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680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 03:08:56 PM
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26  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: December 15, 1966- 50 years ago today Brian recorded the 'Surf's Up' demo on: December 15, 2016, 07:09:11 PM
Brian explained the lyrics in a very interpretative style on this occasion IIRC. Jules Siegel documented Brian's take.

Brian's explanation style hints that SMiLE was heavily influenced by Arthur Koestler's book the Act Of Creation.
27  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BEACH BOYS’ PARTY! Uncovered and Unplugged on: November 20, 2015, 04:45:18 PM
The late Bob Hanes absolutely loved the PARTY! album.
28  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Understanding Humor & Laughter During The SMiLE Era. on: March 21, 2015, 04:18:11 PM
"Boy, Hawthorne was something: it was very competitive in sports. The guys playing sports there were very rough about it. But that teaches you about having to get back on your feet again and keep playing!"
-Brian Wilson

Just posting this as an example of Hawthorne thinking.
29  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Understanding Humor & Laughter During The SMiLE Era. on: March 19, 2015, 01:08:02 PM
David Anderle quoted in CRAWDADDY!

Quote
Another thing: his (Brian's) humor is a particular kind of humor. Not being exposed, not being worldly, his humor is very Hawthorne, California. So Smiley Smile seems to a lot of us to be really corny, terribly corny, and very "in" on a Hawthorne level. The things I can't relate to on that album are things that I feel were like high school days to me, which to Brian are not necessarily high school days.
30  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Understanding Humor & Laughter During The SMiLE Era. on: March 19, 2015, 09:21:59 AM
Guitarfool2002 makes some interesting points regarding Hawthorne humor and I'd like to state my case.

When one thinks about Hawthorne, California one naturally thinks that this is where The Beach Boys came from. Out of this environment sprang songs that are an expression of competitive ego and one definitely gets the idea that they are connected with the culture & mentality of Hawthorne. You had "Surfers Rule," "Be True To Your School," "Don't Back Down," "Our Car Club," and "Shut Down" and I think '"Cassius" Love vs. "Sonny" Wilson' is an expression of this same competitive ego mentality on a smaller level.

So, in 2004, when Brian talked about noticing (via The Act Of Creation) the connection between ego and humor in other people (http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/music/pop/12377/) I, perhaps incorrectly, assumed Brian noticed this quality in folks from Hawthorne.

The main point of my original post was to explain that SMiLE era Brian's concepts of humor went far beyond the way we typically think about humor. Here's a link to the triptych from The Act Of Creation. The terms are arranged in 3 columns. On the left we have the humor terms, in the center we have the science/discovery versions of the humor terms, and on the right we have the art versions of the humor terms. This visual may help folks think of humor in a broader SMiLE era way. At the bottom left of the triptych you'll notice a "S.A." which stands for the "self-asserting" tendency and one can see that it's connected to the humor side of the triptych.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ztENLkkxnn4/VAcsRfFcUTI/AAAAAAAADwM/g3rWAafv27c/s1600/tumblr_lvg2z91EcP1qz6f4bo1_500.jpg
31  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Understanding Humor & Laughter During The SMiLE Era. on: March 18, 2015, 09:40:22 AM
To me, the humor aspect of the SMiLE era is misunderstood. The topic of SMiLE era humor is typically approached the same way one would approach Hawthorne humor from any point in Beach Boys history. Humor is understandably treated like, well, humor.

The following link is an example of this approach and ESQ subscribers may want to check out Andrew G. Doe's humor article in the Winter 2011 issue for another example of this tact.

http://333sound.com/2014/05/14/beach-boys-week-the-beach-boys-and-comedy/

While this approach seems entirely reasonable and does apply to some of the SMiLE era's projects, Brian Wilson's SMiLE era ideas about humor and laughter definitely go well beyond this limited scope.

For example, David Anderle stated that, "He (Brian) would see the solutions to all problems in terms of humor," and Michael Vosse stated that, "He (Brian) felt that the moment somebody laughed, that while they're laughing, that all control was gone. They cannot control themselves. And at that moment they can have a spiritual experience." So we have humor entering the realm of problem solving as well as promoting spiritual experience. It seems that there is much more to Brian's SMiLE era take on humor than meets the eye.

