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647876 Posts in 25918 Topics by 3699 Members - Latest Member: BigRed June 27, 2019, 03:28:13 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Landlocked Art Origin? on: Yesterday at 01:10:16 PM
It looks more like something that would have been a trade ad than actual album cover art.

It's vaguely reminiscent of trade ads of that era that appeared in Billboard, etc.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: This week in BB history June 20-30 on: Yesterday at 12:02:37 PM
It's worth noting that Carl *did* take issue with Landy's lyrics, at least in once published case. In that 1989 Dutch interview, he seemed to mock Landy's lyrics on "In My Car." This interview was done while Landy was still with Brian, and Brian was still working with the band on some projects. That was about as directly confrontational as Carl would get in interviews. And even then, he kind of seemed to at least attempt to play off his criticism as kind of being more bemused at the bad lyrics.

But really, while I'm not *in any way* endorsing either Landy being with Brian at all nor Landy's lyrics, I can't really say objectively that "I'm master of my fate, when I accelerate" is like the *worst* lyric the band ever released. I mean, Carl signed off a few years later on releasing "Summer of Love", and had previously *sang* on a song with horrendous lyrics like "Hey Little Tomboy."

I think the band rightly saw that Landy was bad news, and dinging his lyrics was just kind of an extra tangential thing to point out. The lyrics being there in the first place were a symptom of a much bigger *life* problem.

The only specifics we've heard even tangentially about what Carl thought of the '95 Paley stuff is that he didn't like the backing track to "Soul Searchin"", meaning the re-cut Don Was-produced backing track that he sang to (and that we've never even heard!). At some point *prior* to Carl's death, the first attempt was made to take the Was-produced vocals and graft them back on to the first Paley-produced (and performed) backing track. Otherwise, I don't think the band seemed to have a lot of specific issues with the quality/content of what Paley was writing, especially since they probably didn't know whether a given element was from Andy or from Brian.

It's worth searching out the Cindy Lee Berryhill first-hand account of the group session for the Paley songs, from late 1995. You can pick up some of the passive-agreesive weird stuff going on with the band, probably having as much to do with how they felt about Brian as they did about Paley. At one point, Mike asks who wrote the material, with the general consensus being that it was far-fetched at that stage that Mike had no idea who had written "Soul Searchin'", especially considering, as I recall, both Don Was and Andy Paley were *in attendance* at the session.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: This week in BB history June 20-30 on: Yesterday at 11:49:56 AM
I’m not sure how much specifically the Landy co-writing issue impacted the band’s view of Andy Paley.

Certainly, the band observed as the 80s wore on that Landy was wedging himself into Brian’s career in a “creative” way, as far as wanting to co-write and/or producer/executive produce, etc.

But this really had to be more of an observational thing, and not so much something that regularly impacted the band on a creative/commercial release level.

Landy had a few co-writes on the BB ’85 album, and one co-write on “Still Crusin’.” And he shoehorned his way into the “25th Anniversary” TV special in 1986. Not a great deal else beyond that. Most of Landy’s overreaching was on solo Brian product.

Yes, Mike has said in interviews that Landy wouldn’t “produce” Brian unless he (Landy) was involved as a co-writer or producer. But I don’t sense the band actively turned down vigorous attempts on Brian’s part to work with the band simply due to not wanting Landy around. They did *allow* Landy’s name to appear on BB project (certainly begrudgingly), and Gary Usher’s 1986 diary on working with Brian strongly indicates that Landy was moving Brian away from the group and was going as “solo” as he could to avoid having to deal with the other Beach Boys having a say. So I’d say Landy moved Brian away from the band due to “Landy” more than the band rejected Brian.

Also, I think there were other “creative” concerns the band had, back in the Landy era, with giving over a whole project to Brian. Again, in the Usher book, it seems Brian kind of wanted to produce an album himself and was kind of edged out of it. Then Usher and Melcher were vying to produce the “next album.”

Ultimately, there really was no “next album” in that era. Melcher eventually continued to produce a number of one-off singles for the band, and later on did “Summer in Paradise.”

