Very cool & mellow. I like it!

So how does your collaboration process work? Does Swedish Frog write the lyrics and Rab then comes up with a melody and records it?

Holy moly! Glad to see you on here, Brian.

REALLY looking forward to No Pier Pressure!  

In the wake of Kim's death, Mike Stax has just posted the entire, very long interview with him he did in Ugly Things magazine in 2001.  It primarily covers the period from the start of '64 to the end of '69, but Kim manages to work in many references to his pre-'64 career.

In it he describes precisely what he did on behalf of Pet Sounds in the UK.  It's interesting that Derek Taylor acted as the middleman when Kim arranged to help Bruce bring PS to the attention of the UK's pop royalty. (With some assistance from Keith Moon, which is rather ironic because the latter, who loved the early BBs and insisted that the Who cover Jan & Dean's "Bucket T," turned out to not much like the band's post-PS direction.)

He also tells what Brian said in '63 when Kim asked him the secret to his success.  The whole talk is much more interesting than a lot of those interviews of Kim's when the person talking to him didn't know much about his career beyond the Runaways and Alley Oop.

http://ugly-things.com/kim-fowley-sins-secrets-of-the-silver-sixties/

Like Guitarfool, I also want to chime in thanking you for that link. That has to be the most funny interview I've ever read. Hands down! I laughed out loud several times. Who knows how much of it is true, but if nothing else, Kim really was a great storyteller. 

His passing prompted me to post on my blog about one of his more obscure recordings, - one that was produced by Phil Spector no less. And as you can imagine, the sh-- really hit the fan when those two madmen hit the studio. All very entertaining as relayed by Fowley...

www.cuecastanets.wordpress.com

Note: I moved this to the main forum because of his many connections to the Beach Boys through Bruce Johnston, songs he recorded or produced or was involved with which they covered (like "Papa Ooo Mow Mow" and "Alley Oop"), and just in general. His first gig as a manager was working with Bruce's band The Sleepwalkers.

Definitely on-topic. 

Didn't the Sleepwalkers also include Sandy Nelson and, occasionally, Phil Spector? The mind boggles at the thought of the many projects and hustles this guy was involved in.

One of my favorites is 'Girl on the Beach', a beautiful one-off single with Rick Henn which seems fitting to post now that there's been much discussion of 'Soulful Old Man Sunshine.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMxdXCL_hqQ

RIP

Yet, I think it was Jack who crystallized the actual sound of Spector's Wall. Others could write charts to exploit it, or even to copy it, but it was Jack's arrangements along with the other pieces of the puzzle that just *nailed* it. I don't base this on anything but opinion, but I think the fact that Jack and Phil were both characters who marched to their own drummer made the "Wall" as edgy as it was.

Thanks for elaborating with your very well-written post, Guitarfool. And your opinion is certainly as valid as mine. Maybe more so since I'm not a musician and therefore probably can't pick up on some of the subtle differences between Nitzsche's arrangements and those of other arrangers.

I took guitarfool to mean that Jack was essential in developing the sound, therefore without him there would be no wall.  I do not think he was saying that Phil could not work without Jack and create the same sound.

EoL

Yeah, that occured to me as well but even if that's what he meant, I am of the opnion that Phil could probably have achieved that same Wall of sound, or somthing very, very close to it, with some other arranger.

Not to take anything away from Jack Nitzsche; he was brilliant and the one who introduced Phil to the Wrecking Crew but I tend to think Phil would have found them or someone equally talented anyway, probably aided by another arranger who knew these guys just as well as Jack. Remember; Phil already knew Gold Star inside-out from his days recording there as a Teddy Bear - and on his early productions on the East Coast such as Gene Pitney's 'Every Breath I Take' or the early Crystals cuts, he was already starting to develop a production philosophy that was dependent of a large group of musicians.

I think it would have happened even without Jack onboard...

Great thread! I'll add more when I'm not as limited with time...but I want to mention some brief points to consider, or restate, etc.

(...)

Besides the apprenticeship Spector had with those two giants of writing and production in the 50's, as mentioned he also had Jack Nitzsche to do the arrangements. Without Jack, there is no "Wall".

Thanks for chiming in with some good points, Guitarfool. I'm not sure I agree with this opinion, though. Care to elaborate? Phil also did some great, monstrous stuff with other arrangers, for instance 'Lovin' Feeling' with Gene Page arranging, the ear-crunching version of 'I Wonder' by the Crystals with Arnold Goland by his side and lest not forget Perry Botkin Jr coming onboard as arranger later on. In the 70s Nino Tempo often had the arranging gig as well. I don't think you really can tell the difference between the various tracks - the wall is there allright, in full effect, no matter which arranger is onboard.

