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641314 Posts in 25607 Topics by 3644 Members - Latest Member: Lennon74 December 18, 2018, 03:23:52 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension Release Thread on: December 13, 2018, 11:39:19 AM
A quick perusal of the not-always-100%-reliable shows only a few strange 1968 setlist inclusions, mostly or all presumably from shows from which no recordings exist/survive. Note that several of these selections are not full performances but rather quick riffs/teases/partial versions.

Goober Peas - Memphis 4/24
Papa Oom Mow Mow - Memphis 4/24
Transcendental Meditation - New Rochelle, NY 5/4
409 - San Diego 7/17
Pushin' Too Hard - Fillmore East, 10/11
Vegetables - Fillmore East, 10/11
Heroes and Villains - Fillmore East, 10/11
Graduation Day - Several Shows
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension Release Thread on: December 13, 2018, 11:31:27 AM
Nice tracklist but what an awful album cover
That image is the cover of the 1968 UK Tour Program.

Jon - side question: it's very cool that we're getting multiple live versions of Little Bird... Do you know if Be Still or Be With Me were ever performed live? Same with Never Learn Not to Love (other than the Mike Douglas TV show version)?

While my recollection of rare live setlist selections is a little rusty, I don't believe any of those tracks were ever performed live outside of the Mike Douglas TV show where they sang over the pre-recorded backing track.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension Release Thread on: December 13, 2018, 11:21:32 AM
The band did surprisingly really tight readings of "Little Bird" and "Friends" on the 1968 tour.

I'm 100% behind these "dumps" of all the soundboard stuff they have for each of these years.

Now, I think as we continue on to subsequent years, the "Live" set components will get even more interesting of course. I'm still hoping they do something larger-scale with the archives sooner so it doesn't take until the BBs are nearing 90 YEARS OLD to get to "Light Album" or "KTSA" outtakes, etc.

But it'll be interesting to see how live stuff continues to be presented once we hit years in the 70s where there are too many soundboard/multi-tracked live shows to put it *all* out in one big lump.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread on: December 13, 2018, 07:37:47 AM
I saw  Brian's XMAS show tonight in Hollywood, FL at the Hardrock Casino. It was an awesome time but I have no doubt some Beach Boy fans felt disappointed in many of the well known songs not being performed.

Some thoughts:


Al Jardine's voice is incredible. He was awesome on Christmas Day and a bunch more. I really hope he rejoins Mike's team at some point assuming Brian is near the end.

Blonde Chaplin's voice was also really good and funny. Not as bizarre this time around.

Rob B. (Carnie's Husband) was awesome. He's different than Matt Jardine. More charismatic and more animated. His voice is really nice. He took some really good XMAS leads.

The full band/instruments etc... Just spectacular.


They had an 'opening act' who were really good but most people thought Brian started at 8PM and it was closer to 9PM. That might've taken a little wind out of the crowd.

They only played 8 or so non XMAS Beach Boys songs. They didn't even play California Girls, Do You Wanna Dance?, Surfin Safari,  Kokomo, I Get Around or Don't Worry Baby.

Brian's Solo XMAS songs don't go over well. Nobody knew them (including me).

Brian's voice was really weak/bad. He barely showed any emotion today and you can tell his physical status is really poor. It's sad to see but the show must go on!

I think they should drop O Holy Night, Run Run Rudolph and a few others. Replace them with Beach Boys songs.

Overall, it's really special to hear the XMAS songs in person especially Al on Christmas Day. I'd say go in with low expectations of Beach Boys songs and just more of a Christmas show with a few Beach Boys songs.

Some others have already spoken to some of this. But other than arguing that non-fans being comped tickets on the night might be confused (and even then it's a stretch), there shouldn't have been any expectation to hear mostly the same old "Beach Boys hits", nor some of those specific songs listed.

This tour has been marketed from the outset not only as a "Christmas" themed show, but a show where the *entire* 1964 Christmas album would be played. Tour materials also mentioned Brian would be doing other additional Christmas songs. That right there amounts to what would be the majority of any typical Brian show. They then added a short additional set of some "classics."

Why would anyone but casual fans or non-fans want to see Brian drop rarely-performed songs like this solo XMas songs or the '77 Christmas songs (which I'm sure are just as "unknown" to casual audience members as his 2004 solo stuff) to play the same hits he plays at most shows?

