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680598 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 07:49:15 PM
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5601  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: December 21, 2013, 11:11:33 AM
"Had To Phone Ya" epitomizes, for me anyway, the reality or the "real state" of Brian Wilson in 1976. When you listen to the "Had To Phone Ya" track (and many more on 15 Big Ones), and the Love You album, on one hand you felt that Brian still had "it". But, on the other hand, mainly with the vocals that Brian allowed to be recorded/released, you felt that something was very seriously wrong. You went from feeling really good, almost wanting to go "Yes!", to, maybe 30 seconds later, scratching your head and thinking "WTF..." Huh

When hearing the backing track, I imagine that the other Boys would have been slightly floored, to say the least, that Brian pulled off such an amazing production at that point. Not that backing tracks of Brian's from just a few years prior weren't also amazing, like "Til I Die", "This Whole World", etc... but "Had To Phone Ya" just so specifically recalls his work at the Pet Sounds era (which I imagine even in 1976 was thought by the band to have unquestionably been their high water mark + artistic pinnacle), that I'd think they would've really thought that Brian still had his full powers up his sleeve to use when he wanted to.

It's just a bit odd to me that most fans/critics (and possibly the band themselves to some degree?) didn't seem to quite notice that at the time. Or maybe the band noticed, but Brian simply wasn't able to deliver in that way in a consistent manner. I guess some people noticed just how rad this track is, since someone must've made an extra effort to boot the backing track, as a poor quality backing track of this song was making the boot rounds for years.
5602  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why did post-Wrecking Crew era BB songs often use session musicians? on: December 21, 2013, 11:01:37 AM
Here's another theory that I just thought of. Imagine you've written a song and you have a pretty good idea how you want to arrange and record it. There are two options: you can have your fellow band members play on it, but they all have their own tastes and opinions, you can't really force them to do anything and they probably have something like a veto right. The other option is to record with hired hands who will just do whatever you want them to do because, well, you're the boss. The second option was probably often easier. And why would the other guys complain? They basically got time off when someone else was doing their jobs and since most BB albums didn't mention who played what, it's not like they were missing out on any credits or something.

Shelter - that's a very good point. There's always the possibility that politics like that were involved, and it may have just made things easier in those instances (seemingly an umbrella reason for them doing it in general in the 70s and beyond).

I also wonder if it was possibly the producer's decision, for example Steve Levine producing "Maybe I Don't Know" may have suggested using a guitar player who was an expert with a then-modern, super 80s commercial guitar playing sound/tone?
5603  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Why did post-Wrecking Crew era BB songs often use session musicians? on: December 20, 2013, 11:46:36 PM
It's often confounded me why the band, long after the years of Brian producing their material, kept using session musicians on their recordings. Particularly in the late 70s and beyond.

When Brian began using session musicians in the 60s to augment the recordings, it seemed he was reaching for some very delicate, specific type of intricate sounds that would have been harder or impossible to achieve with the 60s lineup. But in later years, it seems they could've gone back to doing things themselves again (more than they actually did).

Obviously, things like Dennis being erratically involved in the band whatsoever around Keepin' The Summer Alive would make it more likely that other drummers would be used. But it seems odd how the band would use outside guitar players, for example, for guitar solos on BB85 songs, as well as guitar on Somewhere Near Japan, etc, when Carl was in the band and could've presumably just as easily laid down those tracks.

Some possible assumptions on my part:

-Did the band simply get comfortable (a nicer way of saying "lazy") and just preferred outside musicians doing the legwork and more of the "tough stuff" in the studio?
-Did they think other musicians could simply do things "better" than they could? (Perhaps Brian planted those seeds in their head years earlier)...
-Or maybe due to the BB spending such copious amounts of time on the road, they preferred to make more money staying on the road, instead of taking more time slaving over sounds in a studio?
5604  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / "Had to Phone Ya" on: December 20, 2013, 07:43:09 PM
How did Brian pull off a nearly Pet Sounds-level backing track in '76? It's just jaw dropping to listen to on the MIC box set.

I dig the vocals on the full 15 Big Ones version, but they are a bit rough at times, and not really up to the stellar beauty of the backing track. I imagine that fans listening to this track in '76 on the 15BO album would have probably thought the full version of "Had to Phone Ya" was good (or even great), but wouldn't really quite have known just how ace the backing track was without hearing it on its own.

