Firstly, the cast-iron certainties:

Good Vibrations
I Get Around
Help Me Rhonda
Kokomo
California Girls
God Only Knows
Wouldn't It Be Nice
Sloop John B
Surfin' USA
Surfer Girl
Little Deuce Coupe
Catch A Wave
Heroes And Villains
Fun, Fun, Fun
Barbara-f*cking-Ann
Rock And Roll Music
Do It Again
In My Room
Surfer Girl
Don't Worry, Baby
Darlin'
409
Surfin' Safari
track from the new album - "Radio", probably

Highly likely...
When I Grow Up...
Shut Down
Be True...
Good Timin'
Wild Honey
Sail On, Sailor
I Can Hear Music
Getcha Back
The Little Girl I Once Knew
Let Him Run Wild
Break Away
California Dreamin'

The 'signature' songs:
Disney Girls
Then I Kissed Her
Caroline, No
Why Do Fools Fall In Love
(one for David)

That's 41 without any deep cuts - add two 'tribute' songs and you're up to 43. "Their Hearts..." will be 44. "TWOTS" makes 45.

Any more suggestions ?

Gimme most of that list, and then make sure to include "Please Let Me Wonder", "This Whole World", and maybe something like "Cool, Cool Water" would be a cool surprise. And maybe to open this second set after an intermission with something like "I Went to Sleep" would be cool to start things slowly before going into a rockin' song.

Every time you spell Smile as SMiLE, an angel's wings are forcibly torn off its body.

Ha. I know it bugs you runners, but even on the boxset it is spelled that way. And it just seems right that way. But I can definitely see why its annoying.

[BWPS]

Brian's version is worth it, because it facilitated the release of the Beach Boys' recordings. But I have no need of ever listening to it again.

Agreed. If it took BWPS's release to get TSS, then it's worth it to me. But honestly, the only times I usually put on BWPS is to check out a difference between the original sessions and the '04 version. I just don't really have any interest in hearing the "new" versions.

[BWPS]

I loved BWPS when it first came out. And for a while it was "definitive" to me. And I basically thought it was Brian's best work. But then after a while, I realized I much prefer Pet Sounds and things like "Please Let Me Wonder" and also Brian's Sunflower work. So honestly, I kinda fell out of love with SMiLE and accepted The Beach Boys version as an unfinished thing, while being appreciative that we got official, completed Beach Boys versions of "Surf's Up", "Cabinessence", and "Heroes And Villains."

However, the release of The SMiLE Sessions got me really excited and gave me a re-appreciation of things like "Do You Like Worms" and "Child Is Father Of The Man." And after having lived with The SMiLE Sessions for a while now, I gotta say that I prefer The SMiLE Sessions versions of things like "Worms" and "Child", even if the BWPS versions have verse vocals and such. The versions from the '60s just have that certain factor that make them so much more enjoyable, even if they don't have those same parts. However, there are a few circumstances where I prefer neither TSS or the BWPS versions. And those would be "Surf's Up" from the 1971 album of the same name, and "Cabinessence" from 20/20. I think those versions of those songs are much better, and especially I think Carl's vocal on the first part of "Surf's Up" works much better than fitting Brian's part into it. Plus it makes Brian's part on the second movement sound even more touching when it comes in. But that's just me.

[BWPS]

I hear very faint background vocals on BWPS, but not quite the same. Just my take though.

[BWPS]

I just listened to some of "Roll Plymouth Rock" on BWPS, I definitely don't hear the "bomp, doo-da, bomp dada" in either of the verses. Maybe I'm missing something...

[The SMiLE Sessions]

Ok so this makes me look like a total idiot, but could somebody explain to me why on The SMiLE Sessions and the Good Vibrations box set, "Do You Like Worms" has that weird chant during the second verse, whereas on BWPS, "Roll Plymouth Rock" has the "once upon the Sandwich Isles..." lyrics. Obviously, The Beach Boys releases didn't have any verse lyrics recorded, but they still could have sequenced the track (at least on The SMiLE Sessions), like they did on BWPS. Personally, I prefer The SMiLE Sessions version. It works the best, aesthetically, to my ears.

Anyways, which is more "historically" correct? Were both arrangements tried by Brian in 1966/1967?

