Wait. What? Why? They JUST did Do It Again when the BBs reunited. Does Mike have an original idea in his head, ever? Every time Mike re-emerges into the market, it's Do It Again, because he's doing it again. Clever.

This is the guy who has spent years convinced that if he and Brian just got into a room, they'd make a great hit. And yet, he keeps proving that he's out of ideas. He couldn't have tried to come up with something new?

Also, Mark McGrath hasn't had a hit in 20 years. I don't measure the quality of someone's output based on hits, but McGrath isn't exactly some wonderful underground musician either.

Happy birthday Brian! I hope you get to do whatever you want today.

I disagree very much that Dennis had looks & charisma. 100% disagree. But that's beside the point. My issue is with people caring about charisma than the actual playing which shouldn't be. It weirds me out. I definitely don't see films for charisma. That & acting talent = 2 different things. That people even discuss who's got charisma is really bizarre, to begin with.
Regarding Beatles - disagree as well. BBs had sense of humor alright, it's just different than so-called British humor. Plus, again, it's got nothing to do with being bad actor.

What I meant when I said they lacked charisma is that they were very wooden and delivered their lines in a stilted way. Who wants to see that? Yes, acting is more than charisma. (In fact, the Beatles in Hard Day's Night and Help are examples of actors with charisma who aren't great actors.) But based on their performances in the Jack Benny skit and Brian's performance in The New Leave it to Beaver, in which he delivers his lines pretty much exactly as he delivered them in 1965 on Jack Benny, I don't think any of them was going to win an Oscar.

Oh, they'd be terrible. Even when they were interviewed by Dick Clark in 1964, they lacked charisma. And remember the little skit they did with Bob Hope and Jack Benny? They were right to stick with music.

I came across this New York Times article from 1988 by Timothy White. Pretty interesting view from right in the middle of the Landy hell.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/26/magazine/back-from-the-bottom.html?pagewanted=all

As you say, young pop stars may be trained on how to interact with fans, what to say in interviews, etc. Just because you have the goods to be a teen idol doesn't mean you have people skills. The same goes for athletes, of course. I know that figure skaters, who in the U.S. are expected to be as bland and devoid of personality as anything, attend "media training." They learn to give canned answers like, "I'm just going to try my best and not worry about the competition," and I'm sure they also learn how to interact with fans. And I also know that when they say something controversial, they're sent back to media training, almost as punishment. I bet some young pop stars have something similar, or at least they have a manager lecturing them on how to behave. This is because they're cash cows. Their labels and/or management can't afford to have them mess up. So of course they're not showing who they really are. I'm sure it gets trickier with social media.

But when it comes to older, established stars, I think the game changes. First off, these people have built lives. They have spouses, kids, and mortgages, etc. They don't always have time for fans, and they aren't always in the mood. And they probably care less than younger stars because they have other concerns, and they're established already. But even for older stars, it HAS to be incredibly hard to hear things like, "You saved me from suicide," or even, "I've been waiting to meet you for 20 years and this is the best day of my life." Who can deal with that kind of pressure? Some stars can turn on the charm. Others are naturally good with people. Tori Amos as an incredible reputation for spending a long time just listening to each fan's story, while nodding and making eye contact and hugging and being very genuine. But not everyone can handle that. It's a lot to take on.

You can't really gauge a person's true character based on fan interactions. It's more how that person behaved and treated others throughout their life.

I'm wondering if Brian's just bored with Pet Sounds?  Asking cause I just saw this video from the soundcheck from this very tour
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d-k31-sn-s
and go to about the 2:15 mark and let it play for a bit..

so the voice is still there, esp. when he's relaxed and he's still into it. Also, his keyboard is definitely audible.

Could be boredom. His voice sounded better in the first set, so maybe he's just putting a lot less effort into Pet Sounds. This soundcheck is great. "That voice is still in there!" Seems like Al is just a great person to have on tour-- a beta male that Brian can reminisce with and just generally be relaxed with. No, not disco, Brian.
Oh, the other thing I remember from last night: When Blondie was about to sing Sail On Sailor, he said he has never gotten tired of it and thanked Brian for writing it. Brian just said, "OK, Blondie." Brian doesn't really like SOS, does he?

Amy, Jeff used to do full band intros and did them very well!

I remembered him thanking/naming the band but not the crew. But it's been a while, so I might have forgotten that part.

Just back from the show at NJPAC in Newark, NJ. That venue is pretty big, but it was nearly sold out. We managed to get seats in the 3rd tier (out of 4) and as I have a fear of heights, I thought I might faint, we were so high up. But after the first couple of songs I was OK. I was pleased that Brian can sell that many tickets. This may be incoherent. I'm pretty tired.

