I'm not sure where you guys are suddenly saying the date of the show is 1965, but it premiered on October 5th, 1964 (and continued into 1965)

Regarding the sound of the theme, it may very well have a brief from Jack Marshall to the group that they wanted a Beach Boys/Surf sound, which is precisely what was delivered.

And regarding the acetate, it's possible the "long version" is the 47-second version used as the actual theme and that the "short" version is a 15- or 30-second excerpt/edit for use in broadcast promos for the series.

I'd expected that he mentions "Wilson", by Dennis' son. But maye he hasn't been there yet? Is it in LA anyway?

Wilson's Food and Wine is in Culver City on L.A's Westside, so it's not too far for Brian to go check out at all.  But looking at the menu it may be too foo foo for his tastes.

But they DO have tacos!   

Actually both youtube videos are the Beach Boys (go back and listen, Eric).

It's also appeared on some shoewear, but on the TV's Greatest Hits Vol. 4 it's in pristine mono from the production master that was originally supplied to Kayro-Vue (and is now controlled by NBC-Universal).  Of course another Kayro-Vue production, "The Munsters," also featuring a hip teen-oriented theme written by Jack Marshall (who also wrote "Karen"), premiered the same year (1964).

There are 2 versions of She Know me and When I Grow Up in the box set and ITunes does not identify the stero mix versions.  Do you know the track numbers in iTunes of the stereo mixes?  Thx.

itunes has the collection set us as the individual discs are in the actual CD set - the two original mono 45 mixes followed by the alternate versions (which are original stereo versions, stereo remixes, backing tracks, etc).  The stereo remixes of of WIGU and SKMTW are therefore tracks 3 and 4.

It was a rip off of a 45. Not sure if that version made it to CD though. Anyone care to answer that question?

In regards to the 7" Vinyl Version of "Cuddle Up".  I believe it's a slightly 'shorter' mix than the LP version and also has a slight remix. 

It's available on the Brother Reprise Single REP 1091 which is "You Need A Mess of Help To Stand Alone" b/w "Cuddle Up".   There's STOCK and PROMO copies.  If you' d to find one..check EBAY from time to time.  Doesn't appear that this 7" version is available on CD at this point.

Dogbone

The 7" of "Cuddle Up" is indeed unavailable on CD, but's it's such a slight remix that unless you're an uber geek you really don't need it.

The single lists the timing as 5:20, but it's actually the same 5:29 length as the LP mix.

Also, promos of REP 1091 have both sides in mono, whereas the stock issue has both sides in true stereo (the mono promo version is a foldover of the stereo mix).  But you'd have to have a really good (and really lucky) day of BB vinyl hunting to turn up a copy as they're rare as hen's teeth.  Fortunately the same mix is on Euro copies of the single, and UK and Dutch copies are pretty easy to find (and better pressings too).

Now we have to catalog the Sea of Tunes/Irving Music differences. 

The sale of Sea of Tunes took place about November 1969, but it took Capitol years to correct it on their label copy.  For example, this copy of "California Girls" on the orange label, which came into use around the summer of 1972:



As far as I can tell from what I've seen the changeover to Irving Music on the label itself took place probably at different times for different releases depending on when a new presssing was warranted, but that they all changed over while on the tan "C" Capitol logo label.  Does that sound right?

And then after that we'll have to compile a list on the blue label Starlines of which ones have Stereo, Mono, or neither listed on them.

Hey, I'm still here (just felt very much under the weather over the weekend though I kept up on reading everyone else's posts).

Here's the remaining green swirl and red/white target photos/scans I have.  The two green swirls are both L.A. pressings.  Capitol changed their fonts in 1968, and I believe the "DDD" and "FFF" targets are L.A. pressings with the GV being an East Coast pressing.  The GV is the only one to have the "Subsidiary" text around the rim, so it dates from July 1968 or after (though we know this didn't come out until 12/29/69 anyway), while the other two are pre-July '68.  As far as the black rim printing, it only shows up on the "Subsidiary" labels and may well be different pressing plants using different printers (I live in L.A. and have rarely seen any black text labels around here by any group - not the the BB's - so i'm guessing the black text might be an East Coast pressing):

Speaking of LP lengths.... why only 9 songs? Steamboat isn't that long, ffs. And is always the case, they had plenty of stuff going. Was there a specific reason it's got so little on it?

