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680598 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 07:19:02 PM
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3026  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Shyin' Away on: November 20, 2010, 11:39:58 PM
Did Brian write this song. I notice on the single from the '70s that its credited to D. Sandler, B. Wilson, and D. Rovell, but then inside of my '88 Rhino Spring album, its credited to M. Wilson, D. Rovell, and D. Sandler. It sounds like something Brian would write. Although, apparently David Sandler is pretty good at that. So who knows. Brian for sure did produce this though right?
3027  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's lack of vocals after Friends on: November 16, 2010, 08:31:22 PM
I mean, my impression is that a lot of those songs he probably just thought Carl was maybe better suited for the lead. And there's nothing wrong with that.  Carl surely was the man for the job on "You Need a Mess of Help" and some others. It just seems odd to me, that this guy, who from '64 to around '68ish, was basically a co-lead singer, was basically inaudible on two whole albums: Carl and The Passions and Holland (except "California" obviously). I mean the guy still wrote 2 songs each for the albums, and was heavily involved in the production and recording of 3 of them, and he was known as a great singer, so I'm surprised he wasn't even audible to the point of some of his appearances on Sunflower like "All I Wanna Do", "Forever", or whatever. It honestly seems like he didn't wanna be heard. And I must admit, I'm not so sure I buy into the whole "not wanting to be a Beach Boy thing". I think he was happy to be a member, but just wanted to do it on his terms. I mean, even in '74, he was in the recording studio demoing "California Feelin'" with the view of making it a Beach Boys song. I just think maybe there wasn't as much energy or inspiration, but he still wanted to contribute. He just didn't want to fake it.

Well on 20/20 and Sunflower he's still pretty prominent. Time To Get Alone, This Whole World, I Went To Sleep, Add Some Music, Deirdre, All I Wanna Do, At My Window, and Cool Cool Water all have him taking at least one lead line. I also cannot imagine songs like Forever, Our Sweet Love, even Do It Again without him. He did sing on a lot of outtakes including Were Together Again, Old Man River, Games, I Just Got My Pay, My Solution, Won't You Tell Him, Awake, Silly Walls, H.E.L.P., Good Time etc. By 1972 he wasn't singing as much lead but he did a little on California Saga and Magic Transitor Radio. I love Brian's voice in this era so yes I wish he sang three or four more leads from 20/20 on but it's not like you can't hear him particularly while Steve Desper was still there.


So I guess, he really didn't disappear all that much until Carl and The Passions and Holland. So thanks for correcting me.
3028  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Brian's lack of vocals after Friends on: November 14, 2010, 08:27:41 PM
So in the early years of the band, it seemed as though Mike Love was basically the lead singer, with an occasional lead by Brian or Dennis. Then around '64 Brian started taking on more leads, and it could be said that they were co-lead singers through around Pet Sounds. We will never know who would have exactly done what on SMiLE but we know Brian had the leads on "Surf's Up", "Heroes and Villains", etc. Then it seemed from Smiley Smile to Friends a situation where Carl seemed to be having more leads. And of course, Dennis and Al were lurking around there too. But anyways, after Friends it is like Brian nearly disappeared vocally.

He takes the lead on "I Went To Sleep" but that seems to be it. He then sings a few lines on the single "Breakaway", and does a bit of writing on Sunflower, and he is definitely heard in the backing vocals, but the closest we got to a lead was a bit at the beginning on "This Whole World" and some of the later portion of "Cool Cool Water".  Anyways, what happened? Why didn't he choose himself to sing lead? Was it just that he felt Carl's voice was better suited to those songs, or was it that he didn't want the spotlight? Or just that he didn't have the will to go in there and do it himself? It seems like the leads he did take were goofy songs, like "Good Time", "Games Two Can Play", and a few other things, like the part on "Take A Load Off Your Feet" on Surf's Up. Sure, "'Til I Die" is the exception, along with his co-lead on "Surf's Up" (which is from years earlier obviously).

On Carl and the Passions and Holland he's either barely audible or not there. I don't get it. Was this a reaction to possibly not wanting to be a "Beach Boy"? Or some of the reasons I stated above? I honestly don't believe that in the early 70's that he didn't wanna be in the band, I just feel like he wanted to step back.

Oddly enough though, he returns in '76 and decides for the next few years that his new raspier voice was now much more apt for lead vocals, and its just kinda not something that makes sense. I don't know.