Brian seemed to be in great spirits, and everyone was "great"-- the Great Al Jardine, the Great Blondie Chaplin, the Great Matt Jardine. I'm not sure I ever heard the band do Let Him Run Wild Before, so that was a treat. Matt got a lot of applause. Blondie kind of floated on and off the stage, seeming to show up whenever he felt like it! And then he took over toward the end of the first set, when he sang his leads. His guitar solos went on a little too long for my taste, but he is a welcome presence overall. During Wild Honey I kept wishing they'd put the spotlight on Probyn and the thermin. He finally got his due applause during intros.

Seemed like a lot of people around me were new fans, or very casual fans. After Add Some Music I heard someone remark, "Oh, I like that song," as if they'd never heard it.

As was mentioned in reviews of other shows, Brian's vocals were energetic in the first set but he struggled a bit during Pet Sounds. He does that sort of Frank Sinatra talk-sing ad-lib thing. Also ,when he strains he sometimes sounds like early 90s Brian, which is almost spooky.  I think this has to be it for him and these challenging songs live, after this tour. They're just too hard to sing. Luckily Matt handled the high notes. I always find it funny how Brian can still command a room. He got the now-traditional standing ovation after God Only Knows, but soon said bluntly, "Have a seat," and everyone immediately did. Brian may think he's there to please us, but everyone wants to please him.

And of course the encores were excellent, with everyone, especially Nelson (and apart from Brian), at peak energy, and some band members running around the stage. During L&M Brian sang about a lot of people getting shot. This got audible recognition from the audience-- appreciation that Brian acknowledged gun violence, I guess.

This might have been the first show I've been to without Jeff. I don't remember Jeff thanking and naming the crew the way Paul did. Maybe he did, but I don't recall that. Also, several of the band members hugged Paul after they were introduced. This band, plus or minus some members, has been together a long time. Darian was missed, but it was great to see Billy (of the original boyband, "except they could sing and play," as Paul said) and Gary.

I wondered how people would react to Brian's weak PS vocals, but as we were filing out, all I heard was "That was so good," and "Great show." I had been hesitant to go because I felt I'd seen him enough, and when he vocals were stronger, but I'm glad I went.

This wasn't bad, I thought. The interviewer seemed to know what she was talking about, and Brian seemed engaged and excited about the future.

http://observer.com/2017/04/brian-wilson-pet-sounds-tour-interview/

This is sort of a sidepoint and not directed towards anyone in this thread or on this board- but I wish that this event was viewed by the average person less as fitting within a narrative of someone who has mental problems having a mental episode, and more as a normal consequence of a young man being burdened with the equivalent of 3 or 4 jobs and eventually not being able to handle the situation they were in. 

Sometimes mental illness is a completely physiological thing.  But I find that often it is some combination of the hand you were dealt and the game in which you are forced to play it.  Not stressing the latter enough bums me out in this instance because I think Brian was actually really tough in this era but that isn't recognized as much outside of circles such as this one.  It is definitely a symptom of how things were in that era regarding mental illness, which makes this such a fascinating story.  But unfortunately it is also a symptom of our continued inability to completely get it right in present times. 

I'm not a mental health expert, but I agree with you that a panic attack is not in and of itself a symptom of mental illness. I myself had a series of panic attacks several years ago when I was working two jobs and under a lot of stress. They are more common than people think, so while the plane incident is discussed in almost romantic terms as some sort of turning point in Brian's mental health, I think it's quite likely that anyone in Brian's position in 1964 would have suffered for it, and a panic attack wouldn't mean that they were on the road to a lifetime of the sort of severe mental illness that Brian developed. That it happened in such a public way probably made it seem worse, but when you have a panic attack, there's no way to hide it.

Mike's OK, except when he talks.

I don't disagree with you except for the "Brian probably made up the 'nervous breakdown' thing..." I don't imagine 'panic attack' was within his lexicon. It was not a common term and at that time, 'nervous breakdown' was a broadly used term describing a variety of episode types that now have distinct names.

Agreed. I think he was just using the wrong term, or didn't know what term to use. I think  "nervous breakdown" is something where you lose the ambition or goals or whatever it is that you had prior. A panic attack, while terrifying, and while possibly part of a series of panic attacks, is more of an acute episode in reaction to stress or trauma, and it may be a sign or symptom of serious anxiety, but by itself it's probably not life-altering.

I brought this up before on one of the Dennis threads, but I wasn't aware until recently that Dennis had a series of panic attacks as a teenager and young man. Dennis having anxiety doesn't really fit in with his persona as the rebellious Beach Boy, but he, too, was deeply affected by having Murry for a father. I suppose Brian's famous panic attack is discussed more because it was the catalyst for his decision to stay home and therefore part of BBs lore.

I hesitate to start a new thread for this because Mike threads tend to be a mess. But in case anyone is interested:

https://www.mytimesplus.co.uk/events/an-evening-with-the-beach-boys-mike-love#.WOFUl_LIQlA.twitter

I would prefer that Mike not mention Brian's issues, past and current, when asked about their relationship, but there's probably more truth to what he says than most would care to admit.  I also cannot blame him if he's extremely irritated that he has to deal with someone who has no background in the music business, if he wants to work with or deal with Brian Wilson.     

