[does]

It's Trying to Say does lack something, IMO.  Quite a lot in fact.

If It's Trying to Say had been on MIU, it would be seen as in roughly the same class as She's Got Rhythm or Pitter Patter.  But being unreleased seems to give it a couple of extra stars for many of you.

And yes, the crescendo is unforgiveable.

The only reason I want it leaked is so people making their stupid fantasy Surf's Up tracklistings can say they've actually heard the song

Wow.  You put the crab in crabby.

Maybe you'd feel better if you stopped forcing yourself to listen to Student Demonstration Time.

[Sunflower]

How about anything Brian related from Sunflower through 1974? That's what I'm hoping for. Any goodies you know of?

Don't know what is Brian-related, nor what's being considered for release, but I listened to these:

"This Whole World" - track only - 1970 Sunflower
"This Whole World" - vocals only - 1970 Sunflower
"Walkin'" (edit) - 1970 Sunflower
"Where Is She?" (edit) - 1970 Sunflower
"Trader part 2" track w/ bgs - 1972 Holland
"Lucy Jones" - 1974

What were your thoughts on Where Is She?

In fact, they put more heart into the singing of 'The Warmth of the Sun' than 'Our Prayer', and you can feel that.

Um.  No, I can't.

Smile is a gorgeous anomaly but it is all beautiful surface and doesn't have the heart of the earlier stuff.

Wow.  You say that as though it's fact.  Although I normally appreciate your posts, I don't think you could be more wrong about that.

The earlier stuff is fine in context, but I really dislike the romanticizing some on this board do about the surf and hot rod songs.  Those subjects weren't in their hearts.  They weren't surfers (except one of them), and they weren't drag racers.  They picked those topics because they thought they would sell records, and they did.

This isn't to criticize the early material, but c'mon, some of you are starting to sound like Bruce ("the only four-letter words we use are 'cars', 'surf' and 'girl'.").  It's not true when he says it, and it isn't true when you say it.

A great non-BW coda is on Caetano Veloso's Maria Bethania  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvsAOZv-QYY.  Reminds me of the Veggies tag in that you get otherworldly sounds from the human voice.

We all can change the albums around however we want, assuming we have the tracks available.  But there's just nothing indicating that all of those tracks were to be part of the album at once.  Dennis' tracks (WIBNTLA and 4th of July) went out, and Student Demonstration Time and Feet went in.  

Yes, of course not. We know as much as fact that all of those tracks wouldn't have been on together. In my perfect lineup, I'd probably excise one of those noted songs myself (I'll leave you to guess which one).

I'm just saying that this *could* have been released, timewise and in-full, without anyone's toes in the band being stepped-on, or retroactively having to remove the two songs that some have come to consider a real part of the album, today.

Furthermore, if someone wants to take the straight "what would've happened" approach, as you noted, it's a simple matter of substitution (and rearrangement if one also chooses). In that regard, I'd still end Side 1 with WIBNTLA.

Another option I've also seen suggested, using the straight, 2-song substitution, is to end Side 1 with 4th Of July, and put WIBNTLA on Side 2 before Brian's 3-song finale (moving The Welfare Song to Side 1, in place of the excised "Feet," as well). Though, I think I personally still slightly prefer it the other way...with WIBNTLA at the end of Side 1.

There was a thread last year in which someone said that he had sources stating that 4th of July would have opened the album, followed by Road, Disney Girls, Water and the title track.  Side 2 would have been the same as released, except with WIBNTLA replacing the title track.

4th of July works well as an initial track, IMO, with the fade-in and the "born of the age" opening lyric.

I think we also heard some commentary when Smile came out about Surf's Up (the song) being intended as a mid-point.

The first time I ever heard it, my reaction was, "now the SURF'S UP album makes sense."

It really sounds like the missing link on that record.  It doesn't surprise me it was pulled at more or less the last minute.

To be a fly on the wall for that discussion, and to have been able to assume human form in time to intervene in order to effect a compromise that would have gotten WIBNTLA on that album. (sigh)

I get the impression, though, that the song needed to be edited for length (given that those who've heard the tape peg its length at 7+ minutes, and the edit on beachboys_fr's acetate is around four and a half...) , and who knows how that might have entered into the dispute. Some have said that the argument was over track placement (Dennis wanting it to close the LP, and "Surf's Up" disrupting that scenario). Can't imagine that Mike was going to roll over on SDT, and it's likely that Reiley was in his corner for that, because it had "relevant" lyrics and it was the only hard-rockin' track on the entire LP.

