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680597 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 08:17:20 AM
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2751  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Can a Reunion Tour Have Two Band Leaders? on: January 17, 2012, 02:00:16 PM
Well, I'll put it this way: on stage Mike Love will be the guy that talks to the audience, and introduces the songs, maybe aside from a little Bruce here, and a little Al there, and maybe a little Brian. But I think the setlists will be a compromise between Brian/Melinda and Mike.

Like, for instance, I would imagine we won't get stuck with stuff like "Surf City", "Little Old Lady from Pasadena", and "Duke of Earl" like the Mike/Bruce contingency is known to include. And I'd think the "rarities" included won't be stuff like "Still Cruisin'".

All I hope is that we get a setlist that shows off early surf 'n car songs, introspective material like "Please Let Me Wonder", some Pet Sounds and SMiLE and a llttle helping of '70s material like "This Whole World", "Sail On, Sailor", and "Good Timin'". That would be just fine.
2752  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Can a Reunion Tour Have Two Band Leaders? on: January 17, 2012, 11:33:47 AM
"Can a Reunion Tour Have Two Band Leaders ?"

No, which is why I suspect there will be just the one calling the overall shots (after consultation with the other principals).

And given that I have no doubt Brian has any real interest in doing so, that means it's Mr. Love.

Well, I hope he does a good job.

I could see why you would say its Mike. And maybe that is true. But my guess is it's Brian, with Jeff as his mouthpiece, considering the fact that they are using Brian's band as the backing band, even though Mike's band has been touring for the last God knows how long as The Beach Boys. Plus, lets be honest, Brian holds all the cards in his hands. If this tour takes place without him, it's a minor blip. If he is part of it, its BRIAN WILSON IS BACK WITH THE BEACH BOYS on major media outlets.
2753  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Stamos In Reunion on: January 16, 2012, 06:27:32 PM
Filledplage, you do understand I was sticking up for the Smiley Smile community with my post, right? I was pointing out that certain others on other forums seem to long down upon us.
2754  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Stamos In Reunion on: January 16, 2012, 03:57:41 PM
You're kind of a scumbag and The Beach Boys owe nothing to you or any others of your entitled ilk.

Niiiiiiiiiiice.

You got anything worthwhile to post here, Spacecase?  Been reading your posts lately and it seems like you're on this board just to start some sh!t here.  Why is that?

Because he has an issue with the guy that started this board. Even though most of us don't even know who that guy is, and have never had any contact with that person. Most of us are just looking for a place on the internet to discuss The Beach Boys. But we're idiots.

Hopefully the poster in question will get over this and participate in a less sarcastic and bitter manner.
2755  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Will harmony reign on Beach Boys tour? USA Today on: January 10, 2012, 07:39:56 PM
My thing is I haven't really seen the other members pushing their accomplishments quite as much. You never saw Carl bragging like "hey, I sang 'God Only Knows' and 'Good Vibrations', and co-wrote 'Dance, Dance, Dance' and 'Good Timin''." Or Dennis bragging that he had a solo album that was critically loved. Even Al doesn't brag about bringing "Sloop John B" to Brian's attention or for singing "Help Me Rhonda".  Even Brian doesn't go around saying, "hey I wrote Pet Sounds and SMiLE, and by the way, did you know I wrote "California Girls"?"

The only member that constantly pushes their accomplishments is Mike. He has a lot to be proud of, but let the work speak for itself. He has a lot of great lyrics and a lot of great singing during his career and hopefully more to come. But taking credit for things like naming Pet Sounds? Who cares that he did that? It's a cool title, but it's nothing to brag about.