Standard US practice at the time was for ten songs per LP.  Remember that publishing royalities were treated different in the UK and US.  The UK had a standard amount per LP which was then divided by the number of songs to get the royalty per son, whereas in the US each song is worth a fixed amount, the amount of songs then determining the total royalties due per LP.

The LP proper has nine songs, but when you added the Mt Vernon EP (which was divided into five tracks IIRC), royalties are actually being paid on 14 songs.  Since the LP/EP configuration was a compromise to appease Brian, Reprise probably negotiated a rate reduction on royalites with the group so the amount being paid was the equivalent of ten songs.  Didn't the group also have to absorb the extra costs of manufacturing the EP as well as part of the compromise?

ARE YOU SURE THE RNBW STARLINE HAS 6205 LH/WENDY. THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. THEY ALREADY ISSUED  6259 BA / LH ON THE BROWN SERIES . THERE WASN'T ENOUGH BB SONGS IN THE CATALOGUE TO PICK ANOTHER SONG OTHER THAN LITTLE HONDA.   

Yes, I'm sure.  When I bought the whole set...I came home and started looking and comparing them to the other issues.  I was just as surprised to see the Little Honda/Wendy issue, but it's for real.  Hang tight, and I'll get a scan of it shortly.   I agree though.  They could've issued another song in it's place.  Perhaps "All Summer Long" would've been a good choice.

Well, the original issue of LH (6204) with "Wendy" was a Starline reissue of the two sides that charted off the "Four By The Beach Boys" EP in 1964.  This SHOULD have both songs in their original mono mixes (if someone could verify that, please  )  The 6259 issue brought Capitol 4110 (originally an orange label "new" release promoting SPIRIT OF AMERICA) to the Starline series, and Capitol probably didn't have to produce any new metal parts for this reissue, using the orignal ones from 4110 (and therefore saving money).   I think both sides of this should be stereo (true stereo for LH and Duophonic fake stereo for BA).  Anyone able to verify that one too?

This brings up the fact that there are two single versions of "Barbara Ann" - one on the original 1965 single (which was reissued on Capitol Starline 6132), and a slightly longer fade version on Capitol 4110 (2:11 in length, and reissued as Starline 6259).  Linett's been using the 2:11 version for all his CD's, but Andrew Sandoval used the original shorter version from the 1965 single on the GREATEST HITS VOL. 1 CD.

Oh, and TOKENSURFER, more acetates, please!  Some amazing stuff there!

AGAIN DOING THINGS FROM MEMORY IS NOT ALWAYS AN ACCURATE AFFAIR.  THE SURF'S UP BOOK HAS THE PURPLE NOT STARLINE BUT THE LAST ISSUE OF 5096 5174 5464 5602 COMING OUT IN '78.  AND ONLY CALIFORNIA GIRLS WAS MENTIONED.  I'VE GOT 3 OUT OF 4. THEY ALL HAVE SEA OF TUNES MENTIONED INSTEAD OF IRVING.  IT COULDN'T HAVE TAKEN THAT LONG  TO CHANGE.  ENDLESS SUMMER SPIRIT OF AMERICA ISSUES ON THE PLAIN ORANGE  HAWAII BE TRUE TO YOUR SCHOOL LITTLE HONDA  SHUT DOWN ALL HAVE IRVING  PUB AND THEY CAME OUT FROM 74-75.  SO I CAN'T IMAGINE SEA OF TUNES LASTING UNTIL 78.

I think you're going to find that the publisher listed is the worst indication of the date of the various pressings, although it should give you the order of issue, at least for each individual pressing plant.

