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647801 Posts in 25914 Topics by 3699 Members - Latest Member: BigRed June 24, 2019, 10:42:22 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: June 21, 2019, 09:14:34 AM
The answer to why Brian couldn't just "walk away" from Landy could be a simple one. There were contracts signed and legal issues beyond the main issue that Landy was a psychiatric care professional, a doctor who was board certified, and who was (originally) a specialist in treating addictions. In the worst cases his treatment method involved an almost full immersion into his program 24 hours a day to where the patient would be under constant observation and treatment in order to treat the addictions and surrounding physical and mental issues.

Landy was originally hired to implement this immersive, full-control "treatment" to cure Brian of the addictions and related physical ailments and Brian was effectively signed over to Landy's care. Allowing a patient in addiction recovery to simply walk away would be like pressing the self-destruct button, and Landy was being paid to cure Brian. Put 2+2 together.

What happened eventually was a total abuse of the doctor-patient relationship that went beyond ANYTHING anyone would have imagined, which could have and almost did destroy Brian...at that point, action was taken *through legal channels* to remove Brian from Landy's care.

If it were as simple as Brian walking away, there would not have been a need to get court orders and legal actions in order to get Landy the f*** out of Brian's life. Landy had abused his position enough to have taken control of not only Brian's recovery, but his financial, social, professional, and musical life...until the courts stepped in, along with medical licensing boards and got Landy out of there, along with stripping him of his license.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Now live over at Sound On Sound magazine... a tech interview with Mark Linett on: June 21, 2019, 08:57:49 AM
I went back and looked at the video, and now know what the letter is.

Shortly before the shoot I had a water leak in my studio and a bunch of letters and other papers from my teenage years  got wet and had been laid out to dry. The letter is from my old collection of QSL cards and is a response to my sending a report that I heard the station on my shortwave receiver.

Nothing to do with the Beach Boys..........

Very cool! I was curious to find out how a bit of Philly radio history ended up in your studio, nothing related to the Beach Boys. I didn't know if you had been doing some market research or some work that involved WIP like surveys or something, but it was a QSL. Thanks Mark!

FYI anyone who doesn't know: QSL cards were a part of ham radio and shortwave radio operators and listeners...when you would pull in a distant station or if a ham operator made contact and communicated with another base, you could ask them for a QSL card which was like a record of having pulled in that station or that operator that you'd collect which you'd keep as a record or log. It could be amazing how far certain AM broadcast stations could reach given the right conditions, if there was "skip" involved, and depending on their power coming from the transmitters on the right night. I think the old term for certain AM rock/pop stations with all that power was either "blowtorch" or "flamethrower" because the signal was huge. As a kid I used to do it with some extended bands and be thrilled to pull in some random highway police or tow truck bands around 159 mhz on this little extended range transistor radio, not even a shortwave or ham/scanner.

Anyway...thanks again Mark! Very cool to see that little slice of Philly radio within an amazing video.  Smiley
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Comments on Czechoslovakia at the Lucerna Great Hall in Prague on: June 20, 2019, 10:09:20 AM
Thank you Stephen for that fascinating info! What a great way to avoid the money regulations...ingenious!

Not to be political, but this chapter of the band's history and the people who came to see them play should stand as a prime example of what communism really was...whenever someone starts extolling the joys and benefits of communist living. Talk to those who lived under communism and behind the iron curtain and you'll hear how it really was. Kudos to the Boys for playing this historic and important show.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/dunayevskaya/works/1941/ussr-capitalist.htm

No thanks - no sale.  Grin  Not gonna get into it here.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: June 20, 2019, 10:08:28 AM
There is merely one man who claims that Brian is controlled...the same guy who sued the hell out of Brian, Brian's wife, Brian's friends and business partners over a lousy picture on a CD a little over a decade ago* (as in, I don't think someone who has already blatantly lied about their own cousin should have any bearing on the debate about said cousin). And let's not forget the misinformation/disinformation that was spread by someone on this very forum (and possibly other forums) that painted Melinda in a very very bad light (information that was blatantly false). I feel like this information has permeated the minds of some posters, and has melded with the examples I gave at the beginning of this post, and created a foundation of distrust for Melinda or Brian's organization.


This pretty much nails it. Let's not forget indeed. The sad part is that some continue to believe this false innuendo and gossip coming from places of jealousy and personal grudges against specific individuals instead of listening to people who actually know and have known the situation, where the facts have been in the open for years now. It's sad to the point of pathetic that a very small number of so-called "fans" still believe this crap which has been debunked and disproven for years now over believing the actual truth.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Now live over at Sound On Sound magazine...Mark Linett! on: June 20, 2019, 09:59:01 AM
I'm really, really happy to see that video interview with Mark posted! If Mark himself is reading this thread, I just had a few questions:

