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653993 Posts in 26138 Topics by 3721 Members - Latest Member: digitalhikes January 21, 2020, 09:47:04 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys: Best of the 3rd and 4th Decades on: June 27, 2009, 11:38:50 AM
1. I'll put in another vote for "Somewhere Near Japan."  If most people want to use the Edit (which is how the remixed "single version" people have been referring to is listed as on the label) that's fine.

That Edit is also some 35 seconds shorter than LP version.  It was only issued in the US on two promo-only releases: a double A-sided vinyl 45 (Capitol 7PRO-79841) and a CD single with both the LP version and the Edit (Capitol B-44445).  The only commercial release of SNJ in the US was as a cassingle (with "Kokomo" as the B-side, Capitol 4JM-44475.  The cassingle used the LP version of the song.

2. "Problem Child" - Under the heavy-handed drum track and 80's production there's a terrific, very catchy tune full of great singing.

Version that goes with the video is definitely a remix - kick drum is waaay up compared to the LP track.

Oh, you're absolutely right that the "single versions" is a complete remix: I'm just saying that the labels to the vinyl and CD promo singles containing the track make no reference to it being a remix, only an "Edit" as seen below:

2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys: Best of the 3rd and 4th Decades on: June 27, 2009, 10:22:26 AM
1. I'll put in another vote for "Somewhere Near Japan."  If most people want to use the Edit (which is how the remixed "single version" people have been referring to is listed as on the label) that's fine.

That Edit is also some 35 seconds shorter than LP version.  It was only issued in the US on two promo-only releases: a double A-sided vinyl 45 (Capitol 7PRO-79841) and a CD single with both the LP version and the Edit (Capitol B-44445).  The only commercial release of SNJ in the US was as a cassingle (with "Kokomo" as the B-side, Capitol 4JM-44475.  The cassingle used the LP version of the song.

2. "Problem Child" - Under the heavy-handed drum track and 80's production there's a terrific, very catchy tune full of great singing.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis: Post Bambu-----1979-1983 on: June 25, 2009, 11:55:05 AM
I can't remember if I asked this:  but there should be -- or perhaps I should create one myself, or has anybody else done this? -- a Dennis Wilson box set.  Gathering his solo and Beach Boy tracks together?

I did this as a 2-CD set back in 2000 at the request of my friend/fellow BB/BW fan Gary Pig Gold.  It included all the BB stuff that was released at the time - both what he wrote and what he sang leads on -  POB in its entirety, the best-sounding, most complete "Bambu" tracks out there at the time, and a few other footwear items.  I probably didn't make more than 6 or 7 for myself, Gary, and some other friends, but as you all know once it's out there it tends to proliferate.  A few years later I found some guy from Spain selling copies on ebay (with poor scans of the artwork; he was doing the same to my 6-CD COMPLETE BEACH BOYS U.S. SINGLES set), and then the track listing showed up on the Bootleg Zone website:

Disc 1
http://www.bootlegzone.com/album.php?name=soundoffreevol1&section=14

Disc 2
http://www.bootlegzone.com/album.php?name=soundoffreevol2&section=176

Here's the unadultered front cover and tray card artwork:



4  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: BB STARLINE REISSUES on: June 25, 2009, 12:02:16 AM
WHERE DO I GO TO CHECK IT OUT THE WEB SITE I DID IT ONCE  BUT I FORGOT. SO WHAT'S  THE ADDRESS WHATEVER YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO CALL THAT DAMN THING.   CAN SMILE OR DOGBONE  GIVE ME AN ANSWER IF I NEED TO ADD ANY FLIPS .

Look at the bottom of any of SMiLE-Holland's posts; the bottom line of his signature has a direct link to the site.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rhino's thingie on: June 23, 2009, 07:00:06 AM
Pleeeease tell me it's the now-"standard" Cantina version and not something we addicts have to go and buy!
lolwut
So you're saying you don't want another alternate version of "Heroes and Villains" to surface?

Not that, I just don't want to have to buy an entire box set for just one track. In fact I can't afford that kind of extravagance any more!

Different matter if it came out as part of a package of previously unreleased BBs' material, especially SMiLE material!

(What's lolwut???)

