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680598 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 10:12:33 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Don Was Talks Brian Wilson, NPP, IJWMFTT Film - New Interview w. Photo on: May 19, 2016, 01:54:19 PM
That clip of Brian and Van Dyke at the piano playing/singing Orange Crate Art is one of my favourite things. I'd have liked to have heard the whole album played like that.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: My Ultimate Theory about Smile and the Beach Boys on: May 19, 2016, 12:29:17 AM
I for one think Smile is the greatest collection of music ever put together in pop music! And no one is paying me to say that! I'm not even Brian's friend! But it is my real opinion on the matter!

Hey, I was gonna say that. Been listening to Smile since about 1987. It still completely blows my mind and one of the many things I like about it are how it's led to reading about American history, novels, books, films, getting into Charles Ives, Orson Welles, other great artists unfinished projects.....it's the gift that keeps on giving.

Fishmonk's entitled to his opinion but what we really need right now is the Great Shape/My Children acetate and someone (Al/Darian ?)  to bug Brian about that Do You Like Worms melody line heard on the Smile box.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson 2016 Tour Thread (Pet Sounds 50th Anniversary Tour) on: May 18, 2016, 03:27:04 AM
wish I could be at Cardiff but could only manage Bristol. I will just repeat that i was pretty surprised by the quality of Brian's vocals....in a good way. Been seeing him since the Paul Simon tour but from the minute he started Heroes I turned to my friend and said woah he's on it tonight. Maybe it's because i haven't seen him for a few years now, but i think that show was the best i've heard him and i've been to about 30 shows. I'm still buzzing. Wish I could go to a Brian Wilson concert every day !
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson 2016 Tour Thread (Pet Sounds 50th Anniversary Tour) on: May 15, 2016, 11:53:19 PM
In addition to my post gig enthusiastic review I should mention that Darian wasn't there last night. Can't help with setlist but they did do Wake The World which was nice to hear and the last 3 numbers of the first half were Wild Honey / Funky Pretty / Sail On Sailor sung by Blondie.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bristol - Colston Hall Sunday 15th May - Fans Pre Meet, Drinks food and a laugh on: May 15, 2016, 05:01:53 PM
I went with a party of 15. That's was us dancing at the front at the end. My friends who'd never seen Brian before thought it was f-ing brilliant. I've only seen him about 30 times ! Loved it. I was very surprised by the quality of Brian's singing. He was much better than I remembered him being. I first saw him in the usa on the Paul Simon tour and it's always noticable how Jeff looked after him. He looked a lot less "frightened" than i ever remember. Seemed to be in a good place. Yes there weren't many of the "art" numbers apart from Pet Sounds and no Darian but I had a fing great time and thought it was fing brilliant.
I took my kids age 11 and 13. After Al's first solo vocal my 13 year old grabbed my shirt and said "wow that guy can really sing".
If the rest of the UK shows are as good you'll have a great time. I wish I was going again tomorrow but now that I don't live in London I can't go every night at the Festival Hall.
I'll give it a 9.9 out of ten with the occasion 11. I can't really express how much I loved it and sitting in row D at the front was a treat.
Have to mention Nicky Wonder - what a guy and Probyn too but everyone in the band rules. Fantastic.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Yes we love Pet Sounds, but 2017 will be the 40th anniversary of Love You!! :O on: May 03, 2016, 02:17:07 PM
I want him to teach Al the vocal line for Do You Like Worms we heard on the Smile box with all the lyrics (Having returned / Once upon / Waving etc.) and do Heroes with Great Shape and Barnyard. Actually, a final Smile tour with Al and the songs presented as separate tracks would be great. As it is, I'm seriously looking forward to Colston Hall in just over a week.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's musical arrangement inspirations for (primarily) Pet Sounds and Smile on: April 28, 2016, 07:23:27 AM
Heroes and Villains sounds far more like Save The Last Dance For Me by Ike and Tina Turner than RDMH. In fact it's , well extremely close.
The Indian noises from Worms are a lift from Running Bear by Johnny Preston.
Many of the arrangement ideas (not executions) are quite Charles Ives. Ives wrote many pieces about Americana and you can "see" the things the music was about. Two examples being Halloween (see Mrs O'Leary's Cow) and The Hook, The Gong and The Ladder. Central Park In The Dark is another classic visual piece of his.
If you cross Ives with Carl Stalling's cartoon music and mixed in with The Four Freshman and Spector on acid you get pretty close to Smile.
I don't know how familiar Brian was with Ives work but I can well imagine Van Dyke was at least aware of him....that whole approach of music actually sounding like what it's about is very Ives - the breezy marimba on Wind Chimes, the cello run and fuzz bass representing the train and the plink plink of the pickaxes on the railroad, jewellry percussion, babies wah wah on Child IFOTM etc..
I cannot help thinking that Van Dyke had some influence on this as it did not really occur again after Smile with notable exceptions including Diamond Head. I wish Van Dyke had had some decent input into the box set. I imagine he could still respond with interesting information if asked the right questions.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Would Guess I’m Dumb have been a BB song if Glen had stayed in the band? on: April 26, 2016, 08:18:52 AM
While we're on the subject, do we know for sure that Brian never recorded a lead vocal on this tune?  I would pay big $$$ to hear that.