For those who haven't heard the Crystals take of 'I Wonder', check this out. It was only out in England, never in the US. And it's not even included on the Back to Mono box. I still prefer the Ronettes version, but this one is also great. Although almost a little frightening with its extreme sonic assault. More like a 'sledgehammer of sound' than a wall....  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r0K9feMFQQ

A couple of additions to/mild disagreements with various previous posts.

(...)

C) Though Spector wasn't a "performer" or front man per se, as pointed out above, all evidence points to that being more due to his unattractive looks and lack of star quality, than to any lack of ability to perform. The Tearing Down the Wall of Sound biography is full of anecdotes of him entertaining people brilliantly at private events as a solo performer. He was also, according to many, a brilliant guitarist (he played lead, for instance on "On Broadway"), who could've easily made a good living as a session guitarist had he not become a producer, and a good piano player as well.

(...)

E) (...) Brian's problem might be that he judges himself by the wrong terms. He never equaled Spector at doing Spector, but he took a turn and became totally original. He became the greatest Brian Wilson in the world and did varieties of music Spector could never do.

F) As for "River Deep Mountain High," I don't think the production is the problem; the song is. If it had been a better song it would have shone through the bombastic production and merited it. I don't think the production ruined the song, the song just wasn't worthy of it.

Thank you for the kind words about my blog, Jesse. Glad you liked it. You have some good points in your post I'd like to add to.

C) Spector could definately have made a pretty decent performer had he wished to pursue that direction. Among hardcore Spector collectors there are a few unreleased cuts of his singing on half-baked productions. There's a great song called 'Pretty Girl', where he's especially good. His voice would probably have worked best on softer, less elaborate productions and that's probably why he didn't pursue that career as it would have meant he would have had to abandon his famous sound. Here are two examples of how he sounded - Spector singing, very heartfelt in my opinion, 'Spanish Harlem' alone with his guitar and then the unreleased Down at TJs which was used as a theme for a Music TV Special. Here I think his voice can't really live up to the gigantic track. But listen to that crazy production! Brilliant!

Spanish Harlem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LUdPaFRB60

Down at TJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6NqW3RtVZI

E) Really well put. I agree 100% - man, you just put into two sentences what I was trying to say with my lenghthy blog post. 

F) Again, I agree. The production is great but the song just can't cut it. I've never been that keen on it. If anything, 'I'll Never Need More than This' from the same songwriting session with Ellie Greenwich and Jeff Barry is much better - he should have released that one instead of 'River Deep'. Great song and monster production. I love Tina's growl just before the solo section. I can only find the stereo version on YouTube, - Phil would NOT approve. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsZh_W9BV6E

I find Brian's production/arrangement techniques quite distinct from Spector's. Brian is transparent, Spector is opaque -- a window of sound as opposed to a wall.

I'm not as familiar with Nitzsche's early work. His 1967-68 work with Neil Young, with which I am more familiar, strikes me also as being quite different from Spector's Wall of Sound -- tremulous and ruminative. How would you define Spector's effects? Energetic? Exhilarating? Anyway, objective where Brian and Nitzche are subjective. I get the impression that Phil didn't spend a lot of time in self-reflection.

A window of sound - that's a nice description. Brian's overall sound definately gave more room to breathe in than Spector's and overall had a much lighter, nuanced touch - even on the songs where he seemed to specifically aim for a Wall of Sound.

It has of course a lot to do with the acoustics of Gold Star Studios and its famed echo chambers. That rumble and mushiness when a full band recorded there was unique and a key component of Spector's sound and succes - and I guess that's also why guys like Nitzsche or Jerry Riopelle were able to record songs there which were just as powerful and otherwordly-sounding as Spector's best work imho.

Personally, I think Spector's approach covered all ends of the spectrum - some of his songs I find exhilarating such as Da Doo Ron Ron or Fine Fine Boy, others heartbreakingly and gripping like 'Lovin' Feeling' or 'Wish I Never Saw the Sunshine'. But that increasingly cavernous, gargantuan sound was what ran through it all and eventually became his downfall, I guess. I think it did make him put himself in a corner - if all your releases get bigger and more monstrous, and you are known for that sound, do you dare go back and scale down your approach?

