gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 08:55:13 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
  Show Posts
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 86
1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Which studio album showcases The Beach Boys at their peak as a vocal group? on: May 07, 2023, 02:03:41 PM
For me, the Smile Sessions really showcase the intricacy of their vocal blend.  Cabinessence (esp Iron Horse), Heroes and Villains and Vegetables are on another level of genius in terms of vocal arranging and performing.

After that, Sunflower.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Did David Beard open a door for a physical boxset for SMILEY/HONEY/FRIENDS/2020? on: March 01, 2023, 09:16:59 AM
During a BeachBoys Talk interview, Alan Boyd mentioned there's something that was found that would "blow people's minds". It's from Chuck Britz's collection. Whatever it is, I'd hope they are pushing for that to be released some time in the not too distant future.

Maybe it's something Smile-related, in which case they could release it with stereo mixes of Smile.

The completed Heroes and Villains Part 1 and Part 2 single, which Chuck remembers as being finished and mixed?
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: No earworm in Brian's music? on: November 19, 2022, 06:58:44 PM
So many . . .

Don’t Worry Baby
Time to Get Alone
Wendy
She Knows Me Too Well
Good to My Baby
California Girls
Country Air
Aren’t You Glad
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack) on: September 21, 2022, 06:32:37 AM
Why  does I'm Broke on this CD sound so bad?  It's murky and distorted like it comes from an acetate or low gen tape copy.  The version I have on boot (and is up on youtube) sounds much better.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Heroes autumn '66 - so few sessions on: September 09, 2022, 12:05:25 PM
Organ waltz was March 1 1967, wasn't it?  And I don't believe any lyrics would have been on it, it was an instrumental transition track (unless wordless vocals were planned like in Fall Breaks).
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Heroes autumn '66 - so few sessions on: September 09, 2022, 10:04:05 AM
Intro was originally "Part 3"  so was to follow Part 2 - so I assume that it would have gone cantina/organ waltz (intro)/children were raised/3rd verse/whistle/OMP Part 2 fade.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE was ready in 1967 - discuss on: September 09, 2022, 07:21:43 AM
That's interesting because it fits perfectly with the Worms lyrics, but doesn't fit into the lyrical story of Heroes and Villains which is all in the first person.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Heroes autumn '66 - so few sessions on: September 09, 2022, 07:19:46 AM
I'll be sure to check it out.  Thanks.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Heroes autumn '66 - so few sessions on: September 08, 2022, 05:49:49 PM
Where do you hear children were raised after the take of organ waltz?  Is this on a boot somewhere?  I don’t hear it on Smile Sessions. 
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE was ready in 1967 - discuss on: September 07, 2022, 09:09:56 AM
The BR lyrics were for H&V so they don't belong in Worms.  However if your own version of H&V doesn't include them then Worms is the obvious place to put them Smiley

Quote
It's on Sounds of Summer in stereo - first verse and chorus without lead vocals, second verse with backing vocals and second chorus with BR lead vocals (put on in January), the bridge with vocals.  All the individual parts without any vocals are on the Smile Sessions box but not put together if I remember correctly.

The BR lyrics weren't recorded until January but I see no indication they weren't written for Worms - all the other lyrics for Worms were written and the BR instrumental part was recorded at the same time as the rest of the song.  What do you think Brian was going to do with the BR section of Worms, leave it instrumental?  And the BR lyrics totally fit the song.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Heroes autumn '66 - so few sessions on: September 06, 2022, 06:12:43 PM

It's also worth mentioning (or re-mentioning? I can't keep track of what's been said) that the organ waltz "intro" from months later is not actually an intro, and was never labelled that way - that's something that was lost in translation when the GV box set was made, and the label stuck for TSS too. Brian starts to play "my children were raised..." after that piece on the tape, for what it's worth.

