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660528 Posts in 26464 Topics by 3770 Members - Latest Member: robertscool August 07, 2020, 04:20:23 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: Today at 01:18:48 PM
Beyond my frustrations with the "move along, nothing to see here, nobody knows, etc" mindset that I mentioned here earlier, what amazes me about this box set issue is to see just how many artists have been releasing deluxe box sets in 2020, and how many more are in the pipeline for release in the coming months. And a lot of these are artists who are much more of a niche market and a smaller audience than the Beach Boys.

It's confusing to see an issue of "demand" being mentioned regarding the BB's box set while artists who would sell far, far less sets do not seem to have a problem releasing these sets to their fans. And it's not like these other, more niche deluxe sets are CDR's packed in white window envelopes or something.

Further on that point, as we had cartoons and memes circulating back in early May about people stuck at home "finishing Netflix" and similar jokes about running out of things to do during this mess, what better time would there be when the audience for home entertainment and home media is currently as large as I've ever seen it since the dawn of the internet.

Again, I just don't understand what the resistance is with this one. I cannot understand why the fans should need to convince someone or something within the band that fans will indeed spend money to buy this set if it's released. Absurd.

Maybe being too demanding isn't the solution here

I don't think it's demanding when fans are telling the corporation they'd buy their product, and would do so enthusiastically. That's what I really cannot understand, most companies spend most of their energy and resources trying to convince people to buy their products, and here is a case where from most indications someone either in the band or within BRI as a corporation is stonewalling the release of this product. And there's not even a word uttered as to even a release date.

Stripping away that this is the Beach Boys for a second, does that make any sense in terms of Business 101, supply and demand?

And also, the set is completed and sitting on a shelf. It's not like a fantasy project fans are saying they'd like to see...this is a product which is 2+ years in the making, completed, and is being held back.

Ridiculous to not even hear a word about it.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: Today at 11:56:38 AM
Beyond my frustrations with the "move along, nothing to see here, nobody knows, etc" mindset that I mentioned here earlier, what amazes me about this box set issue is to see just how many artists have been releasing deluxe box sets in 2020, and how many more are in the pipeline for release in the coming months. And a lot of these are artists who are much more of a niche market and a smaller audience than the Beach Boys.

It's confusing to see an issue of "demand" being mentioned regarding the BB's box set while artists who would sell far, far less sets do not seem to have a problem releasing these sets to their fans. And it's not like these other, more niche deluxe sets are CDR's packed in white window envelopes or something.

Further on that point, as we had cartoons and memes circulating back in early May about people stuck at home "finishing Netflix" and similar jokes about running out of things to do during this mess, what better time would there be when the audience for home entertainment and home media is currently as large as I've ever seen it since the dawn of the internet.

Again, I just don't understand what the resistance is with this one. I cannot understand why the fans should need to convince someone or something within the band that fans will indeed spend money to buy this set if it's released. Absurd.
3  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smilers Who Make Music / Re: The Majik Rain Orchestra - cosmic Frequency on: Yesterday at 05:18:52 PM
I'm only a few tracks in so far, and I'm stunned. Amazing work! The production and arranging are top notch, as is the songwriting and especially the chord choices. You've captured something in the texture of this music that Brian had in his own, a texture which others can try to use the same orchestrations and sounds but not get the cohesive whole. Very, very nice.

Whether intentional or not, the chord changes (one sequence in particular), descending lines, and rolling triplet/shuffle feel in "Someone Like You" reminded me of the great lost Monkees track "All Of Your Toys", and anything or anyone who does that gets my highest compliments.  Smiley
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Guitar analysis episode - In the Back of My Mind on: August 05, 2020, 06:35:46 PM
Wow, I'm so sorry to hear about all this happening and I hope things get better all around! I was wondering why there haven't been any new entries recently.