Spector certainly didn't, at least during the 60s, and that was his mistake. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that he craved the attention and notorioty (which I must say he's gotten due to recent, sad events!) He wasn't a performer himself and according to rumours barely earned his co-writing credits on songs, so that production aproach would have been his best bet at continously tooting his horn in the music business.

You should definately check out Nitzsche's early work. There are great productions to be found and he was more versatile than Spector in terms of the kind of genres he recorded. I have a blog post about all this:

https://cuecastanets.wordpress.com/2014/12/13/would-be-spectors-3-jack-nitzsche/

I'm a big fan of the Wall of Sound and started a blog about Phil Spector's productions and similar music some months ago. My most recent post deals with the influence Spector's sound had on Brian in the 60s and the difference between their respective work. You can check it out here:

https://cuecastanets.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/would-be-spectors-4-brian-wilson/

Writing that post got me thinking;

... which direction do you think Brian's musical growth would have taken during the early to mid-60s if he hadn't been enamored by Spector's stuff?

Do you think his respect for, say, the Beatles would have shone through much more clearly in his own work? For instance resulting in more Beatles-esque songs like Girl Don't Tell Me? You also often hear about his admiration for Burt Bacharach, but aside from Guess I'm Dumb and the short cover of Walk On By I have a hard time picking that up from his songs back then. Maybe that influence would have been much more pronounced without Spector's shadow looming over him.

It's all speculation of course but interesting to think about nevertheless.

I've always been intrigued by the relationship, or lack thereof, between these two musical giants. It's amazing that they were working almost alongside each other at the same time in the same city with the same musicians. I guess it was inevitable that Brian would feel inspired by what he saw and heard from Spector...

Yeah, one thing is LaLa's vocal performance. But even better is Paul Shaffer's faithful recreation of the wall of sound. I wish he'd take that concept on the road somehow...

I've had some time off work recently and have started a blog about the Wall of Sound; not just the music of Phil Spector but productions old and new that follow in his footsteps.

https://cuecastanets.wordpress.com

There's already a bunch of blog posts up so if anyone here is interested, please do stop by and check it out.

Some of the topics include write-ups on producers from the 60s trying to outdo Spector (and obviously, I'll write about Brian along the way), Gold Star Studios, Philles rarities, Brill Building stuff and a particular geeky obsession of mine, - tracking down songs from the last 10 years or so that try to emulate the Wall of Sound.

Very sad to hear this. 'Mouth Music' is a great album.

I've always had a soft spot for 'Frisbee' in particular. I Wonder how many Frisbee songs are out there? Can't be many!

RIP - Thank you for the music, Chris...

It's been some time since I've checked in here, so hadn't seen this before.

You're really pregressing with each release, Mike! I like the Loose party-atmosphere on On my Own. And as Rab commented, the guitar-sound on that one is really good.

I agree that Davi is the stand-out here. Really, REALLY catchy and one that suits your voice better than some of the other songs.

The groove on Living in 8 Bits is cool! And fun theme for a song - I was transported back to my teenage days playing Nintendo! :-) But I have to agree with some of the other posters on here saying that most of these songs would benefit from a stronger, more distinctive vocalist. It's not meant as a putdown at all. You are absolutely really, really talented but I Down think you'll realise the full potential with your songs if you insist on singing them all yourself. Some of them fit your voice quite well, like I Don't Understand (great song aswell by the way), but the rockier numbers put too much of a strain on your voice and it shows. Just my two cents and only meant as friendly advice as I'd love to see you get succes with your talent.

My band (Surf School Dropouts) is currently in the process of wrapping up our second album. Our debut came out in 2012 as a digital download and on vinyl in 2013. Since then we've been busy writing new songs.

Yesterday we were listening to some isolated backing vocals for one of our new songs, 'Should Have Known Better' - here's a snippet. I think this four-part harmony turned out really well:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=904184739606382&set=vb.203351939689669&type=2&theater

Let me join the deserved praise here. Really cool song! Lovely chord changes. I also really like the warm-sounding reverb on your vocal.

This song just begs for being played while driving into the sunset on a US roadtrip! 

Well, keep us updated. I've really liked what I've heard so far!

[I've posted here, which she monitors, requesting the supporting documentation be posted, or shown to someone. All she needs to do to make me look a complete tool, and re-rewrite BB history by proving her claim is to comply. Work of minutes, if not seconds. Then I unreservedly apologise, and we move on.

How do you know she monitors the forum?

3. Low - "Just Like Christmas" (1999)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nhbv74Hz54
Blissful and heavenly indie pop christmas tune and surprisingly upbeat for Low.