If the band viewed the Andy Paley situation in 1995 with skepticism, I don’t think it was so much directly to do with Landy. Certainly, the whole Landy debacle didn’t leave the band *more* ready to trust what was thrown their way concerning Brian. But some of those ’95 issues may have been essentially a variation on the beef Mike had in 2012, that being Brian working with an outside collaborator (Paley in ’95, Joe Thomas in 2012) and doing so seemingly to the predominant *exclusion* of writing with Mike. And then the commensurate royalties would then also go to that outside collaborator. So I’d say if they viewed Paley with skepticism, it was more of the same thing that happened going back to the 60s with Usher, Christian, Asher, Parks, etc. Add to that the lingering animosity the band may have had towards Brian due to his book, and some general ongoing chips on their shoulders about Brian not participating in touring, and then also the band’s general lack of motivation to write, record, and release albums in that era, and you’re left with, at best, middling enthusiasm for the Paley material.

If one wants to understand how Joe Thomas did in 2012 what folks like Usher, Melcher, Paley, and Don Was *couldn’t* do in prior years, namely make a full tour and album (and accompanying live albums, TV specials, and home video releases) with the full reunited band happen, I think one important factor is Joe Thomas being a major bankroller of the thing. Those other guys in the past were looking to jump start things without a full contingent of material, usually without firm record deals, and wanted to just slide into a producer-for-hire role (I’m generalizing here of course), and maybe exercise some amount of A&R on the material. Conversely, Joe Thomas had the money and organizational skills to be, as Howie Edelson once put it, the guy clapping his hands together and *telling* the band “okay, here’s what we’re gonna do.” He found the money, the infrastructure, and had a huge bag full of Brian Wilson songs ready to go, all earmarked as “waiting for the Beach Boys.”
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: This week in BB history June 20-30 on: Yesterday at 09:24:32 AM
Further to the band's participation (or lack thereof) in the Brian/Paley sessions, what indicates not only a Carl-Brian relationship strain but also some skepticism and antagonism potentially from Mike and Bruce on the issue is that Mike, Bruce, and Carl all did participate in resoundingly poorly-received (critically and commercially) projects in the immediate few years prior to the Brian/Paley timeframe, yet seemed much more skeptical/apprehensive/pensive about those Brian/Paley songs. I discount Al from this to some degree both because he was the *least* involved of the four in stuff like "SIP", and also is the only one not known to have voiced any skepticism or negativity about the Brian/Paley material (indeed, in one case, there was that "Dancing the Night Away" session that Al appeared to not even get an invite to!).

How much their personal relationships with Brian impacted their varying degrees of skepticism and eventual partial rejection of the Paley material, and how much other reasons (weird personal ticks and nitpicks, just plain bad artistic vision, laziness, etc.) is difficult to say. The easy answer is that all of it was at play.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pro Shot Beach Boys Concerts on: Yesterday at 09:15:16 AM
Found this show on youtube. Anybody with mire infos? The user says:


199x My best guess is its from Summer In Paradise/1993 Box Set Tour (I can't seem to find any info about this performance online) Ripped straight from VHS. when i have the free time i will clean up the video as best as I can.

A&E In Concert: The Beach Boys (Part 1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txmllPjZY1M



It also features interview parts with Mike in striped shirt

My vague recollection is that this was recorded and/or aired in 1994. But certainly this show is in the 1994-93-ish range.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: This week in BB history June 20-30 on: Yesterday at 09:10:01 AM
In terms of Carl's position on material like "Summer in Paradise" and things of that ilk, I was speaking more to his signing off on the project. There's no evidence Carl and Al tried to block it, and indeed Carl did participate in some of the sessions, and Al came on even *later* in the project to add some vocals as well.

So I was speaking more to Carl's "go along to get along" sort of approach. However much he tried to side-step participation in some projects, or make cameos rather than participate fully, etc., he did participate and didn't block those Mike-centric projects/decisions.

Obviously, even if Al and Carl *had* banded together to block something like SIP, it would have opened up a huge can of worms and it would have been nothing but headaches. I think both Carl and Al decided to just placate Mike, which was easier to do since they (Al and Carl) clearly had no strong motivation to work on a bunch of their own solo passion projects, nor as far as we know try to assert themselves artistically in the band via bringing a bunch of new songs or trying to spearhead a new album project. I think they (surely rightly) saw it as easier to let Mike get his deal out of his system, meanwhile they could avoid blowing the whole thing up and throwing away the money-making machine that was the touring band. I think Carl just was more passive and more quickly gave over to Mike, whereas Al apparently made a bit more of a fuss at certain points (resulting in the temporarily falling out circa 1992 that Mike described in an interview at the time, and which probably ultimately contributed to setting the stage for Al getting edged out by 1998).

