I don't contribute that often so, be kind. I am no Fan of Mike Love. That being said, I feel that he contributed one hell of a lot to the BB. I agree that he he is tactless and I think that his stage presence and on-stage banter is corny and, at times embarrassing. His contribution through his lyrics was very important to the success that they have enjoyed through the years. that is my position. Crucify me if you like.
One damned thing that has bugged me a lot though is why he took so many years to complain about his uncredited composing? I would have bitched and complained the minute that any disks came out with my name omitted the moment that I noticed it. He's is presented so often as a money grabber. Why would he miss out on the royalties and not complain from the start. I will never understand that.
I agree with an earlier statement that Carl had his head screwed on right but we are forgetting little old Al.
I think that Mike deserves credit and respect for his contributions. The fact that I don't particularly like the guy has no bearing on my respect for guys contributions..

I similarly find it hard to understand why it took him so long to complain about the credits, but then I think of the Bill Cosby rape case, where the many women who took forever to deal with their cases too had their reasons. That in and of itself doesn't make me outright doubt the legitimacy of the claims. I guess Mike must have either been afraid of the legal mess, or afraid that this could get ugly to the point of potentially harming the personal relationship with Brian in the 60s/70s, during a period which he felt there could be (and indeed would be) further Brian/Mike collaborations which a lawsuit could have impeded.  Some people think he was waiting for Brian's most weakened non-protected time to jump. I dunno. It's weird, like everything else with this band.

Denny on lead vocals, I take it? I wonder what inspired the newfound 1975 interest in this song.

Given its vaguely jazzy/torch song vibe, I sort of see it as a precursor of Brian's Adult/Child work in that vein. I can't think of another BW song with that vibe from before the mid-70s.

Totally agree. I wonder if Brian tinkering with it again in 1975 helped inspire the A/C tracks.

Do any recording of "In the Back of My Mind" live from 1975 exist?

Yes, St. Louis, May 19th 1975. Audience recording.

Denny on lead vocals, I take it? I wonder what inspired the newfound 1975 interest in this song.

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

Heya Sheriff - Mike is getting criticized for using the statement ALWAYS in relation to dominance for concepts/lyrics in a songwriting relationship. While it's fair to point out that many people unfairly "blame" Mike for a lot of things (when in fact it's more complicated than any one person's "fault"), I don't think your statement has airtight logic. Who is "blaming" Mike for writing awesome lyrics like The Warmth of the Sun or Kiss Me Baby or Please Let Me Wonder? Nobody, that's who. Mike did not entirely and wholly write or dominate with concepts about sun/fun, despite a large chunk of material being of that nature. He also wrote rad lyrics and contributed/co-contributed rad concepts about other topics that nobody "complains" about him having written about.

It's shades of grey, not black and white... MUCH like it's shades of grey and surely not black and white regarding Mike ALWAYS being the dominant lyrical/concept guy in his and Brian's relationship. It's just an overreaching statement to say things in absolutes, and nobody should try to defend that Mike is correct in making such an absolute, extremist claim. His words are being picked apart for a legit reason!

To admit that he's probably exaggerating to an extent is not to vilify the man. His words can (and do) have a partial element of truth to them, but that doesn't mean they don't also go too far in stretching the truth. I feel like because he is vilified for a lot of reasons (many of which are unfair/exaggerated), some people have adopted an inability to admit that he is exaggerating/overreaching in this instance, just to somehow "help him out" on the overall big-picture defense front.

Still Cruisin' CD can be bought cheaply on ebay.  SIP can be picked up now and again for a good price.  I would love to have that one on vinyl!

It was released on vinyl in South Korea.

Yip, and it's extremely rare and expensive hence the reason I'd prefer a vinyl re-issue rather than cd to complete my vinyl collection.  The artwork was also cool and would look great as a gatefold vinyl cover, with bigger poster included!  I have both cd versions.