If it had been an instrumental on the album, I'd imagine some people would have thought it possible that Brian was still maybe, just maybe capable of pulling off another Pet Sounds level album.

We know this song started out as "Trombone Dixie" during the Pet Sounds era, so it had older roots. Maybe Brian felt this was a "lost" track from that golden era, that nudged him to put that much more care into the recording? I can't think of another song after this one which Brian put quite as much care to produce a backing track close to Pet Sounds level (IMO, of course).
5605  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Did Brian bring his falsetto back in mid-70s? on: December 20, 2013, 12:37:42 PM
Brian also got his voice up very high (for substantial portions of the song) on "Heavenly Bodies". I love this track, even though the cheesy sax riff and the very last notes of the song sound just like the end of the Growing Pains theme song.

I'm thinking this is the last example of Brian attempting a falsetto for a substantial chunk of lyrics in a song. And I'm also guessing that since falsetto (to that degree) seems to be out of his range now, that is why this song hasn't been remade/reworked for GIOMH or for any subsequent release.
5606  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Did Brian bring his falsetto back in mid-70s? on: December 19, 2013, 06:49:01 PM
This subject has come up so often it's unbelievable.  The very first time I heard "Getcha Back" in '85, I knew it was Brian. There was no doubt in my mind that it was him then and now. The one that always gets me is not the Love You or Getcha Back Brian falsettos, but the one song; "Matchpoint Of Our Love" from '78. I've never read or heard how he sang so clear on that - it sounds like his late 60's/early 70's voice. From another era. I've read that his voice was processed, then I read that it wasn't. And no, Autotune wasn't around back then, but some recording 'gimmicks' were. Still a mystery with no definitive answer after all these years.

As absurd a thought as this is: there isn't any possible way that the "Matchpoint" vocal was actually recorded several years earlier, and then flown on top of a M.I.U.-era backing track, is there? Obviously the backing track is very late 70s sounding though. While I think this idea is highly unlikely, I too am trying to figure out how Brian's vocal chords hopped into a time machine in 1978.

Other than thinking this is due to his short-lived vocal "recovery", there seems to be no answer. The only possible thought that makes any sense to me is that his late 70s "gruff" voice of the era was, at times, a put-on, and something psychological that he was able to control sometimes.

Are there perhaps any late 70s live recordings of other songs that BW sang around this time, where his vocals even come within the ballpark of approximating the tone/delivery that he nailed on "Matchpoint"?

I have been mystified and obsessed with Brian's vocal on "Matchpoint" since the day I heard it - the day the album was released. You have to realize how a fan would be caught off guard - and elated - after coming off of 15 Big Ones and Love You. The bigger mystery is not how Brian pulled it off at M.I.U., but WHY DIDN'T HE CONTINUE IT?

I think Brian came close to the "Matchpoint" vocal on "Winter Symphony" and "Wontcha Come Out Tonight". Hell, I even love(d) the falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm". But, no, he rarely matched the clarity and relaxed vocal of "Matchpoint", though I do think his live vocals in 1980 and 1981 are of higher quality than some fans think.

I never considered the falsetto vocal on "Getcha Back" to be anybody but Brian until it was questioned on a thread on this board. Sometimes your ears are the best judges and it just feels like Brian.

I can't imagine how bizarre it must've been to have heard "Matchpoint" when it came out. Not quite sure what fans made of it at the time... did fans at the time know that "Good Time" was vintage? That must've been puzzling to hear on an album in '77.

I gotta say that I *love* "Matchpoint". It just has a really cool melody, and I can get over the lyrics, even if they are cheesy (this band has done way worse). It seems like the BBs were in a sports phase lyrically in the late 70s, with "Matchpoint", "I'm Trying to Say", and "Our Team". But I suppose we dodged a bullet - if they'd kept it up for a few more songs, maybe a late 70s sports concept album would've been their oddball sequel to the Little Deuce Couple car "concept" album.
5607  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Big Beat 1963 on: December 19, 2013, 02:44:39 PM
I still have yet to download this set (I tend to have a knee-jerk reaction against paying for mp3s/non-physical releases, but I will nevertheless buy this soon)... but from all this very interesting talk in this thread, one thing occurs to me.

