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680755 Posts in 27615 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims April 20, 2024, 12:28:34 PM
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3951  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys shoes? on: April 17, 2008, 04:35:42 AM
This is an odd question but, does anyone know what kind of shoes the Beach Boys wore? We all know the Beatles wore "Beatle boots" but what about the Beach Boys? In their early photos it looks like they're usually wearing some sort of leather loafers, and in their later photos it looks like Bruce might be wearing Keds and it looks like Brian was particular to Adidas during the 70s. Can anyone elaborate on this?

In '64 they were all wearing the Beatle boots too.


And some of them had Beatle hair...no wait, Dennis had his own hair...
3952  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1967's SMiLE on LP? on: April 16, 2008, 10:36:10 AM
Preparing to invest in an original SMiLE LP and wondering if someone could comment on the sound quality/song versions for the Sea of Tunes LP001 recording? 

Any details on other 1967 SMiLE LP's in circulation are also be appreciated.

Thanks!

Might as well buy some swampland while you're at it...
3953  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's thoughts on So Tough & Holland on: April 16, 2008, 10:35:08 AM
Ummm...every vinyl copy of "Holland" I've heard has those exact same drop-outs, including an original issue with the EP picture sleeve...

Another Warner/Reprise LP with the same problem is the 1975 Fleetwood Mac album...cut one, "Monday Morning"...
3954  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's thoughts on So Tough & Holland on: April 14, 2008, 06:46:29 PM
In the December 1981 San Carlos hotel room clandestine "interview", Brian was asked what his favorite Beach Boys album was...and he replied by naming not one, but two albums...take a wild guess. 

 Razz
3955  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: new comp announced - June 10 - U.S. Singles on: April 13, 2008, 09:40:58 AM
For a big name to do the Anthology style video - would Scorsese be interested?  He did the Band, Dylan and now the Stones - wouldn't it be nice (no pun intended) if he could add the Beach Boys to that list?  He's a Spector fan (I remember Be My Baby in Mean Streets) - any indication he likes the Beach Boys?

He put "Sail On Sailor" in "The Departed" (which coincidentally I just watched last night).  He also seemed very appreciative of Brian when the two of them were inducted into the Kennedy Center Honors this past fall.
3956  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1978 gigs & sessions now live on 10452 on: April 13, 2008, 09:07:47 AM
Anybody who knows of missing shows-let me know. I just know that there were a few more in June and August...They are hard to find sometimes

It might be worth pointing out that Brian was absent from most or all of the August shows, until the shows they played with Jan & Dean starting in Michigan.  He was definitely absent from the Columbia, MD show.
3957  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: new comp announced - June 10 - U.S. Singles on: April 13, 2008, 09:04:52 AM
POB Legacy edition = some brand new music that nobody outside the people working on it have ever heard.

BBs US Singles box = songs that most of us have many times over, albeit some in new mixes. 

Seems a no brainer:  do whatever I can to buy POB/Bambu the day it comes out (or bribe someone on the docks to get it the night before), and buy the Singles box the following payday.
3958  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1978 gigs & sessions now live on 10452 on: April 12, 2008, 12:10:12 PM
Soundcastle is a studio in the Silverlake area of LA.

I think Brian may have done some tracking for his 1988 album there...

Indeed he did, but I'd never heard of it 'til the time of Brian's sessions in '87/'88...
but a quick google brings me to StudioExpresso.com's spotlight on the studio, which reveals it was in fact opened in 1967, and one of their clients listed is "Beach Boys".  So there!  Another studio that didn't make it into the inner sleeve credits of "LA Light" (another being Studio 55). 

Shargi-La in Malibu is another one I'd read mentioned in late '78 but never knew what was recorded there...now I do..."I'm Beggin' You Please", which due to the nature of it being an incomplete piano/vocal demo, I'd always asssumed was a home recording...but Alan oh Alan...is the Shangri-La version a more complete track?

3959  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: good vibrations alternate on: April 12, 2008, 10:23:04 AM
Alright, Cam Mott, here you go...but just remember I haven't updated this in a few years, so certain things like the dates of the vocal sessions are lacking...oh yeah, and it's actually three separate essays:

*****************************************************************************
FIRST ESSAY - analysis of the finished record:

First and Second Verses - Gold Star, 2/17/66.  The very first tracking session, which actually commenced at 11:30 that night and continued 'til 3:00am the morning of 2/18.  Highlights from this session, as well as the master take's stereo backing track, appear in the Pet Sounds box set from Capitol (on Disc Two).  The two most prominent instruments, Fender bass and Hammond organ, are played here by Ray Pohlman and Larry Knechtel, respectively.  Lyle Ritz plays the upright bass, and Hal Blaine is on drums.  Cal Harris is the engineer.

