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680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 11:01:34 AM
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9826  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 24, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
As great as Good Vibrations is(Probably the closest thing to a perfect 3 minute pop song IMO), to me it seems quite out of place with the rest of the songs on SMilE.
Anyone else agree? Shocked

It seems out of place because the song is as much a part of Smile as it was a part of Smiley Smile where it found a home on an album. Yeah, I agreed to some degree and posted as much a few months ago and someone (use that term loosely) must have been angry enough with my posts to register under a phony name just long enough to chime in with some nonsense about "yaking" too much. Neat stuff Cheesy

9827  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Lei'd In Hawaii on: July 24, 2011, 05:41:04 PM
If they had released those shows as a live album in the fall of 1967 - their star would have only fallen that much faster in the wake of Monterey.  The Heider tapes are interesting now - but a fake live album of that material would have sealed their fate as irrelevant.

Brian should have finished SMiLE and the band should have performed the magnum opus at Monterey Pop.  Ohh well.

You do know the original masterplan was to cherry-pick live tracks from Hawaii (or Heider), Michigan 1966, and whatever else was in the vaults and use those to fill out Wild Honey? How would that have gone over, if *that* had ever happened?

It's part of the mindset of the band in the latter parts of 1967, just a total throw it against the wall and see what sticks kind of deal. At least they stole an awesome single from Redwood... LOL
9828  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl playing 12-string on God Only Knows on: July 24, 2011, 05:32:06 PM
aeijtzsche,

Do you know what the sound is on IJWMFTT on the mono version about 5 seconds in? It is not on the stereo version...

More specific on the sound? Is it an instrumental or vocal sound? I hear what sounds like a very faint fuzz tone "hit" around 5 seconds in on mono (hits on "I" and "after "mind" in the lyrics), but it's also there in stereo, right channel even more faint than mono.
9829  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Lei'd In Hawaii on: July 24, 2011, 05:23:58 PM
A link to the essay on Wally Heider's site. Fascinating reading....
http://wallyheider.com/wordpress/2005/03/recording-the-beach-boys-in-hawaii/

Reading through all that, and whatever other writings and histories I've heard from the likes of Dale Manquen and others, does this sound like the type of mobile setup that would record these shows with enough "technical" errors and flubs to make it unusable? No one really commented on it a few days ago, but doesn't it sound like a cover-up for lackluster and somewhat spacey performances rather than technical gremlins?

Two points, one I've asked before:

1. One of the Hawaii shows is mixed down to mono. Does this mean multitracks of that show exist in the vaults at this time? I'd guess "yes".

2. Saying the material is lackluster does not make it any less compelling, even the Heider tapes...that coda to California Girls is just stunning, a drop-dead gorgeous vocal part. I think without Brian as a presence on the tapes, the shows would be less compelling to hear.
9830  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 24, 2011, 05:15:53 PM
105 pages and there is still a mention of "fan mixes" alongside talk of an award-winning, professional recording engineer mixing the project with the original first-generation studio master tapes on equipment much like would have been used when those tapes were brand new? Let me wash that down with a belt of whiskey or three before I say too much more... Grin
9831  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: From someone who would know something about The Smile Sessions... on: July 22, 2011, 11:00:20 AM
Community Chest = Brian's bank account and Capitol songwriting royalties.

Have a space on the board for "Plan Tour With The Maharishi". Have another space for "Invest in Nick Grillo's Real Estate Scheme". Then have another for "Fly To Holland, Record New Album".  When you land on those, all your money disappears until you draw the Community Chest card.
9832  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl playing 12-string on God Only Knows on: July 22, 2011, 10:48:14 AM
For the record I hear little evidence of Carl playing guitar on the final mix of that tune. Unless he's buried in the mix as he's chunking away 1/4 note rhythm chords with the keyboard instruments.

Just wanted to point out that having the guitar go direct into the board could well have been a sonic choice as well, although there are specific sessions where the guitar had to go direct due to lack of space on the studio floor. Also, just because we see a photo of a certain guitarist sitting in the booth playing, we don't see whether he's plugged into an amp in an iso booth or on the floor or not.

One of the greatest rhythm guitarists ever - Nile Rodgers - got all those incredible Strat tones by going direct into the board, where he could shape and EQ the sound as he was mixing and it was the pure sound of the guitar to work with. Now picture sending Carl's Rickenbacker 12-string direct through those awesome mid-60's preamps and opto-compressors and you have one of the definitive 12-string electric jangle tones...no amp necessary.
9833  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Lei'd In Hawaii on: July 22, 2011, 10:29:41 AM
It has to be pointed out that the mobile equipment shipped to Hawaii to record those shows was apparently the finest and most technically advanced mobile recording equipment and setup you could find for hire in 1967. The engineers were highly skilled and experienced, the gear from Wally Heider was top of the line as he all but cornered the mobile recording rental/for-hire business in the 60's since he was so damned good at what he did. And if you see photos or still shots of the control room, they even had a TV monitor set up to watch the action on the stage - whereas many mobile operations consisted of the engineers sitting in a plain truck outside the venue.

