Soulful Old Man Sunshine, Desper`s Til I Die, studio Graduation Day, Sound of Free, Brian`s CA feeling from 1974, Ca Girls track, LDC demo, just to name a few.

David Leaf is a close and dear friend...he asked the BBs to interview for Beautiful Dreamer, but they declined. Loren Daro sincerely believes what he said. He and many other  people I have met through the years sincerely believe they are opening peoples`with acid. That it has "side effects" is ddoes not occur to them.

Arghh, judging by the list of those tracks, it seems like 1974 "California Feelin'" really is all it's cracked up to be. I really hope they include it in a release within the next year, as I'm assuming there will be at least one or two more Beach Boys releases for the 50th anniversary.

And here's the thing about Loren Daro. I think he's a moron for thinking giving drugs to Brian was a good thing. But I also get the vibe that you guys blame HIM for Brian taking acid. And I think that is f***ed up. It is Brian's fault that Brian took acid. It's just like when I've seen people I know die from a drug overdose and people blame the dealer, not realizing that the person who took the drugs is most at fault. So don't get me wrong, Loren Daro is sleazy, scummy, etc, but I think acting like it's all his fault Brian cracked up is wrong.

Well I wish I had the ability to help you find a publisher, but alas, I don't. Hopefully somebody will pick it up soon, and I can't see why they would't, as your posts here are always first rate and full of information. I could only imagine what a book would bring.

Sorry for taking the thread off-topic. But anyways, I'd love to see if there was anymore comments from Brian about those guys.

[How Deep Is The Ocean Surf's Up]

September 1st 1970: master for "2nd Warner Brothers LP" prepared. The tracks on the tape (as noted on the box label) were: Loop De Loop/Susie Cincinnati/San Miguel/H.E.L.P. (as in "... Is On The Way")/Take A Load Off Your Feet/Carnival/I Just Got My Pay/Good Time/Big Sur/My Lady (= "Fallin' In Love")/When Girls Get Together/Lookin' At Tomorrow/How Deep Is The Ocean Surf's Up (= 'Til I Die minus Brian's lead). Also scrawled on the box is "GRILLO HIPE". [Artisan Sounds ?]

Said assembly has been commonly (and incorrectly) known as Landlocked since the late 70s, hence my comment. 

Why the heck is "Til I Die" called "How Deep Is The Ocean Surf's Up"? I can understand "How Deep Is The Ocean", but is it a possibility that maybe although "Surf's Up" wasn't on the tape, maybe even at that point that were thinking about using the song on their next album? I don't know.

[Surf's Up]

Asked this in the Surf's Up box set thread but I'll ask it here too:

For BWPS, Brian asked Paul Mertens to add a string section for part 2.  My question: is that string arrangement something Brian remembered from 1967 and told Paul how it should go?  Or was that one of the 2003 improvements and "new things" added to BWPS?

I still ask, though I also understand that there was no actual string section recorded for part 2 in 1967, as Andrew notes above.

Well, even if it was something from 1967, we could hardly imagine that there'd be any similarities since it would be an entirely new arrangment written by a person who wasn't even around the original sessions.

But I would say that it is extremely unlikely bordering on impossible that this was a vintage idea. The 2003 idea is simply using the the Surf's Up LP model, which was forced to use the solo demo version for Part 2 in lieu of no actual studio recording of Part 2 turning up, and they added a string arrangment over top. Of course using a demo for a section quite simply would not have happened on a completed 1967 Smile. Moreover the 2003 string arrangement is just not in keeping with the Smile asethetic. So like I said in that same thread, while there are lots of gorgeous and wonderful versions of Smile (both on the sessions, the demo, the Wild Honey version, and on BWPS) we unfortunately have nothing that sounds like what the song would have sounded like had it been completed in 1967 for a completed Smile album.

I know what you're saying, but you know what? It doesn't really bother me. All of the versions of this song are beautiful, and I'm happy we have all of them.