I'm sure this has been covered before, but its always been intriguing to me, and its for this reason I would like to hear stuff we haven't heard from that era with Brian on vocals such as "Where Is She?" from '69 and "California Feelin'" from '74. It seems like its a special moment that unfortunately he no longer wanted to share with the world.

I hope that isn't retreading old stuff, and hopefully this will spark some conversation.
3029  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys music collecting:Can This Really Be The End? on: November 14, 2010, 05:35:12 PM
Hold up. So is there any reasonable source that says we won't be getting any unreleased material next year? Or is this just all conjecture. I could think of quite a few things I'd love to hear....say "California Feelin'"  from '74 and "Where Is She?". I'd be pretty happy if I heard those 2. And possibly anymore Brian vocals from before the major voice change.

Anyways, I have to imagine there must be some kinda rarities thing coming. Many of the top tier artists has done it at least once, or possibly many times by now....Elvis Costello, The Band, Bob Dylan, John Lennon, etc. The guys really just skirted the surface on the box set. And the 70's two-fers didn't even have any unreleased tracks. I think at least a new double albums worth of strictly unreleased material would be great. Or maybe straight album reissues with bonus tracks making up for the usually very short running times.
3030  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Did Brian actually re-record Marcella in '74? on: October 17, 2010, 06:27:26 PM
Anyways, the thread title kinda says it all. I'm asking this question because it says this is the case in the Badman book. But I'm pretty sure Andrew's site says nothing of the sort. And I'm wondering how this mix-up could have been made. If it is real, do we have any idea what it sounds like? Or if it was finished, etc?

And why would Brian be messing around with the song two years after it was released anyways? Was he possibly going to produce a cover for someone?
3031  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BBs Reunion page on Facebook on: October 05, 2010, 08:05:14 PM
Heres my take:

  • I would like to see the guys (Brian, Mike, Bruce and Al) get back together at least for one show. And hopefully the record at least one or two new/unreleased B. Wilson songs.
  • This whole David Marks thing, whatever. Yes, I respect that he played on those early songs, but whatever, I don't really even care all that much about the early surf and car stuff. I care about the records released from like '65 til now. So Marks, take him or leave him. Don't care. Which brings me to my next point.
  • I really hope they invite Blondie to play. He was the lead voice on a great, popular song of theirs, and I think would impress the public if he played with the guys, and got some more attention.
3032  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Possiblity of archival releaeses in '11/'12? on: October 02, 2010, 11:15:56 PM
Ok since we're reaching that 50 year anniversary business, lets get to the part that gets most of us the most excited. And that would be the possiblity that they would release some of the best unreleased tracks they've still got in the vaults. There has to have been a reason that they've got a team of guys going through all that stuff. But anyways, we can make all the lists we want, or wish all that we can, but let me ask, does anybody "in the know" have any clue whether we will finally get some more unreleased stuff? The box set and Endless Harmony, as well as the Capitol 2-fers are great, but we haven't gotten hardly anything else in over a decade. And I don't count that Hawthorne collection. It was mostly alternates, and only had, what, one or 2 "new" songs.

So whats the deal? Are there any rumblings? I mean, the impossible has aready happened and we got Bambu so it can't be that much of a stretch to get some of the best unreleased unreleased work by the Boys. I've given up on BB Central, but I have to assume they will be putting out some new stuff in the next 2 years, and maybe some of it will be directed towards us.
3033  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's improved voice on M.I.U. - mystery solved? on: September 23, 2010, 12:33:18 PM
But do we have reason to believe it was indeed recorded? Did our beloved vault-combers ever come across it? Seems like possibly something that could be included on a future rarities set. A completed Brian/Beach Boys track from '72? Not something we have much of besides "You Need A Mess Of Help", "Marcella", and "Funky Pretty".

And yeah, I definitely agree with you AGD. I wouldn't for a second believe that the '77 "Burlesque" had anything to do with the '72 one, seeing as Mike seemed firmly in charge at MIU, its doubtful they'd dig up a 5-year old Brian song he disliked, no matter the lack of good Brian material available.
3034  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's improved voice on M.I.U. - mystery solved? on: September 23, 2010, 10:17:57 AM
This has nothing to do with the Christmas album issue, but may I ask, is "Burlesque" or "Beach Burlesque" the same track of Brian's that Jack Reiley said was so great from the early 70s? Maybe CATP era? Idk, just noticed that though.