I believe Al spoke to Jon Stebbins for his David Marks book, and in that book it's explained that Mike wanted to produce the BB tours, Al disagreed, and Carl didn't back Al, which created a bit of, as Al told Stebbins, "estrangement" between Al and Carl.

The Brian-Carl relationship, both personal and professional, is obviously very complicated with plenty of info out there (and plenty *not* out there), and this certainly in turn impacted the goings-on with the band.

What's a bit easier to at least grasp some additional circumstantial evidence about is Carl's general attitude towards band politics and artistic decisions, some of which involved Brian and others that didn't.

What was going on circa 1995 with the Brian/Paley stuff was obviously imbued with plenty of interpersonal stuff to do with Brian, but it also involved a bunch of band politics largely outside of Brian, and we saw this play out in 1997/98 with the Mike/Carl, Carl/Al, and Mike/Al relationships all being tested and strained.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: This week in BB history June 20-30 on: Yesterday at 08:21:08 AM
The late era Carl-Brian relationship is indeed underexplored. I think we have a number of *potential* reasons there were issues, but few firm answers.

It’s worth noting that even after Brian’s extraction from Landy, Brian stayed relatively estranged from the band for the subsequent few years. His last Landy era gig with the touring band was in 1990, and I don’t think he appeared on stage again with the band until 1995 (he made one or a few backstage appearances prior).

I think, however much the band and especially Carl knew the fake autobiography was a result of the abusive situation Brian was in, there were unavoidable tensions and hurt feelings as a result of that book. The entire period *immediately* upon Brian being extracted from Landy is not particularly well documented, so it’s unclear what lingering tensions may have remained.

I think other insiders/experts have mentioned that Landy did a number on Brian turning him against Carl, and there may have been fallout from that situation that never was fully resolved, which would cause issues on both sides of the relationship.

We know Carl did continue to work with Brian in some instances. There are reports of Carl, outside of the 1995 era “reunion” sessions, working on a Brian “Proud Mary” session.

I think Carl just wasn’t quite in the headspace of embracing the 90s Brian sort of “renaissance” among the nerd/indie music press/fandom. Carl was cutting David Foster/Peter Cetera-sounding stuff with Beckley and Lamm in the late 80s and into the early-mid 90s. I can imagine the idea of doing an album of retro-sounding songs, with a sometimes heavy contribution from Andy Paley, may have given Carl pause. Some have tried to parse Carl’s reported negative reaction to those circa 1995 “reunion” sessions by suggesting he didn’t nix the material in general nor cancel the project, but simply had more nitpicky issues with the backing tracks, and not doing further work on those sessions may have been more down to the (odd) decision to work on “Stars and Stripes” instead, and then by the end of 1996 into 1997, Carl had his health issues. Yet, even trying to soften Carl’s stance on the Paley material, it does seem odd that he would just “go along to get along” working on numerous ill-advised, tacky Mike-centric projects like “Summer in Paradise” and various one-off singles, yet waited until the band was working on what most observers would say was far more *substantive* work on those Paley tracks to them voice displeasure with the material.

One of the only direct quotes from a band member regarding Carl’s take on that Paley material came from an alternate edit of Al Jardine’s 1999/2000 Goldmine interview that was published in “Record Collector”; I can’t seem to find it anywhere on line. But as I recall, he indicated it was Carl who had some sort of issue with the material. Subsequently, Peter Ames Carlin got Mike on record in the 2000s saying something to the effect of his being “willing” to work on the material even if not super enthusiastic about it. Bruce Johnston told Howie Edelson that he (Bruce) felt the band was doing Brian a *favor* by being at those Paley sessions, and indicated he didn’t feel it was prime Brian material. Weird stuff from the band who was still doing “Summer in Paradise” material in concert.

Also, I think a big part of Carl and the other members’ attitudes towards Brian and Brian’s ability and potential was down to the band still being relatively estranged from Brian. They were obviously in various forms of contact at various times. But they weren’t all seeing him on a daily basis, and weren’t seeing what sort of musical stamina Brian had either in the studio or out on the road. So when it was pitched at some point in the later 90s for Brian to do a “Pet Sounds” tour with the band, I can’t entirely blame some of the band members *if* they were a bit skeptical of what Brian could do out on tour, either in terms of vocal performance or being able to sustain himself for a full tour. Obviously, though, they could have investigated this by actually working more with Brian and investigating and testing and rehearsing to see what could work.