This set of music seems to really be evidence of how Brian, even at a very early stage in his music career, was struggling to figure out whether a given song was "suitable" for the BBs. I see it almost as if the "inappropriate music" saying that he repeated over the years about how SMiLE was not the “right” music that the BBs should have been recording/releasing was in his head from a far earlier era, since his early songs that seemed to stray the most outside of the very early BB Surfin’ Safari/Surfin’ USA surf formula were the songs that he gave to/wrote for other artists. Granted, the BBs eventually became BW’s vehicle for almost all of his output.

Do we know if all the songs on this set were originally intended for other artists, or if perhaps any of them were initially conceived as BB songs, but then determined by BW to be more suited to be recorded for other artists? (Rabbit’s Foot, Surfer Moon, etc).

IMO, it’s fascinating to me that many of Brian’s better, or at least more interesting songs of the very early years (like Cindy, Oh Cindy, Lana, The Baker Man, or even Land Ahoy) went unreleased, while the main problem that the Surfin’ Safari album suffers from is that its songs sound too much alike, tempo and structure wise, at least to my ears (and it could’ve benefitted from some of these tracks in place of some of the tracks actually on the record).

I guess one could chalk this up to the “surf” noose that Brian probably felt around his neck more tightly at the very beginning, when the band was figuring out if it was gonna be just a novelty act, or a vehicle for Brian to be more ambitious with. Do we know why Ten Little Indians was chosen as the 2nd single off Surfin’ Safari? (I assume it was a conscious effort/statement for the BBs to not be solely a “surf” band).
5608  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Did Brian bring his falsetto back in mid-70s? on: December 19, 2013, 02:19:08 PM
This subject has come up so often it's unbelievable.  The very first time I heard "Getcha Back" in '85, I knew it was Brian. There was no doubt in my mind that it was him then and now. The one that always gets me is not the Love You or Getcha Back Brian falsettos, but the one song; "Matchpoint Of Our Love" from '78. I've never read or heard how he sang so clear on that - it sounds like his late 60's/early 70's voice. From another era. I've read that his voice was processed, then I read that it wasn't. And no, Autotune wasn't around back then, but some recording 'gimmicks' were. Still a mystery with no definitive answer after all these years.

As absurd a thought as this is: there isn't any possible way that the "Matchpoint" vocal was actually recorded several years earlier, and then flown on top of a M.I.U.-era backing track, is there? Obviously the backing track is very late 70s sounding though. While I think this idea is highly unlikely, I too am trying to figure out how Brian's vocal chords hopped into a time machine in 1978.

Other than thinking this is due to his short-lived vocal "recovery", there seems to be no answer. The only possible thought that makes any sense to me is that his late 70s "gruff" voice of the era was, at times, a put-on, and something psychological that he was able to control sometimes.

Are there perhaps any late 70s live recordings of other songs that BW sang around this time, where his vocals even come within the ballpark of approximating the tone/delivery that he nailed on "Matchpoint"?
5609  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Describe the differences between Phil Spector's production style and Brian's on: December 18, 2013, 11:27:16 AM
I implore anyone who's a fan of Pet Sounds (and on this board, I'd imagine that would be approximately 100% of y'alls) to give a listen to this (You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling - instrumental backing track):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wGW3PXD39k

This version is simply majestic + stunning... I discovered this recently and was totally blown away.

As enormous a fan as I am of BW, it would be difficult for a BW fan to listen to this and not be awestruck by how much Brian was very, very deeply influenced by Phil. Not a news flash of course, this is pretty much common knowledge - but the degree to which BW learned (and in some cases "lifted") production techniques from Phil is pretty massive (this track was recorded in '64). 

This backing track sounds near equal to me like a Pet Sounds backing track from the Pet Sounds box set. If you played someone not familiar with either artists' work, they'd probably think these were composed by the same artist (obviously, the Wrecking Crew musicians are similar, if not the same to the ones who played on Pet Sounds).

I think the real differences between Brian and Phil's styles are with their vocal arrangements. Brian's are simply untouchable.