In 2004, at the time of BWPS, Brian made some comments regarding Arthur Koestler's 1964 book The Act Of Creation (http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/music/pop/12377/).

"It (The Act Of Creation) explains that people attach their egos to their sense of humor before anything else.....The book's about the logic of laughter....."

Let's look closer at this quote. The Beach Boys' Hawthorne humor is one of ego driven one-upmanship. A good example of this is the track "'Cassius' Love vs. 'Sonny'  Wilson" from the SHUT DOWN VOLUME 2 LP. The competitive Hawthorne comic style would therefore likely lead Brian Wilson to relate to The Act Of Creation's necessary ingredient for humor: the "self-asserting" tendency, and Arthur Koestler indicates that this "self-asserting" tendency is at its strongest level when associated with humor. From Brian's unique Hawthorne perspective Koestler was essentially explaining that, "people attach their egos to their sense of humor before anything else."

As one can see we're delving into the dynamics underlying humor and laughter and going forward these ideas might best be thought of as 'the logic of laughter' or 'the logic of humor' for, as The Act Of Creation maintains, this basic logic flows through, and can be detected in, all realms of creative activity. Most closely related to humor is the area of science and/or discovery.

Arthur Koestler maintains that the logic behind the greatest scientific discoveries in history is related to that of humor: that Archimedes' "Eureka!" cry at finding the solution to a problem is related to laughter as the result of getting a joke, that the riddle of science is related to the humor's riddle. With this in mind it is not too far-out of an idea that 'the logic of humor' might be the basic answer to any and all problems requiring creative solutions. With this in mind we can reread David Anderle's statement, "He (Brian) would see the solutions to all problems in terms of humor" in a different light as The Act Of Creation gives the idea credence.

The 'the logic of humor' is also related to the creative realm of art. Getting a joke is seeing the mind of the creator of the quip and similarly getting a piece of art is understanding the mind of the artist behind a work of art.

Michael Vosse stated that, "He (Brian) felt that the moment somebody laughed, that while they're laughing, that all control was gone. They cannot control themselves. And at that moment they can have a spiritual experience." The first part of this statement has to do with laughter resulting in a loss of control. This idea is summed up nicely in The Act Of Creation.

"Laughter, as the cliche has it, is 'liberating', i.e. tension-relieving....laughter prevents the satisfaction of biological drives, it makes man equally incapable of killing or copulating; it deflates anger, apprehension, and pride....the sole function of the luxury reflex seems to be the disposal of excitations which have become redundant..."*

The second part of Michael Vosse's statement has to do with spiritual experience. This is a touchy subject for many as it's not a common occurrence so I'd like to use a lengthy quote from the book Psychedelic Art to help address this matter:

'"On the deepest, integral level, the psychedelic experience is one of psychological integration, "illumination," and a sense of self-transformation. In our experimental work with psychedelics, only a small percentage of the subjects ever reached this deep level. How many artists have reached it, no one can say. Not in art or elsewhere do we find an entirely successful attempt to communicate experience that men of all times and places have tended to agree is essentially incommunicable.

The integral level seems always to be one of religious or mystical experience. Whether some other way of experiencing this level is possible, we do not know. Here the ideas, images, body sensations (if any), and emotions are fused in what is felt to be an absolutely purposive process culminating in a sense of self-understanding, self-transformation, religious enlightenment, and possibly mystical union. The person here experiences what he regards as a confrontation with the Ground of Being, God, Mysterium, Noumenon, Essence, or Fundamental Reality. The content of the experience is self-validating and known to be true. There is no question at all that these experiences are of profound depth levels of the self. In no apparent way do they differ from other religious and mystical experiences traditionally accepted as authentic.