By 1995, Brian *was* showing he was able to be quite productive in the studio. He released *two* albums in 1995, and the band was also surely aware by 1995 that Brian not only had those hand full of Paley songs prepped for the band to work on, but also that Brian had written and recorded *dozens* of songs with Paley.

The only participants in those Paley sessions with the group whom I’ve never heard anything but enthusiasm for, besides Brian of course, is Al Jardine (and Matt Jardine). Mike seemed cautious but willing (and on-site reports of the actual sessions indicate Mike was being weirdly sarcastic/antagonistic), Bruce felt he was doing Brian a favor even being there, and Carl, who also did participate, apparently had some sort of misgiving about some element or elements.

Why were the band members (excepting Al in some cases, who apparently started disagreeing with various band/Mike decisions in the 90s) willing to let Mike have his way with the band’s name and its direction, yet seemed *more* apprehensive about going back to a “Pet Sounds” format of Brian writing material largely with an outside writer, in some cases even cutting backing tracks, and then having the band cut vocals? Was it skepticism about Brian’s condition? Lingering animosity towards Brian? Longstanding skepticism about an *outside* collaborator steering a full album?

Andy Paley said in one interview that the Beach Boys could have cut full vocals for an entire album’s worth of material in two days, he was that impressed with the band’s vocal ability and also obviously confident in the material he had written with Brian.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: This week in BB history June 20-30 on: June 25, 2019, 11:55:51 AM
Well Carl was a very private person and to this day remains a bit of an enigma as a result but my own feeling is that he kind of surrendered in the late 80s and mike kind of took control. It’s well known that Carl didn’t love playing the resorts in Tahoe and Vegas and absented himself from what he perceived as embarrassments like wipe out with the fat boys

That Dutch 1989 Carl interview is telling; he specifically says he envisions that Mike will still be out there touring after everybody else is gone for one reason or another.

Carl didn't like the casino shows, and in prior years had wanted something more like the band touring less often, maybe every other year, and then they would do more arenas and amphitheaters and less casinos and fairs and whatnot. But that never happened, and Carl continued to do all those gigs.

Even when Carl had more leverage and was more motivated to stand up, he quickly gave in to some demands. Supposedly, one of the conditions of returning in 1982 was to stop booking casino gigs. But a quick look at the touring schedule tells us that didn't last long. He kept the band rehearsed enough to sound solid. But he also pretty much gave in to any elaborate setlist changes eventually.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: This week in BB history June 20-30 on: June 25, 2019, 11:52:22 AM
I actually think the band sounded the way they did toward the end of Carl's tenure was because Carl thought that's how contemporary music should sound...listen to that Wilson-Beckley-Lam album and you'll know what I mean. Some great songs and vocals there, but the instrumentation, arrangements and production are kinda bland on much of it.

The 90s touring band sound was just the next extension of what had been going on in the 80s, which was paring *down* the extra instrumentation (especially acoustic instruments) and going more streamlined. The 90s band sounded about as good as a band could with a problematic drummer (no offense to Kowalski, who was by all accounts a great drummer in the late 60s and into the 70s), and only two keyboardists doing both "rhythm" piano and then the orchestrated bits, and kind of 1 and 1/2 guitarists once Foskett/Baker left, as Al and Carl's guitars were not at the forefront of the band sound apart from Carl's solos. Carter was always solid in bass.

They added Cannata on sax (and some keyboards) into the 90s, but that was about it. No acoustic pianos on stage. Eventually no Hammond organ. No horn section (which admittedly was only a sporadic thing that stopped by the late 70s for the most part).

I think a combination of contentment/attrition and indeed Carl's preference for that David Foster-Chicago-ish adult contemporary sound did lead to the band sounding the way it did.

Listening to something like the great setlist on the '93 Paramount NYC show, the main problems are the drumming and the tinkly (aka "toy keyboard" as someone else put it) keyboards.

I think the touring band through the end of Carl's life was just playing in a different fan/critic atmosphere as well. The sort of indie/nerd Brian/PetSounds/Smile stuff had only started to be a "thing." I don't think Carl would have found it logical prior to 1998 to either shift the band to a big, lush, ensemble the way Brian did in 1999,  nor to truly drastically change up the setlist to add either later-era or even earlier-era deep cuts. I'm also not sure Carl would have been on board for essentially wiping the slate clean of a bunch of the "live" arrangements he had honed over all those years, and going back to playing the early-mid 60s stuff "just like the record."