If you use those two notions as binding constraints for the decision-making, where would WIBNTLA fit on the LP? Missing link it may very well be, but given that you're gonna have SU and SDT, where does it fit, sequence-wise?

A person could add *both* WIBNTLA and 4th Of July, without getting rid of anything, and the album would still clock in at just a hair above 40 minutes...which would have been do-able and nominal for Warner Brothers in 1971, in terms of LP cutting practices. And nothing would have to be rearranged, side-wise, to make the times work (though one could do that as well if they wanted to...more down below). Maybe not 100% ideal in terms of maximum fidelity, but again, still nominal for 1971 (both 15 BO and LA Light are also in the 40 min. range).

For me, I still would've put WIBNTLA as the closer for Side 1...right *after* SDT. I can imagine it having a sort of side finality to it  -- especially with CL's flute trailing off -- but NOT as the closer to the entire album. Carl was right there. SU is the epic track, in movements, and it belongs where it was. Ditto for the finality of the trailing off part of the latter (IMHO, of course).

I'd then put 4th Of July on Side 2, right after LAT. Roughly 20 minutes per side (or actually 21 and 19). You could even swap out "Feet" and LAT if you wanted to make those sides a little closer, time-wise (i.e. more like 20-20). Ultimately, 6 tracks per side.


PS - Andrew, I'm assuming "Feet," being in the can, was the other replacement song once Denny pulled his two? I think I've read that before, correct?


EDIT: Also, this is of course assuming WIBNTLA being the 4 + minute mix.

We all can change the albums around however we want, assuming we have the tracks available.  But there's just nothing indicating that all of those tracks were to be part of the album at once.  Dennis' tracks (WIBNTLA and 4th of July) went out, and Student Demonstration Time and Feet went in. 

Personally, I'd much prefer to listen to an alternate Surf's Up that includes Dennis' tracks and not SDT or Feet.  For one thing, that's at least a version of the album that might have been.  And at least as importantly, that's a really strong 10-track sequence, or will be if and when WIBNTLA is released.  Keep SDT and Feet in there, and you have something that is far, far less enjoyable, IMO.

At this stage it won't be a miracle having WIBNTLA on the box set, it'll be even having the box set released

I think I have this boxed set…

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Made-in-California-/380597075949?pt=UK_CDsDVDs_CDs_CDs_GL&hash=item589d5a7fed



 

Maybe Beach Boys_fr will buy this for us and then send us all copies.  If so, I'm first in line.

I once heard an excerpt on the phone during my book interviews. It's great early seventies Dennis and Beach Boys.

Who was on the other line?

You all know, if it really is as good as people say, it will likely appear on the boxed set.

I think the panic comes from a lack of faith* that those who are compiling the box set think it's as good as people say. We know Alan Boyd believes it to be since he has touted it here and there, but I don't think he is involved in MiC. Or am I wrong?

*I personally am pretty confident (WIBN)TLA will be on the box set.

I don't think the concern has anything to do with whether the compilers think it's good.  People have different opinions, but surely they'll deem it more appealing than cr*p like Our Team, which made the first box set.

The issue  is whether the "certain party" that Andrew Doe keeps referring to will veto its inclusion for whatever bizarre reason.  According to him, WIBNTLA was vetoed before.  So it's certainly possible that it will be again..

This is definitely not a stoner topic.  The 60s COULD be a legitimate theater production.  So much to tell, and such rapid change on so many levels.

I think of intermission as being summer 1965.  That in many ways was the fulcrum between the idealistic, peaceful changes of the first part of the decade, and the chaotic times of the second part.  On June 6, Satisfaction is released and goes to No. 1 the next month.  In July, Johnson begins the vast escalation of U.S. troops in Vietnam, which effectively was the point of no return.  On July 25, Dylan is booed offstage at Newport for abandoning acoustic folk for electric folk rock.  And in mid-August, the Watts riots take place.