But with some of Brian's/Phil's backing tracks stripped of vocals, there are some insanely striking similarities.  Certainly, Brian evolved to many other places as an artist (beyond this '64-'66 specific style/sound), and ultimately Brian's productions reached areas of emotionality that Phil never reached. But I also feel, IMO that in some ways, some of Phil's productions are untouchable in their greatness, even by BW. I think this backing track is on par with Pet Sounds backing tracks, no doubt to my ears. I hope that one day, a deep cuts Phil Spector box set is properly released (Pet Sounds Sessions style) with backing tracks like this. It would seem that Phil's wife could use the cash, so maybe it will happen.
5610  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys On Simpsons on: December 15, 2013, 07:56:31 PM
Just think - if only the original idea for "Summer of Love" had panned out, we'd have had the BBs doing a duet with Bart Simpson.

Even though many questionable BB movie/TV tie-ins were made in the 80s/90s, I still think this would have made for a iconic moment (even in a so-bad-it's-good way) for both the BBs and The Simpsons. Not saying it would've been good though.

Someone should ask Nancy Cartright (Bart Simpson's voice) sometime if the duet idea ever made it to the point of actually being floated by her. Ay carumba, man.
5611  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: December 14, 2013, 06:00:23 PM
 
Any other SS board members (besides myself) going?
5612  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson is insanely overrated on: December 13, 2013, 03:24:59 PM
Hey, my mom was there too! She claims to
have smoked cigs out back with The Stones Smiley

That's awesome Smiley And I second the request for you to get a DNA test Wink
Did your mom go to Santa Monica High School? My mom did, which is how she wound up attending The T.A.M.I. Show, since a concert promoter dropped by the campus, offering kids on campus free tickets to see live bands play a concert that same evening across the street, at the Santa Monica Civic Center (R.I.P.).

My mom actually hung out with another T.A.M.I. Show act, The Barbarians, and she has pics to prove it... but she doesn't recall if it was then when they were in town for The T.A.M.I. Show, or possibly at some other time around the similar time period. If only she'd been a BB fan...

Maybe another DNA test is justified

 Grin
5613  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson is insanely overrated on: December 13, 2013, 02:26:57 PM
Hey, my mom was there too! She claims to
have smoked cigs out back with The Stones Smiley

That's awesome Smiley And I second the request for you to get a DNA test Wink
Did your mom go to Santa Monica High School? My mom did, which is how she wound up attending The T.A.M.I. Show, since a concert promoter dropped by the campus, offering kids on campus free tickets to see live bands play a concert that same evening across the street, at the Santa Monica Civic Center (R.I.P.).

My mom actually hung out with another T.A.M.I. Show act, The Barbarians, and she has pics to prove it... but she doesn't recall if it was then when they were in town for The T.A.M.I. Show, or possibly at some other time around the similar time period. If only she'd been a BB fan...
5614  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson is insanely overrated on: December 12, 2013, 04:09:37 PM
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned how dated Dennis's music sounds. Dennis's songs were very derivative of contemporary 60s and 70s music and are much harder to appreciate imo than Brian's much more creative songwriting.  You may say that Brian could never make anything like POB, but that's because Brian's musical and lyrical ideas far surpassed contemporary cliches.

All of this obviously ventures into IMHO territory, but while there is a very distinctly "of its time" element to much of Denny's POB/Bambu music (synths, etc), it doesn't bug me in the slightest. It doesn't scream "whoa, look at this dated 70s gimmick" anymore than when I listen to Pink Floyd. It fits the music, and it was being progressive at the time.  To me, it still sounds amazing and powerful.

Now, compare to BB songs like "Bluebirds Over the Mountain" or "Student Demonstration Time", or Al's "rad" lyrics in "California Calling", all of which seem much more dated.

I agree with all this. I don't think that music needs to be progressive like Smile to be enjoyable. What I have been trying to say about Dennis for a long time on this board is that I just find his music "typical." His songs -- to paraquote his entire recorded output -- is something like: "I loooooove youuuu, yooour loooove is beaaaautifuuuul, maaaaaaaakin' looooove." Just very dated stuff that doesn't have much resonance. The cliches of the time.