Look at mid 90s setlists. They weren't even doing stuff like "Kiss Me Baby" or "Don't Back Down", rarely did even things like "Please Let Me Wonder." It's supremely odd Carl *never* once sang "Good Timin'" on stage for the last 15 years of his touring career.

There were a *few* brief moments where they tried a *few* odd things. For some reason, in pre-Kokomo 1988 they all of a sudden got *crazy* and added "This Whole World", "Forever", and "Caroline No" to the setlist. They didn't even last the year.

I think Carl was locked into the idea that the masses woudln't go for anything but the 90-minute-ish meat-and-potatoes setlist and presentation, outside of a few things here and there. And I think he was partially right. While I've always advocated that it woudln't have ended the Beach Boys' touring career to like swap out five songs now and then for something else, I don't think even a Mike/Bruce 2019 setlist would have gone over the same in a Mike/Carl/Al/Bruce 1995 Beach Boys show, let alone stuff like Brian doing the entirety of PS or Smile, etc.

Apart from the blink-and-you'll-miss-it late 1993 "boxed set tour", about the craziest the touring band got was finally adding the staccato bridge bit to "God Only Knows" after all those years.

Now, I think with some inventiveness and imagination, even in the early-mid 90s, the Beach Boys could have done more interesting things in the studio and in concert. Solo members could have found time to do "passion projects" on the side. They could have done like a one-shot "Pet Sounds" concert for PBS or whatever.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: June 25, 2019, 09:17:08 AM
A 9/29 "Greatest Hits" show has been announced, so I've added that to the top post schedule.

Also added next year's "Cayamo" cruise gig to this schedule for now; if/when more 2020 shows are scheduled, I'll start up a 2020 thread if needed.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Honkin' Down the Highway Single/LOVE YOU Marketing on: June 21, 2019, 01:46:48 PM
Considering how much Brian digs the "Love You" album, I'm surprised he hasn't done more tracks from it more often. They'd be easy for the band to pull off, and his 1976/77 lead vocals are less taxing to do in modern times than his '64 voice. "The Night Was So Young" has had a few airings, and "Honkin' Down the Highway" was in there for a little bit with Al singing.

But yeah, "Airplane" and "Johnny Carson" would have been a hoot to hear, and others as well.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: This week in BB history June 20-30 on: June 21, 2019, 01:44:10 PM
Agreed that he might not have had his usual filter. While he was usually positive about stuff he also was the “quality control” guy and of course he knew deep down that celebration was crap. He probably just had an honest moment and actually said it by accident

Ps love these posts keep them coming!

Carl was the QC guy indeed. But he certainly wasn't filling that role in 1977/78; it's telling that we have pro-shot shows on video over a year apart (Largo, MD from January 1977 and Australia 1978), and Carl is toasted at both shows ("78 more so of course).

As even attested to in Jon Stebbins's "Real Beach Boy" Dennis bio, Al Jardine was about the only person holding that 1978 Australia/New Zealand tour together. Carl was out of it, Brian was head-in-the-clouds at best, Dennis seemed relatively together ironically but was embroiled in all of the politics, and Mike was doing his usual schlock stuff, like trying to teach multiple lines of lyrics to an audience that had never heard the song in question ("Country Pie').

I'd also argue that while Carl, as musical director, kept the Beach Boys generally very professional sounding through his tenure in 1997, the band got pretty stale and rote.

Just imagine a band *with* Carl and the rest of the guys, but with Mertens and Totten as musical directors really motivating everybody to up their game.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Honkin' Down the Highway Single/LOVE YOU Marketing on: June 21, 2019, 01:39:37 PM
I'd also say, regarding "Rock and Roll Music", that it was a good single and a fun/catchy recording, but its secondary lasting legacy for me and many BB fans is the eventually *tedious* inclusion of the song in nearly every setlist from that point on. The song had some pep when it was first added to the setlist, especially when the band had a horn section. But eventually it became pretty tedious.

By the 90s, what with the band's weird penchant during that era of slowing down a bunch of the songs in the setlist, "Rock and Roll Music" was one of the low points of the show.

On the C50 tour, they reinvigorated the song with some pep by doing it at a decent tempo and, despite the huge band, actually making the song sound pretty sparse and hard-edged relying mainly on drums and guitars. But it still was one of the weaker moments.