And I think in retrospect, Bruce saying how SMiLE should've been released on EMI's classical label is just a fancy way of saying "it wasn't right for The Beach Boys." I think he buys into the theory that The Beach Boys are, first and foremost, a fun, sun, surf, and girls band. And that all that goofy stuff from 1968 til 1977(ish) is unimportant overly artistic crap, except for "Disney Girls" of course. But even t hat is not as good as "I Write the Songs", cuz "I Write the Songs" sold more copies, which must mean its better.
2756  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Will harmony reign on Beach Boys tour? USA Today on: January 10, 2012, 02:03:56 PM
Honestly, its not Mike that annoys me by putting himself up there as the equal of Brian, its the Robin to his Batman. You might know him as Bruce Johnston. Note in the press release where he says something like, "I will be looking forward to singing Brian Wilson's melodies and Mike Love's lyrics once again in concert."

I just think that reeks of Bruce trying to somewhat re-write history by making it sound like Mike was the bands main lyric writer, which just isn't true. Unless of course they aren't singing Roger Christian, Gary Usher, Van Dyke Parks, Tony Asher, etc. lyrics. Mike's mouthpiece (Bruce) can try to spin it whatever way he wants, but it was the drug addicted, mentally ill guy who was the biggest player in the group, not the fun-in-the-sun, meditating. non drug user. Personally, I like Mike, and he was a very big deal in the band, but he was definitely NOT Brian's equal. And I resent that Bruce tries to spin it that way. Bruce has this real underhanded way of insulting Brian in interviews too.  Not in this press release, but yeah.
2757  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The song \ on: January 10, 2012, 01:30:35 PM
Anybody know where to find "Ten Years Harmony"? That was the original version of this song, which I think was released by California Music?
2758  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rock & Other Four Letter Words: complete Brian 1968 interview online on: January 08, 2012, 03:04:03 PM
Time To Get Alone (Brian sings most of the lead and wrote it),  Our Prayer, Cottonfields, Cabinessence all had Brian adding new things to them with the last 3 Brian productions. I don't think that's shabby.

Sorry, but I think that's the exact definition of shabby. First, he doesn't sing most of the lead on Time to Get Alone. Yes, Brian wrote it, a year earlier. In other words, what I said was exactly true - the man who had written nearly all the original material up to this point  brought exactly zero new songs to sessions where 12 or so new songs were recorded. I'd say that is exactly backing away. And I'd be curious to know what his contributions to Our Prayer, Cottonfields, Cabinessence were. He certainly doesn't add too much vocally whereas he was all over the vocals recorded that summer. Compared to his work just months before, this constitutes a signficant break.

I kinda agree with rockandroll. Although I do have a few points to make. Brian does sing the chorus of "Time to Get Alone", which is quite a bit of it. So that's "new" work. And he did produce the 20/20 version of "Cotton Fields". So I'll give Mike Eder credit for those. But from what I've known, Brian wasn't involved in the 1968 work on "Our Prayer" and "Cabinessence". And basically overall, the only 20/20 songs to substantially have 1968 Brian involvement were "Do It Again", "Cotton Fields", "I Went to Sleep" and "Time to Get Alone". And basically the only new song he had on 20/20 was "I Went to Sleep".

So yeah, that's a lot less than Friends.
2759  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rock & Other Four Letter Words: complete Brian 1968 interview online on: January 06, 2012, 06:26:03 AM
Time To Get Alone (Brian sings most of the lead and wrote it),  Our Prayer, Cottonfields, Cabinessence all had Brian adding new things to them with the last 3 Brian productions. I don't think that's shabby.

The "Surf's Up" thing interests me. Because he eventually worked on that too, and according to Jack Rieley, he promised him he'd put it on the next album. I don't wanna have you spill the beans if its something you wanna hold for your book, but I'm kinda wondering what exactly it was.
He did come around on it, but I think it marked a turning point as far as Brian's desire to work with the group. I don't know if he told Jack that or not. Rieley's stories are a little hard to take 100 percent on face value.

 I may have even mentioned why "Surf's Up" was seen differently by him before, but yes right now I am afraid I have to make this one a teaser.