The March organ waltz then Intro to Heroes was marked on the tape box as Intro to Part 2, wasn’t it, and logged as a Heroes session?  Since Brian had been working on a side B for a 2 sided Heroes single in February after the cantina mix was finished, the presumption is this was to be an intro to the second side of the single.  Musically it’s identical to the Chimes Part 3, although as pointed out that Part 3 would have followed the A side’s Part 2 which was first Great Shape, then Bicycle Rider, and finally cantina.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE was ready in 1967 - discuss on: September 06, 2022, 06:53:29 AM
Well, the two tapes are literally spliced together. Bicycle Rider was cut from the complete assembly of Worms (literally cut, with a razor), and pasted after the verse of Heroes and Villains, which came on the same tape reel.

When you say complete assembly of Worms, was this edited together as a potential finished backing track, or is it just the pieces lined up on one reel?

The backing track pieces for Worms were dubbed to a second generation 4-track and edited together at the initial session. Vocals were overdubbed onto the full edited composite track, much like Good Vibrations, which isn't the approach Brian took with most of the rest of the Smile material. It was later copied to 8-track for more work, and that's the tape where Bicycle Rider has been spliced out and edited onto the Heroes verses.

A mono reel from December 27 (which is missing from the box, but what was on it survives via acetates) contained the Cabin Essence chorus, two mixes of Bicycle Rider, and the Heroes opening verses. The contents are listed as:
1 - PORTION OF CABINESSENCE (WHO RAN THE IRON HORSE)
2 - PORTION OF HEROES AND VILLAINS (BICYCLE RIDERS) ['(INDIANS)' crossed out]
3 - same as 2
4 - PORTION OF HEROES AND VILLAINS - OPENING

Intentions with the CE chorus aren't completely clear, but Vosse did make a muddled comment about Brian wanting to put Bicycle Rider and Iron Horse together at some point. Likely the next day, Brian recorded "Heroes and Villains Part 3" (on the face of it would naturally follow "Part 2", aka Bicycle Rider) which is more or less a reworking of the Iron Horse music.

Okay, follow up question (I meant to ask this at the time and never got around to it) - if I wanted to hear a reconstruction of that initial Worms track, ideally both with and without the vocals, as it stood before Brian spliced out Bicycle Rider, where would I look? Is such a thing on the Smile Sessions box?

It's on Sounds of Summer in stereo - first verse and chorus without lead vocals, second verse with backing vocals and second chorus with BR lead vocals (put on in January), the bridge with vocals.  All the individual parts without any vocals are on the Smile Sessions box but not put together if I remember correctly.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Heroes autumn '66 - so few sessions on: September 04, 2022, 03:46:21 PM
Part 3 is the “chimes “ version of Intro to Heroes (kind of similar to Iron Horse ) recorded in December.

There was an acetate auctioned a few years ago that has the Shape remake/Children we’re raised/ third verse instrumental edit.  The Shape remake was recorded mid December at a session logged as Heroes - the session players and instruments match.  Part of this Shape remake was released on one of the copyright Beach Boys releases - it was a phone recording of part of the acetate by Alan.  Children were raised - instrumental track - was re-recorded later but according to those who have heard the acetate this was an earlier take on it.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Heroes autumn '66 - so few sessions on: September 04, 2022, 02:16:00 PM
Autumn extends into December so in Autumn Brian had the instrumental verses/Barnyard, I’m in Great Shape, a remake of Great Shape, children were raised section leading into the third verse, plus H& V Part 3.  According to Ed Roach, I believe, sunny down snuff was attempted at a December vocal session.  There were several vocal sessions but not much has survived.  When were the split Brian/Mike verse vocals recorded?  I have no doubt the a capella section was to be included early on as it comes up in every mix we have.

At some point Shape and Barnyard were rejected but it’s confusing as to when that happened.  Shape is a separate song on the track list the first week of December but after that Brian records a new version of Shape at a Heroes session and does a rough edit with children were raised and the third verse which has survived on acetate.  In January Brian is recording vocals on Bicyclerider and awkwardly editing it into the Heroes verse section.  Even with Bridge to Indians is recorded the BR section is rejected and cantina is written with Van Dyke making it the new Part 2 and My Only Sunshine fade replaces Barnyard - and we have the A side of the single.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Elements - wahey :) on: August 26, 2022, 11:46:47 AM
The water chant (spooky section) of CCW was recorded during the Wild Honey sessions but something along the same lines may have been attempted in Dec at the aborted Surfs Up vocal session that resulted in the Brian piano demo.  At least the Inside Pop reels are suggestive of that happening.