At roughly :44 into the video, there is a shot of a letter addressed to Mark from radio station 610 WIP in Philly...tagged on air by the DJ's as"Color 61" or "610 Color Radio" whatever that meant  Grin . I was wondering what that letter was, and how you came in contact with 610 WIP at that time. It's been a sports talk type of station for many years now, but in the 60's it was a Metromedia owned station that played the format "middle of the road", mixing current hits with standards like Cole, Sinatra, etc and news versus the rock stations in Philly WIBG and WFIL. As a Philly radio guy, anytime I see an old callsign like WIP I'm curious to hear any backstories. And both my Mom and Dad back in their younger years after the war were listeners of "The Dawn Patrol" overnight show with Joe McCauley until Joe started doing morning drive-time.  Smiley

I know it's been discussed before, but I was also wondering how you handled the old 3-track tapes: There is the story of Geoff Emerick and George Martin in the 70's having trouble both finding and keeping running a working 3-track machine when they were doing the Beatles "Hollywood Bowl" project, as all those tapes were done by Capitol on 3-track. Was it a case of more working 3-track machines being available near LA or just that more had been refurbished and in working condition in more recent times than in the 70s?

Thanks again for a terrific video interview.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Now live over at Sound On Sound magazine...Mark Linett! on: June 20, 2019, 09:41:48 AM
Matt - Thanks for sharing the link! Just a suggestion, add Mark's name to the thread title so people reading know what it's about.

This is *essential* viewing for everyone. Absolutely terrific. Mark is one of the true heroes in the band's history.

Direct YouTube link: https://youtu.be/lFHGP4kwgt4
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Comments on Czechoslovakia at the Lucerna Great Hall in Prague on: June 19, 2019, 02:39:16 PM
Thank you Stephen for that fascinating info! What a great way to avoid the money regulations...ingenious!

Not to be political, but this chapter of the band's history and the people who came to see them play should stand as a prime example of what communism really was...whenever someone starts extolling the joys and benefits of communist living. Talk to those who lived under communism and behind the iron curtain and you'll hear how it really was. Kudos to the Boys for playing this historic and important show.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike and Bruce in Hannover June 18 on: June 19, 2019, 12:31:05 PM
FYI Most people here were and are talking about the Beach Boys and will continue to do so. Too bad Micha didn't do the same.

Closed and good riddance.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike and Bruce in Hannover June 18 on: June 19, 2019, 12:00:10 PM
What Micha said is available for all to see. Instead of being cool about the whole thing, he instead chose to trash this forum and all the people here by painting us and this place with the word "hate" because he doesn't like some of the opinions posted here. Micha also did this after being gone for 3 years, not posting or contributing anything, and above that did so in a thread about a concert meet up where no one had been disrespectful or "hateful" toward him. He only got one reply...

So the two mods saw it for what it is and called it out. What will stand is that this kind of nonsense is not welcome here, and nor will it be tolerated moving forward. As Billy said, the irony is how the only hate was coming from the guy complaining about the hate on this board.

Period.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: June 19, 2019, 08:05:20 AM
Whether or not you're a fan of the band, and I am a fan, I'd recommend reading this interview and article about Blink 182 drummer Travis Barker and his return to touring after major health issues...these coming after he survived a horrible plane crash just over a decade ago. It's relevant to what is being discussed about Brian Wilson and touring, and the interview itself is very uplifting and powerful (and I'd say inspirational as others have found Barker's saga to be, similar to Brian's own story of recovery and 2nd chances and all that...).

I doubt *anyone* is asking whether Travis is being forced to return to touring, why he's out there despite major health issues that could threaten his well being at any moment, how or why he's being pumped full of meds, or any of the stuff (bullshit is a better term at this point) going around for years now about BW's touring and personal life.

Here are a few quotes from the Barker interview, pertinent I'd say to seeing what's been happening with Brian in perhaps a different and more personal light:

“As long as I'm not dead, I think they know I'm going to tour,” Barker quips.

“I mean, I'm able to tour. I still am on blood-thinners, because I have scarred veins that are creating blood clots. But I'm touring and I'm playing drums every day, so I'm fine,” Barker assures Yahoo Entertainment. “And then I got hit by a bus… but I'm running and kind of working out again and my back's in good shape. I bounce back pretty quickly, knock on wood, but yeah, I'm good. I'm excited for this summer’s tour and everything's all good.”


I guess from my history, the stuff I've overcome, my plane crash and stuff like that has just given me strength to overcome stuff and just really take advantage and cherish my second chance at life,” Barker continues. “When little things like this happen, I can't let them be so big or just take over my life to where I give up. I don't know, it's never been an option.”


And here is a link to the full interview. Seriously, consider giving this a read, it's worth it:
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/blink-182-s-travis-barker-talks-health-scares-second-chance-at-life-and-why-giving-up-has-never-been-an-option-220212661.html
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs That Could’ve Fit On Pet Sounds on: June 19, 2019, 07:21:48 AM
Lonely Sea
Interesting choice. What makes you pick it? Just curious. Smiley

I was going for a Brian song pre-Pet Sounds that would have fit...and for a change, I didn't consider production or arrangement in this choice. I went mostly with the theme, the tone of the lyrics, and the delivery of the vocal.

