I reckon your the best Andrew!!!

That makes two, then. 

Well three actually Em thinks your pretty dosh garn the best as well!!

I reckon your the best Andrew!!!

I wonder what Fishmonk's take is on this??

Has anyone ever figured out the origins of this "SMiLE" t-shirt as worn by actress Autumn Reeser in this photoshoot?

http://autumn-reeser.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=105&pid=2941#top_display_media

What t-shirt??

they are not my size!

[In my personal opinion]

In my personal opinion, Yup.

Fixed that for you.

No need. I didn't put "IMO" because it wasn't. Someone asked a question, I gave an factual reply, not an opinion.

I have great saying about this!!! "Everyone is entitled to an opinion, some opinion's are more educated than others. And based on the subject we are discussing and your knowledge and education on said subject I respect do/do not respect your opinion". basically you just select "do" or "do not". So 99% of what AGD says I "do" and 99% of what Fishmonk says I "do not"!!!

20/20 was the weakest album they did since All Summer Long. Nearest Faraway Place stinks, the smile tracks don't work, Brian's version of Cottonfields is turgid, Bluebirds is passable but Mike was the wrong choice for the lead. All I Want to Do and Never Learn Not To Love are forgettable, and along with Got To Know the Woman betray a clear post-White Album Beatles influence that I don't think he carried very well.
Be With Me and I Can Hear Music are the really good tracks on 20/20.
I think Do It Again should have been kept a single, and Time to Get Alone and I Went To Sleep are too Brian-y and sound more at home on other projects.

20/20 is where the band shoots off on their own, out of Brian's shadow, but it's loaded down with a bunch of random stuff that makes it sound like it was slapped together at the last minute from whatever was available. It's all over the place, full of decent songs that don't really work in tandem for any purpose and the album as a result feels really slipshod and unfocused. In this case I think the Beach Boy's would've been helped by NOT releasing an album, just cooling their jets, taking the time to assemble some better material, and maybe asserting themselves with a few singles and/or an ep.

Living, breating proof the negative effects of drugs!!

Even better than what I thought it was going to be. similar to that Simon and Garfunkel tune..

Its much to late for that!! well here in Australia anyway

BEcause  the day is almost over? or because you've already had your fill of twits in all the other threads?

Both!!! I wonder if thats what fishmonk and Phil Cohen have been doing for the last month..

Its much to late for that!! well here in Australia anyway

This is getting very very frustrating

Is LSD a powerful drug? It certainly is one of the most potent. Have some people experienced psychological complications? Yes. Has it caused some people to do stupid things resulting in injury or death? Probably. But put that in perspective, how many people die each year due to incidents related to alcohol? The World Health Organization has reported that 4% of all deaths each year WORLDWIDE involved alcohol. And what about the deaths from lung cancer. What about the 100,000 Americans that die each year as a result of prescription drug side effects? How many die each year due to LSD related incidents? According to the Drug Abuse Warning Network, which tracks mentions of drugs in coroner's reports, it was 5 in 1999, but there hasn't been one since 2004 as far as I can see.

I'm pretty sure there are less LSD users than alcohol addicts (because it's illegal, thus harder to find), so the whole above paragraph is pointless. What would be interesting is the percentage of LSD users who die because of their drug use, the percentage of heavy drinkers who die because of their addiction, and so on... In short, data that's almost impossible to obtain.

Like Murry, I have a thousand words to say, but I'll stop there because this is sandbox material.

Yeah i agree and I feel semi responsible, Fishmonk is pro drugs.. I agree with AGD and you all who believe this was a real bad move for Brian. I think it is bad for everbody. There is clear evidence that LSD use can cause people to read way to much into lyrics that were clearly written whilst under the influence of drugs..

FFS!!
Do your own research!! But here is a little quick concise run down..
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/lsd/f/lsd_faq04.htm

What? You say that "in recent years" new research has been done on the effect of "chemicals" on the brain. I ask for the source to this, like maybe the peer reviewed paper, or any indication at all really of what "chemicals" you were talking about and what "effects" they had been found to have.
Then you just link me to an about.com page, that itself is a reprint of material from a government run website, and on top of that the site you posted didn't even contain anything that I hadn't already addressed in my post, it just lists HPPD and psychosis as possible ill-effects. Go back and read my previous posts on this.
And then you tell me to "for foder's sake" do my own research.  I did do my own research bro, and about.com pages weren't part of it. It seems your "research" was to google "effects of lsd" and click on the first result.

In short, LSD is a mostly safe drug. Brian Wilson may have been one of the cases where it wasn't so safe, but I've read interviews with him where he says that he had experienced hallucinations associated with his mental disorder before The BB were even formed so to try and pin down blame on either Loren or LSD I think is a waste of time. I certainly don't think Loren is a scumbag/slimeball/jerk or whatever.

I was taking the piss!!

Can we get back on topic..Drugs are bad..real bad.. all of them...

FFS!!
Do your own research!! But here is a little quick concise run down..
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/lsd/f/lsd_faq04.htm

Also note that LSD wasn't illegal at the time Brian was doing it.

I fail to see how the legality means anything in this case 
And I think there are other implications from overdosing than Death. You said "Overdose". What of Paralysis, psychosis or any of a host of other problems that could be brought on by dosing.