So I never bought into the "technical difficulties" line, I always thought it was used to cover the poor quality of the performances and the songs - which just wouldn't cut it for a wide, full-concert live release. Which is why they tried to re-record them anyway. If there *were* technical issues, does anyone hear them on the tapes? Or do we hear something the band was hoping exceeded their notions of what they had just played over the course of 2 shows and fell short when they heard the playbacks?

Again, that's not knowing the full story - maybe there was a bad mic somewhere or a tape issue but with Heider's crew and top-of-the-line gear on hand, how would they muck up not only one but TWO live show recordings due to tech issues?

Answer is, they (Heider's crew) probably didn't.
9834  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 21, 2011, 11:13:10 AM
Then let us have 38 pages about cricket matches, Japan upsetting the United States in the Women's World Cup finals, Jeremy Clarkson as Lawrence of Incompetence, and the fact that the San Francisco Giants have a pitcher who shares a name with a certain Beach Boy and has a beard that has become part of pop culture. It's only fair in the context of this thread and its random veering into off-topic territory.

Of course, I said "to each his own" but it seems like a waste of some very good research, conversation, and the whole Smile research vibe where folks argue, agree, debate, veer off topic, and once in awhile produce something genuinely new and interesting as a result, if this thread is considered a stop-off to check in on a release date and complain when no one has it yet. Again, that's just me, if this thread is such a place to ask if anyone has a release date or say why doesn't someone have a release date, to each his own.
9835  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: From someone who would know something about The Smile Sessions... on: July 21, 2011, 11:07:22 AM
It's been delayed until December 28, 2012.

Damn. Angry. Seven days after the end of the world.

Maybe we could get another greatest hits comp in the meantime???

I'd settle for at least a limited-edition Smile tote bag - as beach season still has a good 6 weeks or so left, I need something durable yet stylish and hip to carry my booze.
9836  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 21, 2011, 11:05:17 AM
Just to chime in: Anyone who may be somewhat new to Smile and the kind of digging and researching which Smile fan-dom usually leads to could find a treasure trove of information - solid, factual information sometimes confirmed or debunked in the process of the thread itself - contained right here in this very thread. I've learned quite a few new things, I tried to get some stuff on the discussion tables that hasn't been discussed much, and it's still a work in progress. This and a few other related threads are pretty comprehensive on some smaller details of the Smile saga, and it's a very cool thing to have available.

I'm just saying that because reading about release dates and whether or not someone can post a firm date for this box set to hit the stores no longer seems like it can be the overall, main purpose of this thread topic, although to each his own. Again, I'm just sayin'...spouting off, whatever...if you come here constantly looking for a fucking release date and not finding one, there's a whole bunch of really neat stuff you're missing if that's all this thread represents.  Smiley
9837  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do It Again Re-recording? on: July 20, 2011, 10:22:54 AM
Maybe they were just having a little spat over Mike's logo designs. Although the scope of those design options is probably limited to: A. a surfboard or B. a beach ball
9838  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 20, 2011, 10:19:05 AM
A case could be made that the film, specifically Brian as depicted in 1966-67, not only isn't very nice but is also deliberately misleading, bordering on being slanderous. I'd argue at least at that point in time when that film was shown there seemed to be nothing but contempt for Smile and those people surrounding the creation of Smile coming from at least one faction within the Beach Boys organization. It's just bizarre and uncomfortable to watch that kind of contempt unfold on film like that, some 30+ years after the fact.

Rather than speculating about how enthusiastic some of those same members of the band may have been in 1967 to see the music released, I'd rather see the current events as a testament to the individuals involved, where so many hatchets were able to be buried or at least temporarily covered over in order to make the events of 2011 a reality. They'd need quite a large and deep spread of land in order to bury all those hatchets, I'd say...but it is amazing these same individuals could pull it together and agree to work to get this kind of thing to the fans. That has been a very positive part of the entire story, up to this point.
9839  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 20, 2011, 07:20:33 AM
Before going any further, I need to ask: Was Brian Wilson given any veto power or even offered an advance viewing of "An American Family" before it was broadcast or even as a working script was being prepared? Or did he have any control over the content at all?
9840  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 20, 2011, 06:47:59 AM
Just a quick question, is discussing the "An American Family" movie like touching the third rail of Beach Boys history or something? Cheesy

Kinda depends of your degree of knowledge regarding the making thereof.