And yes, it didn't sound exactly like it may have in 1967, but we have to remember that Brian contributed to and/or okayed all of the versions that are out there, including the Surf's Up version, the BWPS version, and The SMiLE Sessions version. And what I care about, is that the song hits me emotionally, and that the artist seems happy with it. And Brian is happy with all of those, so I won't waste time crying over spilt milk. It's kinda how I feel about SMiLE as a whole; sure, I'd really love it was finished the way Brian saw it at one point in 1966 or 1967, but it wasn't, and I'm happy that he's shared all that he has with us.

[Carl & The Passions]

He told me they were cool and talented.

Mike, we REALLY need that book from you. It's probably my most looked forward to Beach Boys item besides whatever new vault releases they are gonna put out.

But yeah, the Brian, Blondie, and Ricky situation is always one that I wondered about. They showed up in the band right as he was beginning to enter a period where he didn't contribute very much at all. I think that Carl & The Passions and Holland would have been a lot cooler if Brian would have contributed more in the vein he was writing in at that time. "Mess of Help" and "Marcella" are really nice rockers, and I think it could have been a really commercial sound for the boys if they went further that way in the '70s. They probably could have kept more the fans that dug "Surf's Up" and "Sail On Sailor".

But anyways, I think that had Blondie stayed, it also would've kept them from getting too "dorky" again like they did. His voice added an "edge" to the blend, but still really fit in, especially on "Funky Pretty" and "Sail On Sailor".

Hey, I posted this in another thread, but since you seem so good at this I think you should be the person to give it a shot at making a "fall 1966" "Heroes And Villains" version that includes the following:

• First Verse (ending w/ fluttertone)
• "I'm In Great Shape"
• "Heroes And Villains: Intro (early version)": which is called "part 3" if you listen to the track, which I guess what make "part 3" then, haha
• "??": not sure what you could use here, maybe the "three score and five" part?
• "Barnyard"

Or at least use the usual first verse up to the fluttertone and then "Great Shape", and then go crazy with the rest. I bed you'd do an awesome job!

[The SMiLE Sessions]

I think what would be interesting is somebody doing a version that includes "I'm In Great Shape" and possibly "Barnyard". I tried to do one that started with the usual first verse that ends with the fluttertone (as used on the "Early Version Outtake Sections" version) and then goes into "I'm In Great Shape", just like the Humble Harve demo. But I couldn't edit it to the point where the transition sounded right. What I then tried to do was tie in the end of "Great Shape" with the "early version" of the "intro", which if you listen closely is called "part 3". And then ended it with "Barnyard", because I guess that would be used as a fade. Or maybe not. But anyways, I think somebody good should try a version that goes like so:

• First Verse (ending w/ fluttertone)
• "I'm In Great Shape"
• "Heroes And Villains: Intro (early version)"
• "??"
• "Barnyard"

I imagine that is maybe what an October thru December version may have looked like. And I'm also kinda bummed Linnett and Boyd didn't try to do a version for The SMiLE Sessions set that used "I'm In Great Shape", as the Humble Harve demo is good of evidence as any that it was supposed to go that way at one point. And I figure if they could put together a "part two", or piece together "early version outtake sections" from January and February, why they couldn't have tried something similar for the fall version of "Heroes And Villains". That is probably my biggest bummer of the whole set, because this is something that could be done, whereas the lack of recorded lead vocals from 1966 and 1967 can't be remedied, since we don't have a time machine.

Anyways hope to see someone give this a shot.

...if there is a dearth of new material...

You know something the rest of us don't ?

I thought I said "if". But maybe it read as "since" to you Mr. Doe. If so, my apologies.

And since you sir, are a stickler for having the correct things listed on your site, I figured I'd give you a hand. On the "unreleased songs" page, you can now take off "Child Is Father Of The Man", "Don't Fight the Sea", "Friday Night", "I Ran/Look", "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", "The Old Master Painter", and "You Are My Sunshine".

And on the 1973 sessions/gigs page, you have a session for "Baby I Need Your Lovin'"/"I'm A Man", but I'm pretty sure the session was for "Baby I Need Your Lovin'"/"Gimme Some Lovin'", and took place in 1972. And also the November 14, 1967 session should be updated to also included "Surf's Up", along with "Country Air".