There's such an embarassment of riches as far as truly great rare and obscure stuff on this set that it would be well worth it even without a new take of H&V.  There's a lot of BW-influenced stuff on especially disc 3.  I've burned a ton of these singles over the years, but it will be nice having copies from the masters.  And it's nice to finally have a legitimate release of Jan & Dean's great "Fan Tan."  Other big highlights for me are "Just Can't Wait" by The Full Treatment and "Come Down" by The Common Cold.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: When they find those lost acetates... on: June 22, 2009, 06:51:36 PM
Actually there's software out there called ClickRepair that does a pretty amazing job at reducing/eliminating surface noise.  I recorded a .wav of one of the "origiinal" files from the npr site above and then applied ClickRepair at its "Brass Default" setting (brass/horns can have a tendency to break up when NR is applied, so they have a separate setting for that to take that into account), and it sounded MUCH better than the IRENE version on the npr site, eliminating much more of the surface noise without adding any hiss.

It's not the cheapest software - it's $40 after a 21-day free trial - but it's been worth it to me as I have been or will be transferring several BB-related non-CD albums (Kathy Dalton, the Martin & Finley single, King Harvest's second album, some Charles Lloyd, the first two Celebration albums, Rocky Pamplin, etc.).

You can read more about it at http://wwwmaths.anu.edu.au/~briand/sound/software_download/clickrepair_info.html.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best Beach Boys cover album ever? on: June 19, 2009, 07:46:27 AM
I know that Surfsiders LP. Tremendous stuff. On Little Honda, the lead singer sounds so scared that you'd imagine his undies are not clean at all anymore. And how they completely manage to ruin the intro of California Girls... that is pure deconstructive DaDa art to me.

Deconstructive DaDa art; that's perfect!  But then the album is a budget release on the budget Design label using sub-budget musicians and singers playing arrangements that are chordally wrong vocally and iinstrumentally.  Considering all that, the recording quality is surprisingly good - and true stereo - so go figure.

There's still some question as to whether Lou Reed does some singing on "Little Deuce Coupe" and "Surfin'" though I believe the current thinking is leaning towards him NOT being on the album (He was involved with several other albums and singles on this and other budget labels prior to forming the Velvet Underground).
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best Beach Boys cover album ever? on: June 18, 2009, 06:07:19 PM
The Surfsiders!
Come on folks , can you not recognize genius!

Oh, THE SURFSIDERS SING THE BEACH BOYS HITS is an awesome album, with possibly the best version of "When I Grow Up" ever (imagine it being done by a fourth-rate Coasters tribute band that has no idea what the actual chords are).

But you really have to hear the Toru & Kojima.  Smiley
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best Beach Boys cover album ever? on: June 18, 2009, 02:17:02 PM
The all-time best Beach Boys covers album has to be SMILEY" by the Japanese duo Toru & Kojima from ca 1997.  Wrong chords, chintzy instrumentation, and heavily-accented broken English "singing" of highly suspect pitch make this a camp classic.

You'll laugh.  You'll cry.  You'll cringe.  Often at the same time.  Smiley  But you'll be highly entertained.

Their version of "Please Let Me Wonder" is unbridled primitive genius!
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: BB STARLINE REISSUES on: June 18, 2009, 02:13:25 AM
OK JEFF I LISTENED TO ALL MY  FFF ALL THE DIFF. VAR.   AND THEY'RE ALL THE SAME MIX. HOWEVER  THIS IS  HOW IT WORKS
 FUN
FUN FUN
 BW/WDFFIL LYMON SANTIAGO GOLDNER    5 POINTED STAR

FUN
FUN FUN
BW ML / WDFFIL LYMON GOLDNER 

FUN FUN FUN
BW /WDFFIL LYMON GOLDNER  DELTA TRIANGLE  WITH I AM IN THE MIDDLE OF TRIANGLE

FUN FUN FUN
BW ML . WDFFIL LYMON GOLDNER

THERE MUST BE A FUN FUN FUN LYMON SANTIAGO  GOLDNER WHICH I THOUGHT I HAD BUT I DON'T.  THERE MUST BE AT LEAST 6 VARIATIONS. I HAVE ONLY 4. I HAVE BOTH MATRIX NUMBERS 51190 AND 51179. THERE'S ONE THAT'S STRANGE.  IT'S SUPPOSED TO HAVE 1  BUT THIS ONE HAS WHAT LOOKS LIKE A INCOMPLETE 3 . I LISTENED TO FFF OVER AND OVER AGAIN  FOR THE FIRST TIME IN YEARS.  I FORGOT TO PLAY MY CANADIAN FFF I'LL TRY THAT TOMORROW.