Was South Korea simply a market which catered to obsolete legacy formats, where people were still purchasing vinyl in a non-hipster way at that time, because technology was simply behind the times?

I just wonder if South Korea happen to be a place where other obscure albums were uniquely sold on vinyl at the time, or if it was somehow a unique circumstance for this particular album.

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

I know this post wasn't addressed to me but firstly I am prepared to admit openly that I consider Mike wanted to maintain the concept of Endless Summer type material. Had Mike said 'I was the main lyricist for a large part of the Beach Boys' career and the idea of Endless Summer type songs was mine' I'd have found this perfectly acceptable. Mike deliberately phrased this in a way that suggested he was creatively more significant than Brian and THAT is what I take exception to.

That is common sense, absolutely. Yet whatever it was about that phrase and the reaction to it has led to those who legitimately did take exception to it (and can lay out reasons why) now being tagged with having an "anti-Mike bias", with hypocrisy, any number of other charges, and have had to read through 10+ pages of attempts to parse and perform surgery on the actual words spoken in order to "explain" or "interpret" the meaning intended versus what was actually said.

And the really sad part of all that is had the words been chosen more carefully, had they been phrased just a bit differently, none of the explanations and defenses and parsing-spinning would have happened. It could have been a positive, but that's not how it played out. Unfortunately that's usually not how it plays out over the past few years, and that is a total mystery why it continues to happen. It doesn't need to.

It is sad isn't it. And it doesn't need to be. But, why is it so? Well, maybe because when Brian is interviewed and says something that is totally untrue (and there are times it can be factually proven), many people on this board take the position, "Oh, that's just Brian being being Brian. Funny guy. And, (cough) well, we know he's had some problems..."  But, when Mike says something, well, it has to be totally torn apart, word for word, and turned it into a multi-page Mike bashing fest. I guess THAT has to be.

Does Brian say Mike is controlled? Does Brian publicly take backhanded swipes at the people Mike works with? Does Brian decry auto-tune in Mike's solo output before he even fucking hears the music? When Brian is asked "what things do you regret from you past?" he doesn't respond by bitching about things Mike did back in the day. THAT is why people dislike Mike. That is why there is a definite anti-Mike slant on the board. Brian gets something factually wrong, it probably is due to him being forgetful. Yet Brian is always humble, always kind to his cousin and brothers when being interviewed. Mike on the other hand proves he is completely tactless in nearly every interview - whether its him being boastful, or him taking pot-shots at Brian and his management.

This times 1000.

I don't think ANYONE can argue that Mike is the most tactless BB member, relatively speaking. Nobody even comes close.

Billy I've said it several times since I arrived here.  Mike's 'foot in mouth' disease is a LARGE problem.  He is his own worst enemy constantly.  He very MUCH needs to hire a PR company.  His book is gonna be ripped to shreds and used to start forest fires of Mike Love books if he prints out THIS kind of bullshit.

He has his strengths...and like all of us he has his weaknesses.  No amount of a self-appointed Mike Love Cavalry can ride to the rescue of the fly attractant he spews.  Most people will ignore his tomfoolery.  But when it comes out in book form ...'on the record' as it were...and when the critics get a hold of it...he'll be made the laughing stock of the month...elegible to be the grand prize winner of 2016...and possibly the entire decade.



--------------------

Hire some PR people and avoid this...and ultimately THAT.

Problem is, having a PR person filter wacky statements like these would necessitate the person saying them has any idea of how he comes off, and wanting to get a PR person to help out...and I don't think Mike does have any self-awareness in that department. I don't think he thinks there's a problem whatsoever with using the "dominant" word in a Brian Wilson sentence, as though those two words together (regardless of "good intent") should give most sensible people the creeps, knowing Brian's history of being literally being dominated by his dad and shrink. There's like 5 people on this board who don't think it's a problem, and perhaps casual fans who think Carl Wilson was the dad, but most people who know the history of the band would see that as being an icky thing to say, let alone the inaccuracy of saying "always" in place of "sometimes" or "often".