First, Second and Third Choruses - Western, 6/2/66.  The AFM sheet for this date lists the song title as "Inspiration", but the tape box says "Good Vibrations".  It sounds as if further overdubbing was done at a later date, with more instruments layered on top (i.e. Theremin and percussion - probably tambourine - added on 6/12 at Western).  Carl Wilson is on Fender bass, Don Randi on electric harpsichord, and Hal Blaine is once again the drummer.

First Bridge - Western, 5/4/66.  Al de Lory on tack piano, Ray Polhman on Fender bass, Jimmy Bond on upright bass, Hal Blaine on drums, Jim Gordon on "cups". 

Second Bridge - Western, 9/1/66.  The "churchy" bridge.  Dennis Wilson plays the Hammond organ, Lyle Ritz is on upright bass, Tommy Morgan plays harmonica, and hand-held percussion instruments are shaken by Hal Blaine and Carl Wilson.  Henry Bowen David is the engineer (a rare occasion when a session was held at Western without Chuck Britz).  This section was added relatively late in the recording process, replacing the "fuzz bass" bridge that almost made it to the master.

Third Bridge - Western, 5/4/66.  This is the slow part behind the high vocals after the third chorus and immediately before the fade.  It is from the same session that produced the First Bridge.

Chorus Fade - Sunset Sound, 5/24/66.  The only part of the record featuring Carol Kaye on Fender bass (she had contributed to at least two other sessions, at Gold Star on 4/9/66 and Western on 6/18/66, but nothing from those sessions was used in the master).  This time around, Jim Gordon is on drums.

Tracking was done on 4-track tape (on at least one occasion, two 4-tracks were linked together), and then transfered over to 8-track at Columbia Records studio for vocal overdubs.  Additional Theremin and cello were also apparently overdubbed at Columbia, even though those two instruments were also used on many of the tracking dates.  It is likely that this overdub was needed for only one or two sections (the Chorus and/or the segue between the Third Bridge and Chorus Fade).  Unfortunately dates for the vocal and final mixdown sessions are unknown, but they would have taken place at Columbia, since that was apparently the only studio in L.A. at that time with an 8-track deck.

*****************************************************************************

SECOND ESSAY - the conclusion I've come to as to the sources of the various "sessions" appearing on the Sea Of Tunes label's box set "Unsurpassed Masters Vol. 15 (1966): Good Vibrations".

The set does indeed, as noted, include highlights from nine seperate tracking sessions, but the order, numbering, and indeed composition of these nine sessions are not accurately represented.  Note the disclaimer included which states "All takes are combined into various sessions.  They do not, however, represent the actual recording dates" (this appears on the insert included in the original box set, but I believe it is missing from the subsequent "3-CD jewel box only" repackage).  This implies, as the evidence bears out, that the session groupings assigned by the good folks at SOT are not necessarily based on reality, but rather on their idea of convenience or musical flow.

DISC ONE
"Session #1" (tracks 1-8):  this is actually the second "Good Vibes" tracking session, from Gold Star 4/9
"Session #2" (tracks 9-16):  this is actually the first "Good Vibes" tracking session, from Gold Star 2/17-18 

DISC TWO
"Session #3" (tracks 1-5, called "Insert"):  Western, 6/16 (this session continues on Disc Three, tracks 11-19)
"Session #4" (tracks 6-8, called "Part 1", tracks 9-10, called "Part 2"):  Western, 6/18
(tracks 11-13, called "Part 3"):  Western, 5/4
(tracks 14-15, also called "Part 3"):  Western, 5/27
(track 16, also called "Part 3" but a different musical segment):  also Western, 5/27
(tracks 17-18, called "Part 4"):  also Western, 5/27
(tracks 19-20, called "Part 3"): also Western, 5/27
(tracks 21-22, called "Part 3 Fuzz Bass Rehearsal"):  also Western, 5/27
(tracks 23-24, called "Part 4"):  Western, 6/2

DISC THREE
"Session #5" (tracks 1-9, called "New Track"):  actually the second half of Western 9/1 session
"Session #6":  track 10 is a "Free Jazz Improvisation" from an unknown date; tracks 11-19 are the continuation of the Western 6/16 session begun on Disc Two
"Session #7":  tracks 20-21 are called "Part 3" but they are actually Part 1 of Sunset Sound 5/24 session; tracks 22-23 are correctly titled as "Part 2" of the same session; track 24 is Part 4 of the same session (conclusions based in part on the reproduction of this session's tape box lid, included in the package artwork)
"Session #8" (tracks 25-27, called "Bass Track", referred to on tape as "Piano/Bass Track"):  the first half of Western 9/1 session, which concludes at the top of this disc
"Session #9" (tracks 28-32) are simply rough mixes and overdubs of different segments to be used in the subsequent master edits