Consider Lonely Sea was *early* BW and Usher, and yet this is a young guy singing about his lost love being like the ocean, as he's seeing how the waves roll in and out for eternity without stopping, like having and losing the love(s) of your life. It's that contemplative aspect of the lyrics, the self-reflection and realization that all which comes and goes in someone's life really is a fleeting concept versus the realities that every day the waves will roll in and out and the sun will rise and set. Just like another lyric soon to come, "still I have the warmth of the sun..." that will be there even after a devastating loss of love.

It's pretty heavy emotional and self-reflective material to be sung by a guy who's 20-21 years old, right? It's the same kind of self-reflection and realization which would come to full fruition on Pet Sounds, which had tracks included and sequenced in such a way that you hear the narrator singing the songs progressing from the joy and wonder of young love and infatuation on the first track...ultimately to reveal by the final tracks on the album that he wasn't made for these times, he hasn't found a place to fit in or people to fit with, and the former ideal of young love and beauty has now cut her hair, grown older and more mature, and the ideal from track one has in fact changed...in reality versus images in his mind.

With that background, Lonely Sea stands as one of the most melancholy and ethereal songs in Brian's canon, and though it's simple lyrically, the message is a powerful one...so to my ears, it fits or would fit near the end of side 2 on Pet Sounds, bookending both I Just Wasn't Made For These Times and Caroline No, and it's sonic imagery of the ocean and waves perpetually rolling in and out fits as a similar compliment to the train speeding by. They're both versions of the same idea expressed in sound and visual imagery created by those sounds.


Again, avoiding focusing on the production elements in favor of the lyrical and emotional theme, Brian's vocal delivery is perfect in its longing and dramatic via his sustained notes floating over the chords. The chords themselves are quirky enough and non-standard enough to have fit alongside anything on Pet Sounds...this was *not* a song built on cliche doo-wop and "Blue Moon" chord progressions. If you replace the full drum kit (especially the constant ride cymbal) on Lonely Sea with more sparse percussion, replace the strummed 50's-style guitar with Hammond organ pads and add some woodwinds or strings...it would fit right in on Pet Sounds.

All the more amazing to consider this was very *early* BW, and yet there he was already hitting those same themes as he would later do and receive massive praise for on Pet Sounds.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs That Could’ve Fit On Pet Sounds on: June 18, 2019, 06:59:00 PM
Lonely Sea
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike and Bruce in Hannover June 18 on: June 18, 2019, 08:49:26 AM
Hey, if a band performs Beach Boys songs whithin 10 minutes walking distance from my home, I go - no matter how many actual Beach Boys are on stage, even if there aren't any at all.

Let us know how it was.

Not on this board, no. Took a peek in a few threads and found: what made me leave and still makes me want to puke is still the essence of this board, an agenda that spoiled all the fun this board once provided for me. I can't stand this hate. Probably my last post on here unless, say, Brian performs in this town which is unlikely to happen.


It looks like Micha wanted a reaction, so here is one:

You do NOT come back and post after 3 years' absence and proceed to trash the board and the people here in one fell swoop. The agenda in this case appears to be yours and yours alone in this thread, and it will fail as it has failed for the past 5+ years...the agenda being paint this forum and everyone here as "haters", "toxic" (that old chestnut...) and throw the word "hate" around because you disagree with some of the opinions posted. Ignorant, naturally, of the other 98% of the posts that are made and have been made in the three years since you last posted.

The board is still here. The same mods are still here. There are little or no dust-ups or disturbances where bans have to be issued as in the past due to member behavior. The numbers of members, readers, and posters/posts have both exceeded previous averages and stayed consistent since the public exit and subsequent trashing of this community by former members who perhaps thought a mass exodus would follow them to greener pastures, or maybe the thought was they were too important to lose.

Well, we're still here. And the numbers are the same or greater than they were when all that garbage happened back in 2016 or whenever it was. I can see where there would be some bitterness after realizing all attempts to destroy and trash this place have failed and continue to fail, but that's no excuse to come back in the guise of setting up a meet-up at a concert then proceeding to badmouth everyone here after the one reply you received wasn't what you wanted to hear.

So, yeah...it's not welcome. Take the failed attempts to wreck this place and the people here back where they belong and let them fester there.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's most active late-70's period on tour on: June 14, 2019, 11:12:30 AM
Brian really had no interest in touring as a BeachBoy at that time. He was told he needed the money, primarily by all the people on his payroll.

That's one of the reasons I used to get into trouble here. Apparently, it's not okay to say that people on Brian's payroll wanted to keep their jobs (the majority of them did, with the exception of a few good guys). Or that people who write a book about Brian/BBa want to sell a book, or whatever. (Fine with me, but tell the truth about it, please. I'm not accusing anyone of not caring, just admit there's an additional motive).