It's interesting that, while Brian's tours have usually focused on Brian-penned (or co-penned) songs, he has dipped into old BB covers (e.g. "Do You Wanna Dance"), yet never saw fit to add "Rock and Roll Music" to *his* setlist. I don't think Al often or ever did it at his solo shows. Same thing with "It's OK." For whatever reason, it has been mainly Mike that has revisted those songs and seems to have more fondness. Both Brian and Al, individually and collectively, have instead dipped more into "Love You", while Mike has ignored that one (despite having some good moments singing songs like "Airplane").
Surprised Al hasn't resurrected Come Go With Me. He sure loved getting the crowd into that one circa 1983-84.
I'm still waiting for The Brian Wilson Show to include Kokomo or Still Cruisin'.

In Brian's band, I don't think Al gets much say or input into the setlist.

Al did do "Come Go With Me" at least once with Brian's band, at the first gig he did with Brian back in November 2006 at UCLA. I think after that, even at the 2006/07 gigs they did together, that one was dropped.

Al of course also did it on C50.

I don't think we'll see Brian's band do non-Brian tracks like "Kokomo" or "Still Crusin'." He doesn't even do some of the BB hits he *did* have a hand in writing, like "It's OK", nor some of their cover hits that he (Brian) produced or had a hand in, like "Rock and Roll Music."

The prompt for Brian's solo tours has always been to do mostly songs he has written or co-written. Even some of the songs others like Al or Blondie sing are usually Brian co-writes. There are of course some exceptions, like cover versions ("This Could Be the Night", "Be My Baby", etc.), and on rare occasions Dennis songs. I think the only Al-penned song Al has done with Brian's band that Brian didn't co-write is "California Saga: California." Al supposedly rehearsed "Lookin' at Tomorrow" with Brian's band for the 2014 PBS Venetian gig, but they didn't perform it.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: This week in BB history June 20-30 on: June 21, 2019, 11:59:52 AM
It's interesting too that Carl felt that way about the "Celebration" stuff in light of his having sat in for a Celebration gig (along with Brian) when Celebration did that gig at USC in April.

I think Carl was just in a rare sometimes drunk, surly mood in 1977/78, and probably didn't have his usual filter. Think about the turmoil just between mid-1977 and mid-1978. Carl was drinking more at gigs, then the September "Tarmac Incident" where the band nearly broke up, and then early 1978 saw the Australia debacle.

That the band was alive, active, and doing gigs in the summer of 1978 was arguably a small miracle.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Honkin' Down the Highway Single/LOVE YOU Marketing on: June 20, 2019, 07:21:52 AM
I'd also say, regarding "Rock and Roll Music", that it was a good single and a fun/catchy recording, but its secondary lasting legacy for me and many BB fans is the eventually *tedious* inclusion of the song in nearly every setlist from that point on. The song had some pep when it was first added to the setlist, especially when the band had a horn section. But eventually it became pretty tedious.

By the 90s, what with the band's weird penchant during that era of slowing down a bunch of the songs in the setlist, "Rock and Roll Music" was one of the low points of the show.

On the C50 tour, they reinvigorated the song with some pep by doing it at a decent tempo and, despite the huge band, actually making the song sound pretty sparse and hard-edged relying mainly on drums and guitars. But it still was one of the weaker moments.

It's interesting that, while Brian's tours have usually focused on Brian-penned (or co-penned) songs, he has dipped into old BB covers (e.g. "Do You Wanna Dance"), yet never saw fit to add "Rock and Roll Music" to *his* setlist. I don't think Al often or ever did it at his solo shows. Same thing with "It's OK." For whatever reason, it has been mainly Mike that has revisted those songs and seems to have more fondness. Both Brian and Al, individually and collectively, have instead dipped more into "Love You", while Mike has ignored that one (despite having some good moments singing songs like "Airplane").
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Honkin' Down the Highway Single/LOVE YOU Marketing on: June 20, 2019, 07:12:47 AM
R&R Music was a good single. Brian's instincts were spot-on there. Good song choice, good hook, nice nasally Mike lead. Not much else about 15BO made sense. It's perhaps the single most curious creation in the band's history, which is saying something.

I think "15 Big Ones" came across as a case of moments of inspiration and creativity, and then at a certain point it was just a matter of getting a product out there for the summer.

It's fascinating how at certain moments various band members just left things in Brian's lap and stayed passive, and then at other random moments spearheaded projects.