I'll chip in ! Would love to hear Brian singing it. Probably long gone though
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson Live in Japan on: April 13, 2016, 04:35:50 AM
Really glad the show was good (well, much better than that) for you. I've got 4th row tickets for Bristol in May and I've persuaded about 15 friends along so I'm really hoping it'll be special. The other 30 shows I've been to were !
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The initial structure of Heroes and Villains on: January 22, 2016, 09:36:11 AM
Confusingly I think it means overdub in Brian's case.
Elsewhere I think it means a section to be inserted into an existing piece.
I'd get better minds to confirm or deny that.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The initial structure of Heroes and Villains on: January 15, 2016, 11:59:22 PM
Quote
Regarding part 1 and part 2 - didn't Vosse say BW had recorded it but not edited it together ?

Is this the quote you're referring to?

"[ S ]o at that point they decided to concentrate on the single, "Heroes and Villains" - of which there must have been a dozen versions. The best version I heard, which was never completed, but at least I could see the form of it, was an A side B side version lasting about six minutes. It was a beautifully structured work; and Van Dyke was still very involved.'
[Fusion, 1969]

Yep, that's the one and crikey would I like to hear that ! I wonder if that was the one that Mike Love played for a journalist or whether there were 2 "long" versions.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The initial structure of Heroes and Villains on: January 15, 2016, 12:28:37 PM
I'm in agreement with Cam on this Pt 1 Pt 2 issue.
Some additional points which are obviously my opinion rather than hard fact.

Tag to part 1 - do we know what the designated part 1 was at this time - one of BW problems was where to go after the first two verses. Were these part 1 and did they end with the accapella verse (like Cantina version) or one of the vocal links ?
In terms of missing tapes we know that there are missing tapes - December 19th sessions (which was largely strings iirc) could be key to putting bits together.
On the other hand it might not. The transition to part 3 from December is highly problematic as is where to go after part 3. It's in a funny key isn't it ??
October 17th is still amystery, there is some suggestion it might have been Veg Cornucopia rather than Great Shape. Maybe it was Great Shape and the acetate version of My Children, we just don't know.
Didn't Alan or Mark say on this board that there are several Heroes tape boxes with no tape ? aarrgghh.
There are some tapes we simply haven't heard and that applies to the whole Smile period.
Re the Durrie acetate -according to the person who heard and described it,  it has a different Great Shape backing  we haven't heard. I don't see why the My Children were raised with a harpsichord backing is a problem - that could have been done at any number of sessions October to December and then Brian could have gone back to the idea for the single.
My Children appears in both the Cantina and final single, along with verse 1 and 2 it occurs in some shape or form in both versions. So does an accapella verse.
The Great Shape Heroes / 3 minute musical comedy could consist of Verse 1, 2, Great Shape, My Children, Accapella verse, Barnyard or verse 1 verse 2, accapella. great shape, my children, barnyard which could pan out at xlose to 3 minutes depending on the length of great shape and barnyard.
Regarding part 1 and part 2 - didn't Vosse say BW had recorded it but not edited it together ?
I have a British demonstration copy of Like A Rolling Stone by Dylan - same master number both sides. Agree with Cam that we can't use the Dylan single as a guide.
That January 3rd reel is highly problematic - 3 different versions of Ah = one ending on c sharp, one quicker ending on the A flat and one ending on a hummed F7. Was he gonna use that vocal riff 3 times in the same song ?
I could go on....
I would love it if Alan and Mark could post pictures of all the Heroes tape boxes / notations. Not sure it would help our quest but it would be something to drool over.
I wonder how hard the band looked through their personal archives and storage facilities for tape reels and acetates, didn't Durrie find the auctioned acetates after the box was issued? they were a second batch weren't they ? she did also say that she should have all the video tapes somewhere that were shot with the video camera given to Brian.
At the end of the day it's fun to speculate. I wish Brian and Van had recorded home demos (and kept them). I so badly want there to be an answer to all these Smile questions but after 30 years of listening to, playing with the recorded pieces and recording my own versions I fear we are in Magnificent Ambersons territory. Unless somewhere at Capitol or in The Beach Boys archive there are a pile of tapes in the wrong boxes or as yet unplayed but i think Alan said they'd now been through everything.
and remember , someone said BW had a finished Heroes, played it to someone who said it wasn't as good as Good Vibrations and BW then wiped it.
aarrgghhh.