TOKENSURFER, thanks for taking the time to check out the ones you have.  Two questions:

1. When you say you have both master numbers 51179 and 51190 does that mean you have East Coast pressings (FFF on one line), one with the BW credit only with 51190 on the label and the other with the BW/ML credit with 51179 on the label?  As you can see above, Christian pointed out a third variation with the BW/ML credit and 51190 as the master number on the label, which I believe you may not have.

2. You said all the mixes were the same for the ones you have, but which mix is that?  One Mix has the guitar slightly louder than the organ in the solo (and you may also hear the "Three..." of the count-in at the beginning) while the other mix has the organ much louder than the guitar on the solo.  Whichever mix it is, it should match ALL of the Starline singles as well.

Thanks again!
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: BB STARLINE REISSUES on: June 17, 2009, 02:28:21 PM
There´s still a third east coast label variation:


facebook # 74 + # 76

I think you can identify the different mixes by the master number (45-51190, 45-51179) found under the catalogue number 5118.

Actually I believe that Capitol issued master numbers to multitracks for each song as they were recorded (or at least started); the January 1st session at which "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "The Warmth Of The Sun" were tracked were assigned numbers 51179 and 51180 respectively.  The vocals and probably some instrumental overdubs were done at Gold Star on January 8th, at which time it looks like Capitol (probably unintentionally) issued a second master number of 51190 ("Why Do Fools Fall In Love," started the day before and also finished today, was master number 51189).

It seems that Capitol originally issued FFF with this second matrix number before they caught their error and canceled that number.  In fact, the fact that apparently only some East Coast pressings had a label correcting the number to 51179 (and we know that number is correct, because it's on ALL the Starline singles and in the notes for the "Shut Down Vol. 2" album it's listed as the master number for both the LP and single version) is strong evidence that Capitol didn't catch the error for probably a couple of months and that the label variation wth "Brian Wilson" listed as the only writer are the first pressings.

Actually I'd like to know what mix is on each of the five label variations is anyone has them all, and what the full matrix number in the runout grooves is for each variation.  Can anyone help with that?  Even if you only have a few maybe between everyone we can put together the full set of five.

Thanks for any help!

And here are the L.A. label variations to go along with the East Coast ones above:



12  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: BB STARLINE REISSUES on: June 15, 2009, 06:17:31 PM
As for the FUN FUN FUN....   Brian Wilson composer credit would be LA  and BW/ML is Scranton?  is this how I understand it?  Either way, I will look at the copies I have, and see if they're different, and then play them, and see if the mixes are in fact different as well.  We do agree, that we're talking about the MONO mixes...and NOT the Stereo mixes..which is obviously different, and has the shorter ending, as we all know.  Do we know if the MONO mixes on the LPs from LA and Scranton are different as well?

No, actually there are both L.A. and Scranton pressings with both composer credits (for a total of 4 different pressings, 2 for each plant).  And, yes, I'm only talking about the longer mono mixes.  One mix (on the GREATEST HITS VOL. 1 CD) has the guitar in the solo mixed louder than the organ in the solo; the other mix (the "Single Version" on the SURFER GIRL/SHUT DOWN VOL. 2 two-fer CD) has the opposite, i.e. the organ is mixed louder than the guitar on the solo.

I don't know if the different plants received different mixes, just that two different mono mixes exist and that perhaps they went to the different plants.  It's also possible that two sets of metal parts were fabricated in L.A. with one set being sent to Scranton, which would obviously mean both plants were pressing the same mix.

One other thing, the L.A. pressings had the title on two lines, whereas the Scranton pressings had the title on a single line.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: BB STARLINE REISSUES on: June 15, 2009, 04:06:50 PM
Can someone who has both East and West Coast pressings of "Fun, Fun, Fun" listen to the solos and tell me if the guitar or organ is louder in the mix for each pressing?  This would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks!

Hey Jeff--

Welcome back.  I'm sure you have had a chance to take a look at the website, with all of the STARLINES...any comments etc??

I have multiple copies of the FUN FUN FUN on the Orange and Yellow Swirl.  At some point, I can get them together and take a listen to see if in fact the different pressings have different mixes.

But, forgive my ignorance..as I've not COMPLETELY savvy about WEST vs EAST coast pressing.