Look at how the hot potato was passed around in the second half of the 70s, either passively or actively. Brian fronts 15BO, then takes even firmer charge of both "Adult Child" material and "Love You", then all of a sudden Al Jardine is left to scrape together a Christmas album (only to see it rejected), and then the "MIU Album", cobbling together new recordings and weird Brian leftovers ("Hey Little Tomboy"?). Then Bruce is back, and first cobbles together disparate solo-ish material into an album ("LA"), and then works a bit more from scratch on a further album (KTSA).

For all the cool tracks on those albums that went largely unappreciated by the masses, it's also at the same time kind of surprising such a schizophrenic/frankensteined series of albums/projects got the band *any* traction with charts or critics. The stuff was only sporadically, sometimes seemingly *accidentally* in step *at all* with what was on the charts at any given moment.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Honkin' Down the Highway Single/LOVE YOU Marketing on: June 19, 2019, 09:24:18 AM

Regarding stores mistakenly ordering 15BO thinking it was a hits comp, it's strange that after their mistaken strategy in ordering 15BO still ended up being a case where the album went Top 10 and the single went Top 5, that *still* wouldn't indicate that they would want to order that band's next album?

Stores like K-Mart and similar ilk (White Front, etc.) were typically less stocked than full-on record stores, so I would imagine they had to make more judgment calls on what to order or not order, whereas a full-on record store in the late 70s was still typically ordering in at least a few copes of the new BB album.

I suppose I could understand a casual consumer, upon *first glance* at "15 Big Ones", perhaps thinking at first it was a hits compilation. But a buyer for a music dept. of a dept. store would have to be going out of their way to not pay attention to mistakenly order an album thinking, based solely on its title, that it was a hits compilation. They'd have to assume that even with TWO Top 10 "hits" compilations having come out the two previous years in 1974 and 75, including a #1 album, that the Beach Boys were releasing *another* hits compilation of the same hits again (since only those early hits would be the ones that would sell, right?), and would also have to be unfamiliar with the band's then-current label (Reprise) being different than the label that then had the distribution rights to those pre-1966 tracks. And that would also have to ignore any press/publicity from the label concerning BB product.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Honkin' Down the Highway Single/LOVE YOU Marketing on: June 19, 2019, 09:13:31 AM
Regarding timing and strategy of releases for “Love You” and its singles, it’s interesting that the band must have felt/known pretty strongly *back then* that Warner wasn’t putting much into their releases what with their weird “lame duck” status having signed with CBS with TWO albums left on the Warner contract.

I recall Al Jardine mentioning in several latter-day (e.g. post-90s) interviews that he remembered Warner cheaping out on “Love You”, citing the cheap quality of the album jacket compared to what the band apparently wanted at some point. Considering how much detail the band members *don’t* retain in modern interviews, the fact that Al remembers that specifically is pretty telling.

With “Honkin’….”, the timing for its release seems to line up pretty close to the typical timing of many “second single” releases from albums, meaning the second single to be pulled from albums. That often tended to happen roughly a month or two after the accompanying album release. I’m not saying they had some other single planned for “Love You” only to be pulled. It’s quite possible Warner just wasn’t putting much into the album or its singles.

Indeed, while I dig “Love You”, I’m not certain *anything* on that album would have been a significantly better chart performer as a single.

I think “Rock and Roll Music” and the 15BO album were a bit of a fluke.

I’ve seen a theory in the past that the best post-“Rock and Roll Music” single choice to be a potential hit would have been either to bump *up* the release of “It’s OK” to earlier, or, post-15BO, to get “Peggy Sue” or “Come Go With Me” out (the latter of which, I believe, if not both, had been tracked by the time “Love You” was out) as a single on the heels of a previous cover being a hit. It would have been a bit of a gimmick/novelty, but it probably would have given them a bit better chart action.

Over the years, I’ve seen a lot of what-ifs involving Beach Boys singles, involving simply pulling a different song or timing single releases differently. And I think there’s not much evidence that gives me a strong sense that such slight variations would have made a big difference. I think “It’s OK” could have been pushed earlier in 1976 and it may have done better on the singles charts. I think minor tweaks may have occasionally resulted in minor improvements. I guess if they had churned out some obvious super-clone of “Kokomo” to come out later in 1988, they may have manufactured another slighter hit (but something that would have done better than the ’89 singles).

But I don’t think “Honkin’ Down the Highway” was ever going to be a hit single, just like nothing from KTSA in 1980 was ever going to burn up the charts, etc.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: June 18, 2019, 02:32:27 PM
New dates announced for 9/23 and 9/28. For whatever it's worth, they're still booking more September shows as if he'll be back on the road.