The *entire deal* with this tour is that it's something different.

Also, as others alluded to, why would anyone expect Brian to perform "Kokomo?" He has NEVER performed the song in nearly 20 years of solo touring, and as many including Mike Love himself is quick to remind us, Brian isn't even on the original recording and had nothing to do with it. For the record, Brian has very rarely performed "Surfin' Safari" as well. And, while he has done "Do You Wanna Dance?" on some tours, I'm not sure why anyone would prioritize that song as a well-known hit they'd want to see him perform; it was a cover version to begin with of course.

As for "O Holy Night", I would guess it probably came up because it's on Brian's 2004 Christmas album.

But to recap, anybody complaining about too many Christmas songs or not enough "hits" were clearly just ignoring the ticket and promotional materials for this tour. Any fans who want the band to do "Kokomo" instead of "Winter Symphony" should just avoid a Brian Wilson tour and go see Mike Love's band. You will absolutely hear "Kokomo" at his show.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension Release Thread on: December 13, 2018, 07:20:13 AM
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 10, 2018, 12:52:30 PM
Posting a chapter for perusal is much appreciated.

But with all due respect, the bar keeps getting moved. Previously, it was "how can you criticize the book without having read any of it?", and now, after a chapter is posted, it has morphed into "how can you criticize the book after having read only one chapter?"

To be clear, nobody is publishing an actual official full review of this book after not reading it or reading only one chapter. But when really ancient, long-since-debunked myths and provable factual inaccuracies are found in one chapter, I think it's then fair for people to take a pass and to criticize the work. It would not be fair to actually publish a review in a journal, newspaper, etc. without reading the book.

I think it is becoming more and more clear that Rocky Pamplin's admittedly insider view of the band for a few years was and is most effectively conveyed by anecdotes and stories as related within the context of *another* book on the band that has a wider scope. Indeed, this describes the Gaines "Heroes and Villains" book.

An author first has to have the story and facts regarding the band straight. Then, they have to be able to vet and feel out stories and anecdotes related by people such as Pamplin.

Now, to be fair, while there have been some passing references to this book telling the story of the band, it is, I guess, generally being marketed as a "Rocky Pamplin Autobiography" written with a co-writer. So I guess we can't expect someone writing their own autobiography to then hand it off to someone who actually knows about the Beach Boys to turn it into a biography on the band.

But, whatever the book is, it does delve into the BB story, and that chapter has grossly inaccurate information.

Separately, there are number of obviously subjective opinions expressed in the chapter that I think many fans/experts/historians would say call into question many elements of the work. Specifically, it's portrayal of Mike Love as "holding the band together", and other glowingly positive statements about Mike Love. To be clear, I'm not looking for a bash job. Even folks who have written books from a decidedly non-Love-centric point of view such as Jon Stebbins or even Timothy White or Peter Ames Carlin have given Mike his due.

But I'm sorry, when Mike takes the license to use the "Beach Boys" name, brings in David Marks, and within the span a few months both Carl Wilson and Al Jardine are gone from the band, that is the *exact opposite* of holding the band together.

Further, it's generally agreed upon that it was Carl Wilson that was the peacekeeper that held things together for decades, and also held things together musically. Note that when Carl left in 1981-82, the band went off the deep end in terms of quality of the live shows. *And*, when Carl passed away, the Al-Mike thing immediately completely crumbled.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension prediction thread on: December 07, 2018, 07:18:53 AM
I've only had a chance to dip my toe into this stuff so far, but it's as mind-blowing as promised. Thanks to Alan Boyd, Mark Linett, Howie Edelson, and everybody else who made this thing happen. They're fighting the good fight for the Beach Boys archives, which as we've discussed (and continues to be proved) is the most impressive repository of amazing wholly unreleased recorded material that likely exists. And they're still turning up stuff we didn't even know existed, like that "Passing By" rewrite.