Since Starlines were simply reissues to keep the songs available for people who wanted them in 45 RPM format there probably wasn't a whole lot of attention paid to them.  Most seemed to - initially at least - use the same label copy as the yellow/orange swirl originals with the original issue date added.  Any mistakes made - and caught, big distinction there - were probably not correctled until a new print run of labels was needed (and that's providing someone remembered the error by that time).  Even then only one plant might print corrected copies since they all used local printers for their labels.  No record company is going to waste money reprinting new corrected labels for relatively unimportant issues like these unless they absolutely have to, and I seriously doubt Irving Music even knew about the errors.  These most likely flew well under their radar, and as long as they were getting paid...

So, yes, I can see some of the Sea Of Tunes issues running all the way through the series, at least until the beige issues with the "Dome" label, at which time things seem to have been finally sorted out, which carried over to the blue labels which seems to have used the same typesetting with just the label color changed).

As far as the 1974-75 issues associated with ENDLESS SUMMER and SPIRIT OF AMERICA, well, those were treated as "new releases" and were a different story.  Those two albums were major catalog releases, and i'm sure there was research done in those cases to make sure all the credits were in order (and then of course that same info was used on the singles).  That's most likely why those have the right publishers listed.


Oh, and did you mention a "Shut Down" on the orange label?  If you mean Capitol 3924, "Surfin' U.S.A.," that actually has "The Warmth Of The Sun" on the flip, not "Shut Down."

See what a can of worms we've opened here?  

Pulling out the SHUT DOWN VOL. 2 CD and the "single" version from the COMPLETE U.S. SINGLES box I find these to be the same mix (with the "single" version recreated by grafting on a copy of the "Hmmm" section following the acapella break onto the intro as was done on the actual 1964 single version) with handclaps coming in after the "Hmmm's" at a low volume and being pushed up when the castanets and all come in for the final verse and tag.

But pulling out the actual single reveals louder handclaps starting during the instrumental break and continuing through the rest of the song (except for the acapella break and the "hmmm" section).  There must have been two different mixdowns then, with different sets of handclapping, one for the single, one for the LP.

Also on the 45 the edit between the intro and the rest of the song is slightly off beat, which isn't the case on the "single" version on the box set (or THE WARMTH OF THE SUN).

And here's some examples of the first beige label (with "C" Capitol logo).  The HMR pictured is typical and could have been manufactured anytime during the period this label was being used.  The BTTYS pictured has the "All Rights Reserved" verbiage added to the bottom rim (it was always on a second line on this style of label); this means it was pressed no earlier than September 1975.  The George Harrison 45 shown - not released until 1977 - demonstrates that not all singles pressed after 1975 contained the "All Rights Reserved" verbiage; it may have been dependent on the pressing plant (they generally used printers local to the plants, so it's not surprising that there are differences).

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And there's another way to determine whether a green swirl label is East Coast (Scranton) or West Coast (L.A.).  Check out the fonts on these.  The "Surfin' Safari" and "Ten Little Indians" Starlines are East Coast pressings, the other two West Coast.  Notice the font is a little taller and more spread out on the East Coast pressings (and the catalog number larger as well).

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could those ray pattern markings be a "star" ?

if so, then i will edit my post above

I'm having to work right now, so I'll look at your list in a little while.

The "star" designating the L.A. pressing plant actually just looks like a spread out asterist and, yes, like rays (6 of them).

The single I'm looking at right now is actually not a Starline, but a promo copy of Murry Wilson's "THe Plumber's Tune," and the matrix in the runout is groove 45-58045-F-1.

the "F-1" must designate an initial run, because another promo here of Capitol P 2144 - "I Only Live Twice" by Tokyo Folk Crusaders - that has the matrix 45-46254-F-1.  Anybody ever heard this?  This has to be one of the most screwball records Capitol or anyone else ever released! 