And on that I'll say that it can be comforting to know how many people you make happy with these videos, how much education you provide, and how many smiles are on their faces after hearing something they had never heard before in a song which they have known for decades. Often times the irony of being a musician (and artist in general) is how much sheer joy we can bring to people while having our own issues both to deal with and also shoulder those which are on our minds and weighing on our souls heavily as we're busy creating and sharing for others. You mentioned very accurately the appeal of Brian Wilson for a lot of us, and it never ceases to amaze me how a man with that much turmoil in and around himself could create such beautiful and uplifting music to make people happy...and I think trying to understand that about him helps us to understand ourselves too. And it makes the music that much more of a healing force, an elixir, an escape...whatever it can be labeled beyond the sheer joy of listening to true art through music.

This video made me want to go back to the song and listen again, and of course await the next entries in this series. And in doing so, I know it will put a smile on my face during some very unsettled times for me as well...so thank you for that! Eagerly awaiting the next installment.

Great how you sussed out those jazz chords - Not your standard I IV V surf rock by any means  Smiley
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2020 Tour Thread on: August 05, 2020, 05:48:53 PM
All I have to say about this is...how fucking dare you endanger the safety of your fans in a situation like this. A man has the right to learn a living, but there are better and safer ways to do it.

I'm all for mitigating danger, but unless Mike Love kidnapped those people and forced them to be there, the band endangered no one. Those people chose to buy tickets and attend the show on their own, free will.
Yes, but the people that are having to shop in grocery stores with them or serving food to them days after the concert, when the concert attendees are potentially spreading the disease, aren't as lucky. Many of the people that the attendees will interact with and infect are working out of necessity and don't have the option of staying at home.

I agreed, and I'm not saying that you are, but attempts to vilify the band for the attendees' decision to go to the concert are nothing short of reaching for a reason to hate Mike Love.
Getting sick could happen while at a restaurant just as easy as at a concert.
As someone who works at a grocery store, I am someone who has to work out of necessity. And, honestly, I don't blame people for wanting to go out and enjoy themselves after being couped up for so long.

Replying to the section in bold: So questioning and disagreeing with Mike's decision to play these two shows after all the other scheduled acts of any note backed out is reaching for a reason to hate Mike Love? How does that add up? And the overwhelming majority of other venues and events who had booked Mike to play have canceled or postponed too, including now the Ohio Balloon Fest which up to last week was moving forward as scheduled until determining the health risk was too great to hold the event. We're told Mike is in full control of his own decisions and his career, we're told he's a shrewd businessman and runs his touring operation "lean and mean", and we were also told that Mike's reason behind not wanting to do more with C50 was because the tour was losing money.

Yet we have in the past week Mike playing two shows for a combined total of less than 2,500 people under circumstances that could be a health risk for all involved, and having to travel and pay for that travel at quite a distance...at shows where obviously making a profit wasn't possible under normal ticket prices and the eventual crowd size. Money was lost across the board, let's face it, by both venue and performer, so why if Mike was worried about tours being profitable in the past are these two random gigs an exception?

I question both Mike and these venues for the decisions to go on with the shows in light of the health crisis, but in terms of the band agreeing to perform we're told it is always Mike's call as the final word. So is that finding a reason to hate Mike Love, or is it fans questioning or disagreeing with the guy who makes the decision about his decision to proceed with events like this?
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2020 Tour Thread on: August 05, 2020, 04:42:22 PM
From the Sunday 8/2 show. Notably, this local paper chose not to take a front-facing photo of the audience, which I find odd and suspicious. We get a few shots of band members with masks, one shot of a few audience members with masks, and then a shot from the back of the audience once the venue is full, where it's impossible to tell who's wearing a mask (although you can tell a few at least have their masks pulled down).

I noticed that too, as soon as I saw and posted the link to this same article when it first came out. It felt like they went out of their way to show people wearing masks, yet the social media posts showing pictures of the same concert show a much different story, with the supposed "enforcement" of the mask-wearing not being enforced too well.

That's called selective reporting and selective editing in my book. The question yet again becomes "why?" if the posted reports of the same event vary to that degree. Politics? Who knows.