It is hard to ignore those Elements chants particularly considering the timeline.  Brian was trying out ideas to use for the missing three elements.  But it would have been a strange suite if something as fully orchestrated and realized as Fire was followed by three different chants.  He was looking for inspiration but he likely would still have had to write music to go with any chants he was considering for the The Elements.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Elements - wahey :) on: August 25, 2022, 04:18:06 PM
As late as April Brian was still talking in the press about a four part Elements suite, and that the track was giving him trouble.  The artwork predated the track list by a couple of months so yes originally Vegetables was to be earth but then it became its own track.

It's unclear what Brian was going to do with the water sounds - Vosse make no mention of them being connected to a "water" track or intending to be used as notes in a song.  Remember Brian was also talking about a sound effects album (and a comedy album) at this time.  Even when Stephen repeated Michael's work recording water sounds and feeding them into a synthesizer that Brian could then "play" the sounds as notes for Sunflower, this time clearly for a song (Cool Cool Water), Brian never touched the thing and used the regular synthesizer instead.

Would Brian have cannibalized other Smile tracks to get sections for earth, air and water?  As you note Barnyard would make a nice earth section, but wasn't it more likely going into the IIGS track?  It seems clear that Brian never made a decision and apparently never recorded (and likely never wrote) any of the other sections.  He should have just renamed the track "The Element" and left it as fire only, that was mind-blowing enough on its' own.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE was ready in 1967 - discuss on: July 30, 2022, 04:21:53 PM
I don’t believe there has been mention of two associations of Dada with Water.  The first one is in the Preiss book where Dada is associated with water but the track described is not Dada, I believe it’s the water chant which of course was not a Smile track but came later.  The second is in 1972 when Carl announced the imminent release of Smile and listed one of the tracks as “I Love to Say Dada(incorporating Cool Cool Water).”  This is well before any bootlegs used Dada as the Water element and probably was the reason the boots identified Dada with water.

I’m not sure where the assertion that the water chant was to be used as the fade of the Wild Honey Cool Cool Water comes from.  Is that on a tape box or on a session slate?

18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE was ready in 1967 - discuss on: July 30, 2022, 04:07:04 PM
Here are two articles I referenced in the last post, for anyone interested in Brian and his studies of religion and spirituality in 1966:





Bill Tobelman's website does a great job trying to tie all of this together with published examples and background history, I highly recommend anyone interested check it out too. It's clearly something Brian was involved with and something that inspired the music too.



Jim McGuinn aka Roger was also involved with Subdud.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE was ready in 1967 - discuss on: July 23, 2022, 12:29:33 PM
As for The Elements being abandoned after Mrs O’Leary’s Cow was finished, I don’t believe that - because the April 67 NME article that states all 12 tracks for Smile are complete - which we of course know NOT to be true - qualifies that statement with Brian saying:  except for one track, The Elements . . . And says something about that track giving him trouble.  Don’t have the quote handy but it’s in LLVS.  So he was still considering the Elements a lot track for the album and it was unfinished meaning it was more than just Fire.  I believe the quote even mentions it as a 4 part suite consisting of earth air fire and water.  

As for Bruce talking about Smile I believe Smile was still considered the name of the next album but what that album was going to include was evolving and Brian wasn’t communicating that to his band mates probably because he was struggling with those decisions himself.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE was ready in 1967 - discuss on: July 21, 2022, 03:21:43 PM
Derek... worked for their Beach Boys as their publicist? Are you seriously contending that there's any possibility it didn't run through Brian, or that someone else passed the word to Derek who didn't communicate with Brian at all before writing and publishing it?

If Derek was their publicist, and had all this information about the tour, the musicians, even the airplane, then why were the Beach Boys seemingly unaware the album had been "scrapped" when interviewed shortly *after* this piece was published? Read the comment from Bruce especially, but also Mike and Dennis too, they're talking as if the album is still being worked on and will come out. That's odd considering their publicist probably would have told them at some point, right?



"If Derek was their publicist"? He... was? He was that? Yes?