Good call. That one has been a permanent fixture of my festive playlist since discovering it in the early 00s. It's so beautiful!

Since starting this topic last year my band has recorded a Christmas song which I guess must qualify as obscure. We went for the no-holds-barred Phil Spector Wall of Sound approach on this one:

Surf School Dropouts - Another Christmas with You
https://surfschooldropouts.bandcamp.com/album/another-christmas-with-you-single

And believable beards, please!

Man, 'Believable Beards, Please!' - that's the best potential band name I've come across in ages. 

Saw the Mike & Bruce-fronted touring Beach Boys tonight with the other guys in my band, Surf School Dropouts.

As a kind of warm-up we recorded this video of us covering 'Catch a Wave' live in our rehearsal space last week 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cykTqQfsWxM

The show was great! Afterwards we got to talk to Mike Love for a while. There's  a photo here of him and the Dropouts on our Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/surfschooldropouts/photos/pcb.891403814217808/891403460884510/?type=1&theater

This should really interest you, guitarfool. 

http://www.stereogum.com/1716910/watch-new-radicals-gregg-alexander-perform-live-for-the-first-time-in-over-15-years/video/

I wonder if there will ever be a chance for a second New Radicals record, no touring or promotion, just another album...

In this day and age, Gregg could definately go about releasing something by himself way easier than when the first New Radicals album came out. He should just record an album in his home studio and get it out on itunes, Spotify, Bandcamp etc and let it live it's own life. I'll bet he could get reasonable sales out of it based on the New Radicals name alone once word spread.

He wouldn't even have to write new songs. A cool scenario would be for him to dust off some of the songs he has written for others through the years, possibly re-record them in order to get a more guitar-based, organic New Radicals sound and of course put his own distinctive vocals down. If he did that I think the end result would be one of the greatest pop-rock albums of all time with all-killer songs.

And I'm sorry for not catching the post from July earlier, and not replying to it. Awesome links, good songs! Now I have to seek out the film too.

No worries. Glad you noticed the posts later on. You really should check out the movie. I saw it on it's last day of screening in Danish Cinemas a few weeks ago and was quite impressed. It definately exceeded my expectations, since I walked in thinking it was basically just a fluff romantic comedy-type of thing. It's way more substantial than that.

Personally, I find the interview quite interesting in a meta-sort of way. I think it's pretty clear that Gregg plays upon the image as a super-cool 'f.... the industry' type lone rider / maverick that he's often been portrayed as after shutting the Radicals down. And as much truth as there is in that assertion, I can't help but thinking some of his views and claims in this interview contradicts a lot of the 'gun for hire' songwriting / production work he's been involved in ever since the Radicals. I mean, aren't acts like Boyzone, Enrique Iglesias, S Club 7, Ronan Keating etc quite good examples of what he seemingly doesn't like about the development of the music industry - at least the way it comes across in this interview? As I've stated before, that contraditction doesn't bother me one bit at all. I just find it stragely amusing.  Basically, I view Gregg's music the same way as I do Phil Spector's - it's his sound and feel that draws me in. Who ever sings on these songs, manufactured pop star or not, matters little,.... as long as they sing well enough to do the songs justice.  

.... which brings me to what I've just discovered must be Gregg's most recent effort. Writing a single for British group the Struts. Looking at this horrible video with all the Mick Jagger-wannabe posturing would seem to really be a case of signing a band based on their retro good looks more than the fact that they're a self-contained unit writing original songs. Rock for 1-Direction fans, anyone?   But seriously, look beyond all that and just LISTEN to this song. It's about as great and catchy a power pop song as I've ever heard! Gregg, oh Gregg... You sure have the golden touch!

The Struts - Put Your Money on Me (issued as a single in July)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GuUbziASwE

It's not a good video really... it's like they put 100 vines or instagram pics together. I know they tried to seduce the young audience, but... they did it all wrong. It's annoying, superficial and very confusing... all this different-eras guys meet in a house and they have a bunch of old people locked up (doing what?) in a garage?

Jack Rieley... time has proved you right...

To each his own. I really like it and the good-times vibe coming off all those different sequences. To me the ending falls completey flat though with that cheesy garage scene. You can tell right away that the scene with the boys has been filmed with lesser equipment and a substantial change in Picture quality as a result. To me it just comes across as a case of "oh well, I guess we can't avoid having these oldsters somewhere in the video. Quickly, put 'em in the garage and film them for a few seconds with this shoddy video recorder. That'll do..."