And think about it, we haven't even hit the 70s yet.....
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension prediction thread on: December 06, 2018, 01:26:05 PM
I would think keeping everything in this thread would work best, perhaps with a revising of the thread title.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Surfin' Safari Cover (if shot today) on: December 06, 2018, 08:37:21 AM
This page tracks modern (relatively) locations for both the PS and Surfin' Safari album covers:

10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension prediction thread on: December 06, 2018, 06:55:41 AM
Can't wait to get a chance to hear this stuff....
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension prediction thread on: December 06, 2018, 06:34:43 AM
"I Can Hear Music: The 20/20 Sessions"

12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension prediction thread on: December 06, 2018, 06:33:33 AM
"Wake The World: The Friends Sessions"

13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 05, 2018, 02:10:06 PM
Fair enough assessment and I don't pretend that the book is a history of the Beach Boys. But of all the other Beach Boys books, none of them started with someone who was there day in and day out, inside the story, behind the scenes, for any length of time. It's a pretty cool peek into somewhere no other book has gone.
A historian, I, and certainly Rocky, ain't.

I'm gonna get a chapter posted for Smile.

The aforementioned Gary Usher book covering the 1986-87 period is certainly a case of someone who was there day in, day out.

Beyond obviously the Brian and Mike autobiographies, there are other books that get in-depth interviews with people who were in the fold even longer than Rocky. For instance, Jon Stebbins's "The Real Beach Boy" talks to lifelong Dennis friends and associates.

And of course the Stebbins/David Marks book is from an insider point of view.

Jim Murphy's "Becoming the Beach Boys" is an unparalleled work on the band's early years; by going back and digging into some Mark Lewisohn-level primary research, I'd frankly trust that book *more* than the half-century-old recollections of some folks.

I'm not at all interested in turning away from the not-so-fun side of the BB story. Despite its shortcomings, the Steven Gaines "Heroes and Villains" book got a lot of the story out there that needed to be out there. But, while Gaines seemed to have a varying amount of interest among the different eras of the band, he tackled not one small era of the band, but the whole story (up to 1986 or whenever that book was published). The particular book was the first to dive into the whole Rocky Pamplin part of the story. I doubt many fans knew the name Pamplin before that book. So I'm not opposed to that part of the story being out there. But fans and scholars have to weigh the angle/credibility, etc. accordingly. Trust me, BB fans and scholars have waded into countless books, and the knowledgeable fans are pretty good at sniffing out what's great, what's okay, what's questionable but still contains some important info, and the rest. For instance, a year or two ago a Carl Wilson biography was published. It was well-intentioned; author seemed like a nice guy, but it just didn't have much new information and skipped over the last years/decade+ of Carl's life. Take something like Scott Wilson's "Son of a Beach Boy." That book definitely needed a good editor/co-author, but the content was too important to let any of that get in the way.

Let it also be known that I don't always agree with all fans on books. For instance, some don't rate Gaines's "Heroes and Villains" too highly. But to me, despite a myriad of shortcomings, it's an important work until someone else comes along and does a better job.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread on: December 05, 2018, 11:52:29 AM
Hearing Al sounds so good singing "Winter Symphony" makes me pine again for him to do a full-blown "deep cuts" show doing both his and other members' songs. His solo "Postcards" shows are great, but imagine Al fronting a full band doing "Goin' On" and "The Trader" and whatnot with he and Matt and other guys doing the leads (with Al doing as much as possible).

Al sounds great on the '77 XMas tracks.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 05, 2018, 11:49:05 AM

My overview on what Rocky recounted to me is a stone cold professional's assessment of the Beach Boys history. Walk a mile in my shoes and read the book before you stomp on me.
Otherwise, you're the one blowing smoke.

While this is less about what's in the book than some of the characterizations you've made here, you do realize that Rocky Pamplin was only involved with the group for a short portion of their history, right? Sure, he stayed in varying degrees of contact with other people who had varying degrees of contact with the band.

But, I'm guessing, Rocky Pamplin has not first hand knowledge of what occured, say, in the 60s, or the mid-late 90s, or the 2012 reunion, etc.

Does the book portend a thorough history of the band's entire career? Or does it start and end mostly with Rocky's stint with the group, with then a few tangential items outside of those years? If it's the latter, then your book nor your words are really characterizing the band's "history", but rather one small portion of it.

Have you read McParland's "The Wilson Project" (preferably the updated 2013 edition), which focuses on Brian's circa 1986 work with Usher? That's a book that has a very detailed breakdown of one small section of Brian's life/career, but doesn't pretend to then deduce any grand final judgements on his life or career.

So, and again this pertains more to posts on this thread rather than specifically the book, if a book is co-written by someone whose stint with the group included Carl Wilson's short run of drug/alcohol difficulties, and who is arguably most famous in the BB sphere for punching out said member of the group while the member was intoxicated/high, then it becomes problematic that that one short section of Carl's life/career becomes the centerpiece of discussion.

