[- Do you censor yourself in any way, and if so, how?]

- Do you censor yourself in any way, and if so, how?

I have to impose predetermined limits on myself, as somebody who doesn't really work from a muse...  I will invariably start a songwriting session with a series of goals, and then go about fulfilling those goals.

For instance, I will pick a certain number of chords to limit myself to through a certain number of measures, or be required to change keys using a dominant substitution, or use a descending melodic sequence.

This is extremely interesting to me, and exactly the kind of answers I was hoping for from that question. I'm also glad somebody else sometimes approaches songwriting from a purely intellectual (or what I might call workmanlike, or craftsman-like) perspective sometimes. As much talk as there is about "inspiration," and while sometimes I feel I've simply been given complete songs, usually there is no mystery to it whatsoever. It's more of: "well, if I don't write more songs, the group won't have any more songs. I guess I'd better write. Hmm...my shoes are red. I'm going to write a song called 'Red Shoes.'" Then it's time to sit down and start working something out.

P.S., yes, I really do have a song called "Red Shoes," and it really was written about the combination of my red Converse All-Stars and my annoyance at having to write songs that sometimes band members complain about (despite not doing any songwriting). I'm a bit of a bitch sometimes.

I like the early loop de loop that was on a Landlocked boot, but not the finished version on the ... Endless Harmony? (I forget) Is that early version considered "Sailplane Song?" I know the demo version on EH is called that.

And let us not forget his great, Brian-esque falsetto in "Be Here in the Morning", the sublime "Lady Lynda", his funky lead to "On Broadway" or the epic "Santa Ana Winds"/ "Looking Down the Coast" either!  Jardine did some good stuff in the seventies.

You know, I really, really dislike almost all of his later 70s stuff. His material from the later years just seems so CHEESY to me, even by Beach Boys standards. All the oldies didn't help (for me) either.

What's with his gimmicky production, though? All those sound effects!

I couldnt actually see the phantom two messages--the "You have new messages" thing just said I had two. When I'd click on Inbox it was empty.

Mr. Boyd, a few of us have been discussing songwriting methods on a thread at the below link. I think I speak for everyone when I say we'd love to hear your thoughts on the subject.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=3526.0

Has anyone else got this new Zappa album? It is a collection of 1972 live instrumentals. I like it.

I have this same thing, btw. I've had it for months, but mostly ignored it. However I just decided to look into it, and when I was going to post, I found this similar problem. Anyone?

I was putting together a Surf's Up-era compilation today (a disc of material that had been recorded by then and either ended up on that album or was still unreleased as of that album) and was thinking about how much I like Al's compositions and co-compositions. It seems Al is most often discussed for his covers or, in a more modern topic, for his voice having remained strongest among the Beach Boys. But to me, songs like Good Time, Susie Cincinnati, Loop de Loop, and even ones people seem to poke fun at, like Take A Load Off... and Don't Go Near the Water, are really pretty good. They're not brilliant or groundbreaking, but they are fun and sometimes clever. And it probably goes without saying that his vocals in those years were really fantastic.

That said, I've got to admit that I don't like Al's work at all in the later 70s and beyond.

Anybody else like those earlier Al songs, or have anything to say on the subject?

And either way, I am not trying to claim that I'm some sort of BB-quote-computer, either. AGD I am not, nor do I want to be.

Well, gee and thanks. It's always nice to know precisely what others think of you, and your contributions, especially in public.

I didn't say anything negative about you, Andrew. I said that I don't have or desire you encyclopedic knowledge of the Beach Boys. I'm pretty happy knowing what would be to an average person a lot, but to a super-fan not necessarily so much. I respect your knowledge.

Is the merit of someone's opinion based on whether he's a pansy or wuss? Just wondering.

...only when it comes to you, mr. vandross

Tremendously witty.

Is the merit of someone's opinion based on whether he's a pansy or wuss? Just wondering.

[never mind.]

[never mind.]