Is it a topic not to be discussed then, or a topic which no one will discuss? I think it should be explored in light of some of the sentiments being expressed in this thread.

For the record, I just watched it for the first time last night since it was broadcast on US television, and it was far worse than I remembered. My reaction was probably similar to your own reaction, as you watched the Doors movie. Smiley

Hmm, The Doors movie is fantastic. Being accurate or not, it's still a great film.

Off topic for a minute...

If you had substituted Oliver Stone's "JFK" for "The Doors", I'd say the exact same thing. It is a terrific and gripping film, but historically a complete load of crap that places characters Stone created into specific historical contexts to back up his theories - with the idea that his story wouldn't hold water without the need to invent characters and scenes which never happened.

I don't mind "The Doors" movie as a music video, and in some ways I think Stone devised the film that way to be played loud in the theaters, but I can also understand where someone more closely invested in and knowing of the history of the band would have issues with what was shown in that film, again like JFK showing some scenes of pure fantasy which boost the film but distort the truth.

In that way, it ties in with the BB's film.

9841  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 19, 2011, 12:31:45 PM
I listened to WFIL AM here in Philly and the only songs that got decent airplay after Good Vibrations was Darlin' in late 67-early 68, Do It Again in 1968 and I Can Hear Music in 1969. After that, nothing, and I mean nothing. Fred Vail's story checks out with me, because they couldn't buy time on AM radio in Philly.
I totally understand where you are coming from, as the station you grew up with was your reference at the time, and unless you were to travel to another city there would be no other way to hear what other stations and local markets sounded like. I can't say it enough times how shocked and amazed I was to hear aircheck recordings from 66-69 in various cities and markets, because before I knew what an "aircheck" even was, I had this impression of top 40 radio that was very inaccurate. When I heard examples of it, the word stunned doesn't even begin to describe how I felt listening to some of that stuff! Smiley

It's also fun to see surveys from those stations and see how a single like Heroes did better in Boston in 1967 than it did in most other areas.
I can see L.A. being one of the last major cities to still play Beach Boys singles and cuts, but what other cities are you talking about other than Boston? From what I've been told by my older borther and ex-Brother-In-Law who were avid Beach Boys fans from the beginning, the Boys fared well here in Philly in the early days. To fall out of favor so fast, in such a short amount of time, after such a big hit as Good Vibrations has always blown my mind (that's 60's speak). Wink

Several years ago I did some research on available AM top 40 station surveys, trying to grab a major station from each part of the US, time permitting. I took each Beach Boys single from pet Sounds up to Breakaway and some stragglers and tracked how they charted in each area of the US. Florida, Detroit, New York, Boston, LA, mid-west area, etc.

I had heard things about localized chart success and chart failures on a record like Heroes, and wanted to see it firsthand. Most of them followed the Billboard charts, although not all cities were in step with Billboard, and that's what I wanted to find out: Which cities bucked the trend so to speak, because what Billboard did in part was average all those surveys together to make their own charts. That's where I got Boston's info from 'RKO and the like.

I have handwritten notes filling several pages from that research, it was interesting mostly to see unexpected cities jump on a single like Darlin or Heroes more than the ones we would normally expect.

Philly is an unusual media market, as true as it was in the 60's it was in the 80's and in 2011 as well. I've never heard the reasons for the drop-off with the Beach Boys in the 60's but if I find any surveys with info I'll post it up.
9842  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 19, 2011, 12:00:10 PM
Just a quick question, is discussing the "An American Family" movie like touching the third rail of Beach Boys history or something? Cheesy

Kinda depends of your degree of knowledge regarding the making thereof.

Is it a topic not to be discussed then, or a topic which no one will discuss? I think it should be explored in light of some of the sentiments being expressed in this thread.

For the record, I just watched it for the first time last night since it was broadcast on US television, and it was far worse than I remembered. My reaction was probably similar to your own reaction, as you watched the Doors movie. Smiley
9843  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do It Again Re-recording? on: July 19, 2011, 11:56:18 AM
They must be Gettin' Hungry for a hit.
9844  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 19, 2011, 11:54:25 AM
Just a quick question, is discussing the "An American Family" movie like touching the third rail of Beach Boys history or something? Cheesy
9845  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 19, 2011, 11:52:26 AM
I listened to WFIL AM here in Philly and the only songs that got decent airplay after Good Vibrations was Darlin' in late 67-early 68, Do It Again in 1968 and I Can Hear Music in 1969. After that, nothing, and I mean nothing. Fred Vail's story checks out with me, because they couldn't buy time on AM radio in Philly.

