, which suggests that the album hadn't been released yet. It's actually possible that Paul hadn't heard the music again after that night before writing the song.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beatles Vs. the Beach Boys on: February 12, 2019, 07:08:36 PM

Wondering if John or Paul had any reaction to Good Vibrations as they never came up with anything quite as inventive as that. It was like a double barreled cannon with Pet Sounds and then GV right behind it. Strawberry Fields was very good but it wasn't on the same level whatsoever as GV which was a complete game changer at the time.

I know that Paul has said that it didn't leave the same kind of impression on him as Pet Sounds did. I'm unaware of any of the others commenting on it.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 12, 2019, 09:10:26 AM
I remember the last shot in one of my favorite movies, "Papillion" (sp) where Steve McQueen is floating away from Devil's island on a raft of coconuts, something like that, and he says jubilantly, defiantly, and almost triumphantly, "I'm still here."

There's been a lot strange things in this thread but for me the top two are,

1. That a published author is uncertain how to spell the name of one of his favourite movies
2. That he doesn't check the correct spelling, which would take about 10 seconds on Google, before posting it
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beatles Vs. the Beach Boys on: February 12, 2019, 08:56:08 AM
I agree.

One other thing I will suggest - I do believe it has been overstated that Paul was the only Beach Boys-loving Beatle. George had Let Him Run Wild in his jukebox (along with California Girls though he made it clear that he only had the single for LHRW). There are accounts of John loving both The Little Girl I Once Knew and Pet Sounds as well.

However, I would acknowledge that if there was any Beatle who would use the Beach Boys as an inspiration, it would be Paul. But Paul would use others' music in a way that was quite different than John. John would have no problem with directly lifting - You Can't Do That, I Feel Fine, Run For Your Life, Come Together all directly take from Hitch Hike, Watch Your Step, Baby Let's Play House, and You Can't Catch Me. There are other examples too that I haven't confirmed but to name one, I am positively certain that the intro Revolution is based on Pee Wee Crayton's Do Unto Others. George did similar things. Both ended up being sued for this sort of thing.

Paul was a bit more subtle than this - You Won't See Me is inspired by It's The Same Old Song; Good Day Sunshine is inspired by Daydream. But Paul transforms the inspiration so much that you can barely hear it. As far as I know, he's never been accused of/sued for plagiarism. I can't say I particularly find John's way of doing things worse than Paul's. I am merely pointing out that they both had such different ways of drawing inspiration that I don't think it is easy to ever accuse McCartney of stealing.

John also dipped into Ketty Lester's LOVE LETTERS for GOD and I DIG A PONY.

I'm not sure I hear it in Pony but it's definitely there in God. I wasn't thinking of John's solo work but, yes, there are explicit references there too. I think Working Class Hero is definitely inspired by Masters of War by Dylan. Isolation takes from Oh, I Apologize, the B-side to Barrett Strong's Money. And, of course, Happy XMas (War is Over) is essentially a re-making of the folk song Stewball.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beatles Vs. the Beach Boys on: February 12, 2019, 07:31:48 AM
This is true. But I might also add that I don't think any of The Beatles were albums-people. Yes, they bought albums - lots of them. But I think at the end of the day, they were mostly fans of the single. This may have been especially true for John, who admits several times that his attention-span did not allow him to spend much more time on anything other than a single. Paul probably spent a bit more time with some albums, but I don't think many - some Dylan LPs, Pet Sounds, etc. But at the end of the day, I would imagine that even Paul would be more prepared to make a favourite songs list than a favourite albums list. For that reason alone, I think there just weren't many bands/artists that The Beatles would devour every bit music they made.

That said, I do think "You're So Good To Me" was an influence. Every time Paul talks about "We were inspired by the Beach Boys harmonies," he then proceeds to go into the "You're So Good To Me" background vocal. Now it's quite possible that The Beatles knew this song specifically because of the single Sloop John B (released in March of 1966) or perhaps they had heard the Summer Days album, which might explain the the background vocals on Rubber Soul (You Won't See Me, Nowhere Man, Girl, etc.).
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beatles Vs. the Beach Boys on: February 12, 2019, 07:04:43 AM
I agree.

One other thing I will suggest - I do believe it has been overstated that Paul was the only Beach Boys-loving Beatle. George had Let Him Run Wild in his jukebox (along with California Girls though he made it clear that he only had the single for LHRW). There are accounts of John loving both The Little Girl I Once Knew and Pet Sounds as well.

However, I would acknowledge that if there was any Beatle who would use the Beach Boys as an inspiration, it would be Paul. But Paul would use others' music in a way that was quite different than John. John would have no problem with directly lifting - You Can't Do That, I Feel Fine, Run For Your Life, Come Together all directly take from Hitch Hike, Watch Your Step, Baby Let's Play House, and You Can't Catch Me. There are other examples too that I haven't confirmed but to name one, I am positively certain that the intro Revolution is based on Pee Wee Crayton's Do Unto Others. George did similar things. Both ended up being sued for this sort of thing.

Paul was a bit more subtle than this - You Won't See Me is inspired by It's The Same Old Song; Good Day Sunshine is inspired by Daydream. But Paul transforms the inspiration so much that you can barely hear it. As far as I know, he's never been accused of/sued for plagiarism. I can't say I particularly find John's way of doing things worse than Paul's. I am merely pointing out that they both had such different ways of drawing inspiration that I don't think it is easy to ever accuse McCartney of stealing.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beatles Vs. the Beach Boys on: February 12, 2019, 06:42:36 AM
Yes I don't hear YSBIM in HT&E either. EDIT: He has suggested in an interview that it's only the intro that is inspired by The Beach Boys. I can see potentially the "To lead a better life" opening bit as being inspired by the opening bit on YSBIM. But beyond that, I don't see much of a connection.