Back to the old points again: Tally it up, and Mike with his band traveled that far to play a total of two shows for a total of less than 2,500 fans (or even less, who knows). Was it worth it?
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Could Brian write music in the style of 'Pet Sounds' after Pet Sounds? on: August 05, 2020, 04:29:42 PM
Aren't You Glad, I disagree, it's one of the catchiest songs of that era and the arrangement had all of the elements that could have made it a hit had it been released as a single for late '67 going into '68. Horn bands were on the radio and would be so even more in the next year or two, and "Darlin" was pretty standard on the setlists of working bands with a horn section like Chicago Transit Authority who were playing the current hits in clubs at that time.

Studio version aside, listen to the live version of Aren't You Glad on the "Live In London" album, and it's pure energy and magic, which is testament to the song itself alongside how tight that band was at that time. It could have been a hit record if it were released the right way.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: August 05, 2020, 04:22:22 PM
It's amazing to me that in some circles there seems to be either a denial or a complete deflection of the facts which were laid out for all to read in this discussion. "Move along, nothing more to see here, no one knows, etc..." doesn't work in a situation like this where something is reported as completed and sitting dormant on the shelf.

If it takes emails and messages and whatnot to the band members to change the status of this release, that suggests it's a band member issue. For whatever messed up reason that may be. But then fans should start emailing and messaging and flooding them with comments asking for it to come out. That sounds ridiculous to me, but whatever.

Apart from what's already been listed, how about some Sunflower studio session tapes and maybe more versions/mixes of Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again, heck that alone would be worth the price of admission. Same with Til I Die, let people hear the genius of this stuff before it's too late.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions on: August 05, 2020, 04:13:28 PM

And add in all the chestnuts like those who insisted Brian was "forced" by either the label or his "handlers" to work with his guest musicians, with some saying he had no clue who those artists even were...Then the truth came out that in fact Brian's kids had suggested and even played those artists for their dad in a few cases, and in one specific case an artist who some of these 'experts' claimed Brian didn't know had actually babysat Brian's kids years ago. Little things like that in the name of denigrating a new album, I don't get it.


Just out of curiosity, which of the guest vocalists was it that had babysat Brian's kids? (I'm guessing it was Zooey?)

Yes, that was Zooey! Besides Zooey and M Ward (She & Him) being massive Brian Wilson fans who have covered his songs, Zooey's family history with Brian goes back to her dad Caleb being involved with the original promo film for Good Vibrations in 1966.

So all of those idiots who were suggesting Brian didn't know who Zooey was and vice versa, suggesting Zooey (and M Ward) weren't real musicians, suggesting Brian was "forced" to work with them...they were and are idiots who didn't know enough about the situation to make such comments even before the album came out. And when it did come out, the song itself is a straight-up, dead-on tribute to the Bossa Nova sounds of Astrud Gilberto, and Zooey did a terrific job matching her vocal style, yet some who must have cotton stuffed in their ears and no knowledge of 60's Bossa Nova tried to suggest it sounded like 1930's cabaret singers or something absurd.

I love the song, and I think She & Him (and Zooey herself) are very cool and I dig their music a lot. I was happy to see them work with Brian.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2020 Tour Thread on: August 03, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Looks like the mask-wearing requirement wasn't being enforced across the board, at least according to this one Twitter user:
https://twitter.com/StineJosh/status/1290251555585703936
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2020 Tour Thread on: August 03, 2020, 11:23:32 AM
Mike played the Pinewood Bowl in Lincoln Nebraska last night. Here are a few articles (with photos) about the gig:

(scroll down this page for more photos)
https://journalstar.com/entertainment/music/good-vibrations-from-a-distance-concertgoers-play-it-safe-at-beach-boys-pinewood-bowl-show/article_b907277c-3763-513b-8061-00cb0f808648.html

Local news report:
https://www.1011now.com/2020/08/03/pinewood-bowl-hosts-the-beach-boys/

And here is a MassLive news report about the band still planning to play the only show not cancelled out of a six-show New England run in September:
https://www.masslive.com/music/2020/08/beach-boys-holding-on-to-connecticut-concert-date.html

Here is video of the Aug. 2 Pinewood concert, with a few more clips upped at that YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNztu8jOuIw


12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: August 03, 2020, 08:44:49 AM
Since many have apparently not paid attention to many details revealed in this thread, especially from Howie, and continue to speculate that the release is delayed and possibly cancelled due to liner notes, etc., perhaps Billy or HeyJude could start a new thread on the status of this set.  Iíd try myself but donít want to screw it up.