We've got to take that as a good sign, right?

I guess it depends on each person's outlook. I'm sure we all hope this means whatever has gone on isn't too serious. But certainly others might feel that it would be okay for Brian to take more time off. A concern that August/September shows might be still difficult would not be unfounded.

We obviously don't know any particulars of what's going on with Brian. But it's a pretty unprecedented step that he took both in terms of why he had to postpone the shows and also the frankness of explaining why. But that tends to make some fans, who again don't know the details, worry that whatever is going on can't be addressed sufficiently in the span of only about eight weeks.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: June 18, 2019, 11:53:49 AM
New dates announced for 9/23 and 9/28. For whatever it's worth, they're still booking more September shows as if he'll be back on the road.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: June 14, 2019, 02:44:56 PM
Matt is better filling the BBesque falsettos and other high parts as well as the Brian leads.

But Bonfiglio was good; stick him in the band too...
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's most active late-70's period on tour on: June 14, 2019, 02:42:59 PM
On the "Back Home" video, I obviously can't say anything for sure. It seems like an awfully mild yet *long* shock if that's what it is. Mike is holding on to the mic just moments before Brian steps up.

It sure looks to me like he's trying to adjust the mic stand down below to make it taller, as he's taking over someone else's and he's taller. After he smacks the mic, he then proceeds to instead tilt the mic upwards more toward him (it also then moves up just a bit).

Hardly an intense mystery. But to me it's a case of Brian just being kind of weird and easily frazzled and probably wired. Just before the song, he sings "Airplane" and seems kind of wired and pretty much *screams* his lead vocal.
In looking at the footage, seconds before the Brian vs. microphone incident, Mike is either arguing with Brian or being very expressive about something at the 8:10 mark:

https://youtu.be/NhQnELrh9a4?t=490

As Bruce was out of the band at the time, perhaps proper mic adjustments were something the band was lacking.



That exchange between Mike and Brian has always seemed a little weird. My best guess is that Mike is giving Brian some sort of mock half serious pep talk and Brian is responding in a sort of half serious intense fashion.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: Any footage/photos of Carl's final gigs? on: June 14, 2019, 09:45:29 AM
I've never seen that one before!  Shocked Thanks for posting it. There is a picture in the "In Concert" book, but it's quite sad to see. I had heard it was hard to look at, but when I saw it I was actually really shocked. Carl didn't look like Carl at all.  Sad  Many years ago, somebody on this board mentioned seeing a video of the group from this period, and Carl was sitting down. I'm not sure I'd want to see it. It is a little to much of a coincidence that we have audience videos of the group from every year in the 1990's, except for 1997 with Carl.

As has been discussed in the past, and as some folks who are familiar with issues like what Carl went through, it's a bit ironic that, while I think Carl generally doesn't look too bad in the extant photos from that tour all things considered, the main area where he does look different than normal is the water retention/bloating (or pick whatever similar word) that often comes from taking various steroid-related medications while undergoing cancer treatments. So it's not the disease nor even the primary chemo/radiation treatments that led to the main issue that led to him looking different in 1997. He was apparently also wearing a wig at some point, which is of course due to hair loss from treatments.

But really, I've known people undergoing chemo and radiation, and I have to say that considering everything Carl was going through, he generally looks pretty okay in the photos and footage I've seen, keeping in mind his condition, the treatments, the off-shoot medical issues that come from all of that, and that he was still traveling around and doing full shows, playing guitar and singing. Even if he was sitting for some/most/all of some of the shows, and even if he was traveling by bus instead of airplane on that tour, that's still rigorous activity for someone battling all of that.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: Any footage/photos of Carl's final gigs? on: June 14, 2019, 09:38:32 AM
In Mike's book he says that at the last show he played, he was wheeled out onstage in a wheelchair. I'm not sure if I believe that.

I don't know about those specifics, but evidence would indicate Mike was taking issue/concern with Carl's condition and/or appearance out on tour by that time. Check this post out:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18436.msg481404.html#msg481404
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: Any footage/photos of Carl's final gigs? on: June 14, 2019, 08:59:30 AM
Here's Carl from Syracuse. He was seated the entire show

carl" border="0


If that's confirmed as Syracuse, then that would be August 21, 1997, which would be only eight days before his final show on August 29th in Atlantic City.
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