No hard feelings though Andrew, just wanna help you keep your page right, don't want the fans getting the wrong information.

["Love Ya"]

This is kinda off the Joe Thomas/Jeff Foskett discussion, but I hope that if Brian is revisiting older material for this album, he revisits these:

• "Love Ya" or "Sweetie: Catchy little rocker in either variation. I don't think Brian has many convincing latter day rockers, but these are great.
• "You're Still a Mystery": I think if they re-record Brian's lead, this could really work. A nice mature work, something BB fans would like to hear from a group at 50 years along.
• "Dancing the Night Away": A good surf type beat, some great Carl vocals, I think this one should be a shoo-in.
• "Water Builds Up": Catchy little ditty. Yes, the verse melody has already been used, but so what. I know Brian likes it, and if there is a dearth of new material, why not use this?

I personally hope he doesn't dive into an Landy-era material besides "Love Ya" and "Water Builds Up", cuz I don't think there is much left that I've heard from that era that is very special. The songs used on GIOMH weren't very special, and I don't know why "The Spirit of Rock & Roll" was recorded for Songs From Here & Back. That song has never been good. Whether is has bad '80's production or the bootleg Pet Sounds/Wondermints vibe.

And I don't really think that any of the Paley-era stuff besides "You're Still a Mystery" and "Dancing the Night Away" should be used. I always thought a lot of those songs were overrated. Like how people were so disappointed with Imagination compared to those songs? I don't think Imagination is a work of genius or anything, but I don't think much from the Paley sessions was even as good as that album, and I'm not sure that those songs would have made a great Beach Boys songs.

And as far as things like "Where is She?", the demo of "California Feelin'", and "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again" from the '60s and '70s, I hope those songs get released, but hopefully not with latter day overdubs.

I think this version of "Barnyard" is just awesome. Can't believe you got it to sound that good.

"I'm In Great Shape" though, I prefer the official version. I think it really works that way.

I stand to be corrected, but I'm pretty sure his last session ever was for a song called "Labor Day", which was recorded on September 3, 1982. As far as I know, both piano and vocals were recorded.

As far as his last Beach Boys session, well that's tricky. As of now, his last released Beach Boys session is for "Endless Harmony." But I suppose maybe you could his last "Beach Boys" session could be considered "Stevie" or the cocaine tapes?? (Not sure about this one)

[P]

Hey does anybody remember that version of "Don't Worry Baby" from 1995 where Brian sang the lead live in Las Vegas? He did it in the original key if I can remember. Anybody know if that is floating around the interwebs anywhere? Possibly? Maybe?

@ teh sweet one: Rubin's pretty hack-y and has been "hands off" with the majority of his works for the last 20 years, red and Make Believe are no exception. I've heard people who worked with him when he *was* hands on complain about continuing to work with him, saying he'd come in for 15 minutes at the end of the session saying things like, "Is that digital?" and, "It's off, listen! It's off!" at a backwards guitar track.

His approach is interesting*, I'm sure it's done some great things for some people (I happen to think the red album is really good, for instance), but I think it requires a strong, disciplined, and willing creative force in the studio as well. That's not to say they don't exist in the Beach Boys, but I think it'd be a lot easier for distractions and bickering to come back and derail the project.

* While I say "interesting", I think it's a tad ridiculous that the guy likely gets paid millions to turn very little knobs but just come in and say, "The melody needs a lift," or, "Write a new chorus."

While I know nothing of his work with Radiohead, Nigel Godrich's work on Beck's Sea Change is really good. Lots of layers and atmosphere but little actual reverb on vocals, drums etc. which is pretty interesting. He might have been a good choice. Again, I won't discredit Joe's work until it's finished, as I've heard nothing from him in 13 years and maybe he's come to realize the Imagination-style production is extremely inappropriate for this.