That entire quote certainly isn't on EH, which is the source I had in mind. And either way, I am not trying to claim that I'm some sort of BB-quote-computer, either. AGD I am not, nor do I want to be. All I was trying to get at was a general point (gods forbid): that while the others seem to have taken their jabs here and there, it didn't seem Dennis ever publicly did. My question was, did he?

Nothing in terms of "Brian is a shithead," but Al saying Brian underproduced a song ("Breakaway"), or Bruce saying Brian hadn't really had a great song since Till I die.  Those are criticisms.

Other than Mike Love, has ANYONE ever criticized Brian openly?

Seems to me there have been plenty of criticisms over the years from Mike, Bruce, Al and non-Beach Boys, yes. Which is why I wondered about the most historically pro-Brian line, Dennis.

Some of those comments on BB videos there on YouTube are quite funny. It's hilarious to see how many uneducated people make snide remarks about the band...and their arguments aren't even valid. What idiots. Think before you speak (or type).

The same, of course, can be said for message boards, chat rooms and sites all over the web, not excluding this one.

It occurred to me earlier today as I was thinking about the changes in the Beach Boys' songs--including Brian's--toward a more retro, nostalgia feel in the mid-to-late 70s and into the 80s--that I don't recall ever reading anything in which Dennis was critical of Brian. All of his comments that I've ever read were glowing: the famous "we're his messengers," and "Smile will make Pet Sounds stink," etc.

Considering Dennis' then-very contemporary sounding music in the 70s and Brian's reversion either to what was very anachronistic (Sweet Sunday, It's OK, Wontcha Come Out Tonight and so on) or bizarre (most of Love You), is there evidence of him more than disliking the general direction of the band, but more specifically disliking Brian's work?

Just curious. It's one thing to be a supportive brother, but quite another to follow blindly down a path you disagree with.

Not to stray too far from the topic, but I just want to note that I think the rest of Brian's backing band is pretty amazing vocally, too. Jeff stands out because of his falsetto--hard to miss such soaring lines atop the arrangements--but Darian, Jeff, Nick, Probyn, Nelson, Taylor, not to mention Mike when he was in the group, all make up what has been the most remarkably accurate vocal pop group I've ever heard live.

Not incliuding any Carl or Dennis songs was a big mistake

You know, Carl and Dennis songs wouldn't have fit, though--and in my opinion, that is one of the worst things about every Beach Boys album from here onward. (I love Love You, but it is an oddball one-off compared to everything else) The progressive--or at least of-the-times--sound they had incorporated over the past few studio albums was gone by this time. Can you even imagine something like Feel Flows or Only With You sitting beside It's OK and Rock n Roll Music? To me, this is the album where Brian started phoning it in (Love You not included), tossing in retro or silly songs. Some of them were nice enough, but it's like he said "retro? Oldies? Fine...here. I-vi-IV-V7. Triplets. Knock yourselves out."

I assume they made a ton of money (Endless Summer and popular tours) around this time, but I wish they'd continued down the path of the previous albums, with the younger two Wilsons seemingly in control, Blondie and Ricky in the band and Brian adding a song or two here and there when he felt like it. I miss you, Jack Riely, you big liar.

No apologizes necessary for me forgetting what I say. I just forgot, that's all.

Hmm...I'm no mathematician, but I don't think that works out.

I agree with Luther that With Me Tonight is on par with Our Prayer.

Did I say that? Wow, well I'll be damned. I don't remember that. I don't know if I think it is on par with Prayer, actually...I wonder if I was more drunk than usual when I said so. When did I say so?

(I do love it, by the way. And in fact I probably like it as much as Prayer. But I don't think it is as good as Prayer from a compositional standpoint.)

I decided to use examples, so I have posted yousendit links to songs as I describe them. Feel free to download them if you want--otherwise hopefully my descriptions will suffice.

I subscribe to two simultaneous methods of songwriting. (It's funny, because as I read the Essential Dylan Interviews, I caught glimpses of these same ideas throughout his interviews over the years.) First, I think music, including writing, is a mostly technical craft. It isn't some magical gift from above, but something that people study, practice, etc. And so a lot of the time I give myself exercises, and I fulfill them. I wrote quite a few songs for my bands this way. But at the same time, and somehow not contradictory in my mind, I do the exact opposite--I sit down quickly and for no reason and write music, often among my favorites of all.