Interestingly, I actually used to feel quite similar to you about his music. I liked it enough, but it overall still seemed kinda mushy and plodding at times. (Maybe the only Denny song that I still kinda sorta feel that way about is Make it Good, which I find overwrought). But it just grew on me more and more over time. It seems less "typical" to my ears, and more the work of someone who wasn't formally trained, wasn't adhering to convention, and was really singing from an emotional place in his heart.
5615  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson is insanely overrated on: December 12, 2013, 03:54:40 PM
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned how dated Dennis's music sounds. Dennis's songs were very derivative of contemporary 60s and 70s music and are much harder to appreciate imo than Brian's much more creative songwriting.  You may say that Brian could never make anything like POB, but that's because Brian's musical and lyrical ideas far surpassed contemporary cliches.

All of this obviously ventures into IMHO territory, but while there is a very distinctly "of its time" element to much of Denny's POB/Bambu music (synths, etc), it doesn't bug me in the slightest. It doesn't scream "whoa, look at this dated 70s gimmick" anymore than when I listen to Pink Floyd. It fits the music, and it was being progressive at the time.  To me, it still sounds amazing and powerful.

Now, compare to BB songs like "Bluebirds Over the Mountain" or "Student Demonstration Time", or Al's "rad" lyrics in "California Calling", all of which seem much more dated.
5616  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson is insanely overrated on: December 12, 2013, 12:33:00 PM
I'm not quite sure how to rate Carl as a songwriter. He didn't write much throughout his career and much of it was mediocre. But and it's a big but, he wrote my favourite BB song ever "The Trader", as well as "Feel Flows" which is in my top 5 Beach Boys songs. He also wrote "Where I Belong", for me; hands down the best BB song of the 80's. Plus his name is also credited on River Song, which is none too shabby a tune.
Carl is indeed credited as co-writer on River Song and yet Dennis gets all the praise.
Carl is also credited as co-writer on I Went To Sleep, Good Timin', Our Sweet Love, etc. and yet they're always referred to as 'Brian songs'.

And I'm willing to bet that the bits of All This Is That that Carl wrote are his own vocal sections i.e. the undisputed highlights of the song.

And yep, I too would put Trader and Feel Flows in my all-time top ten, and Where I Belong too.

Hell, i even like Goin' South. In fact, one day I'll be in a wooden cabin in Winter, deep within a snowy forest, with a log fire burning and a glass of mulled wine to hand, and Goin' South will be playing, and a kind of perfection will have been achieved.

Perhaps Carl would have been a more prolific songwriter had he not had to spend so much time worrying and carrying about his wild brothers...
Good points.  Carl was certainly integral, and we may never know his full contribution.  Although, when he sings, it's unmistakable.  You know, I've heard people, who don't like the Beach Boys, say they love "I Can Hear Music" and its the best Beach Boys song.  While I don't agree obviously, its someone's valid opinion, and something I found moving, and evidence that with Carl (as with Dennis) there was even more of audience waiting to be reached by this band.  Brian was just a part, potentially.  Oh... those wasted years.
Carl was the man.
Speaking of more of audience waiting to be reached by this band, I'm happy to say that I got my mom (who is a child of the 60s) into Dennis' music.  And I can't get her into the BBs to save my life.

My mom was never much of a BB fan (though she likes "Don't Worry Baby"), but in general she doesn't feel that emotional spark or connection to BB music, which I chalk up to both personal taste, as well as bias from the cheesy lilly-white goody-two-shoes BB stereotype that was surely well prevalent in LA in the 60s, where she grew up as a teen. Her fave bands of the era include The Beatles, The Byrds, Dylan, Joan Baez, etc. Mind you, she actually attended The T.A.M.I. show in the audience... but The Stones are the band that left her awestruck. The most praise she'll give the BBs when I play her tracks is "well, I guess that sounds nice, but it doesn't really do anything for me"... and I've even gone as far as to sit her down and play her The Smile Sessions album reconstruction from start to finish. No dice in making her a BB fan, even when giving her a brief history lesson of Smile in relation to Sgt. Pepper (an album which she deeply loves).