*****************************************************************************

THIRD ESSAY - analysis of the montages:

At one time in the late '80s Capitol was considering a "SMiLE" sessions CD release, and in anticipation of that, they had a montage prepared consisting of segments from various "Good Vibrations" sessions,  rumored to last 30 minutes in duration, and consisting of mostly unreleased material.  Portions of this montage leaked out onto bootleg releases beginning in the late '80s and continuing into the early '90s, both on vinyl and CD.  Variations released by Capitol were included on (1) the "Smiley Smile"/"Wild Honey" twofer CD, released in 1990, and (2) the "Good Vibrations:  Thirty Years of The Beach Boys" box set, released in 1993.  These two variations are identical, except that the second one is slightly longer, with additional material appearing at the end.  Since the dawn of this "montage age", Beach Boys fanatics have pondered the question:  "which sessions do these tantalizing musical morsels come from?".  The liner notes for the "Smiley Smile"/"Wild Honey" twofer CD proclaim that the material is from "Various sessions at Gold Star - 2/18 & 4/9, Western - 5/4, 5/27, 6/2, 6/16, 6/18, 9/1, and Sunset Sound - 8/24".  It would appear that the last of these dates is a typo (certainly not unheard of in the Capitol twofer liner notes world - typos and downright errors, especially regarding dates, abound!).  The only Sunset Sound "Good Vibrations" session for which existing documentation is known to collectors (both an AFM musicians' contract and a dated tape box) give the date as May, not August 24.  It is, of course, possible that two or more "Good Vibes" sessions were conducted at Sunset Sound, but due to the similarity between the two dates (5/24 and 8/24), the abundance of typos existing in the Capitol liner notes, and the fact that with the exception of the Sunset Sound date, the dates given above correspond to all known "Good Vibes" sessions for which documentation exists (not counting one or two overdub "sweetening" sessions), it seems likely that the August 24 date is erroneous and is, in fact, May 24. 

The official Capitol montages consist of the following material:

(1) Session dialog, commencing with Brian's slate "'Good Vibrations', Take One", and proceeding through an early take, more dialog ("Hold it, please - let me hear the organ...another stop, please...", "I would  like to start it out now, this time, with the organ and the Fender bass...", "Larry, can you switch that motor on for the verses and off for 'B'...", "Are we all set for that thing where everything drops out...builds up?", "Wait a minute, where are we?...See, what it is, is, the organ's on 2-4 and you guys think it's the "one" beat, don't you?", "Play hard and strong, all the way.  And watch me on that part now".  All of this musical and spoken material is from the very first session, at Gold Star, the evening of February 17 into the early morning of February 18.  Since it was recorded in the heart of the "Pet Sounds" era, it also appears on the "Pet Sounds Sessions" box set from 1997.  Cal Harris, the engineer, is heard calling the final take, "Twenty-eight", but instead the montage takes us straight into...
(2) ...what has been referred to variously as the "overtone", "tack piano", and "toy piano" version, from the second session at Gold Star, April 9.  From this session we hear a verse and a chorus, and then we go to...
(3)...the original second bridge, cut from the final master and replaced with the new "church organ" bridge.  This bridge begins with a fuzz bass riff, soon joined by harpsichord, cups, and other percussion, finally ending with an overdubbed drum pickup, and was recorded at Western on May 27.  This is quickly followed by another attempt at a bridge section,
(4), recorded at the same May 27 session.  This bridge starts with a piano playing higher and lower octaves simultaneously, tympani, flutes, and piccolo.  This bridge is similar, but not identical, to another piano/tympani/flute bridge, recorded at Sunset Sound three days earlier, and left out of Capitol's officially-released montages (but appearing nonetheless on the above-mentioned bootlegs).  After a slight pause, we hear...
(5)...the "guitar melody" version (aka "Toy Piano"?), in which an electric six-string (played by Carl Wilson) replaces the Fender bass as the primary melodic instrument.  This was culled from a June 18 Western session, and we hear a verse and chorus before segueing immediately into...
(6)...the "Dano bass melody" version.  As you might have guessed, for this rendition the melody line is played by the Danelectro 6-string bass instead of the standard Fender 4-string bass.  The Danelectro, like the Fender VI 6-string bass, is tuned an octave higher than conventional 4-string bass, making it sound somewhat like the low to mid range of a conventional electric guitar.  Although appearing second in this "alternate melody" medley, it was actually recorded two days before the "guitar melody" version, at Western on June 16.  We hear a verse (where a "freaky clarinet", as Mike Love put it, joins in), and a chorus.  From there we go...
(7)...to church.  Dennis Wilson's organ bridge, soon accompanied by some unreleased vocals of the "Hum-de-dum" variety.  This was recorded September 1 at Western (I checked and, no, September 1, 1966 was not a Sunday...it just sounds like one).  This is where the "Smiley Smile"/"Wild Honey" twofer version of the montage ends, but the 1993 box set version continues with...
(Cool...the first bridge from the released master version, minus vocal and instrumental overdubs, into a chorus from the same session, then to the slow bridge before the fade, and back to the chorus section.  All of this is from the May 4 Western session.  It appears that in assembling the final edited version, Brian simply took this entire section, excised the chorus, replaced it with, originally, the "fuzz bass" bridge, but ultimately with the September 1 "churchy bridge", left the "slow bridge" intact, added a brief cello/Theremin interlude, and replaced the chorus fade with the one from Sunset Sound, May 24.  Finally, we hear...
(9)..."Really felt good, let's play it".  Brian's comment is the only material from that May 24 Sunset Sound session used in the Capitol montage.   