 
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 2016 Wish List on: January 13, 2016, 09:35:56 AM
The sudden discovery of all the missing Smile tapes and Van Dyke finding an old notebook and tape reel with all the missing lyrics and Brian's sung demos for Look, Holidays, Child Is The Father Of The Man, Do You Like Worms, the original Heroes, a couple more unheard versions of Heroes and The Elements.
Pictures of all the notations on the Smile tape boxes/ session sheets.
Brian mentioned in the Q & A that his Baldwin organ was in storage somewhere....have they had a good look in "that place" for anything cool and Smile related.
oh and the Good Vibrations multi track would be a bonus. I'm assuming Mark and Alan checked Iron Mountain or whatever that mysterious facility is called.
Other than that, a complete Dylan World Tour box and Revolver super deluxe - the former is likely, the latter apparently less likely than my Beach Boys wish list.
If none of these are possible, i'm desperate to hear those Durrie Parks acetates. Did she find any of the video people mentioned ?
 
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1965 archives on: December 11, 2015, 11:34:00 AM
Terrific news re Chicago. If I hadn't bought Dylan's massive Cutting Edge set I'd download it straight away. Currently serving a new music ban.
Team Dylan and Team Beach Boys are leading the way as far as archival releases are concerned. Many thanks to Mark, Alan et al.
Plus I've said it before but man am I looking forward to next year - Dylan World Tour 66, more Smile (?) I'm In Great Shape acetate (?), Revolver - The Complete Sessions.
OK, I lost my mind after mentioning the I'm In Great Shape acetate.
Has In The Back Of My Mind backing track been issued officially yet - I can't remember. For sure that's one of the finest backing tracks Brian ever made.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Holy… on: November 25, 2015, 04:45:08 PM
zoinks and double zoinks !!
not quite as exciting as the I'm In Great Shape/my children were raised acetate though. 
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys version of Beatles 1+...What would you want on it? on: November 11, 2015, 03:14:12 PM
Well I'd hope that some of the bad errors that "crept into"  The Beatles set would not pass Alan and Mark by.
Always crap to have to moan when something like this has been put together but the "pitch corrected" Please Please Me has caused some talking, the wrong edit outro of 8 Days A week that's also out of time and the hair ! There are some other really bad clunkers which make you smack you're head against the wall and wonder wtf they're doing. Alongside some super spiffing stuff !
So I guess I'm saying as long as it's carefully put together then I don't mind. Can't say I have much interest in anything post-Holland though.
 
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Inside Pop Reels on: November 06, 2015, 01:26:24 AM
This remains the holy grail of Beach Boys history as far as i'm concerned. Unless Brian and Van Dyke made composing demos at home. Re-reading it for the umpteenth time and just trying to imagine all those missing bits, aarrghhh.
It hasn't been confirmed destroyed has it ?  I think the last news was trail cold . Some room for optimism at least. Maybe as digitisation of film archives etc.. continues  this or the sound reels (were they separate?) will surface one day.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BW loves The Jesus and Mary Chain!! on: October 02, 2015, 01:30:15 AM
Wonder what he'd make of their version of Vega-Table Man.
I'd like Brian to take a more Jesus and Mary Chain/My Bloody Valentine approach. Can't see that happening though but imagine how even more awesome Loveless would be with Smile-style vocals.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Dylan's New Archive Release - The Cutting Edge on: September 25, 2015, 03:26:34 PM
In a previous thread i talked about future copyright-buster sets. Well Dylan's is as amazing as speculated , a release featuring every single studio recording from 1965 and 1966. Well i could moan about the fact that the World Tour 66 tapes aren't included but i'd be a complete ass because this has to be one of the finest archival releases of all-time. In terms of boldness it is the finest. I can think of only one other American pop/rock act that could match Bob's output creatively at that time and who would deserve similar attention. Over to you Mark and Alan.  An everything else from 1965/6/7 box would be super awesome if you're not too busy.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Here's A Beatles project that one could only wish the BBs would emulate on: September 18, 2015, 02:47:16 AM
It's taken The Beatles 50 years to get this together (pretty pathetic in my opinion) and there are 3 (yes 3) versions of Hello Goodbye on this Fab set. That's at least 2 too many and i count myself a pretty serious Beatle-head.
It's highly doubtful that there's much that hardcore fans of the band haven't already got on bootleg dvd.

Not to stray off topic, but if it’s “pathetic” that the Beatles took this long to get such a set out, I can’t see how it would be disagreeable, after all this time an expense, to provide all three versions of “Hello Goodbye.” 

