I highly doubt the C50 tour (even if it was all smiles and roses and continued to this day) would have any effect on L&M.

As I've said elsewhere (and HeyJude agrees with me), the Mike character in the film doesn't say or do anything that comes anywhere near a hatchet job.

So you could see L&M actually coming out in its current, unaltered form, in 2015, without any effect on either the film or a continually/perpetually reunited 2015 "all smiles" BBs? That the film would come out and the band would happily continue on chuggin' without any disruptions in the force, so to speak?

I guess the thought of an "all smiles" 2012 or 2015 BBs is a stretch in and of itself, but even if such were the case, for that to happen would have (at the very least) required numerous concessions and giving in to demands for Mike to have his way in writing songs with Brian the way he saw fit... and I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a guy who would make such C50 demands (it meant so much to him that he seemingly walked away due to being unhappy with how he fit into those circumstances after going ahead with the contracted tour + a few additional dates) would just happily go along with L&M in its current form (unless he had no political leverage, and had no escape hatch, so to speak), and not make any demands regarding his portrayal. I think that would be out of character, especially considering that C50 fell apart at least in part likely due to unhappiness over Mike not feeling he got his "due" in some fashion. Do you really think he'd just grin and bear it?

Fans of trivia and minutiae might be interested to know that the scene between the characters of Melinda and Landy that takes place in the alley behind Landy's office was filmed at a building near the corner of Westwood Blvd. and Ohio Ave. in West L.A. This, if I am not mistaken, was indeed the real life location of Landy's office/Brains & Genius.

I am most certainly a fan of trivia and minutiae, so thanks for that info! Looking at google maps, that intersection brings back memories of being a kid in the '80s in West LA. I guess Landy's office of Brains & Genius was right next to both the former location of All American Burger (Brian must've loved that on occasions where he might have been allowed a burger) as well as right next to the former location of Rhino Records.

I think if the C50 had continued, L&M wouldn't have happened, at least not in the form we know. Certainly the books and NPP wouldn't have happened.

Making the band a true, ongoing concern would have entailed sacrifices on all fronts to keep everyone happy.

Exactly.

I don't see any connection between C50 & this new film (& vice versa). This thread makes no sense.

So you are saying that if C50 had not imploded, and if Mike got to write in a room with Brian and was happily still in some semblance of a functioning musical and/or personal working relationship with Brian, that L&M would have been released as the same film that it currently is (without pushback from Mike regarding his portrayal)? I'm not sure I see that as plausible, and I don't think you can simply remove elements (like C50) from being part of the overall equation of why some things happen and why some things don't. That's a gross oversimplification; a relationship (or lack thereof) between two people is going to matter and make a difference one way or another on a biopic, IMHO. Don't you think?  

Or to put it another way; if you think that L&M would have been released exactly as it was, and C50 had continued past 2012, the way Brian wanted it to... would the film in its current form not possibly help put an end to the reunion? Mind you... I am NOT saying the film is divisive; I think it's fair, honest, and quite brilliant. I just hypothesize that Mike would make a stink over him possibly feeling it's a divisive film if he were to ever see the film, because the truth hurts, and I don't think he wants to see Brian's own truth onscreen if it makes Mike not look good.

Was there pushback from Mike? I haven't heard a word.

No, because there appears to be no current relationship between Mike and Brian / Melinda. My point is that if there was any kind of relationship where the people were in fact meeting, talking, seeing each other (as would be the case if C50 had continued), there would almost certainly have been some pushback, IMHO.

I don't see any connection between C50 & this new film (& vice versa). This thread makes no sense.

So you are saying that if C50 had not imploded, and if Mike got to write in a room with Brian and was happily still in some semblance of a functioning musical and/or personal working relationship with Brian, that L&M would have been released as the same film that it currently is (without pushback from Mike regarding his portrayal)? I'm not sure I see that as plausible, and I don't think you can simply remove elements (like C50) from being part of the overall equation of why some things happen and why some things don't. That's a gross oversimplification; a relationship (or lack thereof) between two people is going to matter and make a difference one way or another on a biopic, IMHO. Don't you think?  