I heard a later version of "California Feeling" once with a Brian vocal that I believe was from '78.  i don't think I had heard the one from '74...very cool!  The '78 one had a hysterical moment where he's singing "it was such a beautiful day" and he interjects quickly in spoken voice..."like most days!"  Clearly, not that interested in delivering a releasable vocal...

Brian singing "California Feelin'" in 1978....hmmm. Was that line as far as he got with it? Or did he sing the complete song? How did he sound? Assuming he was disinterested, he probably didn't sound too great.

[Friends]

could you give us some more details on "Where is She" or the 1974 "California Feelin'"? How "complete sounding" is "Where Is She"? Releasable? How does Brian sound on it? And with "California Feelin'", I know the vocal overall seemed weird to you, but overall was it a good performance? Would you consider this release worthy either?

I took some notes on my phone to help me remember things. All I wrote about "Where Is She?" is that it was 2 & a half minutes, and was marked as an 'edit.' I guess it didn't knock me out, I don't really remember much else about it.

The track of the 1974 "California Feelin'" sounded OK to me, but BW's vocal sounded…. 'jokey,' if you know what I mean, like he was just laying it down for the lyrics, not even trying to sing it normally, so I guess maybe I wouldn't consider it good for a proper release.

Hmm. About them both being marked "edit"....were they both basically "complete" songs? How about "Little Red Book"? Was that the same one that's been circulating? Apparently from the Friends era? And the Carl sung "California Feelin'", that was the same version from the L.A. (Light Album) sessions? Same speed as the one that's circulating? And what about "Old Movie"? I know that was supposedly a catch-all title for a few of Dennis' songs from the early '70s era. Is it a totally different song from "Cuddle Up"?

I feel so thankful that you are being so cool about sharing what you remember. It's really cool of you. And hopefully we get to hear some of this stuff soon.

[SMiLE]

I'll try to summarize my BB-related experiences from my trip to LA last week:

Mr. Boyd had messaged me about the Al Jardine record release show at The Roxy on Tuesday night, so I first met Alan there, and was immediately struck by what a sweet, modest, and down-to-earth guy he is. I was with a friend of Alan's who also introduced me to Adam Marsland, Nelson Bragg, Domenic Priore, Mark London, and others.

Alan arranged for us to visit his house on Thursday evening, around 7pm. On the way, we stopped for Indian takeout for dinner. Alan has a cool pad, a cool cat — and there's a gecko living in his house! (Its surface looks like it's encrusted in coarse salt with pepper added.) We chatted while we ate, talked about our mutual interests and mutual friends. I gave him a stack of CDs I had brought for him, and he returned the favor (commercial releases, not CD-Rs).

My memory for details is inconsistent, partly due to flu medications, jet-lag, and lack o' sleep for 2 weeks (not sure I was a great conversationalist), but here are some tidbits I remember:

• Regarding the recently-uncovered GV footage — Alan arranged for it to be acquired when it was discovered — there are 2 silent reels — includes Dennis singing lead.

• Despite the seemingly complete/exhaustive nature of TSS, Alan believes a lot of master tapes have disappeared from the vaults over the years.

• Good news — the band currently seems to be getting along well, especially and notably Brian & Mike.

• Alan's impersonations are indeed hilarious, and eerily accurate! Not just the voices, but mannerisms too; the man is multi-talented.

Then he said had prepared an iTunes playlist for me, consisting of 86 tracks. After the paramedics arrived to resuscitate my ticker, I geeked-out with his headphones and iPad for... a couple hours, I guess. Here are some specifics from my memories:

I believe the dates ranged from circa 1963, the 'Audree tapes,' to 1996, the S&S sessions. Many tracks were familiar titles — things like "Little Bird" with BGV & track (no lead), vocal-only of "Time To Get Alone," and "We're Together Again" with strings — but also many completely unreleased titles. I think all eras were represented, including solo Mike.