Speaking as a moderator here, I think having one dedicated thread as we do now is the best way for people to easily find updates. When there are multiple threads things get lost in the shuffle.

What I will do is pin this thread so it appears at the top of the discussions so it's easy to find.

Any other requests or concerns please drop me a line.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: August 01, 2020, 09:57:36 AM
Those are great points - It was the enthusiasm and dedications of the fans that made Smile happen, and I don't think anyone would suggest that the fans and the artists are worse off that we got Brian's completed work both live and on disc alongside the sessions box with the original material.

Important to note how there was a time not too long ago when the idea of fans getting either a completed Smile, an official Capitol release, AND Brian Wilson touring and playing live shows would have been considered pure fantasy, if not impossible. I think the requests, enthusiasm, and support from the fans helped make the impossible a reality.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: August 01, 2020, 08:22:21 AM
Not trying to bog down, just saying that agreeing to release is part of their job. One of the biggest parts. I also feel like it's none of our business. Sure we can have opinions and be frustrated, but to take it out on band members seems extreme to me. Even if it is Mike, which some are implying they believe, who are we to tell him how to manage his business? Is he asking for our guidance/opinions? I feel like he has every right to question stuff like this and help position it.

Just playing devil's advocate, on the question who are we to tell Mike how to manage his business: Fans especially online have been trying to tell Brian how to manage his business especially since he went solo in 1998. Everything from telling him he should quit touring and retire since his very first solo tour, to who he should or shouldn't work with on his music and how it should sound, up to suggesting he was being controlled and drugged by "handlers", and so many other facets of his "business". So if they can put the business and career decisions and personal life under the microscope as some did (and still do) with these other band members, isn't it par for the course and fair game across the board?

Again devil's advocate, but in this case the fans are the ones who put these guys into mansions and wealth through buying their product for 60 years, I think like fans who buy a sports team's tickets and merchandise and cable TV packages with their money, they should be able to offer opinions on that team.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2020 Tour Thread on: July 31, 2020, 09:23:22 PM
Those photos remind me of the amusement park gig where Spinal Tap played "Jazz Odyssey".
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: July 31, 2020, 09:22:05 PM
Now maybe I'm simplifying this too much, but what if the delay is something as simple as Mike holding back the release until the pandemic is over.
   He can tour then with the release to support? As a man fairly competent in business, could an argument be made that the Beach Boys would make their return tour from the pandemic a Feel Flows Tour?

kind of makes sense considering all the work already done...

 Smiley Smiley

A few factors might disagree with that, although knowing Mike and his touring, who knows.

First - When perhaps the most important archival release since the full box set and Smile Sessions came out, Sunshine Tomorrow, Mike and his band made several nationally televised appearances which included interviews. I believe the biggest was the Washington DC show with John Stamos and Mark McGrath. Instead of giving the release a plug on TV that would reach millions who probably didn't know Sunshine Tomorrow existed yet would be interested, Mike instead focused his marketing and PR and lip service on his horrid Do It Again remake.

He can do whatever he wants, but for f**ks sake, he could have promoted a set with real, archival, mostly unheard Beach Boys music. He did not. Instead he promoted his band and his projects.

Why would he be expected to promote or even tour behind this set when he's done little or nothing to give the previous set a boost, and instead choosing to use his tours and appearances to hawk his own releases? He even found a way to give a copy of "Summer In Paradise" to everyone who bought the GV box set on QVC! Who knows, maybe he's cooked up a way to ride this one to some profits.  Grin

And that leads to #2: I doubt 80-90% of the crowds who go to see Mike's shows would be potential buyers for this set. It's a different focus, different demographic, different kind of fan. Greatest hits versus deep cuts and rarities in a deluxe box. This box set doesn't need Mike's touring to find its audience, the audience for this box is already seeking it out if not demanding it, and being told in Monty Python "Cheese Shop" style..."Sorry, we're fresh out." Or for US viewers, in Seinfeld style..."No soup for you! Next!".