It's not exactly a gigantic semantic leap from "scrapped" to "Brian doesn't want to use most of the things he's recorded over the last several months and complete the list of songs the record label are expecting".

Word is they were also working with another publicist for that leg of the tour, I'll get his name when I can. But seriously though, no one told the band that the album had been scrapped after Taylor's article appeared? They talk as if they had no idea, and that Smile would be coming out. Not that it was scrapped, shelved, put in the can, or whatever semantic would fit.  Smiley

There are two different Smile albums at play here.  There is the originally planned 12 track Smile with the associated tracks and songs Brian worked on from August 66- March 67.  This is what Derek Taylor is saying has been sealed in a can and "scrapped."  Someone - presumably Brian - informed him that he was abandoning these tracks (but not necessarily the songs, as we see with Smiley).  As has been pointed out, Dada was Brian starting something new, whether for a B side of a single or a track for an album.

Then there is Smile as the name of "the next Beach Boys album" - whatever Brian decided it would consist of.  That's what the Beach Boys are talking about.  An album was continuing to be worked on.  An album would eventually come out.  And to be fair to them, Brian probably wasn't communicating to Mike, Al, Carl et al what he was going to exclude or include on "the next album" from what he had been recording - as it turns out very little was included, only about half of Heroes and the end of Vegetables.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE was ready in 1967 - discuss on: July 19, 2022, 10:31:21 AM
I mean, yes and no. I strongly agree that the album was close enough to finished that it’s quite possible to *imagine* what a finished album might have sounded like. I also believe that the Brian was absolutely capable of finishing Smile, and that the reason Smile wasn’t finished was because Brian stopped working on it in a way that made sense or matched with how he had always worked up until that point, and began obsessively rerecording Heroes and Villains instead of finishing the other tracks. That said, there was absolutely still a lot of work to be done.

Re: sequence. The Look Listen Vibrate Smile track sequence represents the general fan-consensus from the 1990s, more or less (and probably helped create it!). There is a kind of intuitive logic to how it fits together, which is why, I think, it has provided the rough template for so many fan mixes up to the present day. However—and I would love to be proven wrong on this—I don’t believe I have ever seen any evidence whatsoever that Brian had *decided* on a sequence in 1966 or 67, let alone that we have any way of knowing what it might have been. The only sequence-related evidence I know of is that Our Prayer would have gone first and been unlisted. Everything else is conjecture. Does it make sense for Heroes to go first, Surf’s Up to go last, the “life” songs to go on the A side and the “element” songs to go on the B side? Sure. Do we have evidence for any of those ideas? I’d love to see it if we do.

Re: track list. This is a contentious topic as well. Personally, I believe that Brian was still enough in command of the process in late ’66 and early ’67 that he must have approved the track list given to Capital Records, that he was aware it was being printed on jackets, and that he planned to use it. I also believe that Smile would have consisted of 12 discretely-banded songs with fades (there are just too many fades recorded for it to be otherwise!), although I suspect some of those fades would not have been faded, making them functionally “link tracks”.

So what was left to do when Smile was abandoned, in my view? The vast majority of songs were in literal pieces. They needed to be "assembled" for lack of a better word, from the various session tapes, mixed down to a finished backing track, and have any missing vocals recorded. For most of these songs, Brian could probably have done this in a session or two, had he put his mind to it. But Surf's Up, the Elements, and I'm in Great Shape still needed much more extensive recording, and Child is the Father of the Man needed lyrics.

Track by track:

Do You Like Worms? - instrumental track needed to be assembled, lead vocal needed to be recorded. This one is a tragedy, in my view, because the Beach Boys could have done this at any point up to the 1980s and given us a track as finished-sounding as Cabin Essence or Surf's Up, two other songs left in fragments and missing vocals in 1967.

Wind Chimes - needed to be assembled, very close.

Heroes and Villains - needed to be assembled, also close, although the question of what to include in it seems to have tortured Brian.

