[Wild Honey]

How is this not out there yet? Almost a day away now.

Also - interesting that Brian had a count-off before the 2nd verse of the '67 "Surf's Up". Could this have been the beginning of the basic track he intended to build upon?

And since my good friend runners has brought up "Surf's Up 1967" we might as well get to it. What do you all think that "Surf's Up 1967" was intended for? Wild Honey? Or the infamous ten-track SMiLE that was gonna come out after Smiley Smile. I guess since it was on the "County Air" reel or whatever that maybe that makes it a Wild Honey candidate, which would raise the level of the album even higher than it is right now, which is pretty high. As I said earlier, I think Smiley Smile with "Surf's Up" on it becomes a total classic, because I think "Surf's Up" was the ultimate release the album needed, just like Sgt. Pepper's needed "A Day in the Life". And imagine "Surf's Up" ending Wild Honey rather than "Mama Says". That would be pretty nuts. It would also make "How She Boogalooed It" sound even worse. I just wonder if it was just an off the cuff thing, but I imagine it wasn't, because he did like five takes apparently. My, how things would be different if it were on Wild Honey. Maybe it wouldn't repair their image totally, but I think it woulda been quite a big deal.

[SMiLE]

So, I don't think anybody probably has the answer, but do you all think Brian considers the development of what originally was "Da Da" in December, then apparently "All Day" as part of "Heroes And Villains" in January, then "Love To Say Dada" in May, and then worked on later in '67 and then '70 as "Cool Cool Water" and finally released too, in '70, to all basically be the same song?

Because if I remember correctly, he said something like he wrote "Cool Cool Water" when he first moved into his house on Bellagio, which would mean it was in 1967, which would not correlate with the composition of "Da Da" which evidently was composed in 1966.

And I am right that "All Day" equals "Da Da" or "I Love To Say Dada", right? Or am I wrong there?

I know this is all kinda just down to semantics, but it seems like the compilers of the box consider "Cool Cool Water" to be a "completion" of what began life as "Da Da". However, Brian didn't use "Cool Cool Water" for his solo version of SMiLE and instead "finished" it as "In Blue Hawaii". In retrospect, it's kinda weird that they did that, since there was basically a finished song in the can. Perhaps it was that the name Love would have to be on the writing credit for that if it were "Cool Cool Water", and we know how they felt about using the original "Good Vibrations" lyrics. I don't know. Interested to see if this intrigues anybody else or if I'm just freakin' nuts.

[SMiLE]

yeah it's funny because Capitol never has problems putting Beatle cds on the shelves..in fact my local target has a cool display that has not only Beatle cd's, but some reproductions of some of their 45's that come with a tshirt and the Ed Sullivan show dvd....

Good point.  Just for the sake of discussion, I'm wondering how everybody would feel if they were to find out there were going to be SMiLE display sections at all Urban Outfitters locations.  I know that Pet Sounds has been stocked on vinyl in their stores and probably still is.  Personally, I'd be cool with it, 'cause then I'd be able to grab a SMiLE shirt as well as the box set there and be happy.  But would I be annoyed when I saw five other people with the same shirt in the course of the next two weeks?  Hm, tricky.  I actually did buy a SMiLE shirt there about two years ago.  I couldn't believe it was there.  I'll post a picture if anybody is curious to see what it looked like.

You bought a SMiLE shirt at Urban? Really? That is weird. I would be interested to see that.

[TWO]

Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out you piece of shat! Go listen to your "fan mixes" because you are the artist!!!




Oh wait, no. Phil Cohen isn't an artist.

Brian Wilson is. And he's put out TWO versions of SMiLE that are making people very happy. Apparently not you though, Dikhead.

[The SMiLE Sessions]

No doubt, to Brian Wilson, the 2004 re-recording "Brian Wilson Presents Smile" is the "real" Smile.

As for the "Smile Sessions" box, there will always be the debate over whether the unfinished recordings should have been presented exactly "As Is"(as Brian left them when the project was abandoned in the Spring of 1967).

Many of you will respond by saying that we already do have the undoctored "As Is" recordings......and you're correct.

May I ask why Brian said he prefers The SMiLE Sessions then???

And if they left the "as is" as he left them in '67, would that mean they couldn't put the "bicycle rider" vocals on "Worms"? Of course they couldn't fly Brian's vocals onto "Surf's Up" then.  Just present "Child Is Father Of The Man" as an instrumental?

I mean, come on man. We are getting official Beach Boys versions of "Child Is Father Of The Man", "Holidays", "Surf's Up 1967", and "Look". We get MORE sessions than we already had.

I'm not saying the box is perfect, but it sure is more than I ever would have expected and I think you must have a horrible life to never find any positives in these things.

Also, calling AGD....we need you here to combat the stupidity of Cohen!

I'd say both. And there's no problem with that.

People being introduced to the music, people who don't own any "Smile" bootlegs(or few "Smile" bootlegs): these people will be delighted by the box set
........ but, to the avid collectors who have collected every circulating note of "Smile" music? Their responses will be mixed.

Yeah, this arsehole is totally a troll. Please re-ban this moron!!