Brian and Melinda have been married for more than 20 years, so I'd say Melinda has more than 20 years of experience in the music business at this point.

It might be tempting to try to help 1966 Brian in some way.
"If you ever meet a guy named Landy, run."

But then you'd change history, and possibly, music.

And let's suppose that Brian was giving it right back. Suppose that whenever Mike did an interview like this, Brian's publicist called up a publication and told them to print that Brian says Mike is a jerk, or Mike is difficult to work with, or Mike is obsessed with TM but hasn't learned from it? It would STILL be petty of Mike to do what he's doing. And it would be petty of Brian.

But as it is, Brian doesn't say anything, other than that he hasn't seen Mike in a while, or that he doesn't want to work with him. He leaves it at that. But Mike just keeps punching at him, even when he doesn't fight back. And that's REALLY petty. Especially at age 75. Let. It. Go. Find some peace in your life.

Remember he's a pretty old guy, easy to slip over what you say.

Hmm. OK, I will be the first to say that writers can skew quotes, causing celebrities to be mis-represented. And yes, old people can get confused (though Mike seems pretty hearty. He tours the world and does 2-hour concerts).  But this is a pattern with Mike that's been going on for years. It's not the first time he has implied that Brian's "situation" is to blame for their estrangement. So it's not a single quote that we're judging unfairly. It's the latest quote in the same fashion as previous ones.

It's irritating for a few reasons. One is that it's hurtful to Brian and to Melinda. Two is that it's actually hurtful to Mike's reputation. I mean, how many people actually believe him, when the proof is right there that Brian is doing pretty well? He's touring, he's recording. He's attending events. So the fact that Brian hasn't gone over to Mike's house to write a song, when he has socialized and worked with so many other people...you can't blame his "trajectory" for that. You can't blame his past drug abuse and mental illness.   It doesn't make sense. His life is full. The deciding factor appears to be Mike himself. Mike's attitude. And many people realize this, so when Mike blames the trajectory, it hurts his credibility and makes him look like a jerk.

The early stuff bugs people, but I get away with CATP and Holland, which people usually think is some modern indie band 

Yes, I was going to say this. Play those two albums, and it's fun when people ask what band is playing.

[Does Love still see Brian? “He has his own life and his issues,” he says carefully of his cousin, who has diagnosed mental health conditions, and is said to have suffered auditory hallucinations since 1965 due to drug use. “It’s unfortunate, but Brian is on his own trajectory.”]

Does Love still see Brian? “He has his own life and his issues,” he says carefully of his cousin, who has diagnosed mental health conditions, and is said to have suffered auditory hallucinations since 1965 due to drug use. “It’s unfortunate, but Brian is on his own trajectory.”

Fine for him to say that Brian's issues are unfortunate. But to suggest that's the reason why he and Brian don't see each other? And to suggest that his issues are still keeping him from doing what he wants (according to Mike--what-- seeing Mike?) , as if he's sitting at home staring at the wall and unable to function? That's not fair. He IS on his own trajectory, career-wise, of course.

Here's a more gracious answer: "No, I don't see my cousin. It's unfortunate, but we just haven't been able to work things out. I wish Brian well."

Completely off-topic, but I was interested in this quote from that Carl interview:
And yet, I don't mind if [Brian] doesn't make any more music. That's fine with me. I don't care if he makes hits or not. My interest in Brian is that I love him as a human being and as a brother, as I love all my family. I want him to have some joy and satisfaction in life, and he's not getting that. I'm not discouraging him by any means, but the main thing is that he have a nurturing, loving life. That's all that matters anyway.<<<

It pleased me to read that, that's all.

Were Dennis's panic attacks completely unknown to Beach Boys scholars until Scott wrote about them? I've never seen them discussed here before. If Dennis was "sent home," who filled in for him, the way someone had to fill in for Brian when he went home? Are there recorded Dennis absences from a show(s) in the 60s?

It's interesting that Brian is known as the brother with the anxiety issues, and that his airplane incident is considered a major event in his emotional life, but Dennis's issues weren't known or talked about. It also makes me wonder whether Brian and Dennis, who shared this disorder, ever talked about it...or, if they weren't comfortable talking about it, if it increased their mutual empathy. 

One thing mentioned that I only knew of from reading Scott Wilson's book, although I assume long time BB fans already knew this: Dennis had a panic attack/breakdown while on tour, was sent home and was hospitalized briefly. Does anyone know when this took place?

I hadn't heard about Dennis having a panic attack. Brian's similar attack is well known, of course, maybe because it fits better with his image as the fragile member of the group. I had always thought Dennis's issues with growing up with Murry manifested themselves differently.

Apologies...I just realized this is the same show discussed in the Manson documentary thread. I thought this was an episode of 20/20, rather than a documentary.