After such an experience there is likely to be a powerful wish to communicate what has happened. Some of the psychedic art may be thus motivated. "'

I think the description of this level of psychedelic experience is likely similar to what happened to Brian Wilson prior to SMiLE. As is pointed out, this spiritual experience cannot be communicated by common means of communication, however, The Act Of Creation asserts it's possible for the consumer of a work of art to understand the mind of the work's creator (just as the person who gets a joke gathers a glimpse into the jester's mind). In this way Arthur Koestler's The Act Of Creation may have provided Brian Wilson with a potential means by which to communicate his spiritual experience.

Brian stated that "It (The Act Of Creation) explains that people attach their egos to their sense of humor before anything else..." and if we add to this Koestler's idea of laughter resulting in a loss of control one can gather that laughter could result in a temporary loss of ego which is often considered a necessary ingredient of a spiritual experience.

Viewing Brian Wilson's obsession with laughter through the lenses of Koestler's The Act Of Creation potentially gives us insight into the SMiLE era mind of Brian Wilson.


*Note the use of the word excitations.
32  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Who agrees that the Ramones picked up where the BBs left off? on: March 11, 2015, 04:36:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDm8aWzO3fU
33  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Who agrees that the Ramones picked up where the BBs left off? on: March 11, 2015, 03:54:39 PM
From my point of view The Ramones were my generation's Beatles.

They got lots of folks forming groups which is similar to what happened in the sixties when The Beatles arrived on the scene.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-beatles-top-spin-magazines-list-of-the-50-greatest-bands-of-all-time-75378722.html

But musically and lyrically The Ramones were much closer to The Beach Boys than The Beatles even though The Ramones took their name & fashion sense largely from the early Beatle's sensibilities.

The Ramones were three chord oriented but they weren't blues oriented. The Beatles were blues oriented. The Ramones were major key oriented. The Beach Boys were major key and three chord oriented too. The Ramones & The Beach Boys weren't as Blues as The Beatles. The Ramones & The Beach Boys were more POP. At least that's my uneducated musical guess.

This is it in a nutshell. After The Beach Boys' initial glory days musical nods back to those days were always tinged with a sense of nostalgia. It was different when The Ramones looked back & emulated The Beach Boys' style. It wasn't nostalgia. It was different! It was new! It was NOW! The Beach Boys' basic aesthetic became Punk Rock. How forever cool. Thanks Ramones.

So while groups like The Raspberries and The First Class were nostalgic in their honoring of The Beach Boys' style The Ramones took it somewhere else forever and I think that's basically the point that the author of this thread was trying to make.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8HxnhD4c6k



34  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Who agrees that the Ramones picked up where the BBs left off? on: March 10, 2015, 08:58:19 PM
Have to make a correction. Seymour Stein was not the manager of The Ramones, Danny Fields was. Stein was Sire Records. The record label guy made the Ramones/Beach Boys connection.
35  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Who agrees that the Ramones picked up where the BBs left off? on: March 10, 2015, 08:39:13 PM
The Ramones' finest moment may well be their "Sheena Is A Punk Rocker" single which reeks of the Beach Boys' style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huo_KNYUFZw
36  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Who agrees that the Ramones picked up where the BBs left off? on: March 10, 2015, 08:18:40 PM
Here's another.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjqZZmDSilI
37  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Who agrees that the Ramones picked up where the BBs left off? on: March 10, 2015, 08:17:53 PM
There are Ramones-like groups that play upon the Ramones/Beach Boys connection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2QAelJOwCA
38  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Who agrees that the Ramones picked up where the BBs left off? on: March 10, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
"Rockaway Beach" is a natural one to connect to the Beach Boys. The Ramones covered "California Sun" which is obviously a vocal surf number in the style of The Beach Boys.

Manager Seymour Stein saw and is on record as noting the musical connection between the two groups.

The Ramones recorded with Brian's hero Phil Spector and Joey Ramone had a Ronnie Spector-like vocal quality which the Beach Boys lacked.

Musically, Ramones songs like "Oh Oh I Love Her So" could easily be a Beach Boys song.

The Ramones' lyrics often could easily be Beach Boys lyrics as they often feature similar themes and sentiments.

Brian Wilson once remarked that he'd like to work with The Ramones.

Both groups have been referred to as "America's Band."