I thought that too, but no, turns out they're entirely different songs.

Actually, now that I think about it, is there even proof that "Burlesque" song was ever recorded? Or exists? I don't think its in your recording history, never really heard it mentioned besides the Reiley thing, and I just find it hard to believe the guys wouldn't just eat up any new song Brian gave them. Maybe this song was just too much for them though. Do we have an approximate date for that song? Surf's Up era? CATP era? Hmm.
3035  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's improved voice on M.I.U. - mystery solved? on: September 23, 2010, 07:22:47 AM
This has nothing to do with the Christmas album issue, but may I ask, is "Burlesque" or "Beach Burlesque" the same track of Brian's that Jack Reiley said was so great from the early 70s? Maybe CATP era? Idk, just noticed that though.
3036  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's shouty vocals on: September 16, 2010, 10:45:50 PM
When did this start?

People have always said his vocals on GIOMH are shouty, especially his new vocals on Soul Searchin'.
But I've also read where people think Orange Crate Art's vocals have his shouting characteristics.

I myself would like to note Water Builds Up and Drip Drop as shouty vocals in my book; but I find nothing wrong with them.

First shouty vocal I know of is "Lucy Jones", 11/12/74. It got a whole lot worse, but that's the earliest one I've heard.
By the time Lucy Jones was recorded, was his voice already hoarse? Did his voice still have any of the "classic Brian" sound?

I just wonder what Brian vocal of that era it would best compare to. I think AGD may have said the vocals were most comparable to "Chapel of Love", which wasn't very good, per se, but it was fun. But if he was sounding supposedly "young" on "California Feelin'" a few weeks before, I'm confused. Although I'm sure this was probably right near the middle of the period of losing his voice.

I have to ask though, why did Brian's voice basically go from sounding like one person to sounding like an entirely different person? I mean, Nilsson went from A Little Touch of Schmilsson In The Night to P**** Cats vocally in one year. But he still sounded like the same person, and his vocals thereafter, while a little bit different, sounded like Harry Nilsson.

I do hear the young Brian in the performance of "God Only Knows" from the clip on YouTube that Paul Reiser introduces. Is it possible that this was always going to be Brian's "mature" voice, or do you think if he took better care we'd have ended up with a more Carl-like sound but just a bit shriller?
3037  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love Solo Be My Baby on: September 12, 2010, 11:08:43 AM
Wait....so which is the version that is on LBWL? The one that was already posted, or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmn90U3bH90

If the first one is, then what is this version? I personally like the first version way more. Has a lot more of that crazy Brian "Love You" type sound, even though its from the early 80s.
3038  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Clangin and Ding Dang and Shortenin' Bread on: September 02, 2010, 01:22:03 AM
Wait so let me get this right...."Mow mama yama" came from "Clang"?

"Clangin"= reworking of "I'm The Pied Piper"? I thought "Lazy Lizzy" was a reworking of "Pied Piper"? Or is that a reworking of "Get Back in Bed'? BLAHHH!!

"Ding Dang" from Love You is from much earlier than the Love You sessions.

And one last thing, the alternate "SB" I'm asking about isn't the one from '73 and finished in '77 or whatever, but some version of "SB" or something that sounds like it from (I think) '79 or '80.
3039  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Clangin and Ding Dang and Shortenin' Bread on: August 31, 2010, 09:33:18 PM
Ok, so I know this has kinda been answered before, but I just want it clarified. What is the relationship between "Clangin", "Ding Dang" and "Shortenin Bread"? Did either grow out of "Shortenin Bread"? Was "Clangin" ever recorded? Finished? Does it indeed include the "Mow-Mama-Yama" part? What does the song even sound like?

And then, were "Ding Dang" and "Clangin" part of the same song idea or something? I notice Brian doin that "clangin, clangin, clangin" part in "Brian's Tune" or Ding Ding '74 or what have you.

Then one last question, when was the version of "Ding Dang" on Love You recorded? 1973 as AGDs book says? 1974? Or during the Love You sessions?

And lastly, whats with the alternate, faster version of "Shortenin Bread" from around KTSA with no vocals? Was that actually a backing track for some other song,  or what was it?

I know none of this is of any great importance but this situation kinda confuses me. And I figured this is the place to ask!
3040  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Original cut of Goin' On on: August 29, 2010, 10:58:08 PM
Is it true Brian doesn't wanna sing it? Or are you just guessing that? I like the earlier version a lot better too, with the drum breaks and all, but I don't think they did vocals for it. I'm sure somebody else knows more than myself though.