Also, at that point in time there had to be a Wilson performing for it to be a legitimate Beach Boys show. Brian wasn't happy and it showed.



Thanks Debbie. Let me chime in and say that the line "tell the truth about it, please" is and should be one of the guiding principles of any valid look at the history of this band. Sadly that principle too often falls by the wayside, and people who do know and tell the truth get labeled as the troublemakers when in fact those doing the labeling can be the real offenders. Anyway, it's good to get the truth out there in all cases, isn't it?  Smiley

I think it was the late, great Hal Blaine who said in an interview "Brian was the goose that laid the golden eggs..." for a lot of people, and if anyone interested in getting deeper into this band's history would look at that one notion and apply it to the earliest days as a band in Hawthorne through all the turmoil, they will see a common thread. Anyone who has seen "Love & Mercy", specifically the Kubrick tribute scene near the end when Brian's life flashes by and he's visited by various figures from his past, has seen several specific examples.

The names and faces changed, the expectations and behaviors did not for decades. Imagine the pressure of being held responsible for carrying, supporting, and forwarding an enterprise and numbers of people waiting for the golden eggs, and either not wanting to do it, saying "I don't want to do it", or simply not being physically or mentally up for doing it...and then feeling browbeaten into doing it anyway. Who would be happy in those cases?

No wonder the guy looked unhappy at various points.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Synths in the Brian's Back Era on: June 10, 2019, 09:46:41 AM
This gets into similar areas as other recent discussions about real sitar versus Coral Electric Sitar, etc...

In this case the Moog Taurus comes down to form, function, and design. If you get a chance to check one out, it is designed primarily for *stage* or live use, and designed almost 100% to be played and controlled with the musician's feet. Obviously it's the design of traditional organ pedals, so a traditional organist from church, jazz organ combos who did not have a bassist (like Jimmy Smith, Groove Holmes, etc), and the like could add this to a full Moog rig - and that was the original concept. The Taurus was supposed to be part of a larger rig.

All the controls on a Taurus are designed for foot control, from the actual note pedals to the sound/channel bank changes (footswitches) to the extra wide slider controls on the top left and right. The only things not for the feet are controls under a little clear plastic screen top-center.

Did players use the Taurus with their hands, mounted at normal keyboard level? Of course, many did and do. However it's not an instrument built for that purpose or function. I'd argue there may be some unique sounds in the Taurus, but I'd also argue there would be nothing you could not dial in on a standard Moog with keyboard controller, and have the playability level increase greatly (obviously...)

What makes this interesting is there is at least *one* very well documented example of Brian getting on the floor and playing the bass pedals of his Baldwin in 1967 to get the Fall Breaks bassline. There are also the cases of Brian asking either Don Randi, Larry Knechtel, or another organist to play the pedals of the Hammond B3 in the studio with his hands for Good Vibrations sessions at some point.

But Brian himself was *not* a pedal organ player. Many rock players of that era did not play the pedals of their various Hammonds because it was superfluous, especially if there already was a bass player in the group. And many were *not* traditional organ players to begin with, and did not come from the backgrounds of learning full church or theater organ. So they often didn't have the pedal assembly attached at all, especially on the road.

Taking all of that into consideration, is it possible Brian used a Taurus on some of those tracks? Absolutely, yes. Is it probable that he played it as designed, using his feet with the unit on the floor? I'd say 99% not possible...but who knows except those who were there. Is it more probable Brian played those bass lines on a MiniMoog or a similar Moog that could get most of the same sounds and even attack using a keyboard controller versus pounding foot pedals, when dialed in the same way? I'd say yes.

So basically where I stand - happy to be corrected as usual - is suggesting you could hammer in nails on a construction job using a screwdriver handle, but why would you do that when you have a hammer available?

If a Taurus were used, I highly doubt it was played using the feet. And if it were used, I'd think it was used as a novelty if used at all, as in "let's try this new gadget" while an easier and more user friendly way already existed through a Moog keyboard controlled device.  The Taurus ultimately was designed for live on stage or live in studio performance, to give keyboardists who played traditional organ pedals the same tools they had on other organs for several decades (and centuries lol) prior, or to give guitarists or other band members the ability to lay down bass grooves with their feet while playing their regular instruments...see Geddy Lee for the most obvious example.

Just my 2 cents.
16  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Dr John RIP on: June 06, 2019, 07:31:19 PM
RIP Mac, The Doctor...what a loss. What a great musician and performer.

For RangeRover and others, here's a quick rundown of his story...it's fascinating, apart from the usual obituaries that will come tonight and tomorrow, check out some bios of him for more info.

So what happened was Mac was a young prodigy in New Orleans. He was a popular club performer, and unfortunately some criminal elements got involved with his career early on. At a young age, they would send beautiful women who were in their employ to be his companions. They also got him hooked on heroin...so basically when Mac needed a fix and needed money, he would become basically indentured to these club owners (and that syndicate). Mac would be obligated to play these clubs essentially for a fix, and the club owners made a fortune on him because the crowds would pack the clubs to hear him, and he wasn't getting all the money. It was all going to the drugs. And the club owners/syndicate would have a full supply of both their women and the dope to keep him basically a slave to play music at these joints. Mac got busted selling both entities, and ended up in Federal prison.