First, a question for you folks who bought this.  Listening with either HDCD or not, can you hear all the tape splices go by?  I don't mean anything Hoffman or Linett did by way of repairs; these splices are inherent in the original LP master.  WIBN has several, coming at the end of each section, most prominently on the beat just before Mike's bridge.   The other prominent one is in GOK, just before Brian's doubled vocal introducing the coda.  You can hear phase cancellation as the tape goes over the playback head a little askew due to the effect of the splicing tape.  I can't avoid hearing them every time, but maybe this time Hoffman tried to make them less prominent?  Unless he couldn't.

You can still hear the edits on the AF disc (and yes, the most prominent ones are still the ones in and out of the bridge of WIBN and at the beginning of the tag of GOK).

Possibly the least intrusive edits on these two songs are on the Greatest Hits Vol. 2 CD (remastered by Andrew Sandoval) for the simple fact that it's been EQ'd to more closely match the actual 45's and has the added effect of slightly deemphasizing the edits.

hey smile holland,

are we going to stick with the "starline" label only? are we sticking with USA release only? or are we going for all we can find worldwide? i have  45's from other countries that have a cardboard like pic cover that are on a reissue series called "dance for ever" then an a & b side with bb songs on them. same lineups as the starline issues i think. would have to go find them. and what about those capitol 45's on the '70's orange only label..but not the ones imprinted with "from endless summer" or "spirit of america", that have the "starline" lineups. are we including those?
just want to know what i should be looking for when i start to go thru some of my 45 collection.

My vote right now is to concentrate on the U.S. 6000 series Starline issues right now.  There's a ton of them alone, and there are factors that affect label variations that haven't even been mentioned yet - the big one being where the 45 was pressed.  Capitol had four pressing plants - L.A., Scranton, Jacksonville, Il, and Winchester, VA - and it's probable that different label variations were pressed simultaneously by different plants.  I was doing a fair amount of web searching yesterday and have come up with this very general order and dates associated with the various label variations (this does not take into account further variations including song publishers):

1.  September 1965 - January 1967: Green Swirl
2.  January 1967 - ?: Lt. Green Promo
3.  January 1967 - 1972?: Red/White Target
4.  1972? - April 1977: Beige/Tan/Avocado with “C” Logo (starting in September 1975 may have “All Rights Reserved” print on rim)
5.  April 1978 - November 1981: Beige/Tan/Avocado with “Dome” Logo
6.  November 1981 - Spring 1986: Blue Label
     a. with “A” prefix and incorrect “Stereo” designation
     b. with “A” prefix and no “Stereo” or “Mono” designation
     c. with “A” prefix and correct “Mono” designation
     d. with “X” prefix
7.  July 1983 - Summer 1988: Rainbow
8.  Summer 1988 - ?: Purple

The way to differentiate between the pressing plants is stamped in the runout grooves (from a post on Steve Hoffman's site):

1. A machine stamped triangle with the initials IAM indicates that the record was pressed at the Scranton, Pennsylvania plant.
Again per Mr. Spizer, "IAM" stood for the International Association of Machinists' union whose members worked at the Scranton plant. It first took effect on Scranton pressings around February, 1963. Prior to then (and after NAMI's takeover), an abstract anvil-type symbol was used.

2. A star (*) indicates that the record was pressed at the Los Angeles, California plant.

3. An 0, either stamped or hand written, indicates that the record was pressed at the Jacksonville, Illinois plant.

4. A line that branches into a V at the end (looks like a long stemmed wine glass) was supposed to be a Winchester rifle and indicates that the record was pressed at the Winchester, Virginia plant.

And the full matrix number as scratched or stamped into the runout grooves will also give an indication of the order of label variations at a particular plant.

Okay, so let's go!

Also, Jeff, I can't tell which label you're indicating for Sloop John B (6295). eBay has listings for copies on the Blue, Purple and Rainbow labels.

Finally, I can add that Good Vibrations b/w Barbara Ann (6132) exists on something other than the fairly common Red & White Target label.  Several years back, I was shown a Xerox of  a copy with a Beige/Tan label!  I was told it was owned by a collector on the West Coast.  I've looked under every stone I could find since then, but never seen nor even heard of another copy.  It's apparently rare as hen's teeth in that variation, but it does exist!