And what I don't understand is Mike would get a lot of cred, a lot of praise, and a lot of positive vibes from a set like this because he did do some fantastic work with the band during this period. Totally separate from what he does now.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2020 Tour Thread on: July 31, 2020, 02:21:41 PM
Yes, they played the Ozark Empire Fair last night.

It can't link directly, but go to the area's TV news station KY3 on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/ky3news/

Scroll down until you see the story, complete with the usual commentary and debates.

Strangely enough, on the main KY3 website, there was a teaser link to photos of the concert, which is still the Facebook link too. When you click on the story, there's nothing there except the Page Not Found error image. I wonder if someone took it down or ordered it taken down, related to mask-wearing, larger gatherings, distancing...who knows. But the photos are not there.

One photo is available from an attendee: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10217832331462349&set=p.10217832331462349&type=3&theater



I hope everyone stays safe and healthy who was involved in this.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: July 30, 2020, 12:05:54 PM
Not to get too far off topic, but since the issue of the Love & Mercy music was raised...There was a situation where BRI and all members could make money on mechanical rights, royalties, etc from both the film and soundtrack and subsequent releases on DVD and digital...without lifting a finger, without doing any work, without playing under a tent in Cape Cod in the dead of summer and with 100% humidity...and Mike still objected.

So using the example of Carl's interests siding with Mike's touring issues on the table of BRI, the Love & Mercy soundtrack deal was a case where a "yes" vote from that entity was a recurring payday without doing anything, including for Mike who had ownership interests in some of those songs which would pay out in perpetuity, and yet Mike objected. So the yes vote from the Wilsons was a similar no-brainer unless Mike was able to convince them somehow to vote no based on Mike's personal hang-ups or whatever justification he was using, and obviously they didn't go with Mike for what seems to be a rare 3 to 1 vote.

As I explained earlier the PS Sessions box was indeed when Carl was still alive, but from all accounts it was Mike's and Mike's alone objections to the liner notes that caused it to be pulled and revised, which delayed the original release plans. So that seems to be a case of BRI originally giving it a yes vote, the project going through and being ready for release, and someone (Mike in this case) either complaining, petitioning, or taking/threatening legal action against the label and other related interests after earlier agreeing to the project through the band's corporate vote. That again is the sense of deja vu some of us had when all of this happened with the Feel Flows set. That's why some of us are wondering what the hell happened.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: July 30, 2020, 10:51:49 AM
But as I said before, BRI is 4 parties making the decisions, and since he was involved in creating the music contained on the box set, I'd say Bruce's opinion at least gets heard in any decision making process. So there's Al and Bruce both teasing the set publicly, we don't know where Carl's estate stands on this but factor in that their father was essentially the de facto producer and leader for a lot of these sessions and his talents and contributions would be on full display on such a set, we have Brian who I don't believe has ever blocked an archival set except in the cases where band members got to choose specific tracks, and then there's Mike who has a history of putting up objections and roadblocks on archival projects.

So you're suggesting fans should just write emails or social media posts to every band member, including Bruce, when some of those band members have actively supported and teased this set, without knowing either the who or the why of the situation? As I said before, fans would send Al hundreds of emails and Al would be saying "But I want this to come out too!" just as an example.

It feels like the energy is being deflected here, in light of getting more information, from actually targeting the reason why a set which is ready to go and appealing to that person or persons blocking it to a general fan response of "I want this, please release it!". Fans are not unaware of what goes on within this band, and why certain things have happened and continue to happen. If the notion is to take some of the heat off and just become stereotypical fans saying "I want this", it's deflecting the entire situation specific to this box set. If this set were not completed after 2+ years of hard work and dedication, that would be acceptable. But here we have something concrete that actually exists, and we're being told it's been shelved indefinitely...and we would like to know why it got shelved and who put the kibosh on it so that person or persons can hear what the fans who are ready and willing to drop over 100 bucks on it think.
Am I incorrect, or doesn't Carl's estate usually side with Mike?