This is the version of events I've heard and was told, any corrections are welcome. That part of the story is not as often heard.

Ok, enter another New Orleans musician named Harold Battiste, one of the great behind the scenes musicians in New Orleans and in Los Angeles.

Harold Battiste had established himself in Los Angeles and was working sessions with the Wrecking Crew on some very big records. He knew he had to get Mac out of the bad scene he was stuck in around New Orleans. So Harold helped get Mac out to LA, when he got out of the fed pen, and started to get him session work, alongside the Wrecking Crew, most often on guitar even though he became world famous as a pianist later. So Harold was getting Mac steady work in the LA studios, including Sonny Bono's sessions (keep that in mind...), and this was around 1965.

What Harold and Mac would do is utilize extra time which Sonny had booked but not used to start making their own recordings, with a very heavy New Orleans flavor, yet very dark in sound and subject matter. This is where they started developing the persona of "Dr. John The Night Tripper", complete with voodoo and New Orleans hoodoo overtones and imagery. They would record using that extra studio time from Sonny and eventually were ready with enough material to start pitching Dr. John as an album artist.

And that is where Mac became Dr. John, where he with help from Battiste got out of the mess he was in from New Orleans and cleaned up, and where basically history would be made.

Very few had made the New Orleans black magic and voodoo themes (and persona) a commercial hit, surely not in rock music that rock stations would play. The big names that had broken commercially, like Aaron Neville and the Neville Brothers, all of Allen Toussaint's work, a smash hit like Lee Dorsey's "Working In A Coal Mine" with that *crazy* New Orleans drum groove, The Meters, previous hits in the 50's with Earl Palmer on drums, Fats Domino, etc...it was pure New Orleans but the "Night Tripper" persona brought some of the New Orleans voodoo and superstitions and whatnot into the mainstream. And the music had that foreboding sound which the other commercially successful hits (minus perhaps 'I Put A Spell On You') did not have upfront.

So that's Dr. John...Mac Rebennack...The Night Tripper...

Here he is playing guitar on a session for Sonny Bono and Cher, with Harold Battiste, at Gold Star studio early 1966. A photo taken from my old blog (link here http://classicstudiosessions.blogspot.com/2010/07/classic-session-at-gold-star-1966.html ) and project on this film:



A few samples, this was probably his biggest commercial hit, "Right Place, Wrong Time", used in quite a few movies, shows, and TV commercials...the intro is *nasty*.  Smiley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grzL8THFlUs

This was Dr. John's appearance in The Band's "The Last Waltz", doing "Such A Night"...what is odd is that Allen Toussaint did the horn arrangements for the concert, yet there isn'tmuch of a horn part on this one. But stay tuned to 2:55 in the video to hear Dr. John cut loose on some great piano licks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCRrXZP8b0I

And from that first Dr. John album, probably the most well known track, "I Walk On Gilded Splinters"...still sounds spooky as hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lekQoT485aA

As a vocalist and piano player, Dr. John had a unique sound, instantly identifiable.

RIP



17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian postponing tour the day before it starts. on: June 06, 2019, 08:26:54 AM
No one else walks in this man's shoes and knows what's going on.

Maybe the best course of action is to simply wish him the best on the most basic human level, and let the public statement stand as what it is, rather than trying to find conspiracies or other hidden "facts" to challenge or dispute it. We've had more than enough of that nonsense to last several lifetimes in recent years...
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Echo in the Canyon (New documentary w/ Brian interview) on: June 06, 2019, 06:37:37 AM
Just saw the film, pretty solid watch. As noted, there is a nice segment of the film dedicated to The Beach Boys/Brian, and they include a couple of clips from an interview Jakob did with Brian. They also brought Brian into the studio to play piano on “I Just Wasn’t Made For These Times” with Jakob and his backing band, although it’s unclear if any of the recording was used in the movie or the soundtrack, they quickly cut to different footage that didn’t have Brian there. If anyone picked up the soundtrack please report back if Brian is credited as playing on that version. Also, oddly enough, the film includes Roger McGuinn briefly recounting the story of “Ding Dang” which was pretty funny. Not sure it was an essential inclusion in the film but I appreciated it. Also at one point, Lou Adler takes credit for bringing an acetate of Pet Sounds to England and playing it to Andrew Loog-Oldham and Paul McCartney, which I don’t think I have heard offered up before.