Fair enough! Now get that book out!
2760  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rock & Other Four Letter Words: complete Brian 1968 interview online on: January 05, 2012, 10:00:23 PM
Time To Get Alone (Brian sings most of the lead and wrote it),  Our Prayer, Cottonfields, Cabinessence all had Brian adding new things to them with the last 3 Brian productions. I don't think that's shabby.

The "Surf's Up" thing interests me. Because he eventually worked on that too, and according to Jack Rieley, he promised him he'd put it on the next album. I don't wanna have you spill the beans if its something you wanna hold for your book, but I'm kinda wondering what exactly it was.
2761  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Is Bambu all that great?? on: January 05, 2012, 05:28:10 PM
I think the sequencing of Bambu is a relevant thing to consider. Some of us lobbied to have Tug Of Love be the lead track on the Bambu disc instead of a bonus. That song would have undoubtedly been on a released Bambu, as it was a hair from being on POB. Add that, Baby Blue, and peel a weaker tune or two from the Bambu disc and you've got a great record. Its different, darker, and yes more '70's "rock" sounding than POB, which I prefer. But I think Dennis was trying to evolve with Bambu, and he was doing it with a monkey on his back. I think Love Remember Me, and C0cktails are among his best things. Listen to the track of C0cktails...its a '70's Pet Sounds track. Album Tag Song is a '70's Smile track. And the fact that anything began life during POB sessions or earlier is irrelevant as Dennis, like Brian was always recycling ideas and using bits of older things...Only With You is just another one.  To me the least palatable song on the Bambu disc is All Alone which to me reeks of the worst things about what was coming in the Adult Contemporary world, I just hate that tenor sax sound, and the overall production of All Alone is very un-Dennis if you ask me. Bambu is kind of messy, and sad...but the best of it meets the DW standard of greatness.

I was hoping to get your opinion, Jon, and I gotta say I really agree with you on much of that. You kinda hit the nail on the head about "All Alone" being super schlock that woulda fit in on the same radio stations that would be playing "Kokomo" and the new Journey record. Also, I'm not asking for it, but is the second version of "All Alone" circulating? And how is it compared to the version we have?

But anyways Mr. Stebbins, can you explain how the process of placing the tracks on the reissued Pacific Ocean Blue? For instance, why were "Tug of Love" and "Only With You" considered bonus tracks for POB, if, as you claim, they should have been part of the Bambu listing. And I'm not doubting you, but why is it you think "Tug of Love" would have been on Bambu, if it was passed over for POB?

Also, does anybody in the know think it is at all possible that Brother/Capitol/whoever would possibly release a Dennis solo album from his late '60s and early '70s material? Or does that all count as "Beach Boys" material? Well regardless, hopefully this 50th anniversary gets us some new, unreleased Dennis songs!
2762  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Is Bambu all that great?? on: January 05, 2012, 12:08:33 PM
I agree with the OP in that Bambu doesn't come close to POB. I think there are a number of reasons for that. Dennis's voice was obviously gone, some of Carli Munoz's material stands out like a sore thumb and there is a dated feel to a lot of it for me.

That is definitely one of my feelings about Bambu. Especially stuff like "Constant Companion" just reeks of cheesy '70s radio. There are a few other songs too that have that really '70s vibe, whereas I feel most of Pacific Ocean Blue has a timeless quality.

Also, I didn't speak on the bonus tracks for disc 1, but....wow. "Tug of Love" is great, just as good if not better than anything on Pacific Ocean Blue which is saying a lot. I also love his version of "Only With You", whereas I'm not so hot on The Beach Boys version. I feel his voice fits the song better than Carl's.

But what I think would really be awesome is an album collecting that best (and most finished) of his work from 1967 to 1974. I really think that era deserves to be fleshed out more so we can understand Dennis as an artist a bit more. I'd also love to hear whatever he did between 1980 and 1983. Especially his supposed last recording, "Labor Day".
2763  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rock & Other Four Letter Words: complete Brian 1968 interview online on: January 04, 2012, 11:47:36 PM
Quote
Well you have to remember he did stay pretty active as a songwriter through early 1970, and was a pretty frequent presence through 1971. It was gradual I feel.