Or to put it another way; if you think that L&M would have been released exactly as it was, and C50 had continued past 2012, the way Brian wanted it to... would the film in its current form not possibly help put an end to the reunion? Mind you... I am NOT saying the film is divisive; I think it's fair, honest, and quite brilliant. I just hypothesize that Mike would make a stink over him possibly feeling it's a divisive film if he were to ever see the film, because the truth hurts, and I don't think he wants to see Brian's own truth onscreen if it makes Mike not look good.

Nobody talks more about Brian's drug use with more regret than Brian.

Nor should anybody even come within many miles of doing so.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Vincent-Bugliosi-Dies-at-80-306583811.html

Another peripheral person from the BB saga has passed. Did Bugliosi interview Denny, or try to get Denny peripherally involved in the Manson murder case? I imagine that Denny had stories/info which prosecutors would have found valuable to the case, at least tangentially speaking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAeXSYOrXhE

Don't forget this one, apparently one of those mysterious camcorder videos. Landy bragging about his new car bought with Brian's money.

And a Corvette ZR-1, no less, not exactly the cheapest car at the time.

It would be really fascinating to know what Gene Landy would do/say if he were alive today and L&M were released as is. I wonder if he'd try to defend himself, or just stay in hiding of sorts in Hawaii without saying a peep about it. I don't know how he could defend his own scumbaggery, anymore than I can understand his son's defense angle.

[

The quality of L&M obviously has a lot to do with the effect it's had. But I think another factor is that it feels like Brian Wilson has been revealed to the whole world (putting aside delayed release dates, of course). I know he's already famous and many people know his story and have heard his music, but it still feels like I've had a secret for the past 50 years and now it's been revealed. The world feels different somehow.

This is so true. I went into work today, and had convos with several coworkers who'd seen the film, but who were previously just casual BB fans. They were really shocked at learning lots of things they never knew before in the true saga of the band/Brian. I think this film went a long way at just informing people of the fascinating twists and turns of the story (or at least part of it, since this wasn't a career-spanning biopic), and it does sorta feel like the secret is out.

IMO, I've felt that Brian and The BBs have been the best-kept secret in the history of rock music for decades now (not that they were an actual secret, but to a point; the immense genius and heartwrenching stories were buried beneath layers of Full House/Stamos/Endless Summer fun-in-the-sun moldy cheese, and largely only BB/BW cultist freaks like us nerds knew about this stuff)... now the whole world can know, and dig deeper into the catalog, and gain even more respect for the immense and unlikely personal triumphs that Brian Douglas Wilson has achieved in his life.

This weeks "Entertainment Weekly " magazine give the movie a C-. First half good, the Cusak half bad they say. June 12 issue.

Entertainment Weekly sucks ass!! Not just about this absurd review, but in general. This movie is tops.

Will be interesting to see if Mike specifically addresses his portrayal in Love & Mercy in his autobio. I think the film did make an effort to not just blindly make Mike seem completely one-sided, and it did throw a few bones of empathy his way, despite still showing him to be somewhat of a thorn in Brian's side during the time period which the film covered.

I, for one, cannot not see Love & Mercy having been released in the theaters in its current form unless a level of estrangement between Mike and Brian was part of the real-life equation, as it in fact appears to sadly be. I cannot see them working together in a reunited band with the film coming out as it did in its current form, since Mike would probably have thrown a fit, or tried to throw his political weight around in order to force the film to be more fair in his eyes.

In all honesty, and all jokes aside, I do wonder what that fairness level would actually be, as determined by Mike. Yes, the horrid TV films with his (or were they his?) viewpoints came out years ago... but if Brian and Melinda were going to spearhead the making of a biopic about Brian Wilson, and it was going to focus only on the few select time periods in his life that L&M actually did (in order to have an actual narrative flow, and to work as a film)... presuming as I am that Mike may be irked by the final product... what would Mike have wanted the actual film to portray?

I guess some scenes of Mike adding relatable lyrics to Good Vibrations, and showing how that was an important part of the process, and perhaps a few less of the scenes of creative friction between Mike and Brian. I wonder if Mike was able to have any leverage, if he'd have let *any* creative friction type material make it into the final product, or if such scenes would only had to have been framed within the context of ridding the BB world of leaches and druggies. And maybe a scene of how extremely pissed at Landy Mike was during the 80s.