There is little to no chance Nigel Godrich would work with The Beach Boys. I get the feeling that artist has to pursue him, and I doubt any of the boys would do that, minus Bruce maybe. But anyways, I seem to remember he really was quite of a dick to Paul McCartney, for instance telling him stuff like "that song sucks" or "re-write that one and then come back". Could you imagine him saying stuff like that to Brian Wilson? If he did, I'm scared that Brian would never write or record a new song after that ever again. So let's keep Nigel out of the project.

And by the way, I know Nigel was tough on Paul, but I wonder if he had the same up-front ballsiness when Thom Yorke pukes up a shitty clickety-clackity piece of computer garbage. I don't seem him being quite as rude. Maybe I'm wrong though. By the way, I am a Radiohead fan, but sometimes Thom is a bit much.

I've actually warmed up to the Joe Thomas idea a lot quicker than I ever thought I would.

[Today!]

I want to hear the version from 1974 or 1975 where Brian's old voice is turning into his gruff voice. To hear Brian's old voice change into his gruff voice sounds absolutely heartbreaking.

I don't think it would be "heartbreaking". The guy did what he wanted with his voice for the most part. It's not like he died in 1975. Still the same guy. And in fact, I'm beginning to think the "Back Home" type vocal was intentional or even just a put-on. Yes, his voice was changing in the mid-70s, but I think it was gonna change no matter what.

And yeah, "In the Back of My Mind" is a top track. Along with "Please Let Me Wonder", one of the top on Today!

[Licensed to Ill]

Ok, so Rick Rubin may be a bit too "dry and minimalist" for some tastes on this board...how about someone like Roy Thomas Baker who is very good at getting huge vocal sounds ?

No, I think RTB is too glammy, hard rock, butt-rock, for my taste. Honestly I'd rather have Joe Thomas. Jeff Lynne honestly might be cool too. I feel like he takes the '60s sound and modernizes it, for better or worse. And Rick Rubin, well I just don't think he's that great of a producer. Licensed to Ill is surely the worst produced Beastie Boys album, and has dated horribly. The Red Hot Chili Peppers succeed despite of his production, and in my opinion he his production nearly single handled ruined Weezer's Make Believe. His production on Weezer's red album was also pretty shitty, by and large. I wouldn't doubt that my friend runnersdialzero agree's with me on that one. I think he set up a good environment for Johnny Cash's last performances, but I think him staying away from the knobs is what made those albums good.

I honestly think the production will be reasonable even if Joe Thomas is producing. The one thing about the boys recently, is it seems they DO listen to the fans. And I'm sure Brian's team knows how many feel about Imagination. So I think that will be taken in mind. I think the vocals on the new album will sound wonderful, and I hope the sound is mellow and pretty, but not too bright. I'd like something like Imagination, just with a little less nylon string guitar and cheesy tinkling keyboards.

[Pet Sounds]

I think "Child Is Father Of The Man" has a Pet Sounds like sound to it. It doesn't have as much of the colorful "psychedelic" sound as most of the rest of SMiLE does, and it strikes me as "serious" music, like nearly all of Pet Sounds does. I'd also say that musically "Surf's Up" also seems somewhat in line with the Pet Sounds aesthetic, although I think the lyrics don't so much. But yeah, I think "Child..." could definitely fit snugly on Pet Sounds.

As far as songs from Pet Sounds fitting in on SMiLE, I think maybe "Here Today" with different lyrics could. Maybe "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times". And the title track, too.

[Studio:]

First off, I wanna say that I don't wanna be counted among those who "hate" Jeff Foskett. My only problem is that his current band's harmony blend sounds like the Backstreet Boys, and that Jeff's falsetto (for the most part) has annoyed the living piss out of me. I think that live, yes, he should be around, but in the studio with the combination of Brian, Al, and Bruce, I'm sure they could pull off the needed falsetto parts. And if they didn't want to, then use Adam Jardine, who sounds way better. But then, at the same time, if that is what Brian Wilson himself truly wants, then that should be what goes.

And lastly, I have to think that ultimately what dictates the reunion is how Brian feels. And if he for some reason didn't want Bruce or Al there, I'd bet that wouldn't be. So maybe the Brian, Al, Bruce, Mike lineup is the one that works best for Brian in the studio.