True, but after Friends (and the Ole Man River / Walk On By sessions), ultimate control of the group's direction was clearly taken from Brian and he went into a deep funk. Although he still contributed to the early 70s albums, he was no longer in charge. Big difference. Friends was the last through and through "Brian album" until "Love You" nearly 10 years later.


,
Not true. It wasn't taken, and until the use of Surf's Up, Brian's word was law. This was confirmed by everyone I talked to for my book there at the time.  It was a natural evolution that the others would began writing and producing something Brian had some initial mixed feelings about but loved more than loathed. Again Brian had depression on and off way before this, and for him Smiley Smile to Surf's Up wasn't unhappy much at all.....at least in the studio. Carl felt Brian changed during the So Tough sessions, and as odd as this sounds the trip to Holland seemed to have made him worse. Still it was Murry's death that totally changed Brian and if one listens to the early seventies interviews one can see a big difference from the" Brian is Back" period and later. Never mind the further damage done by Landy in the 80's. I'm not putting Brian down for any of this, it's just what happened. I wrote a book that hopefully will further the work done by Andrew Doe and Jon Stebbins as far as laying myths to bed once and for all. Brian and the group got along fine, for the most part, in the sixties and very early seventies. Please read this for more details. http://www.examiner.com/pop-culture-in-national/i-can-hear-music-author-mike-eder-reveals-his-dream-project-on-the-beach-boys-1

I never saw that Carl ever said Brian seemed to have changed during the Carl & The Passions sessions. Where'd you read/hear that? It's just quite interesting.

Anyways, I agree with Mike that Brian still was the number 1 guy in the group at least through probably Surf's Up. He might not be the producer, but you can hear him all over Sunflower and you can hear him pretty well on quite a few of the songs from Surf's Up. It does seem that on Carl & The Passions he did kinda seem to disappear. Even though he wrote three songs for the album, one doesn't seem to hear him as much in the blend and he has no lead vocals. This might have been the point where he really started getting depressed and therefore not as reliable to be around.
2764  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Is Bambu all that great?? on: January 04, 2012, 09:30:29 PM
So, I've had the reissued Pacific Ocean Blue, with the Bambu tracks on the second disc, and I gotta say, I don't think Bambu comes anywhere close to Pacific Ocean Blue. There is definitely nothing that comes close to the majesty of "River Song" or "Farewell My Friend", and I don't think anything rocks like "What's Wrong" or "Friday Night".

But anyways, am I approaching the material wrong or something? Because it's kinda starting to become clear to me that maybe the reason it wasn't put out was because Dennis knew what he had with that album wasn't really up to par. He had a few great songs, like "Love Surrounds Me", "Love Remember Me", and "Baby Blue". And obviously, two of those three, were released in Dennis' lifetime. I really think that many of the songs weren't really fully formed, a lot of little pieces, but I don't think they sounded coherent together, unlike, say, SMiLE, which had many parts, but I don't feel was disjointed. The only song I really felt that kinda thing worked with was the "Album Tag Song". And while I'm at it, what's up with that title? So was that supposed to be the final song, or a section of another song? Just seems odd. But I think its a really powerful song. And by the way, wasn't this Dennis' last released vocal. It was from '79 or '80 right?

So yeah, feel free to disagree with me, I hope to hear this album in a different way.
2765  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Finding the board on: January 04, 2012, 05:56:00 PM
blah
2766  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Surfs Up Coda - Brian's Involvement on: January 01, 2012, 11:16:43 PM
Thank you very much for the info guys. And I'd defintely not heard the same went for cool cool water!

So how did he affect that one then? The running order and splicing water chant into the middle etc? Do people think that was a smile intention he was playing out also?

The water chant was recorded during the Wild Honey sessions, specifically for Cool Cool Water, so I would say not.