It appears this leads to subsequent assessments of Carl's career posted here on this thread that paint him as unprofessional (while pointing to Mike Love as the consummate professional of the band), and such an assessment shows a *glaring* case of tunnel vision of focusing so much on a roughly two-year period where Carl had a rough time.

This isn't a case of BB fans being in denial. I would imagine Carl's story is more complex than any book has yet told. But we have *ample* evidence from Carl's roughly 36-year career in the music business. Whatever one wants to say about his career (and there are plenty of things to criticize; his solo albums aren't exactly A-list material), making a broad judgment of Carl as "unprofessional" and "inconsistent" is *not* something supported by that ample evidence.

Again, the co-author has been kind enough to speak to some of what he did or didn't know going into working with Pamplin on this book. Using Pamplin as a primary source to characterize the group's entire history is justifiably going to cause fans and scholars concerns. I'd say the same thing if McParland had used Usher to draw broad conclusions about the entire band. Same thing with any narrow-focus biography/autobiography related to the band.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread on: December 05, 2018, 08:18:58 AM
I also wasn't aware that Al mainly sings "Winter Symphony." Brian is in there too, but it's mostly Al. Sounds quite good.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 05, 2018, 07:27:16 AM
I think you are ill advised if you think the book "trashes" Carl. It doesn't. Contempt prior to investigation is your loss. It's a pretty darn good book. BTW, that's a lovely story about Carl. I wish I would have heard it before. That's the exact kind of tale we would have gone out of our way to include.

By the way, I had never heard of the Smile site before I was lucky enough to get involved with this project. I was just a guy that loved the Beach Boys music, no matter where or how it evolved. It is part of my musical DNA. I'm touched by the members of this site, whether I agree or disagree with them.
My over riding response is "youse guys rock, good on ya."
That's sounds a bit sappy, so keep on swinging at me, I can take it.

Ideally we could all get a good sampling of the book (the "Look Inside!" bits on Amazon don't really offer enough), and I don't think anybody who hasn't read the book is trying to give it a full review.

But when you say things like this in a previous post:

Now, there's no doubt that Carl and Dennis were talented and both superior musicians, but they were not consummate professional entertainers consistently. Say what you will. MIKE LOVE WAS.

People get understandably nervous or skeptical reading stuff like that, because it seems as though you're offering a sort of "big picture" assessment of them. And if that's the case, then the statement above is grossly and demonstrably false. Carl perhaps above all else was noted for his professionalism and consistency on stage. Indeed, a main criticism of Carl (and the other guys, including Mike) in the later era (e.g. 90s) was that, at worst, they were sometimes simply on "autopilot" doing shows. The setlist might be stale, the performances perhaps a bit rote. But what Carl never was outside of that *very brief* era in 1977-78 was unprofessional or inconsistent.

Are you familiar with the band's 1981 tour? Go watch a 1979 or 1980 show, and then check out a 1981 show after Carl left. The band almost literally fell apart musically. With Mike running full steam in 1981 without Carl, the band was the exact opposite of professional and consistent. It was trainwreck status.

If all of these characterizations of Carl *are* only in reference to 1977-78, then of course it's all being overblown and overstated and overemphasized.

Whether it's actually the case or not, this book is coming across as being written by someone who had little "hardcore/scholarly" knowledge of the band, then used Pamplin's small window of intimate familiarity with the band (not coincidentally including that same 1977-78 timeframe), and is using that small timeframe to make larger, more broad judgments and assessments of the band.

That all being said, even noted Beach Boys author Jon Stebbins pointed out in his Dennis Wilson biography that really the *only* person holding that 1978 Australian tour together was Al Jardine. Carl was out of commission, Brian was lost, Dennis was actually on extant footage/audio the most "together" of the three Wilsons, Mike's shtick was wearing thin (nobody was into hearing "Country Pie" a year after "Pacific Ocean Blue"), and it was Al Jardine by default holding the thing together with scotch tape and glue. The same thing was true in 1981.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread on: December 05, 2018, 07:12:51 AM
Interesting.... I figured "Winter Symphony" was probably gone for good after opening night. Glad someone managed to capture it.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 04, 2018, 02:16:08 PM
Considering that the "Pamplin era" of the BBs coincides with the "Free living vs. TM'ers" era of the group, and that this divide within the band was a key political issue of that era, I'd say it's probably important to know that the co-author of the book is a long-time TM practitioner.