Plus, a PR person costs money. And we know how the overhead must be cut, cut, cut.

Is it fair to say that Mike Love's lyrics to "Spring Vacation" proves that he was the dominant creative force in selling fans the fact that C50 symbolized the FUTURE of the BB's? (No mention of an "end date" anywhere that I can recall. . . )

Hmmmm.  Just a few tweaks and…

Driving around living the dream
I'm crusin' the town, diggin' the scene
I'm not gonna stress, not gonna worry
Doing our best, no need to hurry
Lookin' ahead with anticipation
To the set end date of this celebration
Seems like it could take forever
Al even thinks we can all stay together

Maybe Joe Thomas did some editorial work. It would explain why Mike doesn't want him in the "room"!

 

Is it fair to say that Mike Love's lyrics to "Spring Vacation" proves that he was the dominant creative force in selling fans the fact that C50 symbolized the FUTURE of the BB's? (No mention of an "end date" anywhere that I can recall. . . )

(crickets from the Cam corner)...

Agreed, Century, with one caveat...I think Mike had full awareness of what the term implied in regards to Brian.

Billy, I guess what I meant regarding lack of awareness is lack of how it could come off to others by saying it. I cannot fathom someone close to Brian innocuously and happily using the term "dominate" or "dominant" in a positive light, after his well-known history. Regardless of intention, I think history has shown it's a bit "inappropriate" for that word to be used in the same sentence as Brian, to use a term that Carl liked to use. IMHO.

And thus another damning quote from Mike is turned into gold by Cam.

It's totally innocuous! We're putting words in his mouth! Listen, the statement is utterly clear about what's going on, and about what Mike is saying both directly and indirectly.

Love: Find someone with which to collaborate, someone whose strengths complement your strengths. That's the thing I did with my cousin Brian. He was a gifted arranger and composer of music, but lyrically and conceptually, I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship. Collaboration is key.

We've established Mike wasn't the dominant creative force in the group. (And that was totally the implication Mike was making. You're naive to think otherwise.)

If we need to go through the BW/ML co-writes we can, but I think it's pretty clear that he wasn't "always" the dominant creative force there, either. As though contributing four words to "Wouldn't it Be Nice" or a hook to "I Get Around" or a child's singsong chant to "Kokomo" is being dominant. He's adding a bit of icing to a cake that's already baked and decorated, and then demanding that we all recognize him as a master pastry chef.

Maybe speaking for myself, but I really do think that if Mike just used the term "often" or "at times" instead of "always", and "a" instead of "THE", that we'd be less annoyed. It would have its roots closer to accuracy. It's a big distinction, and I don't think it's splitting hairs.  We are talking about a very famous, much dissected writing partnership, to one of the most famous and important bands of the 20th century. It's not an unimportant distinction.

By this logic, Mike should say "Dennis was drunk and belligerent at EVERY show".

Also, is it just me, or is it mighty awkward to use the term "dominant" which has its origins with the word "dominate" when speaking in terms of a relationship with Brian Wilson? To use such a term shows a lack of awareness of how icky a term that is to associate with a one-on-one relationship with Brian specifically, because of his relationships with Murry and Landy especially.

Filled...when Mike was here in November at the Rotary Club Banquet he payed the Pisces Brother video and the song and it was well received by all in attendance.  [He did NOT add in 'Brian's Back'. ]

What would happen if Mike performed Brian's Back at a M&B show these days? Something tells me 90% of the audience would just bop their heads and be completely oblivious to the irony 

Pretty sure that Mike wrote the music to LTWB, too. Brian re-arranged it a bit.

One of his finest moments, to be sure.

He didn't say he was the dominant lyricist Filled.  Plainly he said he was the dominant CREATIVE force.  I stand by my initial post on this matter accurately typed and posted on page 2 just after 7:08 eastern daylight savings time this morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And...over the long haul...the whole 9...the complete body of work...the material not properly relegated to being a concert medley highlight of once upon a time historic oldies...the only thing Mike is back to being dominant at is holding a microphone.