Paralysis is an urban myth.
LSD also doesn't "cause" psychosis. Some have likened LSD induced states of consciousness to psychotic states, but their relation is poorly understood. Largely due to the continued prohibition on LSD research. As far as anyone can tell, LSD can only serve as a trigger for preexisting conditions. The onset of Schizophrenia is often caused by stress. LSD is very "stressful" and can therefore activate such conditions. To blame LSD is very unfair though as it doesn't give anyone schizophrenia, and people who experience psychotic breaks as a result of LSD use would likely have experienced them at some point with or without drug use.

The one long term effect of LSD that should be worried about is called HPPD, Hallucination Persisting Perception Disorder. This is sometimes misidentified as a "permanent trip" though that's not what it is. This condition only arises in a small number of users, ~3%.

What studies have been done on long-term effects to health of LSD have shown the dangers are minimal and possibly non-existent.

The point is, LSD is a deceptively safe drug, and I don't think Loren was doing anything wrong giving Brian LSD, certainly nothing that he should be admonished for. Whatever conditions might be blamed on the drug were very likely preexisting.

Sorry to crash the 'Freak Out"... But LSD like other drugs opens the doors to more and more drugs. To generalise, this is the major concern with legalising any drug!!

This is a classic argument, the "gateway drug" theory. This theory has been highly questioned. In reality alcohol or tobacco use usually precedes use of weed or any other drugs, making them bigger "gateway drugs" than any other substance. Personally I think it's little more than a propaganda tool, there may be a correlation between the use of certain drugs, but statistically, there isn't a case for causation.
LSD also does not really even fit in with this theory, that users are left seeking to experience the thrill of that first "high". Brian only had two or three trips in as many years, and LSD trips can be so profound that people often wait long periods before tripping again in order to properly digest what they experienced.

I just don't think you can blame Loren for anything.

There has been alot of research into this recently and also to the damage that the chemicals in the drugs can do to the brain etc etc blah blah
If human nature did not trend towards one experiment leading to another we would still be swinging from tress!!!!!!!

Also note that LSD wasn't illegal at the time Brian was doing it.

I fail to see how the legality means anything in this case  
And I think there are other implications from overdosing than Death. You said "Overdose". What of Paralysis, psychosis or any of a host of other problems that could be brought on by dosing.

Paralysis is an urban myth.
LSD also doesn't "cause" psychosis. Some have likened LSD induced states of consciousness to psychotic states, but their relation is poorly understood. Largely due to the continued prohibition on LSD research. As far as anyone can tell, LSD can only serve as a trigger for preexisting conditions. The onset of Schizophrenia is often caused by stress. LSD is very "stressful" and can therefore activate such conditions. To blame LSD is very unfair though as it doesn't give anyone schizophrenia, and people who experience psychotic breaks as a result of LSD use would likely have experienced them at some point with or without drug use.

The one long term effect of LSD that should be worried about is called HPPD, Hallucination Persisting Perception Disorder. This is sometimes misidentified as a "permanent trip" though that's not what it is. This condition only arises in a small number of users, ~3%.

What studies have been done on long-term effects to health of LSD have shown the dangers are minimal and possibly non-existent.

The point is, LSD is a deceptively safe drug, and I don't think Loren was doing anything wrong giving Brian LSD, certainly nothing that he should be admonished for. Whatever conditions might be blamed on the drug were very likely preexisting.

Sorry to crash the 'Freak Out"... But LSD like other drugs opens the doors to more and more drugs. To generalise, this is the major concern with legalising any drug!!

Yeah it's treated as a joke.. Anyone in Sydney next week I am at the 4 seasons! We can have a few icy cold Hahn Super Dry's or Carlton Premium Dry..

Are  you the guy with the demented look?

I was demented at the 1992 convention. I had stayed up all night after eating a big dinner and knocking back pitchers of Foster's with Stephen McParland and Sean MacCreavy and others from the UK who drank like fish as I was struggling to maintain an upright position in my chair. Really good people and a lotta fun to be around.

Quitityerkillingme!
[/quote]
Fosters!!!! Here in Australia no one drinks that!!!!

The only real conclusion I can draw so far after a couple thousand posts and replies: AGD knows more than we mere mortals do.

I would agree with that......

Bad form to report was told to you in confidence via PM. Perhaps you should edit your post? 

But I DID hold it in confidence until after Capitol made their official announcement.  I didn't reveal it at the point when Capitol still didn't want this to be known.  My point is that AGD is credible.

Whilst you are not!!

This Phil guy really really irks me!!! It is like you have some other agenda!!!!

And Sirhan Sirhan, right?

BTW, George W.Bush sent our troops off to kill how many countless innocent people for his own criminal reasons, and he's free as a bird?

He'd be Manson's cellmate if there was any justice in this world.

100% agreed. Rumsfield and Cheeney can join him!

It's worth noting and I've mentioned it before that Dennis did NOT believe Charlie was behind the murders. The more I look into the case the more I believe this may be true. As you mention drugs can only brainwash a person to a certain point. You simply cannot brainwash a person to become a killer through LSD. The CIA tried this with the MK - Ultra project and failed. Are we to believe a smelly ex con achieved in a little over a year what the US Government's top scientists, with millions of dollars at their disposal over a period of a decade could not?

Unless someone can present me with solid proof otherwise , I'll stick with the theory that the murders were drug burn related. Manson may or may not have had a hand in them - with all the BS that surrounded the case it was never proved conclusively either way. Forget personal opinion on Manson (he was a thief, conman, freeloader, egotistical nutjob etc), it's clear he didnot receive a fair trial.
[/quote]

It worked on Mark Chapman!!

This thread is seriously starting to F%#K with Fishmonk's formula

And the Beatles did not steal Smile they just borrowed it for a while...