Can you give me some details (ie dead wax notations, label variations etc), which can help me determine WEST vs EAST coast copies??  If I have both, I'll give a listen, and let you know what I find out.

Feel free to drop me a message privately if you prefer.

Dogbone


I've been watching everything all along; just haven't had anything to add.

The Starline Website looks great.  I can tell you that for the green swirl and target label sections all the tall fonts are Scranton pressings, while the short fonts are Los Angeles.  Also, Los Angeles pressings have a star-shaped graphic in the runout grooves (it actually looks more like a spread out asterisk), and the Scranton pressings have a triangle with the initial "IAM" inside.

TOKENSURFER's Facebook photo album on the orange/yellow swirl labels has examples of 4 different pressings, 2 L.A. (#73 and #75) and 2 Scranton (#74 and #76) pressings, with the difference being the composer credit ("Brian Wilson" vs. "Brian Wilson/Mike Love").

Hope this helps.  I was going to post the pictures here, but for some reason I'm unable to upload pictures.  SMiLE-Holland, can you fix that?
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: BB STARLINE REISSUES on: June 15, 2009, 10:31:43 AM
SMiLE-Holland, I think it was you in another thread that pointed out that there were two mono mixes for "Fun, Fun, Fun," which I had no idea about until your post.  But checking the GREATEST HITS, VOL. 1 and SURFER GIRL/SHUT DOWN, VOL. 2 CD's you are absolutely right.

I'm trying to find out which mix was on the original orange/yellow swirl label 45.  This may be a rare case in which Capitol sent the two different mixes to the two different pressing plants (L.A. and Scranton).  Motown in the mid to late 60's did this quite often, and all the different mixes appear in THE COMPLETE MOTOWN SINGLES CD collections.

Can someone who has both East and West Coast pressings of "Fun, Fun, Fun" listen to the solos and tell me if the guitar or organ is louder in the mix for each pressing?  This would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks!
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis: Post Bambu-----1979-1983 on: June 13, 2009, 04:58:05 PM
What album is it?

THE ROCK by Rocky Pamplin (ADC LS-4055, 1979), an album of predominantly tenth-rate watered down, ultra-tepid disco sung by Rocky in a fey, somwhat pitchy voice with a prominent lisp, with the final track being a sappy ballad.  My copy is autographed on the back by Gary Griffin, who is one of two people credited with the sub-Philadelphia string arrangements.  It also contains a cover of the Mike Love/Ron Altbach "classic" "Disco Symphony" on Side 2; the original had just appeared on Celebration's barely released third album DISCO CELEBRATION, also on ADC Records (LS-4052).
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis: Post Bambu-----1979-1983 on: June 13, 2009, 08:02:59 AM
Stan and Rocky

I bought the LP that serves as my avatar at Amoeba Records in Hollywood maybe five years ago, and it's in a clear plastic sleeve to which someone has drawn in a cartoon balloon pointing at Rocky's head that says, "I beat the sh*t out of Dennis Wilson."
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The best part of SIP on: June 10, 2009, 09:39:05 AM
I want to know what happened to this guy:

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears
And the way the sunlight plays upon her hair
I hear the sound of a gentle word
On the wind that lifts her perfume through the air

That verse is one of the best lyrics in the entire Beach Boys catalog by anyone, Tony Asher and Van Dyke Parks included.  It's beautifully written and creates an indelible, slightly abstract image in the mind that complements Brian's music perfectly while remaining in that boy/girl genre.  Now it's become almost a contest to see how many times Mike can rhyme romance, glance, and chance.

The art of nostalgia is a tricky business, psychologically speaking.   It needs to be a bit poetic, and even somewhat abstract.

If you bring in some images that evoke warm feelings about the past that sneak up on the listener or observer...that let the listener fill in the dots and missing pieces from his own past, it is effective.  If you just start listing and commenting on things about the past, it is just a documentary.

Another way of looking back is done brilliantly (and very affectingly) by Flo & Eddie in their oustanding "Keep It Warm" from their excellent 1977 LP MOVING TARGETS where they basically ask what happened to the ideals we had in the 60's, and how did it all end up going so terribly wrong?  Short verses on both the Beach Boys and the Beatles are used to great effect here to illustrate the point.  But it ends on a positive note, softening the blow and expressing hope that the future will be better.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Too Many Pet Sounds on: June 09, 2009, 06:05:22 PM
I think I have this. Up to 3 months ago my only PS.