That is true about Lou Adler, and it has been reported before. Adler himself took a copy over and played it for Paul at Andrew Loog-Oldham's place, then Kim Fowley and Keith Moon set up the listening session with McCartney AND Lennon, with that acetate copy delivered by Bruce, that has been well documented. So yes, Lou Adler had premiered it for Paul, and it had been reported previously.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Echo in the Canyon (New documentary w/ Brian interview) on: June 03, 2019, 10:16:34 AM
This was linked to from Brian's Facebook account:


‘The Immensity Of His Genius Can’t Be Measured’: Jakob Dylan, Andy Slater Talk Brian Wilson & ‘Echo In The Canyon’ Film

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/05/31/echo-in-the-canyon-jakob-dylan-andy-slater-tom-petty-interview/?fbclid=IwAR0uhPyeUNp2MAEHVtSp7ejeUQKVx4RkFp8227qnYzyuo2pOs0WvQz9z0R4




The film also spends a good chunk of time diving into the story of Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys. Dylan and Slater wanted to make sure a new group of music fans understood just how revered Wilson and his group was and still is in the music industry.

“It’s interesting because some people think of The Beach Boys with the surf boards and matching shirts,” said Dylan. “I could see if you were someone like Tom Petty and you grew up with that music, you’d remember those images as strong as the next ones. I never think of those images really. I think of the later Beach Boys stuff.”

“If you’re listening to the earlier period where Brian’s father is producing, they’re more influenced by the surf culture,” said Slater. “Brian starts to really expand the parameters of what The Beach Boys are doing by searching for the idea of how one fits into society. The immensity of his genius can’t be measured.



Bravo to Dylan, Slater, and the makers of this film for taking on this topic.

What I find both satisfying and ironic about this quote above is how for the previous however many years of reading these message boards there have been a small but vocal (and annoying) group of so-called "fans" who would react to such statements about Brian Wilson's influence on and reverence from the music industry as hype, overstatement, or even that old chestnut being a "Brianista" whatever that bullshit is supposed to mean.

So now we have yet another documentary film expressing the same sentiments and opinions that have been shot down at various times through the years within this small circle of online fans for being too much hype for Brian, by "Brianistas" or other nonsense.

The truth wins out yet again. So there is that to think about next time some online jackass starts into someone who is talking enthusiastically about Brian Wilson...

Off soapbox, back to listening to Echo In The Canyon soundtrack tunes...
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Circle of Influence: Brian and Disney on: June 03, 2019, 10:09:48 AM
I am sure everyone here is well aware that Brian has cited Disney movie music as being an influence on his own music. The most famously cited example is Brian partially basing the melody of Surfer Girl on When You Wish Upon a Star from Pinocchio. And of course Brian released his In The Key of Disney album in 2011, which was an album of Disney covers.

My father happens to be good friends with Alan Menken, the composer of the songs and soundtracks of many of the most well-known Disney renaissance films: Aladdin, The Little Mermaid, Beauty and The Beast, Pocahontas, and others. Alan is a huge Brian Wilson/Beach Boys fan, and cites Brian as one of his greatest musical influences. For example, you can definitely hear the influence in songs like Under The Sea (which Alan won an Oscar for). In fact, Alan says that Brian covering two of his songs on his In The Key of Disney album (Kiss the Girl and Colors of the Wind) is one of the two proudest and most thrilling moments of his career (the other moment being when Paul McCartney performed several of Alan’s and other Disney songs at a random nightclub appearance a few years back). Keep in mind this is a guy who has won eight Oscar awards for his music and has worked with numerous celebrities and musicians over the course of his career. So that is quite a compliment.

Alan worked closely with Will Smith and the other actors and actresses in the new live action Aladdin to assist them with their performances of his songs. So for anyone planning on watching the new Aladdin film in theaters or watching the original 1992 cartoon version, this is a cool Brian Wilson/Beach Boys connection to think about when listening to the music.

Just wanted to share this because I don’t believe Brian and Alan Menken have ever met each other and I think this is an awesome instance of musical influence coming full circle. Also, I am not sure if Brian himself realizes that his music has had such an important and direct influence on modern day Disney music, but if not, I hope word of this reaches him somehow.

Thank you for sharing that! Very cool.

The thing to remember is despite it being diminished somewhat by some within our little circle of fans and ersatz "insiders", Brian Wilson's influence on popular music - as a composer, arranger, producer, and performer - is larger and greater than I think most realize, particularly within the music industry itself, and especially among those musicians and composers as described above whose music becomes almost a subliminal part of people's lives from early childhood onward through film and other visual media like Disney, Spongebob, various video games, TV, etc...

Mr. Menken could drop Brian a line and tell him how much of an influence he has been, I'm sure it would be a most welcome gesture.

21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike working on yet another new album on: June 03, 2019, 09:58:37 AM
Well, it would have been too much to ask for Mike to cover "Blitzkrieg Bop," now, wouldn't it?  Cool Guy

One thing GF overlooks in his comparison of early BBs and the Ramones is the massively greater emphasis on melody and phrasing that accompanies even the most stripped-down of early BBs rockers. And that was part of the greatness of the early songs--Mike's singing is much more dimensional that any of the songs that became "anthemic" for the Ramones. "Rockaway Beach" doesn't have much melody to work with, so there is little that Mike can put into it--it has to cleave closely to the blueprint of the original. The backing harmonies are paint-by-numbers--not even any room for modulation as in "I Get Around."

