If someone didn't sound as good as 30 years earlier, than work hard, so he sounds good enough again. Making music is the best job in the world, especially if you are as succesful as the Beach Boys, but that doesn't mean that you can rest on your legacy and don't have to work anymore imo.

A couple comments, one on each sentence I quoted above.

1) I think it is nature that overtakes hard work in the "sounds good" department. At a certain time--and the Beach Boys were reaching that point even in the mid-90s--a person is simply going to lose some vocal abillity. The voice changes, wears, people lose range, etc. It's just a fact, and all the hard work in the world wouldn't have prevented it. Sure, cigs, drugs, booze, partying hurt, and sure, hard work and practice help. But even Al and Mike have lost quite a bit (with Al keeping more than the others), and they were widely regarded as the clean-loving guys.

2) I think the Beach Boys have been proof that you can rest on your legacy. It might be disappointing to certain kinds of fans, but it is true. (NOTE: I only mean that in terms of remaining a creative force. Obviously, there is a certain amount of hard work that goes in to touring the country and playing hundreds of shows a year. It is just that those shows stopped being progressive a long time ago.)

Also who owns Dennis's share now and (if this is commonly known) what did they pay for it?
     

His estate owns it, doesn't it? (Thus not paying anything for it.)

DD said that Dennis gave him WAY too much credit for what he did. He said all he really did was get Dennis' ideas down in a proper manner. At least as far as songwriting went and production.

Do you happen to know where DD said that? I am curious to know more about who arranged what for everyone in the BBs, actually. I think it is safe to say none of them--Brian included, based on what I have heard various Wrecking Crew personnel say--was what you'd call accomplished in terms of writing out arrangements properly so that session players could play off them. But it also seems pretty safe to say Brian did at least have some ability to read and write music, and could get his ideas for specific arrangements across.

I have no doubt Dennis' songs were his own, not Dragon's, and that Dennis had specific ideas regarding production. But in terms of the actual arrangements--that is, the orchestration--it has been my understanding that Dragon or others did that for Dennis. My guesses on that would mean that where Dennis said things like "I want big walls of strings over this," Dragon would say "oh, ok...first violins hold this third over the top, second violins glissando from fifth to root below that, violas..." etc. I mean, really arrange it. And some of the string parts on Dennis' songs sound "correct," meaning they follow traditional rules. That also makes me think Dragon did them. But I'd be interested to know if that weren't the case.

(By the way, to be clear, I mean no disrespect to Dennis anyway. Plenty of great rock musicians didn't / don't arrange all their own music, including Brian on BWPS, where he had help from Mertens, or the Beatles, who had help from George Martin.)

This album contains three or four (or five) of my absolute favorite Beach Boys songs ever. When a Man..., Be Here in the Morning and Wake the World are al criminally underappreciated in the BBs catalogue, not to mention the world of pop.

OK, maybe not criminally.

Easy: my brain is messed up.

But a silly question (yet another): Would it be possible for Brian and Al to do this concert in Germany under the Beach Boys' name or has a meeting and voting with Mike and Carl's estate to happen before this?

I don't know the details of their agreements, but I do know the legal industry: even if Brian, Al and (more importantly) their legal teams believe they can do the show(s) under the name Beach Boys, there would be no way they'd risk it without first confirming that with the other voting members.

You're right that the politician reaches his or her goal, but my way of thinking is that it is a goal of escaping--hardly admirable!

I'd be more than happy to sit around and parse sentences all day, dissecting meanings. I say with pride that I am a geek about such things.

The issue is that it removes an actor in the mistake. It is a way to avoid admitting fault even while acknowledging there were mistakes. Rather than saying "I made a mistake by..." or "my chief of staff made a mistake by...," they're just saying "there were mistakes." It weakens the alleged apology or explanation.

I actually don't have a problem with the passive voice--it wouldn't exist if it were unnecessary. But I agree with those who believe in using it sparingly.

Link: http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmTmZUSEJTSUEwTVE9PQ

unmixed, unfinished arrangement. just a demo.

UPDATED VERSION: can by found at my myspace, www.myspace.com/thebeaumondes

Note the 2nd half of the a capella break...or what used to be that.

I am so sick of the phrase "mistakes were made" as used by politicians. Any middle school grammar teacher will explain that passive voice is weak, and ought to be avoided (ooh, i just used it), yet every president since Reagan has used it as a way to semi-apologize without apologizing.

OT, I know. But that's what the sandbox is for.

I didnt mean that I thought he couldnt play an instrument at all, I just didnt know that he was a good enough bass player/percussionist.

Gotcha.

On a VERY bizarre aside, I had a dream about this thread last night! I dreamed that someone said, "What about 'STE,' I heard he couldn't so much as play air guitar and yet he produced Queen's best albums!"

Of course, in my dream, I noticed the poster was wrong, as Queen's producer was Roy Thomas Baker, or RTB, if you must abbreviate--my dream-self determined the poster meant Stephen Thomas Erlewine, reviewer for Allmusic.com. And I have NO IDEA whether Roy Thomas Baker could play any instruments. But I couldn't decide whether to respond to that poster. Weird, weird dream...

I never knew that he played an instrument, I always just thought of him as a producer.

Considering what producers do, I dont' think I'd trust one who didn't...and preferably who didn't play several.

a disc of outtake performances that make up the bulk of what didn't make the aforementioned.