I'll do a longer post updating some stuff tomorrow - I'll bet Alex can't wait - but I found the purple "Sloop" on ebay and added it.

Also it's interesting that beige copies of GV/BA were pressed up; this would've had to be probably in the mid to late 70's, a time period during which Capitol didn't hold the rights to GV.  What may very well have happened here is that Capitol started receiving more orders for that particular single so they went ahead with a new pressing, not realizing the legal situation until after they had been manufactured.  I'll bet all known copies were destroyed, with only a few (like the one you saw the xerox of) surviving.  For a BB sompletist this could be a very valuable record.

Do you remember if it was the beige label with the Capitol "C" logo or the "Dome" logo?

Anway, I just got a ton of work dropped on me that's due tomorrow morning, so I'll post something more then.

I have Purple starlines for I Get Around, Fun, Fun, Fun and, Be True To Your School. They all use the original 45 mixes. I think they came out between 1986-88.

Thanks for the adds (the one I didn't have was a purple "Be True To Your School")

The trouble with posting the list here is that the data is in an  Excel spreadsheet, which doesn't translate into this format well.  If you want a copy of the actual spreadsheet PM me and I can send it.

Okay, I’m trying to get a grip on all re-issues on the Capitol Starline series. A lot of them are mentioned in Brad Elliott’s book, but that list -of course- stops at 1981. Doing a quick search on the world wide web (Ebay, Gemm, etc.) made me realise that it’s near impossible to get a good overview of all re-releases, not to mention what they look like. I’ve seen “white with red border”, beige/light-brown, blue, green, purple...

You get the idea: is there anyone out here that has a (near) complete list of all those Starline reissues (including it's label-colours)? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

As far as I've been able to determine this is what was issued with what label variations:

   A-Side   B-Side   Starline Cat. #   Released   Green   Lime DJ   Red/Wht   Beige   Blue   Purple
1   Be True To Your School   In My Room   6059   8/30/1965   X       X   X      
2   Ten Little Indians   She Knows Me Too Well   6060   8/30/1965   X                   
3   Help Me, Rhonda   Do You Wanna Dance?   6081   7/11/1966   X       X   X   X   X
4   Surfin' U.S.A.   Shut Down   6094   10/24/1966   X       X   X   X   X
5   Surfin' Safari   409   6095   10/24/1966   X          X      X
6   Dance, Dance, Dance   The Warmth Of The Sun   6105   6/5/1967       X   X   X   X   
7   Fun, Fun, Fun   Why Do Fools Fall In Love   6106   6/5/1967       X   X   X      X
8   Surfer Girl   Little Deuce Couple   6107   6/5/1967       X   X   X, X(S)   X, X(S)   X
9   Good Vibrations   Barbara Ann   6132   12/29/1969           X           
10   When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)   She Knows Me Too Well   6204   5/13/1974               X   X   
11   Wendy   Little Honda   6205   5/13/1974               X       
12   Barbara Ann   Little Honda   6259   Jun-78               X      X
13   I Get Around   Don't Worry Baby   X-6280   Nov/Dec-81                   X   X
14   California Girls   Let Him Run Wild   X-6289   Nov/Dec-81                   X   X
15   Sloop John B.   You're So Good To Me   X-6295   Nov/Dec-81                   X   
16   Good Vibrations   Wouldn't It Be Nice   X-6330   1983                       X

The columns aren't lining up corrrectly, but the label variations are Green (Green Swirl), Lime DJ (Light Green Promo), Red/Wht (Red/White Target), Beige, Blue, Purple, Rainbow (and this is the order in which they were issued).

It seems there were only four issues following the period covering Brad's book - three of which must have come out right after Brad's cutoff of October 1981).

Let me know if you need any clarifications - or if anyone can verify any label variations I Don't have listed here let me know.