Surf’s Up - Second Movement and Third Movement tracks needed to be arranged and recorded, backing vocals needed to be recorded, lead vocal needed to be recorded. It is very important to remember that the 70s version simply does not represent what Brian would have done with this track in 1967. It is unquestionable that parts 2 and 3 would have gotten backing tracks as sophisticated and beautiful as part 1. What we got instead was a sweetened piano demo. Another heartbreaking loss, in my view.

Good Vibrations - finished

Cabin Essence - backing track needed to be assembled, lead vocal needed to be recorded. This was done in '68, but when the project was abandoned this one was left in a similar state to Do You Like Worms.

Wonderful - track needed to be assembled. Unclear (to me, anyway) what the intention was for the fade, though Brian seems to have planned one.

I’m in Great Shape - track needed to be assembled, possibly additional instrumental sessions needed, vocals needed to be recorded. Possible that Brian didn’t actually know what all the pieces were going to be for this one.

Child is Father of the Man - we have a finished backing track for this, but the lead vocal not only needed to be recorded but Van Dyke doesn’t seem to have gotten around to writing the lyrics. The surviving track makes clear enough, in my view, that this was intended to be a proper song with verses.

The Elements - I believe the evidence is incontrovertible that this would have consisted of four short instrumental (or wordless vocal) pieces, one for each element. Fire needed backing vocals. Earth and Air were yet to be recorded. Status of “water” unclear. This one still needed a lot of work.

Vega-Tables - needed to be assembled, but very close.

the Old Master Painter - needed to be assembled. If Brian had used a version of Heroes and Villains (like the Cantina mix) that used the Old Master Painter fade, than it’s a little unclear what the status of this track would have been, but barring that, it was basically finished.

Excellent summary.  For Wonderful, besides the tag it seems clear Brian intended Carl to sing it.  It seems Brian rejected his original attempt that we now all know and love, recorded two new versions of it - the awful Rock with me Henry version, and then a new track with some beautiful backing vocals  in April at the Vegetables sessions, left unfinished.  If he had completed Smile would he have completed the April version, recorded a new version, or reverted back to the August/October Brian lead vocal take?  

I'm in Great Shape - I'm convinced Barnyard would have been part of the song (essentially making this the "Barnyard suite") but as you say what else he would have included, or if other sections were to be recorded (Barnyard Billy?) is unclear.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: July 11, 2022, 10:35:05 AM
Interesting you mention Mo Ostin.  Van Dyke Parks, who worked for WB at the time, was quoted as saying something along the lines of "If they include Surf's Up the next album will be a hit" in the 2 part Rolling Stone article that came out at the time (and fueled many a fan's interest in the Smile tapes, me among them).  So it seems likely Van Dyke was in Mo's ear about the song and that's how he came to request/demand the song be included.

So as far as you remember Stephen there's no truth to the story that Dennis wanted "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again" to follow Til I Die as the final track on the album?
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Cabinessence questions on: March 09, 2022, 07:01:24 AM
Truck Drivin' Man lyrics are Van Dyke (who else could write stuff like that?) and therefor would be likely 66 when the other lyrics were written, or early 67 at the latest.  They appear NOT to be lyrics originally given to Frank Holmes to illustrate because theere doesnt' seem to be any references to them in the two illustrations in the Smile booklet that reference Cabinessence/Home on the Range.  However the unused lyrics "different colored chords to your extension, don’t forget to mention this is a recording …"  are referenced in the illustrations and this may have been another "hidden" verse to go over the Iron Horse chorus or perhaps this was replaced by Truck Drivin' Man.

We have multiple mix attempts at the verses,chorus and tag from 66 and none of these have the Truck Drivin' Man vocals or the lead verse vocals, so it seems certain that these were added later.  When exactly is unclear as the posters above have pointed out.

The issue for me is the point raised in the quote I put in bold: I think there are still too many unknowns to be certain about anything related to Dennis' "Truck Drivin Man" vocal. One factor to consider is how many acetates/dubs/test mixes from 66/67 we do not have, or which have simply been lost or wiped over in the past 6 decades, and if a possibility exists that one of them did in fact have a version of the Dennis vocal on there. We don't know or we don't have a firm recording date for the Dennis vocal, yet we're certain it was added later: But, what if they did add it in '68 and were working from a previous reference dub or acetate which contained the vocal?