PUNK magazine's biggest selling issue was MUTANT MONSTER BEACH PARTY which features Joey w/surf board and was made in the style of Warren Publication's HORROR OF PARTY BEACH mag. This all can be traced back to the surf craze which The Beach Boys were obviously a big part of as far a spreading the word about the sport.

The Ramones did a better job of "Do You Wanna Dance" than The Beach Boys did IMHO.

The Ramones did the movie ROCK 'N' ROLL HIGH SCHOOL and the title song is basically in The Beach Boys style. The Beach Boys also did films that featured their songs.

My last point is that I can't pin any Beach Boys feeling on any other punk rock group. The Ramones were the only group that "got it" and could give listeners that Beach Boys type thing!!!!!!!!




39  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Intellectual Dishonesty Regarding SMiLE on: February 13, 2015, 09:40:56 PM
Out of all the Beach Boys stuff I've ever read & collected and seen online there isn't a single shred of credible coverage of SMILE as far as that project is concerned dealing with the insight and illumination & religious philosophy possible via LSD. I've never seen this stuff mentioned ever! Yet this is clearly the mind-set and goal of Brian Wilson during the SMiLE era (see Bri's quotes to Tom Nolan for proof).

Seems to me that it's high time for folks who write about SMiLE to get a clue and realize that Brian Wilson had it going on in a big way during that era. There needs to be a sensitivity to the religious acid experience applied to this art.

If you write about SMiLE and are clueless psychedelically (as I am) you need to state so (as I have) and you need to become acquainted in some way to speak on such topics (I read a lot of stuff). And in the future any point of view regarding SMiLE that is devoid of the influence & philosophy of the psychedelic experience should not be regarded as an informed view on the subject of SMiLE.









40  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: So I'm the first person in 50 years to figure out the true meaning behind SMiLE. on: January 09, 2015, 06:11:06 PM
The meaning behind SMiLE was presented by Brian Wilson way-back-when in 1966. That's when his next project (SMILE) was all about spiritual enlightenment and humor and God (though those separate terms most likely belong wrapped together in a love based reality bond beyond our normal realm of description).
41  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks? on: August 06, 2014, 07:03:50 PM
The whole idea behind the modular style of recording is not to create a large work of unconnected pieces.
42  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks? on: August 06, 2014, 06:11:28 PM
Albums used to typically be a few of an artist's singles with filler, such as cover versions of hit songs, added.

One thing that PET SOUNDS had over SUMMER DAYS (depending upon your opinion of such things) was that it seemed thematically connected musically & lyrically explaining the complexities of growing up. Drugs helped bring out this sensitivity in Brian. PET SOUNDS was almost a single theme expressed through a standard LP set-up of separate tracks. To many PET SOUNDS is considered one of the first concept albums due to these properties.

SMiLE was to be just as much an advance over PET SOUNDS as PET SOUNDS was over SUMMER DAYS.

How do you out-do a connected themed LP with separate tracks?

You connect them.
43  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks? on: August 04, 2014, 10:25:06 AM
The idea of individual tracks with two seconds of silence between them doesn't really fit well with the idea of SMiLE. Things need to flow together as in a dream.

How one divides a dream up into sections seems like a very subjective process. That's the main point to be made. Brian could divide it up any way he wanted: 12 tracks, 3 movements, 2 LP sides, whatever.

The tracks could also contain other sections if Brian wanted to do that. For instance, Boyce & Hart did that with the track "Life" on their LP TEST PATTERNS.

http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/boyce_and_hart/test_patterns/



44  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks? on: August 03, 2014, 02:02:51 PM
"Vega-Tables" was considered as a stand alone single & so it's separated from The Elements.
45  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks? on: August 03, 2014, 01:52:40 PM
My personal preference is to lead off side two of SMiLE with "Surf's Up."

"Wind Chimes" works it way in under the heading of "The Elements" as does "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" and "Love To Say DaDa." Those three are strung together.
46  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks? on: August 03, 2014, 01:21:17 PM
Given that many of the SMiLE sections come under the heading of either "Heroes & Villains" or "The Elements" I suggest that this is a suitable way the 3 movement SMiLE can become a 12 title LP made of only Brian & VDP songs (keep in mind that Carl's 12 track listing that was given to Capitol doesn't count).