You are correct based on what I've heard. However, I don't know if in the case of an archival Beach Boys release involving a label it comes down to a majority vote, or if each party has a single-vote veto kind of situation as far as the label is concerned where one "no" vote is enough to block something even after the full BRI membership signed on to support it. I'm going back to the PS Sessions example where by almost all accounts it was solely Mike's objection to the liner notes that blocked the original release plans for that set. I'm trying to make sense of it, but in that case (and seemingly the case with the Feel Flows box project) you had all members originally sign on and participate in the project up to setting a release date, but prior to the actual release an objection was raised and it was pulled.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: July 30, 2020, 10:29:00 AM
But as I said before, BRI is 4 parties making the decisions, and since he was involved in creating the music contained on the box set, I'd say Bruce's opinion at least gets heard in any decision making process. So there's Al and Bruce both teasing the set publicly, we don't know where Carl's estate stands on this but factor in that their father was essentially the de facto producer and leader for a lot of these sessions and his talents and contributions would be on full display on such a set, we have Brian who I don't believe has ever blocked an archival set except in the cases where band members got to choose specific tracks, and then there's Mike who has a history of putting up objections and roadblocks on archival projects.

So you're suggesting fans should just write emails or social media posts to every band member, including Bruce, when some of those band members have actively supported and teased this set, without knowing either the who or the why of the situation? As I said before, fans would send Al hundreds of emails and Al would be saying "But I want this to come out too!" just as an example.

It feels like the energy is being deflected here, in light of getting more information, from actually targeting the reason why a set which is ready to go and appealing to that person or persons blocking it to a general fan response of "I want this, please release it!". Fans are not unaware of what goes on within this band, and why certain things have happened and continue to happen. If the notion is to take some of the heat off and just become stereotypical fans saying "I want this", it's deflecting the entire situation specific to this box set. If this set were not completed after 2+ years of hard work and dedication, that would be acceptable. But here we have something concrete that actually exists, and we're being told it's been shelved indefinitely...and we would like to know why it got shelved and who put the kibosh on it so that person or persons can hear what the fans who are ready and willing to drop over 100 bucks on it think.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: July 30, 2020, 09:44:28 AM
Just a bit of advice that may help fans focus on things worth focusing on with this set:

It's perhaps worth looking less at *why* the box is being delayed and more at the fact that it *is* being delayed, delayed to the point where it's not on the release schedule and it's distressingly unclear whether it'll come out at all.

I don't really know how much more detail can be offered on the specifics of why the hold-up is happening. I used the "Pet Sounds Sessions" example awhile back as an example of how something *unrelated* to the contents of a set might cause someone to hold a set up. This was an imperfect example of course, because issues with liner notes is sort of "content", but I also specifically mentioned that nothing like that liner notes situation was the case with "Feel Flows."

I don't think it's out of line to suggest that the content of this set is not what's causing a party or parties to hold this up. The band knew/knows the set was being compiled, and work on the set was finished. Remember, this sets involves handling tapes owned by BRI. People can't touch the tapes let alone compile a boxed set from those tapes unless BRI allows that work to take place. Further, there is plenty of precedent for the compilers on these sets removing tracks if they're vetoed by any band member. These sets don't live or die on one particular track.

I also used a (seemingly) goofier example in a previous post where we envision a band where a member or two consults a mystical numerologist who tells them no release date right now is advisable. Again, nothing like *that* specifically is going on with "Feel Flows", but the purpose of that example is to envision a case where a set is being held up for reasons unrelated to the content of the boxed set. As I've said numerous times now, this is both extra frustrating but also more reason for us to lobby for this set to be put on the schedule, because in this scenario nobody has an issue with the content (whether we're talking the actual music, or the liners, or the cover art, packaging, etc.).

So, again, it might be worthwhile to look not at *why* the set hasn't been calendared, and more at the simple fact that it hasn't been and may not, and they we've got to convince the band to do a great thing *for the band* and also for the fans.

Respectfully saying this in reply, but that's like being invited to a wedding where the seats are filled with family and friends, the groom is standing with the preacher and wedding party waiting for the bride to walk down the aisle, the wedding march is playing on the organ, and the bride never shows up. The first thing everyone is going to ask is "What happened?".