COMMENT:  NO it was not. The chant is or was part of the original Smile sessions recorded at Columbia Studios by Brian. He was not involved in the CCW released on "Sunflower." Carl used the chant to tie the first and last sections together. It was his creative decision. The original chant was not a chant. It was a song about a baby with the title, "I love to say Dada." It was never finished or released. ~swd


PS  WILL SOMEONE FIX THIS DAMN SOFTWARE!!!

You say Brian wasn't involved in Sunflower version of "Cool, Cool Water",  but wasn't the second half of the song recorded in 1970? You know, the parts with Brian and Mike both taking the lead? Or was this from 1967 also?
2767  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Surfs Up Coda - Brian's Involvement on: January 01, 2012, 10:30:44 PM
Since I was practically living in Brian's house and certainly at the studio most of the time, what is it that you wish to know?
~ Stephen W. Desper

Wow. Nice to see you in this thread Mr. Depser. Your work on Sunflower and Surf's Up is magnificent. Anyways, my questions for you would be Brian's level of involvement on "Surf's Up" and "Cool, Cool Water".
2768  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Surfs Up Coda - Brian's Involvement on: January 01, 2012, 04:06:42 PM
Thank you very much for the info guys. And I'd defintely not heard the same went for cool cool water!

So how did he affect that one then? The running order and splicing water chant into the middle etc? Do people think that was a smile intention he was playing out also?

I'm actually pretty sure he said something like "it fits alright, but there is something not quite right about it", referring to the "water chant" section in "Cool Cool Water".

However, when asked lately about the song like on the podcasts for The Warmth of the Sun compilation, he said it was one of his very favorites, if I recall correctly.

As far as why "Cool Cool Water" was on Sunflower I think it was Larry Waronker who heard Brian playing the song on his piano in 1970 or so, and asked them to put the song on the album so they did.

And then, "Surf's Up", apparently Jack Rieley asked Brian to put the song on the album which became Surf's Up, and he promised him he would, even going as far as to help Carl and Jack at some points. He also apparently tried to lead vocal for the first section, but decided it was better for Carl to do it. And then yes, the story about the coda, as already has been related. Van Dyke Parks also takes credit for saying something like "title the album Surf's Up and put the song on there and the album will move (however many) units".
2769  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Down by the Pier on: December 30, 2011, 10:28:18 PM
All  I know is apparently Brian really hated it.

Wasn't this from the sessions from The Beach Boys?

Where did you hear Brian hated it? And why?
2770  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sign the petition to include Blondie and Ricky in the 2012 Reunion! on: December 30, 2011, 02:03:35 PM
You know what, I probably wouldn't be all for them being total members for the 50th anniversary if David wasn't. And this is nothing against David. I read Jon's book about him and really dig the guy. But my thing is I just don't understand how David Marks should automatically be in the group, but Blondie and Ricky shouldn't. That is it. Both Blondie, Ricky, and David were in the band for a much shorter time than the rest of the members. All three of them are somewhat "forgotten" (or never even noticed) by the public. So my thing is, well, it should be all three, or none of the three. Yes, I understand David was on "Surfin' USA" and "Surfer Girl" and so on, but still, on the same hand I can say Blondie sang the lead on the first song of what is now known as one of their more well known albums. And Ricky played drums on the same crucial album. So there is pluses and minuses for all. But I just don't understand the allegiance to David at the expense of Blondie and Ricky.

I just think by your reasoning Billy Hinsche of Mike Kowalski should be part of this more than David Marks should, since they (possibly to some) played a bigger part for longer to the band.
2771  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sign the petition to include Blondie and Ricky in the 2012 Reunion! on: December 29, 2011, 11:40:09 PM
I totally see what you are saying PongHit, but it just seems like your rules are kinda arbitrary.

They're not my rules, and they're not arbitrary.

It totally makes sense that the "50th Celebration" BBoys are: Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, & Bruce. 

If, during a live concert, or TV special, or whatever, any of the many other major players can be added, that would be a nice bonus.  But the notion of Blondie/Ricky 'rejoining the band' is silly, and it ain't gonna happen. 