"Live Again" is as great as rumored, but not a departure from Dennis's style of the period. "Cuddle Up"/"Old Movie" (2 different tracks/takes) is possibly even moodier and more dramatic/emotional than "Live Again." "Little Red Book" is very cool. "My Solution" is a funny oddity, experimental and interesting — but rough, and ultimately not a terribly important part of the canon; understandably unreleased. Dennis's "Ecology," however, while also experimental and rough, I thought it was of more consequence. Another very cool thing that I hadn't known about is Dennis & Carl's "Barnyard" (no connection to the SMILE tune?). I thought Brian's lead on the 1974 "California Feeling" sounded so odd that I wasn't even sure it was him — Carl's later retake sounds 'right' to my ears. There was an aborted "2,000 Years" string intro/overture for Dennis's "Friday Nights" that contained dated, sitar-sounding elements. Dennis's piano demo of "Be With Me" is a great fly-on-the wall moment. "All Day, All Night" was a highly-repetitive mediation that became "Whistle In." Alternate version of "Add Some Music" is very good, different lyrics. "Walkin'" and "Where Is She?" are SUNFLOWER outtakes. The "Caroline, No" BGV from S&S sessions were shockingly gorgeous, and have a "My Prayer" vibe. And I remember a few live tracks: "Please Let Me Wonder" (1965?), "All I Want To Do," and "Wild Honey" (1972-'73?).

Overall impression: this batch of material demonstrates, once again, the dynamic and diverse body of work our favorite band created. But it requires the painstaking efforts of people like Alan and Mark Linett to mine the archives for nuggets of gold — and I'm convinced they have the BB's integrity in mind; that's their motivation. (The ENDLESS HARMONY film and HAWTHORNE comp. being just 2 examples.)

More specifically, based on this collection, I'm guessing most of the best of the unreleased early/'golden era' material has already been tapped — of course, I'd love to be wrong about this presumption. Aficionados of the later periods (post-SMILE), however, have a lot to look forward to if/when these things see the light of day.

Apparently the music I heard is being potentially considered for a proposed archive compilation, because he asked me which of the tracks stand-out as things that should definitely be released. And Alan is aware of this forum, of course, and reads it occasionally, so our input might have an influence, to an extent.

By this point, Alan's friend was exhausted, and so was I, it was a long night, so we split at about 1am. Alan walked with us out to the car — invited me back next time I'm in LA — and, while in the street, 'performed' a snippet of Jan interviewing Brian; a sidesplitting and perfect ending to an unforgettable night.

Wow, thanks for all that info Ponghit. And if you don't mind, could you give us some more details on "Where is She" or the 1974 "California Feelin'"? How "complete sounding" is "Where Is She"? Releasable? How does Brian sound on it? And with "California Feelin'", I know the vocal overall seemed weird to you, but overall was it a good performance? Would you consider this release worthy either? How about "All Day, All Night"? Is it SMiLE era or Smiley Smile era? Any other late '70s or early '80s Brian songs?


And most importantly, did Alan seem to be hopeful about these archive releases? Or at least hopeful that we'd get a nice chunk of unreleased material on the box set? Once again thank you so much for all the info!

[The SMiLE Sessions]

It is now obvious that neither the reunion album or the 50-song hits collection(that Mr.Doe spoke of) will be ready for release to coincide with the start of the tour. A reunion album may (possibly) be released this summer, but what is the fate of the "commemorative" releases?

My guess, is that in the absence of any new product to sell(in conjunction with the tour) that Capitol will press more copies of "Sounds of Summer", "Endless Summer" or "Good Vibrations:30 Years of The Beach Boys" and re-promote those products, but for the avid fans looking for new Beach Boys CD product to buy, they are(indefinitely) out of luck. But, to be realistic, the re-promoting of those existing products will be quite satisfactory to the general public, and make plenty of money for Capitol.

And, I should note, that without the feud between Myself & Mr.Doe to keep this thread alive(or at least my presence, to enable people to use me as a scapegoat), this thread quietly came to a halt more than a month ago. I was correct in saying, that with Capitol continuing to stonewall it with the wall of secrecy, that, with respect to archival CD product, there is really nothing more to discuss.

This is kind of sad and disappointing.

Phil, well, first of all, you sent me an email telling me you were leaving Smiley Smile....apparently not my friend! But anyways, first off, The Beach Boys just released The SMiLE Sessions in November and they are also releasing a brand new album in June. So that would basically make it 2 new albums in around 7-8 months. Sounds pretty good to me, regardless of the band. Then, the band also says that within the year we will also receive a new best-of and a career-spanning boxset.