I totally understand where you are coming from, as the station you grew up with was your reference at the time, and unless you were to travel to another city there would be no other way to hear what other stations and local markets sounded like. I can't say it enough times how shocked and amazed I was to hear aircheck recordings from 66-69 in various cities and markets, because before I knew what an "aircheck" even was, I had this impression of top 40 radio that was very inaccurate. When I heard examples of it, the word stunned doesn't even begin to describe how I felt listening to some of that stuff! Smiley

It's also fun to see surveys from those stations and see how a single like Heroes did better in Boston in 1967 than it did in most other areas.
9846  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 19, 2011, 11:07:47 AM
Some proof is in the audio tapes. I also thought top 40 was a much more restrictive format in 1967 until I heard with my own ears how wild some of the playlists were. Again, it could also be a radical difference from city to city with what was played, but hearing "Blue Jay Way" and "Here Today" on the same drive time playlist on an LA station from Dec. '67, then "A Day In The Life" shortly after "Shades Of Gray" from July '67 on another station's afternoon drive time shift was an eye-opener. Or ear-opener... Cheesy
9847  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian & Mike writing together again on: July 19, 2011, 10:55:35 AM
Just please God, no references to cars, the beach or namechecking old song titles!

That request sounds like someone asking Burger King to not sell hamburgers... Grin

If Mike does that, it will only leave him with TM to sing about!
I want the Mike who wrote lyrics to "Today!"or "warmth of the sun" to come back and write lyrics that are awesome. Brian and Mike could write some great reflective songs about age or the history of the band.

That's what I'm naively hoping for too. All those years of life between them, there has to be more to write about than a cheesy rehashing of the past. Somewhere inside Mike there's still a damn fine lyricist, and maybe reconnecting with Brian will allow him to get in touch with said lyricist.

If I could reprint the article right now I would, but what is written above sounds remarkably similar to what Don Was said he told Mike and Brian in the mid 90's.
9848  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 19, 2011, 10:32:46 AM
Don't forget that before very long, radio listeners began to change--they certainly became able to tolerate jammy material that stretched into the double-digit play length, so why not something like SMiLE? Once again, it may have been just a hair ahead of its time.

And right now, I'm gonna contradict my own argument somewhat: FM listeners became tolerant--even embracing--of long-form stuff. AM listeners remained with the 3-minute single.

The main exception to that that I can think of was Sgt. Pepper. I remember hearing nearly all the cuts played on AM radios constantly that summer. And this was in Iowa. On AM stations. From an album that had no singles. Things were changing.

So, in the end: who the hell knows?

Let's not rewrite history entirely here with what was played versus what wasn't played, I agree with Onkster's words above that times were changing and Spring/Summer 1967 was *the* turning point for pop music. As proof I have a sampling of airchecks from various stations around the country in 1967 and among the songs played were album cuts from Magical Mystery Tour, Sgt Pepper, The Monkees' Headquarters, and other "albums" beyond the obvious singles.

I will concede the local markets had a major impact on a song's success, and what played big in LA could totally die in a market like Boston.

I have several examples of LA stations still playing Pet Sounds album cuts in 1967, songs like "Here Today" on AM radio formats.
9849  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian & Mike writing together again on: July 19, 2011, 10:24:06 AM
What's the most recent memorable song that Brian and Mike collaborated on?

("memorably awful" doesn't count)

Reminds me of a story Don Was told in Pulse! magazine when he was working with Brian and Mike in the 90's. He told them if they write about surfing it won't ring true, and thought they should write about their family struggles and redemption, something uplifting and personal.

And they came back to him with something called "Baywatch Nights". Grin
9850  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Sessions box set! on: July 19, 2011, 10:19:07 AM
I'd like to pose one question to those speculating about Mike Love and Van Dyke and all things related in this thread.

How would one explain the portrayal Brian, Smile, Good Vibrations, Van Dyke, and the entire 1966-67 era received in the 2000 TV movie "An American Family"?

For those not as familiar with the film, I won't comment for now on the exact content, but take 10 minutes or so to watch the Pet Sounds through Smile section of that film. Understand that a lot of effort was spent trying to get the details of the costumes, sets, equipment, clothing, etc to look accurate to the period down to Mike Love's Moog Ribbon Controller and the cut of his Pet Sounds-era beard, and for the most part the original songs and session tapes of the Beach Boys were used in the film to add another layer of authenticity.

So this film came from "official" Beach Boys channels, please consider that when watching. And that portrayal of Brian and everything happening around him during that time period had to come from someone's ideas of what took place and how things happened, and perhaps an opinion of that era which those someones wanted to put forth in public.

I'll ask it again, how can that "official" film portrayal be explained and/or justified in relation to the recent theories and speculations in this thread?
You're kidding..right?.. Huh

Pardon? Was my post not clear enough? Watch the 10-15 minute segment in that film dedicated to 1966-67. Ask yourself: Whose version of events did you just watch? And consider why someone would want to put that image of this era out there.


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