What groups are perfoming on the outtake disc?  Any Electric Flag?   

Yep: "Drinkin' Wine." The disc also includes Simon & Garfunkel, Laura Nyro, Byrds, Butterfield Blues Band, Mamas & Papas, Association...many others.

I feel as if it's kind of rebelling against the status quo of the local hipster culture by listening to the BB's.

The funny thing about hipsters...hang on to the same thing (in this case, Beach Boys), and every few years the hipsters get into it again. Beatles sound...BW sound...Stones sound...Smiths sound...folkie sound...Zep sound..Beatles sound...BW sound...Stones sound...Smiths sound...etc ad infinitum. My theory on this is that the hipsters just change. Everyone goes through a phase of each of the "classics," discovering them in time just like every teen/young adult "discovers" sex. So someone comes across the Beatles, spreads it among hipster-friends, and it's a scene. It wears out, they move on. But someone else soon discovers the Beatles!

This may be a borderline-swear word for some people, but in the unreleased "Life Is For The Living", Brian sings something to the effect of, "Don't sit around on your a## smoking grass; that stuff went out a long time ago."

That is actually Carl singing that part. Brian comes in to sing the "Sit-ups and push-ups do take energy" part.

Didn't mean to talk smack about him, just wanted to have a laugh at his expense... not unlike Mr. Love

Did you think I was having a laugh at his expense? I hope you don't think that was what I was doing. My words about Mr. Stamos were meant to be taken literally. If you meant you were having a laugh at his expense, then I'm sorry i misunderstood you.

Thank you for this--it is great to watch.

Because of the discussion on the songwriting merits of Dennis and Brian over the past page or two, I wanted to weigh in my opinion between them. I think that both of these two were great songwriters, but I give Brian more than a slight edge for a couple of reasons:

1) Brian, based on my understanding, did a lot more of his own arrangements, whereas Dennis was more likely to leave them to people like Daryl Dragon. Dennis' melodies were great, but it seems like Brian (in his "good" years, followed through, whereas even in Dennis' prolific years, I understand him to have "outsourced" that part of the work.

2) For my taste, Brian had more restraint, or taste. Dennis' songs went too far into over-the-top sentimentality for me, whereas even when Brian got sugary, it wasn't quite so far along. Of course I realize this is purely based on an individual's taste, so I don't expect others to think the same thing--it's just my opinion.

A quick thing on Stamos, too: I would never talk smack about him. Man, I envy him! Good-looking guy who got to be a Beach Boy for a while? (Oh, and marry Rebecca Romijn!) Sounds like a good life to me. Sure, the 90s forever was cheese, but who cares? Most everything in the 90s was cheese. (By the way, was that his responsibility, or was he just singing over a track arranged by others? I never did know that whole story of how Forever came about again, other than to push along a Full House episode.)

Sometimes it is funny to hear what "bad" words make it through onto radio, and what ones don't. The first thing I think of is Lou Reed's "Walk on the Wild Side," with the now-famous "even when she was giving head," line.

Is anyone else here familiar with/a fan of Gorky's Zygotic Mynci? They were a Welsh band that broke up a couple of years ago who put together what I consider to be a really, really interesting and sometimes beautiful blend of pastoral folk, chamber pop and rock music. Clever arrangements, great melodies...and singing in Welsh sometimes. What's not to love? (One of their primary members, Euros Childs, had a solo album last year that I really liked, too.)

I thought "How I Long to Feel that Summer in My Heart," an album they released in the early 00s, was among the best albums ever. I still do, actually. It is among my top 100 or so albums of all time. (111, I think, actually. I really did make a list last weekend. I am a geek.)

I don't think Brian was disliked by the band until the 80s Landy era.

I don't really know, other than what is in the books. I just meant to say I am sure I would have disliked him, or at least been almost unbearably frustrated with him.

On my taste in their music (meaning compositional skill, singing voice, instrumental ability, production skill) alone:

1. Brian
2. Carl
3. Al and Dennis
5. Bruce
6. Mike

(If I were adding Ricky and Blondie, they'd both fall just after Al and Dennis, before Bruce.)

If I were going to get into my impressions of their personalities and things, I'm sure the list would change some...oh wait, no it wouldn't! But I must say, I'm sure I would have despised Brian by the early-to-mid 70s if I were anyone else in the band.

EDIT: I just noticed there is only one Dennis vote. That is a little surprising, considering he has these assets in such a vote: 1) women would love him for certain obvious reasons; 2) some segment of men would love him for the same reasons; 3) most other men probably wish to a certain degree they WERE him; 4) his music has a tough quality and an emotional quality to attract each of the above segments!

Both bands had some great ballads--and not just the early ones. Especially McCartney and Harrison provided some gorgeous melodies and arrangements. But to me, Brian Wilson is the master of the pop ballad, and of course Dennis had his share in the 70s, as well. So I give the Beach Boys the edge.

I've actually asked Darian if they'd ever done anything from LOVE YOU (I believe he said they had done one song)

They did "The Night Was So Young."

I'd personally love to hear "Honkin'..." and "I'll Bet He's Nice." And "Mona," for that matter.

MIU and L.A.

Are there any more diverse back to back albums than those two? Maybe Holland and 15 Big Ones?

Yeah, in addition to Holland and 15BO, I'd say Pet Sounds to Smiley Smile were a pretty diverse duo.