While that nor anything of that sort should preclude someone from writing a book on the subject, I think it's fair to wonder if a long-time TM practitioner, and one that apparently went into writing this book without a deep, hardcore understanding of the band's history, might be more sympathetic to Mike's "side" during that era (or any era for that matter).

I think one of the few times a journalist delved into the dichotomy of Mike espousing the calming virtues and benefits of TM versus his arguably litigious nature and seeming anger/bitterness, etc. was the 2016 Rolling Stone piece. Here's a bit from that one:

In 2005, Love sued Brian once again, this time for “shamelessly misappropriat[ing] Mike Love’s songs, likeness and the Beach Boys trademark” during the promotion of Brian’s belatedly released Smile album, mainly because a tiny picture of Love with the Beach Boys found its way onto a promotional CD given out in a British newspaper. A judge dismissed all of the claims and said the copyright aspect “bordered on frivolous.” But far from suing Brian at every opportunity, shouldn’t Love, with all his years of meditation, have been the one to step forward and try to make peace?

He blinks at the question, rolls his eyes and curls his lip.

“When somebody in your family suffers from a mental illness, sometimes it’s gone past the opportunity to have a normal relationship,” he says. “I mean, there may be a feeling that, ideally, you would like to see peace in the family. And I have nothing but sympathy for Brian. But when you say ‘peace,’ that would presuppose everything is peaceful. Well, when somebody has chosen a path or direction in life that has led to some pretty unhappy situations, everything isn’t all right.”

And he’s completely serious. It’s out of his hands. There’s nothing he can do. It’s enough to make you bang your head against the statue of Shiva, the Indian god of destruction, that stands in his house, or turn upside down the framed photograph of him, George Harrison, John Lennon, Donovan and others hanging out with the Maharishi back in the day. Then again, in 1968, Love said, “One of the greatest things [about Transcendental Meditation] that interested me was that [the Maharishi] said, ‘You don’t have to give up your Rolls-Royce and forsake all your pursuits of material pleasures to develop inner-spiritual qualities.’ That sounded real good to me.” And maybe all the lawsuits could be considered part of those pursuits, too, and thus fully justifiable, at least on an inner-spiritual level.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Brian documentary! on: December 03, 2018, 01:00:57 PM
I hope they snagged Al (and Blondie) for some interviews. The story of Al and Brian reconnecting (after a sort of false start back in 2006/07) is an important one when it comes to Brian's last 20 years.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 03, 2018, 12:40:54 PM
Equating Dennis's and Carl's drug/alcohol abuse in terms of how it impacted the band and band members would have to show a gross lack of understanding of the band's history.

Carl's off-the-rails issues lasted a pretty short amount of time, whereas Dennis had more serious problems, longer-lasting problems, and obviously Dennis's heart-breaking demise indicates how more more severe his problems were.

Sure, there have been subtle and not-so-subtle implications that Carl's drinking continued to be an issue for years after his 1976-1978-ish issues. But if that was the case, it was 100% behind the scenes and didn't impact anything to do with the band. Even Mike Love, who has not been shy about barfing out ample negative points pertaining to "the Wilsons'" use of drugs and alcohol, has never indicated Carl was an issue at all after 1978.

Check out any live performance from 1979 to the end in 1997. Not once have I ever seen or heard on stage (or in any other interview or studio recording, etc.) the overt on-stage inebriation Carl seemed to display on some extant 1977 and 1978 recordings.

Is there deep, dark, unknown things about all of these guys that we don't know? Surely, as with anyone. But I'm not sure why there is an overemphasis of the "crazy Wilsons" in that 1977-78 timeframe. Make not mistake, that era was a strained moment in the band's career that is absolutely important to document. They nearly did arguably reach the point of breaking up in September of 1977. Or as near as they ever came in the pre-1998 era. But that "free living vs. the TM'ers" thing (or whatever it was being called) was a pretty short blip in the history of the band.

Honing in predominantly on Carl's career during the short period of time he was doing drugs and getting punched out by Rocky would be like knowing nothing about Brian Wilson and then *only* reading the Usher diaries books. It would give insight into a small section of the story, but ignore the other 50+ years before and after.

