MBE, C. Miller or anybody else who is in possession of these pics, could somebody repost these. I'm really interested in seeing the change in Brian and whatnot.

I hope somebody can help.

I don't think Brian is added after the fact in that SOS photo cuz he's in this one too. Its just odd, because in the CATP/Holland/'74 era you NEVER saw Brian in a promo shot (or really at all) with the group. Hopefully somebody has some info.

Brian looks a lot better in this shot from the same day.

Where and when is this photo and that other one that looks like it. My guess is late 72 or 73? Its weird.

[That creepy photo of him on the back (note new avatar) and Mt Vernon and Fairway only serve to reinforce this.]

Since we're somewhat on that topic, which songs was Brian vocally present on? "California" obviously, and maybe "Funky Pretty" although I don't think I can hear him on there. Are there any other songs he's possibly on. Or for that matter, they he even played on besides "Funky Pretty"?

Apparently Brian is on Funky Pretty. He plays drums (hardly!) and sings, backing vocals. Apparently he's the one saying "funky pretty gone". You can hear that, buried deep in the mix at about 2:22-2:25 and continuing thereon. I don't know if there's any proof but it also sounds like he's in the backing vocal blend of "The Trader". Though I guess it could be someone else. And "Steamboat," or at least that sounds a lot like him singing those high backing parts. To me anyway.

Holland I have to admit is one of the albums I fell out of love with. Not sure specifically why - maybe it's an album where Brian feels less present - but the positive comments here, especially the enthusiasm for steamboat, make me want to go and dig it out again.

Brian's minimal presence makes his music on this album seem even more arcane and mythic than usual to me. That creepy photo of him on the back (note new avatar) and Mt Vernon and Fairway only serve to reinforce this.

Yeah, he doesn't look like a bandmember at all

Why not? Cuz he wasn't in a live setting? Neither was Dennis....all the rest of the guys were though. Oddly enough.

Speaking of KTSA, since it was the last original BB album released during his lifetime, did Dennis ever make his opinion known on that LP? I know he wanted MIU to self destruct, and this is definitely more of a piece with that, so I can't imagine he liked it very much. But anyways...

I love Carl's vocal on "This Whole World", but I really wish there was an alternate Brian vocal lying around somewhere. It puzzled me why they'd have Brian sing leads at the beginning and then he wouldn't be on the rest of the track - "California" is another example, and I think there's another that escapes me right now.

It's equally perplexing the FEW lead vocals that Brian Wilson actually sang on the Beach Boys' five albums from 1969-1973. He basically went five years, during a period when he could still sing, during a period that is a favorite of many fans, and rarely sang an extended lead vocal.

There are reports that he tried to sing the 71 "Surf's Up" but stopped after what he felt to be two bad takes. Would it have sounded great to us? Probably. Did he still not feel his voice was good enough? Very likely, yes. I think the reason he rarely sang on his own songs or even others songs around that time could have been that he had recognized the change in his voice a few years before felt that he couldn't do his songs justice. But other members, usually Carl? Shore, they could.

Has there ever been a discussion with Brian (or any of the BB) regarding why he didn't have many lead vocals from 69-73? Was he self-conscious about his voice during this time? Its just odd that most of his leads we're these little half ass ditties like "Walkin'", "Good Time", "Games Two Can Play", etc. Not to say those weren't good songs (well at least "Good Time"). "Til I Die" is an obvious exception from that era. But hearing "This Whole World", "A Day In The Life of a Tree", and maybe even something like "Marcella" would have been so very interesting.

I've skimmed thru the "Cocaine" sessions, and I was wondering, what were the Dennis compositions? Was "Oh Lord" a Brian and Dennis co-composition or was it just Brian? If it was a co-composition you'd think they'd include it on BB85 as a kind of tribute. But of course, that woulda gone against the fun in the sun 45 year old man pretending to be "rad" vibe of it.  And what about the rest of the songs from those sessions, credit goes which ways?

And since POB did so well, do you think these post Bambu recordings might be released, or do you think they'd just stick to the the early 70's solo stuff that still hasn't been put out?

Was "Labor Day" just a placeholder title, seeing as though the session obviously took place right near "Labor Day"? Any chance we'll ever be able to hear this?

When did Dennis essentially "give up" on Bambu? And why? Did the drugs, life, etc just become too much for him to focus on that anymore?

So I have two questions regarding Dennis as an artist.

First, when was the last recording session he was present in?

And secondly, when was the last time he recorded his own music? Was it "Labor Day"? Did he do any vocals after '80? Its interested me.

Its just so sad to see the disappearance of Dennis the artist after LA. I mean I guess we have those Cocaine Sessions, but whatever.

Since we're somewhat on that topic, which songs was Brian vocally present on? "California" obviously, and maybe "Funky Pretty" although I don't think I can hear him on there. Are there any other songs he's possibly on. Or for that matter, they he even played on besides "Funky Pretty"?