But yeah, I dont know why Bruce changed this, and also apparently, "Oh Darlin" which he apparently transformed from a samba to that plodding piece of garbage. I dont know the full scoop on this either.

And while we are at it, can somebody explain to me how the Crystals "Little Boy" turned into "Sunshine"? Is the chord progression the same? Cuz the melody doesnt really seem to be anywhere close, and Brian's original and way more powerful and interesting track got replaced by that half-ass Buffett fake-reggae business. Anyways, any info?

Also, hope i didnt take over your thread punkinhead.
3041  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's improved voice on M.I.U. - mystery solved? on: August 25, 2010, 10:46:48 PM
Well, I don't think the lack of smoking and coke with the addition of voice coaching helped Brian with the falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm." It's atrociaous. Bordering on embarassing.

I agree, that vocal is definitely not one of Brian's best. It's so shrill. Its not Brian-like, not Frankie Valli-like (I feel like I heard that somewhere), its just...bad. His vocals on "Kona Coast" and "Winds of Change" sound just like that to me. Except that they are not extended, therefore making them bearable, and possibly even good, in my opinion. He just didn't have it in him to do an extended falsetto in the late 70s.

How about "Sunshine" from KTSA?  The little parts (e.g. "When she squeeze me, how she please me" bits).  That's a great example of Brian singing in the late '70s with his fine late '60s-early '70s falsetto voice.


I don't quite see that c-man. That pretty much just sounds like typical late 70s Brian once again, except seemingly lower in the mix. I do seem to notice that on KTSA, Brian seems to be mixed pretty low, whereas Mike seems to really up-front. I know he was the front-man, but it seems on stuff like "Goin' On" and "When Girls Get Together" Mike seems to be way more predominate than he should be. Honestly, I can't even hear Brian on "WGGT". And trust me, I'd love to hear another clear voiced Brian lead. There is never enough. What should I listen for to make me hear Brian easier?
3042  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / List of SMiLE-ish songs Brian made in '03? on: August 19, 2010, 11:25:49 PM
Hey everybody, what was on the list of songs considered for the SMiLE perforance that Brian made for Darian in '03? I remember seeing it a while ago. And I just wanted to see it again.

And secondly, can somebody explain to me what that "So Cold I Go Burr" character was all about? Was he for real? Is he banned or did he quit the board on his own? Was he just trolling or was he that much of an acid-fried idiot? Anyways, what a drug glorifying moron. This coming from someone who doesn't mind a little something here and there.
3043  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian & SMiLE on: August 19, 2010, 05:47:04 PM
Honestly, I don't see why it can't be accepted that Brian apparently thought the "feel" of Smiley Smile was what he wanted go with instead of the original SMiLE sessions. Why does it have to be that he wasn't telling the truth when he decided he'd rather put out an album like that. Obviously, his head was more in that way at the time, as people have said (i.e. "Busy Doin' Nothin'", "I Went to Sleep", etc').

It was obviously important for him to finish "Heroes" and as evidenced about the big to-do about bringing it to the radio station that one night, he still wanted to have it be a big deal. So, maybe his aesthetics switched. I am honestly a believer that he just wasn't into doin the SMiLE thing anymore, and he did what he wanted to do afterwards.
3044  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Brian & SMiLE on: August 18, 2010, 10:22:03 PM
So I know this is kinda a ballsy statement to make after BWPS, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Brian (after the original sessions) was never incredibly impressed by what he did with SMiLE. I honestly think he made the switch to Smiley Smile because that was where he was at mentally. Those were the kind of sounding records he wanted to make at that point, and he just wasn't interested in those big productions anymore, at least after finally finishing "Heroes And Villains".

But fast forward to today, I never really hear him mention it too much or anything anymore. The only songs I've read of him speaking of recently are things like "H & V" and "Surf's Up". I think more of the reason why he did BWPS was because of his wife and manager (yeah duh, I know), and to satisfy his band and his fans. I'm not sure it was that incredibly important to him as music as it was to just get people to shut up about it. Then again, I don't really know him, so I can't say. But it just seems to me that as soon as the BWPS era ended, Brian got back out of the SMiLE mindset and went back to the 68-02 version of himself, where SMiLE was the real weird material, too weird. I think he's accepted that like "H&V" and "SU" are two of his best compositions but I doubt we'd still see him saying things like "SMiLE is a 10, Pet Sounds is a 7" or something.