I suppose one could say that we have our answer to what Mike's preferred filmed vision would be with the previous TV films, but it's interesting to ponder if C50 had not imploded, if there would/could have been a compromise reached, and for L&M to still be a rad film (focusing on the minimal amount of eras that this film did) while still satisfying Mike's desire for a BW biopic film that Mike would legitimately feel is fair to him. Perhaps this is as much an impossibility as the alone in the room scenario, but it would be interesting to see Mike's hypothetical "notes" for changes for the film.

Please make "wheenn" happen!

With smaller BB films like Bigger Than The Beatles (apparently?) happening, one almost could believe that a smaller indie filmmaker, passionate and determined about his subject, could maybe get "Whennn" off the ground. I'd go see it.

American family is Mike's story.

Essentially, yes. When Uncle Jesse is in the producer's seat, that's what you get. Well, maybe Mike could get a Mike-centric theatrical biopic made, called "Whennn". It could happen... right?

I meant that Mike (via his lawyers) stressed that the film be explicitly classified as a biopic of Brian Wilson, so that print materials--and presumably, subsequent reviews--would not mistake the film for a biopic of the Beach Boys.

Because, of course, the ultimate final-word biopic of The Beach Boys was already made 15 years ago for TV, and it would not be desirable to try to rewrite the facts of that film, nor would it be smart to cause confusion in the marketplace with a second biopic of the band proper   Truth be told, L&M is Brian's story, not an attempt at a full-scope BBs' story, which is why it works so well.

Will be interesting to see if Mike specifically addresses his portrayal in Love & Mercy in his autobio. I think the film did make an effort to not just blindly make Mike seem completely one-sided, and it did throw a few bones of empathy his way, despite still showing him to be somewhat of a thorn in Brian's side during the time period which the film covered.

I, for one, cannot not see Love & Mercy having been released in the theaters in its current form unless a level of estrangement between Mike and Brian was part of the real-life equation, as it in fact appears to sadly be. I cannot see them working together in a reunited band with the film coming out as it did in its current form, since Mike would probably have thrown a fit, or tried to throw his political weight around in order to force the film to be more fair in his eyes.

I'm trying to see how Love & Mercy in its current form would have gotten released if C50 had not imploded the way it did.

How far into development was Love & Mercy at the time of C50?

I'm guessing that current-day Mike isn't going to be thrilled with his final portrayal in the film Love & Mercy, even though IMO it's fair and doesn't seem to perpetuate false information about Mike (though it doesn't exactly play Mike's positive contributions "up", which would probably be what would irritate Mike out the most).

What I'm pondering is, was Mike in any way "in the know" about what the film was going to be about, how he himself would be portrayed in the film, either during or pre C50? And I do wonder if he would have at least tried to influence his portrayal in the film if he had found a way to do so.

Conversely, I wonder if the making of the film could have helped undo C50, if people not named Brian Wilson were going to find their soon-to-be filmed portrayal(s) as a dealbreaker.

I’m curious if the director (or writers or the actors) were given the Gary Usher book as reference. That may have the most detailed account of the vibe Landy’s operation gave, at least for that period of time, 1986-87-ish.

The most detailed account would have to be the mysterious videotapes of this era, right? I recall reading that there were dozens and dozens of them, as Brian was filmed daily. I'd tend to think there'd be many, many hours of documented Landy/Brian footage on there, showing just how twisted Landy was in his actions.

Certainly hundreds of hours of footage would be the most direct source, although it would take a lot of time to wade through (and would perhaps have a lot more of Brian than Landy if the idea was for Landy to keep tabs on Brian when Landy wasn’t there).

The Usher book simply might be the most detailed published source.

I’m not sure how much Landy material they actually went through. I’ve seen a number of references to the Primetime Live 1991 interview with Diane Sawyer. Sounds like that was a major source, at least in terms of getting Landy’s persona. I think Giamatti has referenced listening to other “tapes”, though I’m not sure what tapes those are.

Where's that creepy video from, the one with Brian sitting right by Landy, with Brian doing some odd twisting motion with his hands (while Landy mentions Elvis)? Does anyone know where that brief video is sourced from? Was that from some longer 1984-ish era interview or something?  