Can anybody post the exact lyrics for that section? I can't quite make them out, even with the part isolated.

This ain't impossible
This ain't improbable
You are my baby tonight
And I'm your daddy
This ain't believable
This ain't predictable
You are my baby tonight
And I'm your daddy

Classic move Runners.

Yeah anybody wanna help out here?

Nah, the Brian cover I'm thinking of, as I've already said I think, was from the KTSA sessions.  I probably shouldn't say which, but a gander at Andrew Doe's 1979 sessions page will narrow it down.

Hmm, well by narrowing the '79 sessions, I can only see a few oldies that could've been by Brian. By the process of elimination Da Doo Ron Ron (Carl) and  School Days (Al) are out. So I'm assuming either Jamaica Farewell, Smokey Places, or Johnny B. Goode, although JBG seems like that would be a Mike sung title. I dunno, any more hints??? 

I was in a situation a few years ago where I was allowed to hear -- but I have to stress, never came into possession of, and hear in a controlled environment -- a few non-bootlegged items.  One of the things I was curious about was the KTSA/LA era recordings, so that's how I came to hear "California Feeling" and a couple of other things.  I don't actually own any bootlegs, or at least, none in the last 13 years or so, so I don't know what's on them or not.  But one thing that became apparent to me was there was an effort to have more Brian on both those recordings, but they didn't come up with anything that they could use (with the one exception that I suspect was left off for aesthetic reasons).

What was the exception? I'm assuming "I'm Begging You Please" if only because its actually from those sessions but doesn't fit the "light, mellow" vibe of the album?

It's interesting that they had him give it a go at "California Feelin'" in '78. I figured that Brian wanted Carl to sing it. Anyways, did he actually finish the performance, or was it finished after his little "aside" early in the song? I just don't understand why they didn't use this song on LA...it totally fits with the vibe. Maybe they had too many Carl vocals on the album already? Who knows.  Anyways it would be interesting to hear both the '74 and '78 Brian takes on the song someday soon (please BRI? A seventies rarities anthology?)

Wow I never even noticed the Brian part on "Sunshine"....probably because I've only listened to it a handful of times in my life. Hes on the last line of ever chorus right? Sounds like his late 70s/early 80s "falsetto".

Also, does anybody know why they really didn't use much Brian material on LA? Do you think it was Bruce's choice since he was producing? "Good Timin'" is a great song, and I just can't imagine CBS being very happy that they just signed the boys and had Brian only contribute one new song.

Iffn they'd known said 'new' song was about four years old, I expect they'd have been even unhappier. Yetnikoff was right.  

I just don't understand how they accepted the LA Album. Didn't the contract specify a certain amount of participation from Brian? Especially for the first album in the CBS contract. I mean, Brian or not, its probably a better album than the more Brian-centric MIU, KTSA, or BB85, but still, how did the BB manage to get away with this. Same thing for Surf's Up, CATP, and Holland, I thought all those albums had contracts that called for like 70 percent of the writing (or something like that) to be BW.

And honestly, I'm kinda confused with why Yetnikoff said he was "f***ed". What exactly was the guy expecting, Sunflower or Pet Sounds? Did he even listen to 15BO, LY, or MIU? Compared to MIU, I'd probably be happy to take "California Feelin'", "Baby Blue", and *gulp* "Brian's Back".

What LA outtakes was he on? Cali Feelin, Brian's Back, and what else?

Wow I never even noticed the Brian part on "Sunshine"....probably because I've only listened to it a handful of times in my life. Hes on the last line of ever chorus right? Sounds like his late 70s/early 80s "falsetto".

Also, does anybody know why they really didn't use much Brian material on LA? Do you think it was Bruce's choice since he was producing? "Good Timin'" is a great song, and I just can't imagine CBS being very happy that they just signed the boys and had Brian only contribute one new song. They couldn't have been jumping for joy at a disco remake of an oldie, and some new Mike Love and Al Jardine numbers, along with a few sleepy Carl songs. "Baby Blue" however is an awesome tune, but honestly, how did they even accept this. There must have been better Brian stuff in the can they could have used?

I don't know.  I'm not saying Brian's voice wasn't better, but I am telling you a very careful listen to the vocals and you can tell there was some very clever mixing going on.  The Al doubling theory wouldn't surprise me.  That aside, I do think a lot of it has to do with someone other than himself producing this session.  Even to this day I understand Brian does better vocals when someone's riding him.  The difference could very well just be someone in the control booth going "no, Brian, do it again."  And come to think of it, Brian couldn't just walk out and go home.  He was stuck in Iowa.  That might be your answer right there.

I've heard a bunch of outtakes from the KTSA and LA era and there's only one where Brian turns in a passable lead vocal, and that was on a cover of an old '50s song.  He tried to sing "California Feeling" and you can tell how seriously he takes it by singing "it was such a beautiful day...[then dryly:]...like most days!"  I think they tried to get him on there but his lead vocals just weren't cutting it.  I think he's doing a lot of the falsettos on KTSA, so they were really trying to have him sing as much as possible.