The Prayer
Heroes And Villains (includes Gee, IIGS & Barnyard)
Do You Like Worms
Cabin Essence

Wonderful
Look
Child Is Father Of The Man
Surf's Up

Vega-Tables
Holidays
The Elements
Good Vibrations

There you are. The LP as described to Tracy Thomas as a 12 tracker also is a 3 movement piece. The songs could have been delineated along such lines.

The pieces written by outside composers don't count as Brian told Tracy Thomas that all the music was done by him & VDP.


47  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks? on: August 03, 2014, 12:43:41 PM
According to the late great Bob Hanes: when Brian saw the written 12 track list (in Carl's handwriting) for SMiLE that Capitol Records had on file Brian was like, "What the hell is this?"

Apparently that wasn't an accurate representation of SMiLE in Brian's opinion.

As far as Brian's claim to Tracy Thomas that he was working on a 12 track LP with Van Dyke goes......I think Brian was keeping SMiLE a secret in order to blow minds upon its release. When discussing the "Heroes & Villains" single later on Brian says he is thinking of a non-album b-side to keep the LP as much of a surprise as possible.

As far as the individual tracks thing goes....this doesn't seem to honestly fit with SMiLE. I realize that there's a strong attraction for this kind of standardized LP line-up for fans as it can be found found throughout the Beach Boys' catalog and it is traditionally how LPs are done.

But SMiLE broke all the rules. Songs were done in sections, the sections were being constantly shifted around, Brian was trying various sequences of the recorded sections, and so on. This modular style was far from the traditional style of recording and far from the PET SOUNDS style of recording (which yielded 12 tracks plus the "Sloop John B" single). The way in which the numerous SMiLE "sections" were recorded and pieced together in an ever changing fashion belies the standard LP 12-14 track set-up. And reports from David Leaf perhaps via Debbie Keil seem to indicate that SMiLE was to have a connected flow too it.

I think of it like a pizza. You can cut it into 12-14 pieces or 3 pieces. You can even cut it into 2 pieces to put it on two sides of a single record.



48  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks? on: June 21, 2014, 06:15:33 PM
Birth-death-and rebirth....That's 3 movements.
49  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Is SMiLE One Big Dream? on: April 29, 2014, 07:22:41 PM
I want to thank everyone for their thoughts on this thread so far.

Brian Wilson's favorite book around the time of SMiLE was Arthur Koestler's THE ACT OF CREATION which placed great importance upon dreaming because it was through this process (and it's combining of seemingly unrelated thoughts) that the greatest and most important discoveries & acts of intellectual evolution (science) happened.

I think Brian Wilson considered genuine spiritual experience on this kind of level.

All these things are related and interconnected. The dream, the discovery, and the spiritual experience. If anyone doubts such a connection I encourage them to read Koesler's accounts of Johannes Kepler's discoveries.

50  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Is SMiLE One Big Dream? on: April 25, 2014, 06:58:19 PM
In a dream you can have lots of seemingly unrelated subjects coming together & not making sense (they make sense in a dream). In a dream you can have two points of view (like Van Dyke's lyrics & Frank Holmes' drawings together in the SMiLE booklet).

If "Surf's Up" is a dream then Brian might play it with his eyes closed as if in a dream (as he actually did for the Inside Pop TV thing).

Van Dyke Parks ended his piece for the BWPS tour booklet with the phrase, "Don't Awaken Me." This appears to possibly be a reference to a dream.

Brian explained "Surf's Up" to Jules Siegel with a line, "He's off in his vision, on a dream."

Being that SMiLE was to be the real deal---to beat Sgt. Peppers in the race to "the MOMENT"---when the positive aspects, potentials, and possibilities of the psychedelic movement crystallized---it seems like this DREAM thing seems appropriate for its time.

My personal SMiLE sequence explains how all the "Heroes & Villains" stuff could promote the dream idea. http://www.goodhumorsmile.com/page23.htm












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