So hey, have it this way:

Studio: Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce
Live: Brian (if he wants to), Mike, Al, Bruce, Dave, Blondie?, Ricky?

Dave gets to be part of the "reunion", and so do Blondie and Ricky if they even have any interest.

[Today!]

So yeah, the David Marks thing. I've read Jon Stebbins book about David, and I definitely understand that he was on the first three (or four?) albums and played on some major, major hits. He was in the band for 2 years in the '60s. Then we have Blondie Chaplin. Who I think also would majorly deserve to be part of the group too. I think Mr. Stebbins is all for David's return because he got close to him while writing his book. I'm sure if he wrote a book on Blondie Chaplin, he would be in his cheering section too. Btw, no offense intended, Mr. Stebbins. Anyways, back to the my point. Blondie sang on "Sail On Sailor", rightly recognized as one of the last Beach Boys classics. He was on three albums, and was in the band for nearly two years. Then you got Ricky, who also played on three albums.

Maybe it's just me, but I think the main reason there is an uprising for David is that he's kinda had a rough go at life since he left The Beach Boys, whereas somebody like Blondie is ok since he's since played with The Band and The Rolling Stones.

Now, David seems like an awesome guy (I'd probably like to hang out with him more than Mike Love or Bruce Johnston or Jeff Foskett) and he's a great musician, but I'm also gonna throw out a guess here and say this album (and the reunion in general) is gonna portray the group as the "artists" that made Today!, Pet Sounds, SMiLE, and Sunflower, ALONG with those early hits. That may have been a way to get Brian involved. To have it be less Mike-centric than the 25th anniversary and the Stars & Stripes reunions were. Honestly, I would say it woulda made more sense to have David on Stars & Stripes, as that focused more on the early material.

Now, its verrrry possible I'm way off the mark here. But that's just my opinion.

I also gotta say, it looks like it's gonna be a (what's left of) "classic-era" reunion. Which means you get Brian, Mike, Al, and Bruce. Just as if The Byrds reunited, you'd get Jim McGuinn, David Crosby, and Chris Hillman. Even though Gene Parsons and John York played on albums (and hits) they won't be part of reunion, because most likely they will wanna portray the most "classic" lineup.

If it was up to me, I would LOVE for the 2012 Beach Boys to be Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston, David Marks, Blondie Chaplin, and Ricky Fataar, but it just ain't gonna happen.

[SMiLE]

I honestly think if he really wanted to, Brian could do the falsettos. If he took his time. But that probably won't happen. Then you also got Bruce, who I think could probably still do a passable falsetto.

And about the album....

Well, myself, I think that this being a Beach Boys album would be much more interesting than if it's just another Brian Wilson solo album. I mean, although I think Mike is still an asshole for his liner notes in the SMiLE, wouldn't it make more sense that instead of having Beach Boys soundalike vocals, why not have the actual Beach Boys doing it!? Yes, it's been like 15 years since their last album, but I'm pretty sure Brian, Al, Mike, and Bruce could still bring us some very sweet vocals. And nothing against Darian, Scott, Probyn, and all them but I'll take The Beach Boys over them. I also hope the majority of the album is written by Brian. And maybe give Dr. Love a few songs to write lyrics for, to prove he can write a latter day lyric that doesn't the words "fun, fun, fun", "good vibrations", or "America's band".

[SMiLE]

So I guess SMiLE as we know it was scrapped around the end of December most likely. Then the search for the right combination of parts to make "Heroes And Villains" a hit. But then....I wonder if maybe around April there was an attempt to remake SMiLE as a stripped down piano type thing. You have "Vega-Tables", "Wonderful", and "Child Is Father Of The Man." You could even throw the December "Surf's Up" piano demo in there too I guess. My guess is maybe that Brian didn't think the piano-driven thing would work out so well, so then he tried an even more laid back, chilled out, organ led thing, which ended up being Smiley Smile.

