Brian did not sing this line on either the solo demo track he did during the SMiLE sessions nor on the version he cut during the WILD HONEY sessions. It appears he intended the line to only be sung once following the second verse. By the time Carl cut the vocal for the '71 version, he included the line after the first verse as well. Since the '71 version became the official release, both the band and Brian have included the line after the first verse during live performances. Likely, Carl's vocal on the line was included on the compiled TSS version because that's the way the song has been heard for forty years.

Brian's original plan was to have a string passage there. One can only imagine how beautiful it would have been.

Where'd you read this?

I have been trying to remember myself. I believe it was on Steve Hoffman's forum but as to specifically who is was,etc. If there isn't hard proof out there, it makes perfect sense to me and the discussion that was had included a lot of good points. Given there were pages upon pages in those threads, it'd be tough find it. I'm not a member there anymore either. I will keep thinking though. 

Brian did not sing this line on either the solo demo track he did during the SMiLE sessions nor on the version he cut during the WILD HONEY sessions. It appears he intended the line to only be sung once following the second verse. By the time Carl cut the vocal for the '71 version, he included the line after the first verse as well. Since the '71 version became the official release, both the band and Brian have included the line after the first verse during live performances. Likely, Carl's vocal on the line was included on the compiled TSS version because that's the way the song has been heard for forty years.

Brian's original plan was to have a string passage there. One can only imagine how beautiful it would have been.

Every day, I start growing more and more convinced that "Talking Horns" is the second movement. The length of the lyrics fits perfectly.

I made a VERY poor bash at this - it works in some sections (about 3 seconds in total)
http://soundcloud.com/frederickjamesfrench-pounce/surfs-up-2-movements

Could you re-up this? I'm curious to hear it.

This is kinda out of left field, but has anybody (tried) to sync the "Heroes and Villains: Part 2 Revised" with the Veggies fade? I don't care if you have to do a bit of pitch & speed shifting, it'd sound really cool.

Muh. Maybe I'll find an old copy of Logic I have laying around and try it.

I did something like that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZoIY8bdNNo

So you are the one who made SMiLE A.D. mixes. Well man, I have to say they are absolutely brilliant. I listen to the 4.0 more than anything these days. It's a genius approach, scrapping what might have been, which is of course impossible overall, and presenting an interpretation that gives the feeling of a coherent, had-it-been-completed, feeling! And the mini-mix here, again. With all the recurring melodies and themes, I've thought how interesting it'd be to hear them put together. To you sir, a humble bow. 

One thing that ticks me off about this track (from TSS) is that damn coda. I know it's been discussed here before, but does anyone know why it sounds the way it does?

Perhaps what you're referring to is the pitch shifted vocals(slowed down)?

Now that I've been living with TSS for a few weeks, I really must say that the one thing I'm not crazy about is the way "I'm In Great Shape" was handled.  It's just too damn busy for me.  I would actually prefer them crossfading Brian's original piano demo into the piano-and-sax-only studio session with the genuine tape-delay overload kept in.  That with just a little reverb added would be just perfect, I think (and since I have that exact thing on my latest fan-mix using TSS tracks with a few other items, no problem!)...

Countless folks here have proved the piano demo and the backing track are easily well-synced, it's just NOT well-synced on the box set.

Someone else on here said the person who mixed the boxset, while doing the absolute best they could do, "don't have musical ears". I would agree completely. It's no surprise when listening to the 2001 remasters and was unfortunately expected to a degree with this. That said it is, with the "album" aside, worth it. It's too bad a new listener has to hear it this way. Kind of hard to plead the case of it being brilliant. The most I've been able to make convincing is with the H&V sections on disc 1. I hear a lot of "why didn't they use that part?"

Interesting to see that nobody has mentioned (at least not here) that Carl sings a lot of the lead on Heroes and Villains: Early Version Outtake Sessions on Disc 4 of the Boxset.

Ummm...what?

All I hear is Brian and Mike (more of him than on any released version), but no Carl as far as I can tell.

Same here. Carl??

2/10/67 - My Only Sunshine: Part 2 (Brian vocals "When The Skies Are Blue")

This is the buried vocal now on the fade correct? It's not Mike? I thought for sure it is.