For the Beach Boys, July 22, 1965 stands out as the ultimate turning point.  That was the date of release of California Girls, the culmination of all of the surf and summer tunes that came before.  It was also the first date of recording on Sloop John B—the first of the Pet Sounds tracks.

Yeah, it was obvious that Al didn't remember the track. But it was cool that he promised me he would check it out for the boxset (he did confirm that a boxset was being compiled). I really stressed to him that the hardcore fans really wanted to hear it.

These guys sometimes or often don't pay attention to the minutae the way we do. I find it hilarious usually. Like the 90's interview footage where George, Paul, and Ringo are together and George can't remember what song is on what album. It's hilarious.

True, and there is also that bit edited together where they all start telling different versions of the same stories, I've referenced that before whenever someone gets miffed because Brian couldn't remember some part of Smile. 

But...consider that apart from George's lapse in memory there, he goes into very specific and very minute detail on various things in the Anthology book, and various interviews before and after, so it's not like his memory was totally shot. Little bits of events like them getting roughed up in the Philippines are brought out in amazing detail, probably because it affected them more than something the fans want to know.

Like anyone else who isn't a rock star, they hold some memories closer and remember them in more detail than others because the memories may be more cherished or important to them than, say, memories of the song "Take A Load Off Your Feet" might be to a BB's fan. 

Didn't someone tell a story about Al being absorbed by the memory of an obnoxious goat from the Pet Sounds photo shoot?  Arguably the best album in the rock era, and Al's focus is on the goat.

That's not to make fun of him, just to say that memory is a funny thing.  Most of us don't remember the mundane details of our work, but if we're repeatedly attacked by an animal, even in a somehwat harmless way, it stays with us.

I don't want to come across as a killjoy but open unauthorised circulation of one if the key tracks - Nd therefore prime USPs - of a new compilation not long (hopefully) before official release might be used a s a reason for ditching the release altogether.

As many will know I'm partial to the occasional silver disc myself but something like this ought to be handled extremely delicately bearing in mind that this board is fortunate enough to be visited by folk at the heart if the official release programme.

Are you Steve Hoffman by any chance?

It's no doubt true that something like this should be handled delicately but c'mon, a record company isn't going to cancel an entire box set because they hear about a few people on a message board getting access to a single track.  That's just crazy talk.

Oh, that promo!  I've had a copy of that for years.  I didn't really think much of it until I just saw this thread.  Anyway, since everyone's so interested, here's that track.  (Incidentally, if anyone from BRI sees this and thinks I really shouldn't be sharing it, just let me know and we can hopefully reach some agreement.)

http://www.spoonfeeding.org/audio/wibntla.mp3

Is this a joke???

No, it's the real thing.  Dennis' voice changed dramatically for a short time in 1971 after he was hit in the throat by a Manson follower.  WIBNTLA may be the only song he recorded that way.

It is a cool find, but everybody hyping it up to be the greatest lost BBs track since "Surf's Up" is bound to be disappointed. I am excited to hear it eventually, but I am not falling out of my chair.

Ah, I get it then. It is a bit wearing to hear about it all the time, either having it hyped to the moon (often by people who've never heard the original version) and angry fanboys cursing Carl for being a regressive asshole (always by people who've never heard the original version) on the Surf's Up album, but yeah, am definitely exited to hear it just the same. I really hope this is the real deal, here - there's no guarantee that a version that may or may not appear on Made In California will be the same mix/edit/master/whatever, after all.

Even if it's not as great as some have claimed, it will be really nice to hear. Many of us have purchased all the albums at least twice, plus the original box set, Hawthorne, Endless Harmony, etc., and it's frustrating that all of that did not include WIBNTLA, while giving us a zillion copies of some of the hits, plus unneeded stuff like the Surfin' USA backing track.  It's just time for it to be released.

It seems like it would be easy for anyone to make a promo CDR like this one purports to be, put it on ebay, and make a few hundred dollars.  On the other hand, you'd think that if someone were running a scam like that, the ebay ad would at least spotlight WIBNTLA to draw more people in.

Hopefully we'll find out very soon.