First off, I don't understand the obsession with the new best-of. Who cares? Why do you care if their 38th best-of comes out? Do you need to hear "Little Deuce Coupe" in another collection that badly?

Then, the boxset. It's coming. They said it is. It would probably make sense not to release it the same day as their new album. I'm assuming we'll probably see it near the end of the year. And that's fine. We'll probably get more details after the new album is out. Is that so bad? It's not like there is millions of people hanging on worrying about the new Beach Boys archival material. When it comes out, we'll listen if there is enough interesting stuff included. They will release what they want, when the want to. These are ultimately the works of The Beach Boys, and whatever material they want to come out will come out whenever they want it to come out.

[L.A. (Light Album)]

So, I know this has been talked about on here before, but do we have much of a clue what Dennis recorded post L.A. (Light Album)?

For sure there is "Labor Day," but it doesn't seem that anybody knows how far along it was. I hope there is a reasonable vocal on it, and that we hear it one day. And there's "Stevie", which he produced with Brian singing lead, and then the "cocaine" sessions.

And I know it was said that he actually did more than we had previously assumed from 1980 to 1983, and that he had random work at a few different studios. Any word on that? And what do we know? Have any of the tapes been rounded up? Is there anything even remotely releasable or complete?

Labor Day.

Yes please. I would love to hear this "last" Dennis song.

But anyways, besides that:
"Where Is She"
"(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again"
"Burlesque"
"Funky Fever"
"Rooftop Harry"
"Gimme Some Lovin'" (1972)
"California Feelin'" (1974)
"You're Riding High on the Music"
"Boys & Girls"
"Sweetie"
"Wouldn't that be Cool"

[SMiLE]

I know this doesn't really advance the conversation (which I find extremely enlightening), but I was wondering if anybody has made a mix of "Heroes And Villains" which includes both "I'm In Great Shape" and "Barnyard", especially you Holy Bee, since you were discussing it.

I tried to make one myself, with the first verse from the "Early Version Outtake Sections" track up to the fluttertone thing, followed by "I'm In Great Shape", then what is known on the SMiLE box-set as "Intro (Early Version) circa 12/66", which is called out as "part 3" on that track leading me to believe, it was indeed, part 3. And then lastly, "Barnyard". But my editing skills are not great, and I couldn't get anything reasonable out of it.

Hope to hear from one of ya!

I think Mike's last unreleased album did have a few really nice tunes, but if I'm given the choice of either having a Mike Love composition or an unheard Brian Wilson composition, I'm gonna go with Brian's. Even though some of the songs from Mike's latest work were pretty good, I think the only that is truly Beach Boys worthy is "Cool Head". The others are good within a Mike Love solo project, but I think the standard for material should be a bit higher than that for this Beach Boys album. Maybe it'll come to be known that Mike's stuff was better than the stuff that they came up with for the new album, but I doubt it.

"Where Is She"
"Burlesque"
"You're Riding High on the Music"
"Gimme Some Lovin'" 1972
"Flowers Come in the Spring" mid '70s Dennis solo remake

Those would be a good start 

What year was "Cool Head, Warm Heart" originally written/recorded?

Well, I assume it was probably recorded around 2003 or so, because I'm pretty sure Mike's "album" leaked around 2004 or 2005.

[Imagination]

I think the '80s comment may stem from another thing. When listening to the vocals, he probably heard that "Kokomo"/"Still Cruisin'"/"Cool Head Warm Heart" kind of vocal from Mike, which accompanied by a slick sounding track blasting out of studio speakers, would probably sound '80s.

I think one thing a lot of people are forgetting is that Mike can't really sing like he used to. His voice is probably the weakest of the main surviving Beach Boys. Brian's voice might be a bit different than it used to be, but he still can turn out a strong vocal, whereas from listening to the albums worth of songs that Mike made in the early 2000's it sounds like the only voice he can do comfortably is that whispery "Kokomo" type delivery. And when he tries to sound like the guy who sang "I Get Around" or "California Girls" he ends up having to get super nasal, like "Getcha Back" or things of that nature.