Oh, and the X(S) designation is for the version of Starline 6107 that has the binaural mix of "Surfer Girl" (as heard on the first issue of ENDLESS HARMONY).  It only appeared on beige and blue copies to my knowledge.

If I was going to only have one bonus track, I'd prefer Trombone Dixie - in particular the unreleased Brian mono mix of the song that was discovered too late to include on the PS box. 

If I had to include Hang onto your ego - and I think the licensing of Pet Sounds by Steve and DCC and now AF somehow stipulates that this track is included, I don't think it was Steve's choice - I would have preferred the group vocal version to the Brian solo vocal version.

I don't think Steve had access to any vault material this time around other than what he had made transfers of back in late 1991 (remember, the source for this new AF issue is the analog copy he made of the L.A. master - with some bits from the N.Y. master - which was used for the 1993 DCC LP of "Pet Sounds").  The "Hang On To Your Ego" with a group vocal probably wasn't discovered until the 1993 box set was being put together (which is where it first appeared, right?), and the only mix of "Trombone Dixie" at the time was probably a digital mix, which Steve most likely would've never wanted to use anyway.

Did they find a contemporary (i.e. 1965-66) BW mono mix of TD?  I'm guessing if they have it hasn't appeared anywhere (yet). 

I have the original Ricci Martin LP in excellent condition. Got it 2nd hand once for around $2.50. Is this item valuable?

A lot of clean copies of "Beached" seem to have made their way onto the second hand market over the years, so it's not as expensive a record as it once was (back in the 80's/90's it was a $30-40 album IIRC, but you could always find cheaper copies if you looked).  There are currently several new and mint condition copies on musicstack for $10-15, but as in your case you can find it cheaper.

And if you haven't heard this album and you're a fan of Carl, you need to hear it as he's all over it (and produced it as well at Brother Studios).  And Dennis drums on a couple tracks.  Excellent album!

I had assumed that the recently released iTunes version is from the original master tapes.  Is that the case, or is it possible that it's a needle drop?

I just looked on U.S. Amazon (who also has the mp3 version available), and it's listed as being from Caroline World Service Catalog, which I believe is part of EMI.  The clips sound great, so i'm guessing the download version of the LP is from tape.

Some of the UK reissue labels (like Cherry Red and Rev-Ola) have routinely used vinyl when the masters aren't (easily) available or the cost of acquiring them might be more than the label wants to invest (cheaper to go off vinyl).  For example, the Peppermint Rainbow's "Will You Be Staying After Sunday" LP was reissued in the U.S. by Collector's Choice and the U.K. by Rev-Ola.  The Collector's Choice version is from tape and sounds fine.  The Rev-Ola version is very obviously from vinyl and sounds atrocious.

It's the Cherry Red needle-drop.

OK, excuse my stupididty, but what is the "Cherry Red needle-drop" version?

This is the recently-released CD of this album by Cherry Red Records in the UK.  It's a needle-drop, i.e. it's been mastered from an original vinyl LP.

There's an issue of the album from Japan from about 2002/2003 that was made from an actual master tape; it remains the best-sounding CD of the album.

And when you take the three A-sides off, that leaves the other eight songs adding up to about 15 minutes!  A paradigm of minimalism if ever there was one.

Thanks for that... a shame as the Japanese version seems to be out-of-print already.   

Actually U.S. Amazon is showing it as in stock - for $35.

But yeah, it's probably not being produced anymore (gotta grab those Japanese pressings while you can).

I noticed sometime last year that Ricci Martin's "Beached" LP had been issued as a limited edition CD in Japan back in 2006 and that one guy was selling one on Amazon for something like $237.  Figuring that that was a little pricey even for an album as good as "Beached" is, i scoured the net to see if there were any copies out there at the original price.  I found one - from CD Japan - which came to about $26 including shipping to the U.S.

So if you're lucky you can find some of these rare Japanese pressings for a reasonable price.

But probably not the Carl Wilsons.