But... when I played her POB, she instantly liked it. Now, one could argue that her taste just gravitates toward a different style than typical BB songs (and it is difficult to say there is a "typical" BB style, with all the styles this band has done throughout the years). But it tells me something: Denny was on to something very special and unique which truly connected to people way outside of the BB universe.
Your mom still has pretty good taste in music and it is ok if she isn't wild about the BB's.  But, she is a wonderful resource of info about how the music of that time evolved.  And she would have great insight anyway.  It is pretty extraordinary that you got her to listen to POB! Bravo and a  Beer for you both!

And, the BB's are connected in lots of ways to the Beatles.  They are a mutual admiration society of sorts, and I think found inspiration from one another.   She must be amazed that you are so interested in this generation of music.  And, she went to the T.A.M.I. Show!  That is historic!

Good for you, both!   Wink

Don't Worry Baby got you in the door!   LOL

Yeah, I’m more or less done trying to “convert” her to realize the brilliance of this band. I did play her a few “wilderness years” deep cuts here and there (possibly some Holland stuff), plus Pet Sounds - but didn’t get much response. She won’t really connect with any of it… but POB was a different story – and she seemed to “get it” upon just 1 listen. It’s not like she’s some tremendous Denny fan now or anything, but she digs the album - POB resonated with her in a way very quickly, in a way that the BB never really did. Now maybe part of it is also partly psychological, since the name Dennis Wilson doesn’t have the “BB” stereotype baggage that a song under the “BB” banner could have to someone who grew up with the BB stereotype deeply ingrained; but still, I feel it’s indicative of Denny’s solo music having a special something, that even goes beyond what the cream of the BW-penned BB song crop has. But at the end of the day, it is comparing apples and oranges.

For me, being a tremendous fan of 60s music in general, I felt I’d want to do my part to get her into the BB, probably the most overlooked bands of the era for her. But maybe I went wrong when trying to tell her the BBs are in a similar league to The Beatles. She has a tremendous emotional and sentimental attachment to The Beatles; she says listening to them is like “listening to friends”. Unfortunately, actually listening to “Friends” has no effect on her.  Grin
5617  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson is insanely overrated on: December 12, 2013, 11:54:20 AM
I'm not quite sure how to rate Carl as a songwriter. He didn't write much throughout his career and much of it was mediocre. But and it's a big but, he wrote my favourite BB song ever "The Trader", as well as "Feel Flows" which is in my top 5 Beach Boys songs. He also wrote "Where I Belong", for me; hands down the best BB song of the 80's. Plus his name is also credited on River Song, which is none too shabby a tune.

Carl is indeed credited as co-writer on River Song and yet Dennis gets all the praise.

Carl is also credited as co-writer on I Went To Sleep, Good Timin', Our Sweet Love, etc. and yet they're always referred to as 'Brian songs'.

And I'm willing to bet that the bits of All This Is That that Carl wrote are his own vocal sections i.e. the undisputed highlights of the song.

And yep, I too would put Trader and Feel Flows in my all-time top ten, and Where I Belong too.

Hell, i even like Goin' South. In fact, one day I'll be in a wooden cabin in Winter, deep within a snowy forest, with a log fire burning and a glass of mulled wine to hand, and Goin' South will be playing, and a kind of perfection will have been achieved.

Perhaps Carl would have been a more prolific songwriter had he not had to spend so much time worrying and carrying about his wild brothers...

Good points.  Carl was certainly integral, and we may never know his full contribution.  Although, when he sings, it's unmistakable.  You know, I've heard people, who don't like the Beach Boys, say they love "I Can Hear Music" and its the best Beach Boys song.  While I don't agree obviously, its someone's valid opinion, and something I found moving, and evidence that with Carl (as with Dennis) there was even more of audience waiting to be reached by this band.  Brian was just a part, potentially.  Oh... those wasted years.

Carl was the man.

Speaking of more of audience waiting to be reached by this band, I'm happy to say that I got my mom (who is a child of the 60s) into Dennis' music.  And I can't get her into the BBs to save my life.