He's stating what many of us have already said in the last 5 months.....and it is totally true. How is this trolling?

Because he's Phil Cohen and he lives to just be an downer. He has some odd interest in not giving this release credit. I don't think he's said ONE positive word about the entire release. And I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure NONE of those bootlegs had the breadth of sessions or as nice and clean versions of "Child Is Father Of The Man" or "Holidays".

You've heard Vigotone's fan mix, Sea of Tunes' fan mix, my fan mix, Purple Chick's fan mix....and soon you'll hear Mark Linett's fan mix, but are any of them the "real" "Smile"?

Maybe there's no such thing as the "real" "Smile", but Mark Linett's interpretation gives us a few more products to add to our collections.

Hey d*ckhead, were Sea of Tunes of Purple Chick authorized and given the thumbs up by the artist, Brian Wilson? Was the Phil Cohen version? Nope. So guess facking what?!? This is it baby!

People being introduced to the music, people who don't own any "Smile" bootlegs(or few "Smile" bootlegs): these people will be delighted by the box set
........ but, to the avid collectors who have collected every circulating note of "Smile" music? Their responses will be mixed.

Yeah, this arsehole is totally a troll. Please re-ban this moron!!

[Because it's very good ?]

Because it's a period, coherent edit and mono mix as opposed to something pieced together later from fragments ?  Because it's very good ?

OH NOW YOU'RE JUST TAUNTING US

Yup... and I'm pretty damn good, huh ? 

yes.

Weren't we given the sequence of this at some point? Not asking you for it, but I feel like the structure of this version is known.

Wait, I'm confused. I thought the Brian mono mix of an instrumental version of "Child..." has already been bootlegged. And it's about 3:09 long. Or I am mistaken?

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the "chimes" intro?

Also, on a separate issue, was it ever said what the "Surf's Up" session in January was? Was anything even recorded? I'm of the opinion that if nothing ever came up in the vaults, that nothing usable was probably there. I'm not one of those that thinks they recorded "movement 2"  or put a final vocal on it that day, or that he erased the lead for "Worms" or "Barnyard" or "I'm In Great Shape". I figure whatever is there is probably what was done.

[The SMiLE Sessions]

I gotta say, now that we know pretty much what we are going to be hearing on The SMiLE Sessions, I gotta say I can say I see where Al, Bruce, and Mike are coming from when they said that the album was basically a bunch of pieces/fragments/"music bites". I mean, for example, just look at all the "Heroes And Villains" sessions listed. These guys might have been recording vocals for this song for months and still not heard [what was thought to be] a finished product 'til February!

And then, yeah there were songs that could have been finished with just a lead vocal that were left laying around, like "Cabin Essence" and "Child Is Father Of The Man", and then Brian second guessing himself and recording second and third versions of "Wonderful"? And to leave something like "Surf's Up" just sitting there with the first movement completed but nothing else? I wonder after the beginning of January whether Brian really had any rhyme or reason to what he was doing. I didn't used to be of the opinion that Brian lost the plot of what SMiLE was supposed to be, but after thinking about what a mess the project was in, I can see why it was never finished.

Well obviously all your points are well taken but the other side to that coin is there are some very logical reasons as to why so much was left unfinished when it came to SMiLE.  I'm not sure if this theory has been debunked yet but as 1966 faded into 1967, Capitol started to get extremely antsy with Brian Wilson regarding new product.  Specifically they wanted "Heroes and Villains" the single that Brian had been promising them for months.  As the session logs show in early 1967 Brian began to set aside work on all of the other SMiLE tracks in order to devote his time exclusively to "Heroes and Villains".  

This could be looked at as a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul as all the time Brian devoted to "Heroes and Villains" during this period could have been used to bring "Surf's Up", "Cabinessence", "Do You Like Worms?" and a myriad of other tracks to virtual completion.  Of course the great irony is that Brian never truly completed a final mix of "Heroes and Villains" either despite the long hours he put into it during the month of 2/67.  

So basically what I'm trying to say is that there could be a highly logical reason as to why so many tracks were never finished straight away.  Of course that doesn't account for the months of March and April but you get my point I'm sure.

I definitely do see the point that he basically turned to "Heroes" after the beginning of the year to get "the single" out, and then he turns to "Vega-Tables", which then oddly at one point may have included a "Child Is Father Of The Man" section? I gotta believe by that point there was no hope for the album. They could've put verse vocals on "Child..." but instead they are recording it as a part of "Vega-Tables"? What?!?! Weird. And then after that, doesn't go back in the studio 'til May and starts ANOTHER new recording? It boggles the mind to think if there was any rhyme or reason to any of this. I gotta believe there wasn't.

I'm in the minority, but I actually like the production on most of the 85 album, minus "She Believes in Love Again" , "California Calling", "I'm So Lonely",  and (especially)"It's Just a Matter of Time". Personally I still think it's better production-wise than Still Cruisin and Summer in Paradise.

So would I be right if you're saying you really prefer the '80s production style? Because the songs you singled out, minus "She Believes in Love Again", all have less of the '80s sound the most of the rest of the album did.