I doubt it mixes both versions, as they seemingly don't have the multitracks for that and there'd be hella phasing etc. if they attempted this. Srsly, I don't hear the "ahh"ness. f*ckin' it'd be cool to make a fan mix, but in this case, you'd have one pristine chorus and one obscenely skanky sounding one. AH BALLS.

May have to agree to disagree, I'd swear I hear it in there. And speaking of being phasy, while it isn't, it does sound wonky. Not as much presence as the sections that precede or follow. Something weird there cause at least on the boots they are much more 'there', with both versions.  Can anyone else provide their thoughts on this?

'zit me, or is the chorus take with the high "ahh"s not anywhere on the box?

I thought it was the chorus take without the high "ahh"s that isn't there.

I actually thought the chorus is a newly mixed version with both vocals included!

That may it. With the more sparse "child..the child" version up front. In that case, the one with the high notes and ethereal "ahhs" is there but buried(and the best!)

'zit me, or is the chorus take with the high "ahh"s not anywhere on the box?

They're in the first chorus but to me it sounds like the eq caused much of that to be 'scooped' out. Have to listen really close, or perhaps do some lower mid boosting. I haven't tried it yet myself. Maybe someone else can give more insight.

Also, anyone else notice that they autotuned the bajeezus out of Carl's flubbing of the "locket" line? Not a fan.

You know what, my first reaction to this was no they haven't, but you're right. They've not auto tuned it to be in tune, they've simply fixed the pitching of the already out of tune note. He's flailing all over the place on the SOT version on that "locket" word.

I think they thought they could make it less embarrassing by fixing it so it wasn't as bad, but he was so out anyway, what was the point?

Beats me. Too much fun pointing and clicking rather than keeping things in perspective?

I really love the 'Great Shape' demo, one of my favorite moments in recorded history. The fly-ins don't really fit over the track, and I wonder if vocals were even meant to go on there originally.

Here's a version that combines the demo and the track, while keeping them separate: http://www.sendspace.com/file/i5o3sw

It's indicated in the sessionography vocals were documented as recorded but no tapes are found...similar notes are on "Look", "Surf's Up"....oh the humanity!

I've never heard a mix of "Heroes And Villains" that didn't need the snare to come up a lot. feces makes me want to jam a screwdriver into my ears out of frustration.

Think the snare-level is just fine in the new mix on CD1. Never been a big fan of having the snare loud in mixes though.

I think the Pt. 1, the vintage mix same as on the two-fer is better. On any others the rhythm tracks are too low. Need more punch.

Also, anyone else notice that they autotuned the bajeezus out of Carl's flubbing of the "locket" line? Not a fan.

Holy crap they did, I completely missed it!  Another case with the release of "just because one can, does not mean one should"

Has anyone here managed to isolate the chorus vocals? (both new and old)

I would love to hear that, but i don't know how to really go about trying to isolate vocals from a mono mix without an identical instrumental version or some sort of sound-spectrum software (similar to the one used for a Good Vibrations stereo mix that one smiley smiler here put together)

I second this. Would be a thrill to hear them alone. 

Where's the cough? In DYLW? I've never heard it.

It's very prominent on the boot versions of the song. If I remember correctly, it's during one of the "rock, rock, roll, Plymouth rock roll over" lines. The timing of the cough (along with the reverb) makes it sound almost musical. It obviously happened during one of the vocal overdubs and has been mixed out of the two officially-released versions.

Yes, it's during the second "rock, rock, roll". It's a weird sound, like a cough and sneeze combined which made me think it was deliberate.  In that context, I always thought of it as a comical acknowledgement of the play on words during those lines.  Probably not but anyway, got used to it and miss it in being in there.

There definately isn't any pitch shifting going on. Also the notes do fit (until a beat or two before the end, which is why they suddenly drop out). The difference is that in the other choruses they come in with the first part of the vocal "Doo(G) doo(A) ooh(D)" followed by the second "Doo(F) doo(G) ooh(A)" part then repeated. The final chorus starts with the second part and finished with the first. Perhaps that is what sounds odd to your ears but it's not been manipulated.