I know I haven't articulated this argument very well, but I just wanted to see what the rest of you guys think. Especially those of you that may know more about where Brian is at emotionally and where he places the SMiLE material now in his heart.
3045  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BRiAN WiLS0N LUVS U - 2012 on: August 17, 2010, 10:10:09 PM
What's up with the obsession with drugs "socoldigoburr". I mean I enjoy chemical stimulation a bit, but I think you are overdoing on  getting a schizophrenic 68 year old man high on blow. Or really anybody for that matter. Plus, I don't even think he was on any drugs during the Love You sessions. I don't think went back to that until like the MIU or LA period.

But otherwise, yeah it would be cool to see Brian do some more raw stuff however. I bet the coke gives him a heart attack and the hash would put him to sleep. And I'm afraid to see what the man would be after anohter hit of acid.
3046  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Brian's Liner/Website Notes on: August 11, 2010, 06:10:00 PM
Hey, so I was just reading the liner notes for the Friends/ 20/20 "two-fer". And I was thinking about how they used these back in the day on Brian's website and also in his "autobiography" if I remember correctly. Anyways, which came first, the "two-fer" notes or the book? Were these notes really by Brian? It was weird with him taking credit for "I Can Hear Music" and talking about Cabinessence like he made the track for that album specially. There were also notes that came from the book that were on the website, I can't remember for which albums. But yeah, anyways, whats up with all that?
3047  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson & Diane Rovell on: August 06, 2010, 12:26:46 PM
Yeah that 74 interview is quite interesting. I mean, not the content so much. But the voice yeah, you really do hear parts of the early smooth Brian and the later raspy Brian. And really thinkin' about it. I have to admit that the '74 version of Ding Dang doesn't TOTALLY sound like the guy we'd gotten to hear in the 12 proceeding years. The falsetto was a little more "The Night Was So Young" and "She's Got Rhythm" then "Don't Worry Baby" or even "Awake". But yeah, all this, plus the fact that it just sounds awesome, is the reason I need to hear the '74 California Feelin, along with Lucy Jones.

By the way, I'm just gonna cut the sh*t, can anybody make the '73 interview available for me to hear it. Please? For Me?
3048  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson & Diane Rovell on: August 05, 2010, 12:28:12 AM
anybody willing to put me in a position to be able to hear that 74 interview? Please?
3049  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson & Diane Rovell on: August 02, 2010, 11:48:09 PM
Interesting recording. This was done in '71 apparently, and heres a few of the vibes I get from it...

-He felt very proud of Spring and saw great things in them. Even into the late 80s or maybe even the 90s he would say things like how great a singer he thought Marilyn was, and so I think this was a project he really cared about. However, I think his interest was fleeting at this point and he would move from one thing to the next quite a bit, meaning the Spring album only got a bit of attention from him, just as the BB's albums at that time did (SU, CATP, Holland). I don't think he held anything against these projects, I just think post-SMiLE he just got bored easily. And then onto my next opinion.

-This was late night cheerfulness, when youre full of hope and big plans and somewhat delirious. He seemed to be on a real high (maybe literally and figuratively and was very positive about the group and what they were doing, but I wouldn't doubt he woke up the next afternoon without a care about it. Thats definitely something I can relate to. I don't really wanna bore you all with stories, but I have a musical project with my buddy, and I can be up all night working on a track, only to find the next day, I'm bored with it, and won't bother with it again for a while, if it all. And I think basically that is what Brian became after Sunflower or so. He would come up with the raw goods, but it just wouldn't hold his interest, and he would drift.

-Brian still considered himself a Beach Boy, I think it kinda rejects the David Leaf notion that he didn't wanna be in the group anymore after like Sunflower and Surf's Up. I think at least until the mid 90's he wanted to be part of the group, as evidenced by him wanting to produce them by the late 80s/early-mid 90s.  He still used words like we (I think) and whatnot when referring to them on this little tape, and thats just my two cents on that.

Just my opinion on this. I know I'm reading too much into it, but just listening to him and hearing him, and thinkin about his life at that point, I just get these vibes.
3050  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson & Diane Rovell on: August 02, 2010, 02:39:22 PM
This would be good if I could listen to this in the PM tonight. Ha.
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