I pretty much agree with whoever sound the sound will probably amount to Imagination meets That Lucky Old Sun. Which is fine with me. Because honestly, I love Imagination. It's my second favorite BW solo, behind his 1988 debut album. There are a few garbage songs on it, but his vocals were so great on it. My only thing is whether the material will be that great. I'm probably not in the majority, but I didn't think the songwriting on TLOS was that great. I never really go back to it. I know everybody loves "Midnight's Another Day" and others, but it really doesn't move me. "Good Kind of Love" is good though, very Brian. But I'm really hoping that being back with The Beach Boys really inspired him to pull out some classic material on this one.

But overall, and I have nothing to found this on but speculation, I think vocally this will be the best Beach Boys album since Sunflower. Say what you will about Imagination, but the vocals, in my opinion, sounded absolutely gorgeous from Brian. And now, coupled with the fact that Brian is singing with a subtlety and emotion that we hadn't heard in years, I think there is gonna be some special moments if Brian comes up with some worthy songs. I think Al and Bruce will sound great too, and combined with the more mellow Mike Love vocal delivery, I think the album will be, as Brian has said, mellow with great vocals.

*Sorry for going all vintagemusic on you guys. I just kept writing and writing, ha.

[Summer In Paradise]

I am really kinda intrigued what this album is gonna be like. I think it's gonna be a lot different than anything we are expecting. I think Brian is gonna sound really nice on it. I just have a feeling these are gonna be some of his best vocals performances in a really long time. And I think that he has at least a few classic Beach Boys tunes left in him.

As far as Bruce, if he indeed get a spot for one of his songs, I am really interested to see what direction the song takes. We really haven't heard a *new* Bruce Johnston song since....what? "Slow Summer Dancing"? I'm afraid he might try to write some lame kinda faux '50s ballad, or an overly lame sappy electric piano led thing, or at the worst, something that resembles modern country music since apparently that's what he's really into now. But I'm excited to hear a new Bruce song. I think "Deirdre" and  "The Nearest Faraway Place" are really beautiful, and maybe he will tap into that one more time.

I am nervous about the '80s thing though. I really hope Mike doesn't try to do anything like "Still Cruisin'" or lyrics like those from Summer In Paradise. I think Brian is gonna come up with the goods musically, and I just hope Mike doesn't embarrass himself. I have a feeling it's not gonna sound '80s, but I do think its definitely gonna be the 2011/2012 Beach Boys, and I think that is interesting. Because we already have the 1965 Beach Boys and whatnot. So for better or worse, I'm excited for whatever it is. Because you've got Brian seriously involved in a new album. So at the least, I think it will be very interesting.

Be My Baby anyone??

[Songs from Here & Back]

As far as old or "unreleased" material on the album, I think there is one that I'd almost guarantee on there: "Cool Head Warm Heart" by Mike. It's probably the best solo song he has, and even though it was on Songs from Here & Back, not many people have heard it, and besides, this will be a new Beach Boys recording. Myself, I don't really care for having material written by anybody but Brian on the album, but if Mike has to get a "solo" spot, have it be this.

With Brian, there is a whole backlog of material he could use. But I'm not sure what he could use. For the most part he used his best '80s material on his self titled debut. And I gotta say, and this a probably an unpopular opinion, but I wasn't really impressed with hardly any of the material from the Paley sessions. "Soul Searchin'" was great, but unfortunately Brian already used it without the other Boys vocals. The track for "Dancing the Night Away" sounds beautiful and I hope that build upon Carl's part with an awesome vocal performance, because I think that could be a great song. "You're Still a Mystery" is good, and with a better Brian vocal, I think it could be a standout. So I don't know, maybe they could use some '70s scraps that we've never heard, and likely a bit of material we've never heard. So I'm interested to see what we get.

As far as Al, it seems likely we will get "Waves of Love" which we have never heard, and I wouldn't doubt that if he gets a second songwriting credit, it might be one of those titles you see on Andrew's page. But probably nothing we have actually heard before.

Ask for more details about "Surf's Up 1967". Why was "I'm In Great Shape" moved to track 5? Descriptions of some of his favorite vault tracks ("California Feelin'" 1974, "Where Is She", "Live Again"). Maybe ask why they didn't build a version of "Heroes And Villains" that included "I'm In Great Shape" and "Barnyard", as one could say there IS historical reasoning for doing so. And most of all, thank him for his hard work.