You are right my friend, thank you. Evidently I was being fooled by my ears. The sudden drop out and the reversing of the 1st/2nd parts is what got me. A "doh!" is appropriate here.

The percussion, at least, during the verses do take away from the subtle feel the '93 mix has. And then the blatant pitch shifting at the end to try to match the Brian Wilson Presents version. Why?? For any person that hasn't heard the original sessions before, it's deceiving in a way. The fading out tinkling pianos are so understated and cool.

Looking forward to this!

Just checked it out on Amazon, and once again I ask myself the question, why on earth do they bother with the 'bonus' track of 'Hang on to Your Ego?' We've all heard it a thousand times, the original version is one of the weaker tracks on the album, and it serves no-one to have it tagged on the end again, ruining the integrity of the album again... WHY??!!?? 

i agree in not wanting to hear it after the album. i made a copy of the AF to play regularly in the car,etc to avoid possibly scratching the original. I left the bonus track off the copy. simple fix!

I have had the AF for a few weeks now and it is indeed wonderful sounding. took a few listens to start hearing the increase in detail and overall appreciate it. with the HDCD, there isn't much difference, if any during playback with or without decoding. from what i can tell at least. i made a copy for my car, which contains the HDCD data, but it still sounds great.
i like it much more than the DCC disc that Steve Hoffman did years ago.  it's is definitely more balanced. even with the slight dropouts more noticeable on the AF, it's completely worth it. You really get the sense of the faders being adjusted at different moments,etc.
pick it up now if you can, i'm sure the price of used copies will go through the roof like the DCC has for many years!

Your reccomendation put me over the top.  I just bought the AF for $32 on E-Bay.  Can't wait!!

great! let us know what you think after a few listens. 

I was listening to Abbey Road the other day, and if "Because" wasn't influenced by the Beach Boys I don't know what was.  It sounds like the Beatles' answer to "Our Prayer".

"Lady Madonna"--The Beatles suddenly take an R&B turn following the release of Wild Honey.

"Hey Bulldog"--from same time frame.  Baroque pop gone, R&B in.  Brian was there first.

Get Back Project--stripped down, back to basics, R&B.  Again, Wild Honey.  If anything Brian felt the urge first and covered this territory over a year before the Beatles.

Abbey Road Project--in general a continued focus on R&B.  Trippy music is gone, experimentation is pretty much gone.

You know, first, I think their R'n'B-sound is likely because they started as a rock'n'roll-cover-band and played alot of R'n'B.
But I always wondered how likely it is that they were influenced by "Wild honey" and the direction Brian and the BBs went into. How well was WH received in the UK ? What about other (big) musicians? I heard WH was Jim Morrison's favorite album, so there could definitely be an influence. 

starting with Smiley Smile, the approach of having little or no reverb seems to have been a new thing then, which the Beatles subsequently starting doing also. i'm sure it goes both ways at times but i do think the Beatles took a lot of ideas more often from the BB's records rather than vice versa.
also, i think it was Smiley Smile, not Wild Honey that Morrison stated really digging. but i could be wrong.

I hear a lot of Beach Boys influence on "Penny Lane," mostly in the melodic bass line.  Macca has stated that he was influenced by Brian's bass writing on Pet Sounds, and I've always found the influence particularly evident on that track.

i've noticed the same thing. haven't done a back to back comparison and am going by my memory here, but the bass line in the verses of Penny Lane is very simllar to the chorus of "Here Today". and again, bass leading into the choruses of both are similar. i've read the Beatles actually discussed who was going to rip off this line, that riff,etc. when hearing Pet Sounds.  i'm not a Beatles fan....

I have had the AF for a few weeks now and it is indeed wonderful sounding. took a few listens to start hearing the increase in detail and overall appreciate it. with the HDCD, there isn't much difference, if any during playback with or without decoding. from what i can tell at least. i made a copy for my car, which contains the HDCD data, but it still sounds great.
i like it much more than the DCC disc that Steve Hoffman did years ago.  it's is definitely more balanced. even with the slight dropouts more noticeable on the AF, it's completely worth it. You really get the sense of the faders being adjusted at different moments,etc.
pick it up now if you can, i'm sure the price of used copies will go through the roof like the DCC has for many years!