There's a thread here which talks about the era when the Beach Boys peaked as a live act.  The concensus is that they peaked when Mike stepped back a little and when the tambourine wasn't so essential to the realization of a truly great and gifted show.  Then Jack left...and we got 15 bigguns...and slowly but surely it all started to sink.  [thanks to dominance.]

Add Some - I have the article open, reading it line by line, and don't see that at all. He appears to be only taking credit for his partnership with lyrics and ideas for lyrics.  There could be "scriveners" errors.  It ain't the NYTimes or WSJ.

That tone of "dominant" overall is just not the theme running though the article.  It is more general, contrasting the touring conditions and acoustics of venues.  This has been "spun" on this board with one word.  JMHO

Nonsense. It's clear what Mike is saying. Yes, he starts the sentence by specifying "lyrically and conceptually" (the second part of which is incredibly questionable), but ends up going to "always the dominant creative force." That's far broader, and far more egregious.

You left off "in that relationship".

But even that is questionable....it'd be different if Mike had written the lyrics first, handed them to Brian, and said 'hey, write some music to this', when in truth it was either the other way around, or them writing together. Lyrically, well, I have always given Mike his due. Conceptually, well, read my first sentence again. Brian set the tone of the song with his music, and Mike (to his credit) came up with the perfect lyrics for it. If we're being objective here, *neither* was dominant at the time conceptually.

Do we know if that ever happened? Wasn't it said that Let the Wind Blow and possibly All I Wanna Do were more written in that manner?

He knows no bounds in that department of taking credit!

Watch this scene from an early episode of "Dallas". Substitute the dialog words "power" or "money" with "credit"...and "Ewing Oil" with "The Beach Boys", and it's eerily accurate  
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGdfPtW56fo&feature=youtu.be&start=85

There's a thread here which talks about the era when the Beach Boys peaked as a live act.  The concensus is that they peaked when Mike stepped back a little and when the tambourine wasn't so essential to the realization of a truly great and gifted show.  Then Jack left...and we got 15 bigguns...and slowly but surely it all started to sink.  [thanks to dominance.]

It was also nice to see Mike's well-written and thoughtful tribute to Jack that Mike posted on his Facebook page shortly after Jack's passing... oh, wait.

singing with the whales
chili dogs
toothpaste
velvet robes
jeweled scepter
goshdarned
gregorian chants
 scorched meat

Somebody needs to write one new Beach Boy song with all of those above lyrics in it! "After eating chili dogs with a fork on a seat, I took the jeweled scepter and wished myself a plate of scorched meat"... etc etc

I believe Carl himself said it wasn't permanent, at the time.  He said something to the effect that he'd "...be back when 1981 meant as much to them as 1961."

Sounds right Steve.  He was ticked off.  I was sorry that his 2 solo albums came up a little short.  A couple of nifty tunes on both lps...but, all in all, too much filler.  His return, then, was inevitable on a couple of fronts.  I'm sure that the '3 votes' realized that they were $uffering LARGE w/o him.  I'd also imagine that they primarily agreed to some of Carl's requests and demands for their own $elf Pre$ervation.  T'was the light that shone brightest.

Other than Brian in the early days, could any other Beach Boy other than Carl have made such a threat at any time in the band's history? To have quit the band, given the band an ultimatum of some sort, and then gotten (sort of) what they wanted/demanded from the band upon their return? I'm guessing no, almost laughably so.

We're all waiting for that dominant creativity and conceptual content to take full flight, Mike! Now that you're unshackled from Al Jardine and forever banished from The Room with Cousin Brian, that solo album should prove once and for all who the real genius is, surely.

 God, it's a shame Radio Shack went bankrupt before they could put it out.

That's Why God Made The Radio Shack.

What I legitimately want to know, is why Love's one solo album has next to no songs written or co-written by Love himself, even on the original compositions. So, so odd. I cannot imagine that would happen today. Did some of Mike's other unreleased solo albums have similar very little Mike writing contributions?