My mom was never much of a BB fan (though she likes "Don't Worry Baby"), but in general she doesn't feel that emotional spark or connection to BB music, which I chalk up to both personal taste, as well as bias from the cheesy lilly-white goody-two-shoes BB stereotype that was surely well prevalent in LA in the 60s, where she grew up as a teen. Her fave bands of the era include The Beatles, The Byrds, Dylan, Joan Baez, etc. Mind you, she actually attended The T.A.M.I. show in the audience... but The Stones are the band that left her awestruck. The most praise she'll give the BBs when I play her tracks is "well, I guess that sounds nice, but it doesn't really do anything for me"... and I've even gone as far as to sit her down and play her The Smile Sessions album reconstruction from start to finish. No dice in making her a BB fan, even when giving her a brief history lesson of Smile in relation to Sgt. Pepper (an album which she deeply loves).

But... when I played her POB, she instantly liked it. Now, one could argue that her taste just gravitates toward a different style than typical BB songs (and it is difficult to say there is a "typical" BB style, with all the styles this band has done throughout the years). But it tells me something: Denny was on to something very special and unique which truly connected to people way outside of the BB universe.
5618  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Some Bad News on: December 11, 2013, 11:58:24 PM
Surely this is just overdue confirmation of what we all knew in our hearts - or have I missed something ?

I JUST now realized that this was the Dennis biopic (which I thought was already cancelled...) and not the BW biopic.

I'm going to go to bed now...

I'd like to think that if Love and Mercy performs respectfully at the box office, it will surely increase the odds of this pic getting back on track.
Not holding my breath though.
5619  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson is insanely overrated on: December 11, 2013, 08:07:03 PM
IMO, Denny's music really grows on you. I'd always liked his music, but over the years, to my ears, it just gets better and better the deeper you dissect the composition, and listen to the true, true aching in the vocals, his bleeding on tape. I think that some people who don't "get" his music just haven't given it enough of a chance to grow on them.

I absolutely think that learning more about the man, his history/timeline, etc. got me deeper into his music (much like with many artists, of course, but with his music in particular)... but it's also that Denny's work isn't always quite as accessible on initial listenings.  The songs often have more unconventional structures/changes.

I really feel that much of his POB/Bambu work was influenced partially by SMiLE, as far as unconventional and experimental structures/changes happening. Denny clearly was enamored with the SMiLE album, and while his late 70s work was very different compared to SMiLE in terms of its textures/vibe, the structural and emotional ground that he was plowing was nevertheless really intricate and powerful (much like Brian's best work), and those are the areas where he was truly excelling/maturing at as an artist. It really, really sucks we will never know where he might have gone artistically.

Anyone else think that "School Girl" is one of the great lost BB-related hits? It sounds like a very calculated and clear cut attempt to make a popular radio hit (and I mean that in a good way), and I think it could've been a successful single, had it been marketed/released/promoted properly.

5620  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BB songs w/ scratch vocal versions by non-BB members on: December 11, 2013, 07:55:49 PM
Terry Melcher lead on demo for Happy Endings (idk if you consider that one)
Then there's John Phillips' early renditions of Somewhere Near Japan and Kokomo. (That may not be what you're looking for, but that's what I thought of)

I guess those are grey areas, but probably don't really count, seeing as I'm not sure what those songs (SNJ + Kokomo) were written for originally - I assume as potential John Philips solo material. Plus then we'd have to count Cease to Exist. I'm more thinking of instances where we have a partial backing track that eventually gets used for a BB release, but we have a non BB singing it as a demo for some reason.

A couple more things to ponder...

- Was the Rocky Pamplin-sung California Feelin' vocal recorded as a scratch demo for the BBs, or as a demo for a potential solo project of his?

- And I assume that random Amy gal singing along to the backing track of Let the Wind Blow was done just as a test to hear her vocal chops after the full BB version was already released or in the can?
5621  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / BB songs w/ scratch vocal versions by non-BB members on: December 11, 2013, 02:59:24 PM
Recent talk about a Stevie Wonder-sung version of "I Do Love You" made me wonder how many other songs in the BB canon have early versions with lead or backing vox sung by non-BB members. I'm guessing there are more that exist than we think, even if they've never been booted.

Some others that I know of:

- Wikipedia lists a Kokomo early version with Jeff Foskett (and I'm surprised this hasn't been released, even on MIC, since Mike is certainly proud of the song - unless this version is really a stinker. I'd still love to hear it).