That said, I'm more inclined to believe the argument that Paul wrote the song in late May/early June of 1966, after the May 17th listening party of Pet Sounds. To me the May 17th listening party/June 14th recording makes more sense than Paul writing the song pre-March 1965 and then sitting on it for over a year (maybe even a year and a half) before recording it.

EDIT: In one of the Stern interviews, McCartney seemed to be under the impression that Revolver was before Rubber Soul. If he's been under the impression for a while, it would stand to reason that he might place the HT&E demo story around the Help! period.
20  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smilers Who Make Music / Re: New Music on: February 11, 2019, 06:05:42 AM
Thanks so much, SB!
21  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smilers Who Make Music / Re: New Music on: February 11, 2019, 05:03:34 AM
Hi everyone,

I am about ready to put out a new album. In the mean time, I have put up three songs from it online. Would love to hear your thoughts if you have a chance. Thanks.

Mod Night: https://youtu.be/YreCuwZ5BFc

Honey Flower Girl: https://youtu.be/XJi5RX4d3HY

and my favourite, When The Morning Comes: https://youtu.be/m8cQpy-McRo

Three excellent songs there, Choc. I partlcularly liked "Mod Night" and "WTMC". Good luck with the album!

I'll link these two tracks across the road together with your Soundcloud page. Wink

Thanks so much, JK! I appreciate the listens and the kind words AND the linking!
22  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smilers Who Make Music / New Music on: February 11, 2019, 04:24:46 AM
Hi everyone,

I am about ready to put out a new album. In the mean time, I have put up three songs from it online. Would love to hear your thoughts if you have a chance. Thanks.

Mod Night: https://youtu.be/YreCuwZ5BFc

Honey Flower Girl: https://youtu.be/XJi5RX4d3HY

and my favourite, When The Morning Comes: https://youtu.be/m8cQpy-McRo
23  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: The Who on: February 06, 2019, 07:29:41 AM
Good succinct Tommy!

I can see taking out Christmas and Sally Simpson. Christmas doesn't really do much plot wise and those back-up vocals don't quite work well (and normally I think Townshend does pretty interesting things with the back-up singing). Sally Simpson does work better as a piece in the story (though it doesn't alter anything to leave it out) but for me it's a longer song than it needs to be. And, yes, I would have to imagine that any truncated version of Tommy would have to remove the Underture (even The Who themselves never played it in their "full" rendition of the album).

For me, though, I am quite partial to It's A Boy/1921 and Welcome (also a song they never played) so I would personally include that on mine - maybe replacing Cousin Kevin (which is important to the story but unsettling though not as much as Uncle Ernie which I am not sad to see go from your version) and hmm... Sensation? Hard to say for sure as I like that one too.

Overall, though, this would be a great album as you present it.

Thanks! Obviously it's so darn subjective. Funnily, it was "Underture" that made my ears prick up when listening to Tommy for the first time in (I think) 1971.

Both the album and the Ken Russell film seem very dark to me--I don't know if that's the general feeing. Like all the really heavy stuff happens at night.  Grin

I haven't seen the movie in a very long and to be honest I'm not sure if I've ever sat through the whole thing at once. I remember feeling very let down by the film when I saw it though.
24  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: White Album - Single Album on: February 06, 2019, 07:28:18 AM
Definitely a tough one but this is what I'm going for at the moment:

1.   Back in the USSR
2.   Dear Prudence
3.   Glass Onion
4.   Ob-la-di Ob-la-da
5.   While My Guitar Gently Weeps
6.   I Will
7.   Happiness is a Warm Gun

8.   Revolution
9.   Blackbird
10.   Savoy Truffle
11.   Helter Skelter
12.   Julia
13.   Mother Nature’s Son
14.   Good Night
25  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: The Who on: February 05, 2019, 07:49:29 PM
Yes, I'd be curious to see it.

Here you go, Choc. I posted this at Smiley on June 2015. It all goes to show how important it is to post things on more than one forum--both my original "hobby" forum and PSF have died since then. Smokin

Side One:
1. Overture
2. Amazing Journey
3. Sparks
4. The Hawker
5. Cousin Kevin
6. The Acid Queen

Side Two:
1. Pinball Wizard
2. Go To The Mirror
3. Tommy Can You Hear Me
4. Smash The Mirror
5. Sensation
6. I'm Free
7. We're Not Gonna Take It

Bonus track on the CD version:
Underture

Good succinct Tommy!

I can see taking out Christmas and Sally Simpson. Christmas doesn't really do much plot wise and those back-up vocals don't quite work well (and normally I think Townshend does pretty interesting things with the back-up singing). Sally Simpson does work better as a piece in the story (though it doesn't alter anything to leave it out) but for me it's a longer song than it needs to be. And, yes, I would have to imagine that any truncated version of Tommy would have to remove the Underture (even The Who themselves never played it in their "full" rendition of the album).

For me, though, I am quite partial to It's A Boy/1921 and Welcome (also a song they never played) so I would personally include that on mine - maybe replacing Cousin Kevin (which is important to the story but unsettling though not as much as Uncle Ernie which I am not sad to see go from your version) and hmm... Sensation? Hard to say for sure as I like that one too.

Overall, though, this would be a great album as you present it.
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