I mean, if he wants a punk-rock song in the set, what's wrong with "Roller Skating Child" (aside from the lyrics in the age of me-too, that is)??  police

I didn't overlook that aspect as much as I ran out of time (and space/interest) to expand on it!  Grin

The thing with The Ramones is - call it a bottom line if it fits - they started making music that sounds like it did because they would turn on the radio and not hear those early 60's style songs and sounds that they loved, so they decided to make a band and do it themselves. That element of the band's entire foundation was what won me over. Forget what happened as they became big and had T-shirts, movies, etc...they started making music together because they weren't hearing that music which they loved on the radio.

It was also an almost direct reaction to what had become overblown and pompous progressive rock, singer-songwriter type material that started to get more and more "safe" as the early 70's went forward, and a general sense that rock music may be forgetting that joyous feeling I mentioned earlier of strumming an A power chord at full volume and having something melodic on top. And lyrics that did not have to mention knights, hobbits, and fucking mysticism and wizards or other similar topics in order to get released.

I think the Ramones basically went back to 1961-63 and stripped it down even more to the bare bones essentials, along with a turbo-charge to the tempo overall, and began to rock out on their terms.

Regarding the vocal phrasing and harmonies and all that: The Ramones live were Joey on all the leads and little interjections from Dee Dee. That's it, the other two Ramones didn't sing. Listen to the earlier live recordings of Rockaway Beach, Dee Dee barely sings anything as a backing vocalist, surely no harmony.

But that lines up with the stripped down ethos which the Ramones lived by. It worked. The energy or focus was not solely in the melody or lead vocal, it was the overall sound and group energy which drove them. I'd argue the songs were the vehicles for the Ramones, as utilitarian as the little wooden spoons they used to give out with cups of ice cream. The focus was the ice cream itself, the spoon was something you'd use for a few minutes and discard. That's why a Ramones concert had an incredible number of song titles in the setlist...they played so many, so fast, that most clocked in at 2 minutes or less.

It's not like the live Grateful Dead or even the Beach Boys or Pearl Jam, Phish, Springsteen, etc where fans would discuss the merits of "Eyes Of The World" from JFK Stadium versus Winterland and all that. It wasn't the focus, of the band or the audience.

That, too, would lessen the importance of precision phrasing and delivery of vocal melodies with Joey Ramone...it wasn't necessary nor was it a part of their style to be as focused as the early Beach Boys on those musical elements. The gist of the Ramones was the overall energy and effect on the audiences, not the technicalities of the individual musical elements.


PS - If anyone doubts the influence of the Beach Boys on the Ramones...What I've actually done in lesson plans in the past was play the three most familiar versions of "Do You Wanna Dance", Bobby Freeman, Beach Boys, Ramones...and listen to how closely the Ramones modeled their version on the Beach Boys, even Dennis' vocal delivery. That is proof, along other examples that aren't covers, of how much the Ramones loved and took cues from those earlier 60's Beach Boys records. What Brian did with Do You Wanna Dance was shed all the pseudo-Latin elements of Freeman's original hit and streamline the overall pulse and groove into that straight 8th, rock and roll machine-like rhythm section pulsing under that track, and also streamline some of Freeman's melody and vocal phrasing/delivery into something Dennis could sing and deliver with less ornamentation and detail. More rock and roll, less technical delivery.

It's the template of the Ramones, minus of course the layers of Wall Of Sound. Strip it down to the basics of a rock and roll song.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike working on yet another new album on: May 30, 2019, 11:45:28 AM
What stands out to me is how Mike with the Beach Boys especially during the earlier years up to 1964-65 was part of the direct link to what became the sound of the Ramones in the 70's. Watch live clips of the BB's doing "Papa Ooo Mow Mow", watch them on the TAMI Show, listen to other live tracks from 64...*That* is a major part of the sound that became the Ramones. Listen to Dennis - especially live - just playing the sh*t out of his drums. That, right there, is pure rock-and-roll, pure energy, the proverbial ticking time bomb of a beat that threatens to explode at any second, and it's the driving force. Yet it is a simple, straight 8th rock and roll beat...rock and roll stripped down to the bare essentials and played by young guys like Dennis who would go balls-to-the-wall and play the sh*t out of the songs.

Then there are Mike's vocals, again check out the earliest record they cut in a studio, "Surfin'", seek out a rip of the Candix 45. It's basic, stripped down rock and roll, and Mike's lead vocal is delivered with that "x factor" of an attitude and a drive that overdrives and distorts his microphone...and the effect is essentially that same attitude and undefinable drive that ended up appearing again on Ramones records and live shows.  Listen to "Papa Ooo Mow Mow" on the live versions from the 60's which we do have available, and consider how many nights went unrecorded and are lost to time when Mike or Dennis may have kicked off the tune a little too fast, maybe the adrenaline combined with a wild audience kicked in and they just played all out...And *that*, right there, was the same electricity that The Ramones would tap into and amplify even more at their live shows.