[The SMiLE Sessions]

I gotta say, now that we know pretty much what we are going to be hearing on The SMiLE Sessions, I gotta say I can say I see where Al, Bruce, and Mike are coming from when they said that the album was basically a bunch of pieces/fragments/"music bites". I mean, for example, just look at all the "Heroes And Villains" sessions listed. These guys might have been recording vocals for this song for months and still not heard [what was thought to be] a finished product 'til February!

And then, yeah there were songs that could have been finished with just a lead vocal that were left laying around, like "Cabin Essence" and "Child Is Father Of The Man", and then Brian second guessing himself and recording second and third versions of "Wonderful"? And to leave something like "Surf's Up" just sitting there with the first movement completed but nothing else? I wonder after the beginning of January whether Brian really had any rhyme or reason to what he was doing. I didn't used to be of the opinion that Brian lost the plot of what SMiLE was supposed to be, but after thinking about what a mess the project was in, I can see why it was never finished.

Depending on how much credence you place upon the Leila testimony, this section may be part of the disc one version of CIFOTM that was sourced from acetate. Her description made it sound as if the track started with this piano/vocals bit.

Hmm, I wonder if there is a historical reason to start the song with that part, or if it's just there cuz it sounds good. I suppose we'll find out.

I know it isn't listed as "Child Is Father Of The Man" on the box anywhere, but is it possibly on their as a "Vega-Tables" session? I suppose this question is for those of you who are already "in the know" about the box.

I don't know, I just am so sick of their ilk trashing this board because they have a problem with the guy that owns it. And therefore seem to imply that this board is *amateur* music discussion.

What name?

When you click on the door, it says "The Beach Boys SMiLE Shop" on the next page  

Okay, judging from a semi-recent post on the SH board, someone's panties are going to be in a bunch over that.

EDITED because I felt I was too mean. But I still think certain people are real jerks despite them bringing people aboard the SMiLE train.

[SMiLE]

runners, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I see "Time To Get Alone" getting SO much attention, at least in my opinion, by boardies around here and whatnot. People say it seems like proof Brian still "had it" after the SMiLE sessions ended. But I don't see this particular song as any more proof of that than, say, "I Went to Sleep", "This Whole World", or "You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone." Those aren't a retread of the Pet Sounds philosophy like "TTGA" and they are way more enjoyable to me.

But everybody has their own favorites. So to his each his own.

And I love you too runners

[Pet Sounds]

I'm just gonna butt in here, and say that yes, it is a really good song, but I just cannot see why everybody is so into this song. Sure, its super well written, with great chord progressions, and wonderful singing, but so was a lot of the Boys late '60s/early '70s material. To me, it sounds like the Pet Sounds style being done two years later, with a bit more polish. I don't think the lyrics are any great shakes. The deep and wide part is breathtaking, but at the end of the day I just think it's another "pretty" song from the late middle phase of their career, a la "Our Sweet Love" or "Deirdre".


I gotta say though, I think Brian's 20/20 masterpiece was "I Went to Sleep." That is truly an overlooked work of genius. So sleepy, and so beautiful. Maybe my favorite BW song. Seriously.

[Endless Summer]

Two words: Endless Summer.

Andrew, do you think that's why the few songs that we know Brian wrote around the time of '74 like "Good Timin'" and "It's OK" went more back to more of their "glory days" type sound? Cuz I think something like "California Feelin'" still had more of that earthy Holland feel. I mean, 15 Big Ones in general was more of an Endless Summer response, but I think an album based around the Caribou sessions material would still have been a bit more progressive.

[California Feelin']

I'm not sure you ever return to this thread Alan, but I have a question of a few songs. During your vault trawl, were "Where Is She?", "Burlesque", "Rooftop Harry", or the medley of "Baby I Need Your Lovin'" and "Gimme Some Lovin'" found? How far along were these songs? Did they have vocals? What about "Boys and Girls" with a lead vocal? Or any other versions of "California Feelin'" besides the 1974 Brian version of the 1978 group version? I'm hoping we get to hear some (or all!) of these tracks next year because of the 50th anniversary.

is the 78 version of California Feelin' 's track performed by the band in 78 or by Brian and/or band in 74?
What about the version by American Spring? What info is found on that? besides Rocky P's shaky lead vocal

As far as I know, the '78 version for the Light Album was all recorded in '78, both track and vocals. Apparently the demo from '74 is just Brian and a piano. But i'm wondering if they possibly did a full band version in '74 or maybe a version for 15 Big Ones or M.I.U. (considering they were gonna name the album that).

I'm not sure you ever return to this thread Alan, but I have a question of a few songs. During your vault trawl, were "Where Is She?", "Burlesque", "Rooftop Harry", or the medley of "Baby I Need Your Lovin'" and "Gimme Some Lovin'" found? How far along were these songs? Did they have vocals? What about "Boys and Girls" with a lead vocal? Or any other versions of "California Feelin'" besides the 1974 Brian version of the 1978 group version? I'm hoping we get to hear some (or all!) of these tracks next year because of the 50th anniversary.