I’m curious if the director (or writers or the actors) were given the Gary Usher book as reference. That may have the most detailed account of the vibe Landy’s operation gave, at least for that period of time, 1986-87-ish.

The most detailed account would have to be the mysterious videotapes of this era, right? I recall reading that there were dozens and dozens of them, as Brian was filmed daily. I'd tend to think there'd be many, many hours of documented Landy/Brian footage on there, showing just how twisted Landy was in his actions.

The real news in that article is that Darian is 52. Christ!

Seriously.  Even more maddening for those of us that have known him for a long time.  I first met Darian in 1992 and even in person he looks virtually identical now as then.

Darian's the new Dick Clark. Ageless.

  My guess is that Mike Love plays a better sax than 90% of the posters on this site and about the same for the general population. It's OK with me that Mike chooses not to dabble with the guitar on stage. Some frontmen who do so are quite competent (Mick Jagger) while others are generally posers (Bono).

  Daltrey never played guitar on stage during the glory days of The Who (65-82 being generous) but has often during latter day tours.

I wonder how many people think that Mike was the actual studio sax player on Kokomo, due to the music video?

I never knew Whoopi was such a deep fan of Brian's work. I wonder if she's the reason for the song Happy Endings being on the soundtrack for her film The Telephone back in 1988? Does anyone know the story of that song? Was it written directly for the film? Maybe Whoopi requested it...

http://nypost.com/2015/06/04/how-one-quack-doctor-almost-destroyed-brian-wilsons-career/
Article about Landy, w/ comments from Brian & Melinda.

Melinda mentions that she'd let her mom know when she would go to talk to Landy. I think her mother was supposed to be portrayed in L&M. There's an article from 2013 at Deadline.com saying that Kathy Baker was cast as Rosemary Ledbetter. There's also a credit on IMDb for Dee Wallace in that role. I wonder if anything w/ either actress was filmed.

That would have been a trip if Dee Wallace had been cast, since her late hubby Christopher Stone was at one point Scott Wilson's stepdad.

And I really don't mean to badmouth Carl -- or John-Roger for that matter, who by all accounts was better than, say, L. Ron Hubbard. It's just to point out that this is the level-headed "sane" Wilson brother we're talking about.

I think it's safe to say that there was a tendency for members of the group to look to a strong outside force to solve all their problems. Mike and the maharishi, the Wilsons with Jack Reilly, Landy, etc., etc. That's how they saw their lives and careers. Find a guy who knows what he's doing, and leave it to him. There's an expectation that someone else will know better, that someone else has it all figured out. Given that most of them became famous and wealthy in their teens (or shortly out of them), the BBs have never known a regular adult life, one in which you have to make tough decisions on your own, all the time.

The treatment approach Brian would have arguably benefited the most from -- a team-based approach with minimal medication, centered on Brian's needs and no one else's -- was anathema to them. Heck, it was probably anathema to him.

Murry's management of the group and his role as an overbearing father could have been a reason for this as well.

No doubt about it.

And I really don't mean to badmouth Carl -- or John-Roger for that matter, who by all accounts was better than, say, L. Ron Hubbard. It's just to point out that this is the level-headed "sane" Wilson brother we're talking about.

I think it's safe to say that there was a tendency for members of the group to look to a strong outside force to solve all their problems. Mike and the maharishi, the Wilsons with Jack Reilly, Landy, etc., etc. That's how they saw their lives and careers. Find a guy who knows what he's doing, and leave it to him. There's an expectation that someone else will know better, that someone else has it all figured out. Given that most of them became famous and wealthy in their teens (or shortly out of them), the BBs have never known a regular adult life, one in which you have to make tough decisions on your own, all the time.

The treatment approach Brian would have arguably benefited the most from -- a team-based approach with minimal medication, centered on Brian's needs and no one else's -- was anathema to them. Heck, it was probably anathema to him.

Truth. That last paragraph really sums it up.

On the original 16 track of FALLIN' IN LOVE, just before the master take begins, Dennis (who was singing live during the basic tracking) quietly announces, "'So Tough' by Carl and the Passions."

Wow, that is fascinating. Must have been a double-take moment when you first heard that on the tape!