- Honkin' Down the Highway (Billy Hinsche lead vox)... was this version ever an actual contender for release with Billy vocals? I imagine politics played a role in the song being re-sung by Al (and I *love* Al's lead, as well as Billy's to a lesser degree)

- Terry Melcher on the alternate God Only Knows (not sure if this should be considered a scratch vocal version though)

Any others?
5622  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Stevie Wonder and The Beach Boys on: December 11, 2013, 02:49:13 PM
What DID Stevie say about the Boys' version of "I was made to love her?"  I don't recall having read or heard.  I know I'm in the minority, but I thought the band (especially Carl) nailed that recording.  Also, did you learn anything at today's press conference?

I agree that the BBs nailed "I Was Made to Love Her"... although I think the extended version (with bridge) that's on the Rarities album is MUCH better, since it gives the song a chance to breathe a bit, and takes away a bit of the repetition. Even that janky edit of the voices cutting off at the end of the bridge is kinda sorta cool. I used to get bored with the album version upon my initial listenings of it, but the Rarities version made me listen to it in a new light, and it grew on me a lot.

Surprised that whoever made that decision (whether it be Brian or the band) went with the edit for the WH album version.
5623  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love's Nelson Mandela Facebook Post on: December 10, 2013, 02:51:04 PM
its the beach boys dude. they are hypocritical and inconsistent. get your point. no need to go on a million giant rants about it, you made your point the first post.

Glad you got the point. Not trying to sound like a broken record, which I'm sure I do at this point. Thing is, if people find the need to try and defend something I find especially indefensible, I feel implored to to respectfully disagree, and to say so. </rant>
5624  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love's Nelson Mandela Facebook Post on: December 10, 2013, 02:46:47 PM
Excuse my ignorance but is this quote attributed to Mike on tape or is this one of those heresay deals where someone said Mike said yada yada?

I heard Mike interviewed that he never actually said, "Don't Fu@k with the formula".

Jon and Ian's book attributes the quote to a newspaper (The Oklahoman) and a specific reporter who interviewed him (Gene Triplett). That's all I know, but that's enough for me to presume it can be substantiated.
5625  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love's Nelson Mandela Facebook Post on: December 10, 2013, 10:44:15 AM
This centurydeprived guy has got to be trolling  Roll Eyes


roll plymouth rock – No, I’m not trolling, just expressing my honest opinions on the matter.


I think that once it is acknowledged that playing Sun City does not equal endorsing apartheid, coming up with a 30+ year old "screw the UN" quote from an interview almost no one knew about, and backslashing Mike for it, seems unforgiving to a degree no poster would tolerate upon themselves.

Dr. Lenny – while a 32 year old quote may be “ancient history”, the fact that “almost no one knew about” the quote is of little consequence to me. It happened; the quote isn’t hearsay. Am I overanalyzing it? Perhaps. We’re on a BB message board; that’s what we nerds do – overanalyze minutia related to our favorite band. The quote was shared by well-respected BB authors (and they called it out as being “crass”, which it absolutely is) in a recently-published BB book. I have never accused Mike of “endorsing” apartheid, but I have accused him of speaking in a particularly despicable, wholly unempathetic manner about a very sensitive topic. I’m not quite sure why I (or anyone else) should be “forgiving” to the man for speaking in that manner.


As soon as I read the quote a few months ago (after reading the BB In Concert book from front to back), the crassness of it disgusted me to a pretty major degree – but... I saw no reason to start a thread about it here, because it was something in the past, unrelated to present events, albeit something that marked a low point for him, in my eyes.

It is only when Mike has a set of cojones big enough to casually mention Mandela last week on FB in a long post (presumably having long forgotten the 1981 interview/quote) that the hypocrisy got me bugged enough to mention it here.  However, I’d be somewhat forgiving if he ever owned up to it, even a smidgen. But I'm not holding my breath; owning up to past personal mistakes/regrets (at least in a public capacity) isn’t exactly one of Mike’s best-known attributes. If he tried doing so from time to time, even just a little, methinks that many people would go easier on him on a great many issues. To give Mike possible credit: maybe his 2013 FB posting is Mike's own way (without fessing up) of trying to do/say something positive to counteract his previous quote (which he currently may not exactly be proud of).  But I have no idea. My guess is that the 1981 quote is, to him, long out of sight/long out of mind.
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