Date on back 90.7.27
MFD by Toshiba-EMI Ltd Japan 1989 Capitol Records
CP21-6011

No bonus tracks. Large foldout with lyrics in both Japanese and English. Otherside 2 pages of Japanese only. Could be notes from Brian.

Actually what you have is the second Japanese CD, which was i believe part of the Pastmasters series.  The first one - the Greenline issue - had "Uneleased Bkg's" and "Hang On To Your Ego" as bonus tracks.  It was pulled immediately, i believe because the bonus tracks hadn't been cleared for release yet.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Lead Vocals ca. 1967-69...Why So Distorted? on: June 09, 2009, 05:51:56 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but how does out of phase-mixing work and what characterizes it?

Beats me. can someone explain it?
[/quote]

I won't go into the real technical aspects, because it requires knowledge of wave mechanics, but essentially what you're doing is splitting whatever track you want to mix out of phase into two separate but equal mono signals.  One is run through with no processing, but the other the phase/polairity is altered electronically by anything up to 90 degrees.  The two signals are thn recombined to one signal which is now out of phase relative to how it started out.  The signal is then mixed with the other tracks normally.

The best way to describe the sound is to say that rather than giving that voice (or whatever was on the track) a discrete location in the mix it's now has a bit of an indistinct, slightly spread out location in the mix and sounds processed.  Listen to Mike Love's lead on "Don't Go Near The Water" through headphones for a good example.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Lead Vocals ca. 1967-69...Why So Distorted? on: June 05, 2009, 11:07:30 PM
Actually around that time they - they probaby being Desper and whoever from the group was helping to mix a given song - started mixing some vocals out of phase.  The lead vocal on "Break Away" is a great example, and it does sound tinny and processed compared to the backing vocals.  Bruce became the worst offender of doing this; both of his tracks on SUNFLOWER use it as well as "Disney Girls."  But other group members did it too (IIRC "Long Promised Road," for one).  By contrast "Lookin' At Tomorrow" has phasing applied to the vocal, which is a related though very different animal than simply mixing vocals out of phase.  In fact, they seemed to stop mixing stuff out of phase to any significant extent after Desper stopped working with the group.

When Bruce came back in 1978/79 there was a temporary resurgence of it (some of "Good Timin'"s vocals and some of the KTSA stuff).  And it still sounded shitty, tinny, and processed. Smiley
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Something That's Always Puzzled Me... on: June 04, 2009, 11:37:48 AM
Based on BW's subsequent output over the years it must have been shortenin' bread.  Smiley
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Stereo Remixes on: May 30, 2009, 07:26:53 AM
Never has been.  You'd better go back and listen.  I just listened to both the SS/SUSA two-fer (2001 remaster) and the Japanese RARITIES CD (2nd, remastered version), and it's in crystal clear wide stereo on both (with the count-in on the RARITIES disc).

It's also in stereo (with count-in) on the original 1983 Rarities LP.

Yeah, the Japanese RARITIES disc is actually a two-fer combining that original '83 album with a CD issue of the Japan-only 12-inch single of "The Beach Boys Medley."  It's still the only way to get a bunch of those tracks on CD (well, a legit CD, anyway).
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: May 30, 2009, 07:11:28 AM
I don't think I've ever heard that version.  If it doesn't fade, how does it end?  Just stops abruptly?

It ends at the end of the same line it fades out on; it just comes to a cold accapella ending rather than fading.  Very nice, actually.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: May 29, 2009, 03:13:36 PM
So, I have this "Christmas with the Beach Boys" CD:



The version of "We Three Kings..." featured on this CD fades out, but I've heard another mix of this song that *doesn't* fade out. The problem is, I don't know where this mix came from! I just know it comes from an "official release" and not from a b**tleg.

Could anybody tell me on which CD I could find it? Thanks!  Cool

The original 1992 CD issue of "The Beach Boys' Christmas Album" has the version that doesn't fade out, though the stereo's also been narrowed for some reason (as are all the orchestra tracks).
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Stereo Remixes on: May 27, 2009, 09:28:02 PM
Land Ahoy is mono. Always has been.

Never has been.  You'd better go back and listen.  I just listened to both the SS/SUSA two-fer (2001 remaster) and the Japanese RARITIES CD (2nd, remastered version), and it's in crystal clear wide stereo on both (with the count-in on the RARITIES disc).
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