It's that simple.

I know it's probably not gonna happen, but your grouping Blondie and Ricky together which "other major players" is bullsh*t to me. I don't know how many times it has to be said, they weren't just major players, they were Beach Boys, unlike Ed Carter, Billy Hinsche, or a number of other fine gentleman who worked for The Beach Boys, and it is an insult to them as people and musicians that many here can not accept that they were full fledged Beach Boys.

How does Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, and Bruce make more sense than Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, Bruce, Blondie, and Ricky though? The Beach Boys lineup never had Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, and Bruce in it at the same time, so it's not like it's really true to the "group who recorded 'Surfin' years ago"  band, nor is it equivalent to the Pet Sounds/Smile band. It's just guys that happened to be in the band who are all still living. And even though one guy was onlly in the band from like '62 to '64, he is ESSENTIAL, but the guys who helped keep the band alive from '72 to '73 and '74, and one whose lead vocals who are on a classic hit record aren't included. I would not have this argument if the "reunion" lineup was just Brian, Al, and Mike, but with Bruce and David being there, it just makes the no Blondie and Ricky argument trickier, because people can rationalize it however they want, but those guys were in the band, whether they accept it or not. And some have admittedly had trouble accepting it, which is odd to be honest.
2772  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sign the petition to include Blondie and Ricky in the 2012 Reunion! on: December 29, 2011, 07:25:44 PM
I totally see what you are saying PongHit, but it just seems like your rules are kinda arbitrary.

What you are saying, however, is probably what Brian, Mike and Al might be thinking. It's very possible.

But I'm not looking at it from that perspective. I'm looking at it from the perspective that both of these guys were fully in the band and made some great music with the band, and therefore should be part of the group.


But I will also say that beyond all else it is up to Brian, Mike, Al, and Carl's estate. Whoever they want in the group is fine with me. However, my only thing is I'm sure if somebody asked Brian Wilson or Alan Jardine if they thought it'd be cool if Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar rejoined the group, they'd be cool with it.

I honestly think it is an oversight, and that Blondie and Ricky just don't get thought of. It's obvious that they were totally cool with David joining, and I don't think they originally excluded him out of any malicious intent. I think they are just used to the basic Beach Boys being Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, with Carl and Dennis being deceased members. I don't think they had a meeting and somebody said "Should Blondie and Ricky be part of the reunion?" and they had a yea or nay vote. I just don't think Brian Wilson really ever concerns himself with who was in the band. Which is why I think it is good that it is being brought to light.
2773  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sign the petition to include Blondie and Ricky in the 2012 Reunion! on: December 29, 2011, 05:56:44 PM
I'm not debating whether Brian or Al shouldn't be part, I'm debating the fact of whether they have or haven't been "Beach Boys" for the past 15 years, because your reasoning is that Blondie and Ricky haven't been Beach Boys for almost 40 years so they shouldn't be involved. I don't think it matters WHEN they were Beach Boys. They were Beach Boys on recorded albums, and live. I don't understand the argument against them that has David Marks in, but them out. Just seems odd.
2774  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sign the petition to include Blondie and Ricky in the 2012 Reunion! on: December 29, 2011, 02:28:25 PM
Well....David Marks ceased being a "Beach Boy" in like 1999 or whatever. And as far as being a real band that puts out new albums, he was last a Beach Boy in like 1963 (?) so if he wasn't included would you say the same?

And Brian and Alan haven't being in the touring band since 1996 or 1997 (?) respectively so does that not make Brian a Beach Boy for the last 15 years? Or does his being partner in BRI invalidate that? I'm serious with these questions too.
2775  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What is their strongest post-Pet Sounds album? (1967-1977) on: December 28, 2011, 09:16:53 PM
Brian's never made any such claim

I would surmise that he was referring to how a certain self proclaimed "Doctor" Love always seems to mention how he wrote the lyrics to "Good Vibrations" or what have you.
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