So fans should envision a scenario where it's been suggested it's not the label, it's not the actual content, yet the resistance is coming from within the band who had all signed off on the project, given interviews, and in a few cases teased the set publicly. Yet content isn't the issue.

So fans are left - according to the above scenarios - assuming someone in the band just decided to block the whole thing for the time being, for some reason other than what's actually on the completed box set? And we're supposed to convince the bride...I mean, the one(s) holding this back...to walk down the aisle without knowing why it didn't happen?

In order to convince someone to rethink a decision, it has to be known why they made the decision in the first place.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: July 29, 2020, 11:29:29 PM
We have historical precedent for historic/archival box sets being delayed, if that is indeed what could possibly happen here.

I'm sure I don't need to state the obvious but NOTHING HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED...

That said, in 1996, THE PET SOUNDS SESSIONS was to be released in the fall of that calendar year. How did I know? I read it in Ice Magazine one day in the CD shop I worked at.

In reality Ė it was delayed over 12 months and finally dropped in November, 1997.

Better late than never.

Yes, that's right.  The PS box was on release calendar for '96... and then turned up a full year later.  The scuttlebutt at the time was the delay was due to unhappiness with the liner notes and their author David Leaf on the part certain member(s).

When you think about, it was pretty miraculous that the Smile box more or less came out when it was scheduled to in 2011.  For some reason, the stars lined up for that one, very atypical in BB history, post-1966.  Of course, that release itself was only after a half-dozen or so false starts spread out over 44 years.



It was more than scuttlebutt - Mike Love had issues with the original PS box liner notes, he complained, they pulled the set from the release schedule, and the main result of the whole thing was Mike got to write his own commentary which they included in the revised package. If I'm wrong on any of that, please advise.

Maybe the scuttlebutt you're referring to was a rumor that an advance copy of the booklet was accidentally sent to Mike that wasn't supposed to be sent, he saw it and complained, and that's what kicked off the whole delay issue. Believe it or not, but that was the scuttlebutt. I also remember reading about both a PS Sessions and a Smile Sessions set in the pipeline in what I think was Tower Records' "Pulse" magazine, and I'm sure it was '95 or maybe even '94 because I was living a half-block away from Tower in Boston at the time and remember being ecstatic over that little news blurb when I brought that new issue home.

If you guys missed it, this was the deja vu a few of us were discussing a few pages back. As in, there have been precedents on this happening in the past with archival releases and releases in general, and again believe it or not, most of the hang-ups seemingly came from Mike Love.

And the real miracle, and this coming from people who were involved in the set at the time, was how that 45 minutes of Smile ever got released on the GV box set. Band members had veto power of what tracks to include, apparently Brian exercised his veto on "Let Him Run Wild" which is why that is a glaring omission from the GV box (Brian didn't like his vocal), and from what was told later a lot of convincing had to be done on several fronts to include as much of Smile as they did. And it turned out to be one of the best decisions they could have made, especially at that time and on that set. But I don't think any issues among band members delayed or even scuttled that release at any point. Again, I could be wrong.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: July 29, 2020, 04:10:32 PM
All in all, I feel bad for everyone who was anticipating it, and those who had worked so hard to bring it to the public. Only thing I can say is petition, petition, petition. Swamp the social media of each person (read:Mike) who might be standing in the way and make your voices heard. Only thing I can think of

That's what I've been saying too, we have a project which is complete, which has been ready, and someone or something is holding it up for who knows what reasons. Flood the involved parties with emails, messages, etc. Voices of consumers carry much more weight today than people realize. Money talks, and the people holding that money ready to spend get heard.

And consumers also know when they're being rooked.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: July 29, 2020, 04:08:19 PM
Iíll buy the beer but you can only get within 6 feet of it!

Sold! I'll go in on a case of Singlecut "Hop Sounds", the Pet Sounds beer lol
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: July 29, 2020, 03:59:11 PM
My head hurts...

I need a beer.

No, make that a keg.
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