Really I can't think of many LA or KTSA era Brian leads. I know there was "I'm Begging You Please" but I remember all the oldies covers been either Carl or Mike except for like "River Deep Mountain High" which was not exactly Brian's finest hour. And that "California Feeling" lead vocal try, when was that from? I've never heard of that.

Also, one more thing....was the  "Winter Symphony" lead by Brian? That wasn't too bad either.

Any anyways, now that we've kinda drifted that way, why weren't there any Brian leads on LA or KTSA?

Or for that matter, only 1 Brian song on LA? I know "I'm Begging You Please" and "California Feelin" were recorded during that era, why not put those on the album. Or was Brian against "CF" being on the album (although I'm pretty sure he was just against it being on MIU).

On KTSA, he was almost invisible too, although he was heavily involved in recording it, besides like "Goin On" and "When Girls Get Together" (which is from like 10 years before).

I don't know, just seems like either he didn't wanna be on the front lines or that they were finally annoyed by his somewhat "embarassing" vocals.

Runners, I don't think there were any songs on LA that were supposed to have Brian on leads. I think they were just referring to demos like "I'm Begging You Please", which although being a pretty decent tune, definitely does not have some of the better BW vocals I've ever heard.

Another thing to consider is that on Matchpoint, Brian's vocal attack is softer. It seems that when he'd really go for it on a vocal back then, the phlegm and croaking started coming out, along with a loss of control. Also, smoking really diminishes your lung capacity, so if Brian quit smoking temporarily during the MIU timeframe, that definitely would've helped.

But I suspect that maybe Brian really was deliberately pushing his voice back then to the point where it was difficult to control - maybe a passive-aggressive reaction to the "Brian's Back" campaign and being forced to tour.  At times during that era (e.g., parts of Love You, the Mike Douglas show), it sounded like Brian had forgotten good phrasing and vocal attack techniques. But when you listen to some of the Love You demos, parts of A/C, or even the Cocaine Sessions, you hear Brian's deeper voice, but it's much more controlled and clear.

This brings me to another question, how exactly did he "forget" his phrasing and vocal attack techniques? Because I mean, you can just tell by listening to something like the original H&V and then the '04 version. He just doesn't do it like he used to. Whereas, Dylan may not have the same voice he has, but he still has that ability to phrase his lyrics in that special way he always did (or however he wants). Brian doesn't seem to have that control. Do you think he purposely just became less disciplined? Because you can't blame it on the 80's Landy treatment, since its been happening since like the mid 70s. I dont know.

True, but if you listen close, his vocals aren't quite as good as they seem on first blush.  And you could do a lot in the '70s to cover things up, multiple punches, triple tracking, all manner of reverb.  The only voice technology we have now that wasn't available in some form in the late '70s was pitch correction...one big difference was that Brian wasn't at the helm for M.I.U. so there was probably a more concerted effort to get better vocals out of Brian, and to get them to fly in the mix, than for LOVE YOU and 15 BIG ONES.  I've heard the outtakes of Brian's leads for LIGHT ALBUM and KTSA and they are almost uniformly ass, so whatever he got back for MIU was transitory.

I mean its obvious (to me at least) that his voice on those two MIU tracks was still closer to 15BO and LY than the stuff before. And he still sounded like balls on "Hey Little Tomboy". Which was ok on Love You because the songs were good. And that falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm" is just...yuck. But yeah, I know all about punching in, reverb, and all that, and it can't actually change your voice. I'm not arguing, but I'm just saying you can only make somebody sound so good. And after hearing Brian on those albums or after on the LA demos and KTSA, you wouldn't think its the same guy. It somewhat leads you back to that conclusion that maybe it was all a game on his part; although honestly I don't think it is.

Really ? Losing the cigs did that for him? Shoot.

Didn't landy make him quit again in 82? cuz i can't say his voice really sounded that much better by BB85 or BW88 though. i mean he sounded pretty good on Imagination and Smile but yeah, he still didn't have that same smoothness.

As far as the mixing, i'm sure they used some trickery, but at that time, there was only so much they could do to make him sound good. The technology just wasnt there. So its still quite an achievement that he sounded like that, especially after hearing something like "Back Home" or "Love is a Woman".

So onto a VERY important topic, "Hey Little Tomboy".

Anyways on two places on Wikipedia, it says something about it being composed in 1974. I'm like 98 percent positive that isn't true, but whoever put that, did it twice, and must have some reasoning. Anybody got any info?

Also, what the hell was up with Brian's voice during MIU? Or basically just "Wontcha Come Out Tonight" and "Match Point of Our Love". How did he sound so smooth? Is there any real info on that?

Any "insiders" with an info/anecdotes on this collection?