I'm usually not one of those Blueboarder types who acts like Brian is at the top of his game and is totally happy.....

but I gotta say he looks so happy and 'at home' in that picture. He looks happier than I've seen in years, and I think it has a lot to do with being a Beach Boy again. And for that reason, I think the group should continue for the foreseeable future, although I know 2012 is probably it as far the real Beach Boys being reunited.



*Actually, a few weeks ago, when I showed my buddy the new "Do It Again" video, he said "they should stay like this". He's a knowledgeable fan, and really digs the band. And I think instead of Brian doing solo tours (which I'd think probably wear on him) and Mike and Bruce diluting the name, they should just get together every so often and do a few dates. It would take The Beach Boys out of that bracket where other groups (with like zero original members) like "The Four Tops" and "The Coasters" who quote unquote "still tour" and at least make them more respectable, like other acts at their level of importance, like The Who and others. But I'm sure that won't happen, and the Mike and Bruce show will continue back upon the "sock-hop",-county fair rcuit and sing "Duke of Earl" even though their music is leagues beyond that type of thing.

[The BIG thing though to me is the end of Brian and Dennis as clear singers.]

I would say after Murry died Brian was never close to being the same. Neither were Carl or Dennis to a lesser degree. It seems to me that after "Holland" you get Brian really going into permanent decline. Ricky and Blondie were gone and they had added something cool to the group.  Dennis began drinking more (after a period of sobriety in early '75) etc The BIG thing though to me is the end of Brian and Dennis as clear singers. Not complete loss mind you (and Dennis handled the change a lot more professionally than Brian) but you never had the same textures again. Endless Summer did lead them in the wrong direction but I would say that at least to the end of the Beacago tour they had a great and varied show that was played well. After the summer of 75 though its all down hill.

I gotta say that losing the "classic Brian vocal" factor definitely hurt the band. And Mike Love himself has said it a few times. It is no coincidence that two of their biggest post 1975 hits (besides "Kokomo") are "Good Timin'" and "Getcha Back". Both songs have that classic (and classy) "Brian Wilson" sound (even though Brian didn't sing on "Good Timin'" and he didn't write "Getcha Back"). And I'm not gonna lie, as good as some of the post Holland stuff is, the lack of Brian singing at his 100 percent best definitely hurts the way I look at the material, regardless of how good it is, especially Love You and Brian Wilson.

[BWRG]

I'm actually not trying to start a big debate about anything. (Although I do think it's peculiar that Andrew -- who was one of the biggest BWRG cheerleaders around -- would now so summarily dismiss its vocals.)

My point is simply that studio trickery connected to vocals goes back a long ways. People have been editing multiple vocal takes together for a long time, and pitch-shifting them too. Yes, Pro Tools makes such things simpler. But the mere fact that they're done doesn't invalidate an entire album's worth of vocal performances.

Brian just sounds stiff on BW88. Stiff and shouty. Pretty much the only way to rectify that would have been to use demo vocal takes, which the BW88 deluxe edition shows us were somewhat calmer sounding. On his last three or four albums, Brian has developed a more natural vocal approach. Yes, it's definitely helped by technology. But it still sounds better (at least to me!) than it used to. And he sounds pretty much the same in the live shows (if generally shakier pitch-wise).

Yeah, Andrew's post somewhat confounds me, as I do remember him being a major supporter of BWRG.

But anyways, I gotta say that I think Brian really sounds better on the "rockers" or more uptempo material on Brian Wilson. But for example, on the demo of "Melt Away" I think he sounds way too tentative and shouty. I think that he sounds really nice on stuff like "Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight" and "Let it Shine" and was much more vocally dexterous than he is now.

However, I think he has done some gorgeous vocals recently like on the new "Do It Again." And I think he really sounds wonderful on the live version of "Please Let Me Wonder" on Live at the Roxy.

I think the main thing he is really great at now is doing a sensitive ballad-type vocal, and I hope that is the role he is most used in on the new album. And I think they should leave the rockers, for the most part to Al, and occasionally Mike.