My thinking is we know (or seem to agree based on what is known) Brian was not very involved in the '68 sessions as others mentioned above. We know Van Dyke was not involved at all. So consider taking a pretty obscure verse that was written two years before they revisited the track, and trying to match what the original intent would have been when it was written. Carl worked from some of the instrumentation that already existed and which was doubling or tracing the original melody to guide his new lead vocal, but consider how they would have gotten the rhythm and flow of that rhythmic Dennis line two years after the fact without something or someone to guide the performance.

Maybe Brian was there and involved in that part of it? Maybe Carl remembered how it went? Maybe Dennis remembered how it was supposed to go? Or maybe at that time in late '68 a reference mix or an acetate did exist that had an earlier attempt?

Without any information beyond what was published in Badman's book, it's hard for me to rule any possibilities out or say it seems certain something happened in late '68 versus '66/'67. And it truly is a case of being without any definite information, documentation, or recordings to suggest a date for that Dennis vocal unless something exists that hasn't been presented to nail down the date of late '68 for Dennis recording his Truck Drivin Man vocal. Badman's book citing that date isn't hard proof, and neither are the test mixes and dubs we do have of the song considering how many we do not have or which may not exist in any form after they were either wiped, lost, or simply forgotten. So why rule out a possibility if there is no concrete evidence to rule it out?

You are correct we can't rule it out - you make the interesting point that unless Brian discussed the Truck Drivin' Man vocal in 1966 with Dennis, how would they even know where to put it in the song - unless that was a CARL DECISION in 1968.  Perhpas the Truck Drivin' Man lyrics were for a different musical section of the song altogether, was abandoned, and Carl, finding the lyrics, was the one who thought up putting it in the Iron Horse chorus.  I should have said the fact that no mixes of the verses or chorus or tag that we have include the Truck Drivin' Man vocals makes it LIKELY that they were added later rather than in 1966, but nothing can be definitively ruled out. 
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Cabinessence questions on: March 07, 2022, 09:20:16 AM
Truck Drivin' Man lyrics are Van Dyke (who else could write stuff like that?) and therefor would be likely 66 when the other lyrics were written, or early 67 at the latest.  They appear NOT to be lyrics originally given to Frank Holmes to illustrate because theere doesnt' seem to be any references to them in the two illustrations in the Smile booklet that reference Cabinessence/Home on the Range.  However the unused lyrics "different colored chords to your extension, don’t forget to mention this is a recording …"  are referenced in the illustrations and this may have been another "hidden" verse to go over the Iron Horse chorus or perhaps this was replaced by Truck Drivin' Man.

We have multiple mix attempts at the verses,chorus and tag from 66 and none of these have the Truck Drivin' Man vocals or the lead verse vocals, so it seems certain that these were added later.  When exactly is unclear as the posters above have pointed out.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: November 01, 2021, 12:21:50 PM
Unless we're talking about a certain 7 minute plus song.  Shocked (no tongue in cheek emoji I can see, so I've chosen a random one)

I don't really buy into the length being an issue, it came down to other issues.

Yeah...WIBNTLA would have to have been edited somewhat (likely to trim the ending ala MIC) in order to add it to the album and not drop something else. But I agree with you that it came down to other issues. It's also been said that the dispute resulted from Dennis' insistence that the LP close with WIBTLA, following TID, and that placing it anywhere else in the running order would lessen the effect. Once Jack and Carl determined that SU would be the closer, Dennis pulled his song(s) from the project altogether. 

Jack and Carl decided Surf's Up needed to be on the album and to be the closer, and wanted to give the impression that Brian was more involved with the album than he was.  It appears this was felt to be what was needed to enhance the commerciality of the project.  I don't think Jack had a problem with Dennis' songs (he wrote the lyrics to 4th of July) and from everything he's said since he would much rather have jettisoned Al's songs or Mike's SDT than Dennis' songs, if he had a choice.  Dennis wanted more of a say and Carl and Jack had their own ideas of the track order.  Really it was kind of petty for Dennis to pull his songs, but there was definitely a power struggle between Carl and Dennis, and Carl won.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 86
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 1.489 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!