1. This first example was an exercise. I had written the basic chord progression of the verse a year or so before (meaning maybe 2003), but that was it. However, while in early rehearsals for my old band Ellen Kay (and these recordings all come from that band), I assigned myself a song after a practice one night. It had just begun raining lightly, and I told myself I'd go for a walk and finish a song before I got back. If I didn't, well, I wouldn't come back. So I walked, repeating lines and melodic fragments--often out loud, making me no doubt seem insane--as I went so I wouldn't forget. The entire thing--words and music--was written and basically arranged while I was getting ready for and then on a walk. It begins very literally, and then I start developing a story as I walk/write.

Go Back to the House
http://download.yousendit.com/FCA803E62E1BE448

2. This second example was written shortly after I got into the Velvet Underground, as a 20-year-old in 1996. The music was written very quickly, as were the basic aspects of the lyrics. But it was strictly a two-guitar/bass/drums song. I rewrote the last verse at least three times over the years, and brought it back for the band Ellen Kay. My keyboardist (a brilliant musician) then added the arpeggios, 80s synth sound and Beethoven quote.

...And Even Now (Smile!)
http://download.yousendit.com/47BDA25C5B387983

3. This one, like the last one, began as a stylistic thing. While the previous one was written as I thought about "Sweet Jane," this one was written with "Who Needs You?" by Queen (Sheer Heart Attack album) in mind--a nylon-string acoustic, semi-slow, Latin sound. I wrote the chords and the first verse in a couple of minutes and LOVED it. But that was all...so while that much was done in about 2003, I didn't finish the song until summer 2004. Arrangements changed frequently through rehearsals and shows, and this isn't even really the final one, but anyone who knows "Who Needs You?" will note that it turned out much faster, heaver (thanks to the keyboards and drums) and not at all in that vein!

My Old Girlfriend
http://download.yousendit.com/56CAC3AD6F646776

4. The last example was a pure exercise. Valentine's Day, 2005, I sat down with the acoustic guitar after work and said I was going to write a song about Valentine's Day. Breakups being the easiest thing on earth to write about (in my opinion), I wrote a song about a fictitious one. I tried to be as literal and detailed as I could, taking the listener through it. So you hear lines like

"She picked me up some flowers, put them in a vase, and put them on the table. And I asked, 'what is this?' And I asked 'Who are these for?" And she laughed at me, but not for very long--she slammed the door."

The arrangement is actually the live one--there was a plan to have a great musician named Bob Parins (check him out, btw...bobparins.com or myspace.com/bobparins) play pedal steel where you hear the lead guitar, but I dissolved the band before we got to that point!

Valentine's Day
http://download.yousendit.com/D78D743570214D0A


So... Sometimes I write in fragments and put them together later--often as parts of different songs, years later. Sometimes I sit down and write a complete song. Sometimes I know ahead of time what I plan to write about. Sometimes it just pops into my head.

I'll close with a note on censorship. What I meant by self-censoring wasn't necessarily in terms of profanity, but more like taste. Would you say "I am not going to write [topic/style/sound] because it is too [common/unusual/popular/hipsterish/whatever]."? For example, for a few years I wouldn't use the word love in a song because it was so easy to fall into cliches. If I was going to write about it, I wanted to write about it without being obvious. Anyime I think of an obvious rhyme (mad/sad, or love / fits like a glove -- sadly used by Bob Dylan on this last album!) I won't use it. I try not to write lyrical cliches. I also try not to swear, because to me it comes off as a pathetic attempt to be noticed as "rebellious," but sounds more like a snotty 12-year-old. Ditto for overt sexual references.

So...that was a long post. Sorry. But I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed those that came before it. And while the band that recorded the songs with me is dead and gone, I'm curious to know your thoughts on those songs, too, if you listen to them.

I don't believe I've ever seen quite so much time and energy dedicated to counting to three.