I hear so much of Dennis Wilson, early-to-mid-60's, in Tommy Ramone's drumming. That all-out, muscular, straight-8th bashing of the drums that was the hot-rodded engine driving the band. The Ramones stripped everything down to its basics when they played live. No long guitar solos if there was a solo at all, basic bass patterns, straightforward rock and roll drumming, but on top were great melodies and the whole package was delivered with an attitude that cannot be defined in words...but you know it when you see it and hear it.

Watch TAMI Show or Papa Ooo Mow Mow from "Lost Concert"...Dennis has it. Listen to Mike's vocals on the original "Surfin'" 45, and Mike doing Papa Ooo Mow Mow live (or on the Party album)...Mike has it.

Then watch some original Ramones concert footage, when Tommy Ramone was still the drummer, 1978 and earlier...They're doing a lot of what the Beach Boys were doing live in 63-64, only amped up and cranked up...and stripped down to pure rock and roll even more. It can be glorious in its energy, it can be like watching a trainwreck about to happen...but it's rock and roll.


So here is Mike in 2019 dropping a cover of Rockaway Beach. He was part of the original - OG - group of young guys who inspired the Ramones to do what they ended up doing.

What I don't understand is, if Mike is going to cover the Ramones, or other similar songs and artists, why doesn't he embrace some of that same attitude which practically gave birth to all the later sounds which the Ramones and others refined and turbo-charged, instead of trying to make a "clean" record out of a song like Rockaway Beach? I can't express how many times I wish the Beach Boys in general had cut loose, gone all-out, balls-to-the-wall and played rock and roll...and captured it on a recording somehow in these later years. They were the forefathers of those sounds, yet we get clean and almost sterile records like Rockaway Beach when the songs are screaming for that kind of energy we see from Dennis at TAMI and hear from Mike on Surfin'.

But alas, and of course, Dennis is gone and Mike is no longer a young man. None of them are, so does that mean the pure abandon and pure joy of playing rock and roll too loud, too fast, and experiencing the sheer joy of plugging in an electric guitar, turning it up to 10, and letting rip on an A power chord is gone too?

I hope not. But Mike's new single release doesn't give much hope, if any hope at all, that we'll see what pure fun in rock and roll really is from some of the originators, and how it's done. Maybe it truly is a young man's game.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike working on yet another new album on: May 30, 2019, 11:19:25 AM
Keep a tally of how many replies use the term "fun" when describing this track. Seems to be a trend surrounding Mike releasing covers over the past few years.  Wink
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike working on yet another new album on: May 29, 2019, 10:36:34 AM
Of course, what else is new? Was anything less than that expected from Mike? Mike has an album "12 Sides Of Summer", and we get a BEACH BOYS 12 SIDES OF SUMMER concert promotion complete with that Dean Torrence logo. Even though it's not the Beach Boys. BRI doesn't seem to give a sh*t, unless they just don't want to get mixed up in a legal shitstorm with Mike. If fans paying to see the Beach Boys won't mind Mike plugging his own solo efforts as The Beach Boys and playing his own stuff at concerts rather than actual Beach Boys songs, what else is there to say. It's ridiculous but so is a lot of what Mike pulls.

And this is coming from a guy who sued his cousin in 2005 over what he termed "brand confusion" or something like that. Unbelievable hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy is the nicer way to describe it.

Adding more to the blurring of Mike Love solo versus The Beach Boys...There are promotions where people buying Beach Boys tickets online will get a free digital download of Mike's solo album "12 Sides of Summer". Mike "doin' it again" in terms of piggybacking his solo stuff onto the Beach Boys name.

And the tour in some places is indeed being promoted under the same name as Mike's solo album, like this one:

https://www.facebook.com/events/bold-point-park/the-beach-boys-12-sides-of-summer/621232551634436/

Again, I guess BRI either doesn't care or doesn't want to get into a scrum with Mike's lawyers. But it is hypocrisy considering Mike's previous legal actions, and a cheap way to use an iconic band name to self promote. IMO.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike working on yet another new album on: May 29, 2019, 10:18:51 AM
Of course, what else is new? Was anything less than that expected from Mike? Mike has an album "12 Sides Of Summer", and we get a BEACH BOYS 12 SIDES OF SUMMER concert promotion complete with that Dean Torrence logo. Even though it's not the Beach Boys. BRI doesn't seem to give a sh*t, unless they just don't want to get mixed up in a legal shitstorm with Mike. If fans paying to see the Beach Boys won't mind Mike plugging his own solo efforts as The Beach Boys and playing his own stuff at concerts rather than actual Beach Boys songs, what else is there to say. It's ridiculous but so is a lot of what Mike pulls.
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