*****************************************************************************





3960  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: new comp announced - June 10 - U.S. Singles on: April 12, 2008, 10:10:26 AM
Seems like the Beach Boys will never stop eating their own. Once again they are showing no respect for Dennis Wilson. The release date is the day before POB's new release. Stupid MF's. Oh...right...its just a coincidence.

Maybe it will get pushed back a month or two (as usually happens with BBs releases), while Dennis' package hits the streets on time.

I hope you all get the humor in that last part...
3961  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1978 gigs & sessions now live on 10452 on: April 12, 2008, 10:06:05 AM
Oh, and here's another one:

Dec. 28, 1978 - Brittania: HERE COMES THE NIGHT (strings)
3962  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1978 gigs & sessions now live on 10452 on: April 12, 2008, 09:58:56 AM
November 12 - L. A. (Light Album) session: Shortenin' Bread [Sound Castle]


I'm wondering if this should be "Sounds Good" instead of "Sound Castle"?
3963  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1978 gigs & sessions now live on 10452 on: April 12, 2008, 09:32:26 AM
They actually failed to appear on the Dick Clark Live Wednesday thing...I distinctly remember tuning in, watching & waiting for their appearance (which I expected to be a performance of their current singe "Peggy Sue")...which had been advertised, but on the night of the show there was no mention of it and they weren't on.  Unless I tuned in on a different week and missed their actual performance on the night of Dec. 20th...but if that were the case, I'd think a video tape of it would be in circulation by now. 
3964  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Summer Days Outtakes Essay on: April 12, 2008, 08:51:11 AM
C-man, I'd love it if you posted any "who-played-what" info here.

That would get rather cumbersome...some of the sessions have, like, 30 or so string and brass players.
3965  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: good vibrations alternate on: April 11, 2008, 11:17:22 AM
I love the smell of research in the morning.

I know whatcha mean...the big mug of hazelnut java ALONE just isn't cutting it anymore...
3966  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Summer Days Outtakes Essay on: April 11, 2008, 10:18:26 AM
This essay was incredible btw. I read the entire thing in a day and it really gave me a stronger perception of the boys in the studio than even listening to the UMs.
Great job and how about more?
-BK

Thanks!  Always nice to know my work is appreciated.  And yes, more is in the offing...with any luck, this summer I should have an essay on the Party! sessions up, followed by "The Little Girl I Once Knew" single this fall, and hopefully Pet Sounds and "Good Vibrations" by year's end.  As you can imagine, it takes a LONG time to compile this stuff, since I'm working a straight 9:00-5:00 day gig, and also developing several other projects, including recording an album myself and helping with sundry other BBs-related endeavors...

Oh, and I also intend to post an essay, or at least credits, for "POB/Bambu" upon its release in June.  Which, BTW, I should ask this...I've got TONS of credit & recording info for stuff like Friends, 20/20, Breakaway/Celebrate the News, Sunflower, all the way up to and including things like MIU, LA Light, KTSA, even Brian's first solo album and BWPS.  I could wait to post that stuff until I've got essays to accompany them...which will likely take a couple of years...OR I could post the info I have now (maybe not immediately, but soon), and follow up with the essays as time moves on.  How does everyone here vote on that?
3967  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: good vibrations alternate on: April 11, 2008, 06:50:48 AM
...unless, of course, they also played North Dakota in February...there are only two concert dates listed on Bellagio from late February, one in Iowa and the other in Oklahoma, which DOES put them in the right general part of the country...and Carl DID say it was "freezing" in North Dakota at the time (which it WASN'T in mid-August...I checked...but it probably WAS in February). 