I can only imagine how much of a bummer it must have been when Carl left.

Was it a case of "tough love" where Carl knew all along he was going to come back? Or did he ever actually consider not returning to the group? And how much of these plans were secret (both to the other band members, to insiders within the BB world, and to fans)?

Did some people think that this was really the end of him being in the band?

Mike- hairless Poodle...  (just kidding) 

A STUFFED hairless poodle.  [and not housebroken]  Needs to be followed with a shovel and a double strength garbage bag.

Little Deuce Pooper Scooper

Got it. So anything less than that extreme example = not taking too far I suppose. Who in your estimation would be an example of a person actually taking things too far in the bragging department? Kanye West maybe?

The day Mike starts mentioning himself in the same breath as people such as Martin Luther King like that douche did, I will hold my hand up and say he has gone too far.

Agreed; Kanye is Douchey McDoucherson in the braggart department. Probably the most extreme example ever known in the entertainment industry. (Although, an argument could be made that the Mike-sung, though not Mike-written, "Good Vibrations/Assassinations" lyric, is a not entirely dissimilar same-breath example )

Point is that one doesn't have to fall that far into the Kanye batsh*t crazy territory for it to also be said that they seem to have a pattern of consistently bragging too much, a pattern that ultimately doesn't help their "plight", so to speak. One can be a few steps more modest than Kanye and still go too far.

Is there a dog breed known for humping everything in sight? (More so than other dog breeds)? Sorta like the bonobo monkey of dogs? That would be Denny, I guess 

Exactly, Mike needs to puff himself up for no reason. I don't see Tony Asher or VDP doing the same stuff on a consistent basis.

Well, he has a reason. He did cowrite a significant streak of hits with Brian in the 60s. That's undeniable, and it was a remarkable achievement (I say that non-sarcastically, but legitimately), but that probably warped his way of thinking (ie. he got a big head over it). Kokomo without Brian really sealed the deal in that department. Does Mike not think he has a big head and inflated ego, or that he brags too much? And if he does not, who would he (or any diehard Kokomoaists) quantify as an example of someone else with a big head and inflated ego who brags too much?

Sure Mike is a bragger - if I'd co-written 4 US #1s I'd be braggin too! Is he not allowed to take pride in what he has accomplished when giving interviews?

I understand you feel that way about Mike but do you believe that it is possible that people can brag *too much*? Even people who have legit accomplishments? Is that possible? Where would you draw that line?

If Mike started telling the mailman everytime he came to the door that he was the guy who had a #1 with Kokomo or told the guy behind the counter at the grocery store that he came up with the hook to Good Vibrations whenever he dropped in to pick up a quart of apple juice, then yes that would be taking it too far. But mentioning his achievements in an interview, I can't see the problem.

Got it. So anything less than that extreme example = not taking too far I suppose. Who in your estimation would be an example of a person actually taking things too far in the bragging department? Kanye West maybe?

Exactly, Mike needs to puff himself up for no reason. I don't see Tony Asher or VDP doing the same stuff on a consistent basis.

Well, he has a reason. He did cowrite a significant streak of hits with Brian in the 60s. That's undeniable, and it was a remarkable achievement (I say that non-sarcastically, but legitimately), but that probably warped his way of thinking (ie. he got a big head over it). Kokomo without Brian really sealed the deal in that department. Does Mike not think he has a big head and inflated ego, or that he brags too much? And if he does not, who would he (or any diehard Kokomoaists) quantify as an example of someone else with a big head and inflated ego who brags too much?

Sure Mike is a bragger - if I'd co-written 4 US #1s I'd be braggin too! Is he not allowed to take pride in what he has accomplished when giving interviews?

I understand you feel that way about Mike, but do you believe that it is humanly possible that people can brag *too much*? Even people who have legit accomplishments? Is that possible? Where would you draw that line?