There are 4 versions iirc. I'd just rather have 5 Paperback Writers or Rains. Hello Goodbye drives me mad and they look pretty bored in it.
There's plenty of other stuff for them to choose from.  All the same, i'm glad Crapple have finally done something positive and i'm really looking forward to it.  I wish they'd take a good hard look at what's been done by Dylan and The Beach Boys in terms of new old audio releases. There is enough material still left for some killer sets should they choose to do it. Problem is, The Beatles are always aimed at the general public while other acts (like Bob and The Beach Boys) realise there's a whole other bunch of obsessive nuts who are genuinely interested in their tape vaults. If the rumours concerning Dylan's end of year release are true, we're looking at something to rival The Smile Sessions box in terms of desirabilty and he's only fairly recently put out the Complete Basement Tapes.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Here's A Beatles project that one could only wish the BBs would emulate on: September 17, 2015, 03:47:24 AM
I have to say that as AGD pointed out, the cost of such a dvd/blu-ray would be enormous and the chances of a worthwhile return very small.
I understand Bruce Welch of The Shadows was trying to put together something like this for The Shadows and had to give up because of the expense involved.
To give an example from my own personal experience, i am involved in a cd project of a 1950s/60s UK act and located a short piece of film (about 50 seconds long), black and white silent. The cost of using this film with the proper clearance was basically £1000.
Try putting a DVD together factoring in that kind of basic cost. That doesn't include any payment for myself for the two or so years I spent trying to find some film of this particular artist in various worldwide archives which included dozens and dozens of hours scouring every possible UK tv guide/music paper from 1959 to 1967. I'm still working on this project and when the time comes, with the help of a handful of other enthusiasts we are gonna pay for that footage out of our own pockets. The chances of getting any of this money back is likely to be substantially less than zero and on top of that we have to pay a European radio archive for a live broadcast tape from the 60s.
As a business proposition this is clearly a non-starter.
I urge you to take a couple of minutes out to play Guess I'm Dumb for everyone who embarks on this kind of idiocy !
It's taken The Beatles 50 years to get this together (pretty pathetic in my opinion) and there are 3 (yes 3) versions of Hello Goodbye on this Fab set. That's at least 2 too many and i count myself a pretty serious Beatle-head.
It's highly doubtful that there's much that hardcore fans of the band haven't already got on bootleg dvd.
To be honest, the only way to go for this kind of set for other artists is the bootleg route. Otherwise this stuff will stay in the archives until we're all dead and no-one else is interested. Not even The Rolling Stones have produced an all-encompassing 60's TV/Promo set and they could expect pretty good sales.   
Having said all that, yes it would be great if The Beach Boys could produce a good DVD/Blu-Ray set.
I'm grateful for the copyright buster download sets they and Dylan's people have put out the last couple of years. They lead the way on that. Apple are left looking clueless as regards The Beatles audio legacy. We should all be very grateful to Mark L., Alan Boyd et al.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: There's No Other (Like My Baby) on: September 08, 2015, 02:53:33 AM
Yep it's a great one. Insanely gorgeous indeed.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Forthcoming-ish Archival Releases ? on: July 28, 2015, 04:21:45 PM
While Beatle fans hotly anticipate a 50th anniversary Rubber Soul ball point pen and tea-cup, are we all looking forward to the end of year archival release from the team ? They'd be working on this kind of thing as I speak wouldn't they ?
Dylan fans are already being teased with a possible 18/19 cd set (not enough in my opinion). Will team Beach Boy (Mark and Alan) deliver the goods this year and next ? Will we hear that Great Shape acetate and other Durry Parks goodies ? Brian's Child edit ? More from Jasper Dailley (my kids say YES they love Teeter Totter Love nearly as much as Vega-Tables though i've told them to wait till 2017). Anyone wanna indulge in rampant speculation - AGD ?
I do hope the guys continue with some (FLAC/Lossless) goodies at the end of the year. While it's never enough, i feel that Dylan's team and The Beach Boys crew are leading the way for hard-core fans. Both "teams" have delivered some outstanding stuff the last 2 years unlike Moptop Corp. 1966 produced arguably the finest music of any year pop wise. Are we in for a treat with our "prelude to 1966" sets ? There's still plenty of fabulous unreleased 65 Beach Boys stuff is there not ?
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about how weird it is that Dennis banged his cousin? on: July 28, 2015, 04:04:54 PM
My sisters in law are pretty hot. My cousins are butt-ugly martians. Should i continue or quit posting while drunk ?
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Discussion: How will this news impact future BB venues? on: July 28, 2015, 03:39:47 PM
Stephen , it's in the Daily Express - they believe in witch burning. I wouldn't worry much about it unless Mike's Beach Boys are gonna play Mrs O'Leary's Cow which could somehow start those fires mystically and have an adverse effect on Brian's well-being. Seriously though, you'd be better off believing a story in the Onion.
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