Ian, any chance they played N. Dakota around the time of those other two February '66 gigs?  That would make more sense than the August theory I just proposed...
3968  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: good vibrations alternate on: April 11, 2008, 06:44:30 AM
Naw, it's Brian for sure on the alternate lyric version...MAYBE Brian & Carl, but Brian is definitely there, same as the "God Only Knows" alternate vocal.

And the Boys weren't touring Japan when Brian played them the "Good Vibes" track for the first time...according to Carl, it was North Dakota.  Per the timeline on Bellagio, this would've been mid-August, which means the track Brian played down the phoneline to Carl would likely be the spliced-together master that included the fuzz bass solo that was later replaced by the organ interlude...and it would've only had Brian's work vocals, if any.  By that time, Carl had already played on at least two tracking sessions, so he was familiar with the song, but apparently hearing the pastiche stiched together from several different tracking dates resulted in Carl describing it as "disjointed".
3969  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The end of Smile- Some big questions, any takers?? on: April 10, 2008, 05:27:47 PM
There's a 400+ page book called "Good Vibrations".  I'd love to report that the entire book is about the writing & recording of the Beach Boys' song, but it's actually subtitled "A History of Record Production", and that's what it is.  By Mark Cunningham.  Highly recommended.

On page 82, Mike Love is quoted thusly:  "...I was around for one of the sessions and actually came up with the lyrics and melody line for the 'I'm pickin' up good vibrations' part.  But I just had a 'let's wait and see' attitude', so I left Brian to his own devices and didn't attend any more backing sessions until it was time to record the vocals...". 

Combined with the above quote from Goldmine (where Mike describes dictating the rest of the lyrics to Suzanne in the car on the way to Columbia Studios), this should satisfy source-wise. 

As far as the quality of Mike's lyrics:  I consider both "she goes with me to a blossom world" (which BTW doesn't even rhyme with the preceding line) and "I don't know where but she sends me there" some of the best lyrics I've ever heard in a pop song, including Dylan's and Lennon's.  Surreal but accessible at the same time. 
3970  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Hammersmith (London) Mike & Bruce show, 4/4 on: April 09, 2008, 12:42:19 PM
I'd read that David played all of the first set and about half of the second...which songs did he sit out?
3971  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The end of Smile- Some big questions, any takers?? on: April 09, 2008, 09:23:43 AM
I believe Brian [or Tony] had the "good, good, good vibrations" line, Mike came up with the "excitations" bit, almost all Tony's [or Brian's?] lyrics got scrapped and Mike wrote the rest of the single's lyrics at the vocal session apparently.


Mike says he wrote "I'm pickin' up good vibrations" at one of the early tracking sessions, then stayed away from the sessions until they were ready to do the vocals.  On his way to the final vocal session (or one of the final vocal sessions) he wrote the lyrics to the verses and dictated them to his wife Susanne in the car.
3972  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian plays with L.A Philharmonic this summer on: April 08, 2008, 04:32:00 AM
Wow...he's gonna do RIO GRANDE......really??

On a related thought...I saw Brian perform SMiLE at a casino.  It went over great!
It really WAS in "the church of the American Indian"!   Wink
3973  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Summer Days Outtakes Essay on: April 07, 2008, 05:12:35 AM
C-man, love the new update. Was just reading through some of it and you mention that Carl was the shortest Wilson, but I always thought it was Dennis who was the shortest? It might not be by much but that's what I always read?

Could be...Jon S., can you clarify this?

Just found where I read it c-man, if you care to check page 75 of Look! Listen! Vibrate! SMiLE! and it has the heights of all the guys there. For those who don't have it:

Dennis - 5'9" and 155lbs
Carl - 5'10" and 175lbs
Brian - 6'2" and 195lbs
Mike - 6'1" and 165lbs
Alan - 5'5" and 135lbs
Bruce - 5'5" and 135lbs

Not entirely sure how accurate that is but there it is anyway.

Hmmm...wonder why Carl needed the box and Denny didn't?
3974  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Summer Days Outtakes Essay on: April 07, 2008, 04:19:40 AM
C-man, love the new update. Was just reading through some of it and you mention that Carl was the shortest Wilson, but I always thought it was Dennis who was the shortest? It might not be by much but that's what I always read?

Could be...Jon S., can you clarify this?
3975  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Summer Days Outtakes Essay on: April 06, 2008, 12:40:05 PM
So anybody else want to perform selections of the transcription as some sort of experimental play?

Wow...you're serious?
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