I must be one of the few that actually would like to see a good amount of post-1979 material.
Example:

- Keepin' The Summer Alive (live at Knewborth '80)
- Goin' On
- It's A Beautiful Day
- Chasing the Sky
- East Meets West
- Getcha Back
- Where I Belong
- California Dreamin'
- Lady Liberty
- Rock & Roll To The Rescue
- The Spirit of Rock'n'Roll ("BB live" version '86)
- Crocodile Rock
- Problem Child
- Kokomo
- Somewhere Near in Japan
- Lahaina Aloha
- Summer in Paradise (live at Wembley '93)
- You're Still A Mistery
- Soul Searchin'
- vocals-only montage from Stars&Stripes
- Do It Again (2011)
- She Believes in Love Again (2012)
- (untitled TWGMTR outtake / I'd Go Anywhere)
- Waves Of Love (2012)
- Isn't It Time (single version)

About half that stuff's available on currently-available CDs though, and while obviously the box is going to be mostly material that's available elsewhere, I can't imagine ever thinking "I need another copy of Goin' On". I can understand that stuff going on there, but I don't see why anyone who's got those tracks would *want* them on a box set (especially since half of them are pretty poor).

Because this is supposed to be a "career spanning" box set, and as such it should cover and give a fair representation of all the phases of their career.
Yes, obviously most of the later stuff is vastly inferior to their early-mid stuff, but the box set should then just reflect that: the BB were great at first then they kinda sucked towards the end.
I don't need another copy of Goin' On, hell, I probably already have 95% of the songs that will be on the box set (some in lower quality, of course), but I think a proper career retrospective should be well balanced.  And I think one cd out of six to cover the last 32 years of their 50 years old career is just fair enough.

This is the first time I've seen someone advocate for putting material that admittedly sucked on a box set purely to achieve "balance." 

Hey, box set compilers, please don't give us Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again, because we're already getting other material from '70-'71.  Instead give us already released stuff from the '80s and '90s that we all know sucks.  And if marginal fans, critics, etc., sneer at Problem Child ... hey, that's OK.  We've got to have balance between good and bad!

Am I the only person who couldn't give a monkeys about alternate mixes or, in particular, live tracks? Sure one or two would be nice, but give me an unreleased track any day of the week, always...

I feel the same way.

Ditto x 100.
Also, nothing after 1979 please

Agree with all of the above, except I'd bump it up to 1981 to accommodate Stevie.

Don't need concert promos, session highlights, binaural mixes, already released stereo remixes, random talking, most live tracks, or much of the other stuff that cluttered up Endless Harmony and Hawthorne.

If this is what an "adult Beach Boys" sound like, I'll pass. The only good songs are "Love Surrounds Me", "Baby Blue", and "Angel Come Home". No surprise, given who wrote/sang 'em!

I'd add Good Timin' to that list.  But the fact that L.A. is generally considered to be the best post-Love You album speaks volumes about how far they fell.

I can only come up with a dozen decent post-Love You (late 70s/early 80s) songs, and that includes outtakes (Still I Dream Of It, It's Over Now, Lines, Everybody Wants to Live, Stevie), tunes that were supposed to be solo Dennis (Love Surrounds Me, Baby Blue), and songs that originated from an earlier time (My Diane, California Feeling, Angel Come Home, Good Timin’).  That leaves just Goin' On, and even that one borrrowed from Smile.

I'm surprised there is not more talk about September of My Years (the album).

I find it to be a counterpart to Pet Sounds - a much lusher, more layered sound than most Sinatra material, and extremely heartfelt.  Of course, Pet Sounds was about growing up, while September was about growing old, but the sentiments are similar.

Poor Bruce.  Another part of his idealistic little '50s world is gone.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/search/music/adv_1/artist_Beach+boys/category_1/target_DETAIL_ARTIST/title_Made+in+California/x_0/y_0/

New listing to me…

This one seems to be accepting orders.  Isn't that a first?

Try Acclaimed Music.  http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/  Best site out there for music ratings, as it combines a huge number of lists from whatever sites can be found, and merges them all together to form a comprehensive list.  It's basically an objective compilation of subjective ratings.

Pet Sounds is the No. 1 album all-time.  Two other Beach Boys albums make the top 1000, and ten total make the top 3000.

Man this band can't get a break.

I think it's that the band can't give itself a break -- or couldn't in the past.

For how many albums did the group choose the best available material?  They arguably did for Pet Sounds, but most other albums included at least one head scratcher while leaving some excellent material in the can.  They rightly deserve to be criticized for that.