If one were trying to convey the band's history (or, even if only focusing on a short era, also bring in some details about what happened in the years of aftermath), it would be key to point out how drastically the band politics changed in the 80s. By the 90s, it was Al Jardine on the outs and Brian largely out of the picture. Carl apparently was largely resigned to Mike running the band, it would appear.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2018 Tour Thread on: December 03, 2018, 10:52:13 AM
Mike makes a mention of the hectic touring schedule of the current group in his autobiography, and it's kind of interesting(to me, at least). He basically says it goes back to the time in the late 1960's and early 1970's when The Beach Boys really had to hustle and work their butts off to more or less save and rebuild their career. Mike more or less admits to a lingering fear that it could happen again.

That could factor in, but I think that also ignores some of the other obvious potential reasons: Lots of money, and also a sort of "possession is 9/10 of the law" sort of mentality in the last 20 years of keeping *his* thing going so it can't revert to other hands. Make no mistake, Mike likes being the "face" of whatever the Beach Boys on a live stage are at this point.

I find it hard to believe fear of, what, going broke?, would be a huge factor. Perhaps to some degree, people's brains can do weird things. But given his openness in sharing his extravagant, lavish lifestyle on Facebook (look, we need a 20-foot-latter to decorate the tree!), anyone would be hard pressed to think Mike would be living in the gutter if he just scaled back touring.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2018 Tour Thread on: December 03, 2018, 09:21:53 AM
I've seen reviews (and also seen/heard recordings of shows) that demonstrate Mike's band has its ups and downs as well.

That pro-shot private show from last year that disappeared pretty quickly had the band in relatively ragged form, surely due to excessive touring (the 14 shows in 15 nights sort of thing I've talked about before).

I also think both Mike and Brian (and probably Bruce though we don't hear much singing from him) are continuing to (understandably) see aging-related issues, completely separate from any other potential issues they might have going on. They're coming up on 80 years old. They've both shown much more longevity than most fans would have ever expected, but even if the "aging process" isn't as noticeable for them as we my have thought decades ago when pondering the idea of 75+-year-old BBs touring, they are still aging, even if more "slowly" than some others have.

Except Al Jardine. He defies nature. I challenge anybody to find someone who can sound so markedly similar to how they sounded 50+ YEARS AGO.

I guess it's too cold and cynical (and unrealistic) to suggest Mike and Brian go into semi-retirement and let Al go out there to "keep the name alive", but one has to ponder it. Ideally at this stage, I think a lot of fans would be happy to see everybody take some time off next year, and then regroup for a TRUE "farewell" tour, and then anybody that wants to keep doing *less hectic* touring could continue to do so either under their true solo names, or work out some sort of branded BRI thing to equally use the BB name to sell their respective solo shows and also "keep the name alive", somthing like "The Beach Boys Present Mike Love", "The Beach Boys Present Brian Wilson", "The Beach Boys Present Al Jardine."
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension prediction thread on: December 03, 2018, 09:12:45 AM
Billy -- As it stands THIS week, the "I'm Confessin'"/"You're As Cool As Can Be" segments along with DW's "Well You Know I Knew" and "'Gong' session" are the ones that are killing me. But it's all major and along with the MASSIVE live component also coming, nobody will be pissed off about and/or second guessing the copyright drop this Xmas.

Awesome! Thank you for the always, we’re blessed to have you as a true steward of the bands legacy.

This is a great time to be fan. We’re finally getting materials we’ve only dreamed of. Man I hope my health holds up cause I really want to  be around to hear unreleased Brian stuff from 1972-1975

Let's also hope that some sort of ramped-up online archival program might still be possible so that we wouldn't have to wait until 2025 to hear 1975 material.

While not obviously anywhere near all A-list material, there is a ton of later 70s and 80s unreleased stuff that can even change *that* part of the narrative. I don't know if they should wait another decade to release "LA (Light Album)" era outtakes, etc. BB fans are not exactly getting younger.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension prediction thread on: December 03, 2018, 09:09:15 AM
Hey -I actually like "When Girls Get Together"...

It has grown on me to some degree over the years, and I think in the context of the "Sunflower" era it feels a bit more "right" to me than plopped on an already-problematic KTSA album in 1980. A lot of the KTSA album plods and sounds rather limp. "When Girls..." doesn't help *that* aspect of the album.

Some members of the band clearly had some affinity for the song, as they had previously done a mix of the song in the "15 Big Ones" era as well apparently.
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