The only thing I just still don't understand is why he didn't put "Surf's Up" on there. I still think that the release of that song in 1967 would have really helped out The Beach Boys image. The lack of "Cabin Essence", "Do You Like Worms", and "Child Is Father Of The Man" would have really sucked, but I think "Surf's Up 1967" shows that the song probably could have worked given Smiley treatment too.

And may I add that it's gotten me all stressed out.     Will take your word for it, Andrew.   

I get the impression that the uber-editing made it unclear to the sessionographer.

Well, not exactly, I was just given the directive that the "sessionography" be just that...in the limited amount of space we had, I had to provide credits not so much for each individual "track" but rather for each individual "session".  But granted, I knew going in it would be a bit messy, 'cause that's the nature of the beast.  If it had been any other Beach Boys album, it woulda been tons easier.  Having said that, I'm kicking myself raw that I left the "Tag vocals" credit off the first version of "Wind Chimes".  Honestly, it bums me out to no small extent that I missed that!  But at least I got the info for that session in there (date, location, etc.), so I only feel 50% as bad as I could feel!

By the way, you did an AWESOME job!

Based on the new box set and the reviews, I think we have a better idea of what Brian was thinking with the song Heroes and Villains.

First version:
Heroes verses/Great Shape/Barnyard - this is the demo version from Nov 4.  "We're still working."  An early pre Van Dyke version may have had My Only Sunshine as part of the song (May) but this is version was erased.

Late Nov/early Dec:
Heroes/Great Shape/"chimes" intro/Barnyard - chimes intro is slated as "Heroes Part 3."  In addition there's a report that the "sunny down snuff" section was attempted but not recorded in December, this would presumably have been between the chimes intro and Barnyard.

If this is well after the track list, then Great Shape/Barnyard have moved into their own track, and we move on to:

January:
Heroes/Bicycle Rider/Bag of Tricks/3rd verse/part 1 tag

Bag of Tricks replaces chimes intro.  "Bridge to Indians" is a transition piece to Bicycle Rider, "pick up to 3rd verse precedes the 3rd verse ("3 score and 5"), and by this point the a capella verse is probably somewhere in there,  probably after Bicycle Rider.  Not sure where or if the version of Do a Lot here would fit somewhere.

February:
Cantina version - cantina replaces BR, tag is now false Barnyard, Bag of Tricks/intro is gone, my children were raised is added .

With Part 1 completed, end of February/March 1 & 2 are devoted to Part 2 except for the bizarre attempt to rerecord the verse tracking.

Hey Bicyclerider, have you (or a anybody else) tried a to make a mix of the "Heroes"/"Great Shape"/Chimes/"Barnyard" idea? I tried, but wasn't too happy with my attempt. Hopefully somebody can pull it off decently.

Also, I gotta say my only major disappointment with the box is that they didn't find/try a mix of "Heroes And Villains" than shoehorned both "I'm In Great Shape" and "Barnyard" in. I'd say there is enough "historical evidence" to give it some weight, and even if they wanted to stay away from labeling it as a true attempt at another version, they could call it a "sections" piece like the "Heroes" sections tracks on discs 1 and 4.

So apparently, if you get the box set there are no details for the basic disc 1 album as far as I can tell. There are notes spread throughout the notes on the sessions for discs 2 thru 5 but that is it. Am I right on this, or is there details somewhere else in the box. It just kinda seems odd that even though they went so in depth with who plays what and where on discs 2 thru 5, but one can't find the info on the basic completed or nearly-completed tracks on the first disc.

Anyways, hopefully somebody else didn't already post something like this.

[Top 5 before]

Top 5 before

1. Pet Sounds
2. Sunflower
3. Love You
4. Today!
5. Wild Honey

Top 5 counting The SMiLE Sessions [even though I haven't heard it yet]

1. Pet Sounds
2. The SMiLE Sessions
3. Sunflower
4. Love You
5. Today!

[The Pet Sounds Sessions]

Brian's leads on the early versions of "Here Today" and "God Only Knows"

Where is this Brian lead on "Here Today" I've never heard of this? I have The Pet Sounds Sessions box, but I'm not familiar with this. Is it on there?