Those BB albums in question needed more. It's one thing to blame someone, it's another thing to single them out unfairly.

On the former, I agree wholeheartedly. On the latter, I also agree wholeheartedly (and don't think I really did). So let's fight about our agreement! 

Well, SJS, I get that you often want to defend Mike from unfair attacks, and I can support that (admittedly more because I like being a devil's advocate than that I like Mike's work). But if the topic is "lowest point," and Mike's songs are what people consider the lowest point, then it's a fair answer. I agree: those final couple Beach Boys albums are their worst. Mike wrote or co-wrote the bulk of the material. So Mike is responsible. Was Brian there, could he have done more, should Al or Carl have contributed, etc.? Maybe. But I can't blame them for an absence. Sometimes nothing is better than something, and those albums are such times. Why not continue with presumably successful oldies touring? Why make those records--did those songs really need to be released? Was someone clamoring for them? I don't know the sales figures, but I doubt it strongly. If you like them, cool. But if others don't (myself included), cool. It's a legitimate answer to call them the worst. And Mike was at the helm.

As a kid in the early to mid '80s, I listened to Michael Jackson's "Thriller," and wore a glittery glove around the house.

In 1983 or '84, Trent H----- and I put on blackface (I am not kidding; in a small, rural Minnesota town, we had no idea what the implications were) in tribute, practiced our dance moves and singing and "performed" Thriller on his front stoop, boombox providing the soundtrack. An older kid, Lou H----, rode by on his bike and said we were gay. I had no idea what gay meant. Then he said--and I quote--"what are you gonna be next, The Boy George?" "We had no idea how Boy George was in any way related to us doing Michael Jackson songs, and tried to ignore him as we went on with the show. (P.S., we had to pick who got to "be" Michael. I lost. I chose to be Tito, not quite understanding that a) Tito had nothing to do with Thriller, and b) who the f*** wants to be Tito? Not even Tito, probably!)

For those of you interested in what I was listening to in the 80s and why, well, I'd be glad to let you know. I'm bringing that conversation elsewhere.

I knew of some of it, but it took a while to take. If there weren't whammy bar dives, finger-tapping and lightning-fast arpeggio guitar solos, it wasn't cutting it for these then-tender ears. Well, except the hip-hop of the day, which I also loved. Typical stuff, mostly: Kool Moe Dee, Run DMC, Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, etc. (Thread successfully hijacked.) My tastes were pretty vanilla for my time and place. In the early 90s I began more aggressively mining the past--mostly the late 60s or 70s guitar heroes--and only got a lot more interestingly diverse in the mid-90s.

Well, besides hair metal, what else did you listen to back then?

Hip hop. I was aged 4-14 in the 80s, and so that was the bulk of my listening. Anything lighter or poppier was frowned upon! (Never mind how light and poppy most of that hair metal was; I didn't notice at the time--possibly dizzied by all the fancy designs on the Gibson Flying Vs and B.C. Rich Warlocks.)

Being the age I am, when I think of 80s album covers I'm thinking about men in makeup, lots of bare (or stockinged) female legs and cleavage shots, motorcycles, cars, hell-flames and the occasional, laughable "satanic" image. God, my 80s sucked. But they were amusing for a young teenager, I suppose -- a necessary evil.

I love the BWPS cover, btw. Looks like a cartoon. The music is a cartoon. It works.

Kokomo was a hit for one reason. Cocktail!

It has nothing to do with it being any better or worse than any other Beach Boys song of the eighties.

It has everything to do with marketing of a Tom Cruise movie.

Reason already suggested ... and refuted.

Then why didn't Wild Again by Starship also become a big hit?

Honestly, I don't think "Kokomo" sounds like classic BB recordings at all. No falsetto. No thick harmonies. No orchestral (or even Chuck Berry-style) backup. And Mike never sounded that creepy in any 60s hit.

Mike, don't f*** with the formula...

[GIOMH]

I like the album cover a good deal-whoops all over GIOMH, which was a horrible album cover from Peter Blake of all people!

I agree: that was the worst BW cover of all time, in my opinion.

Oh wait, the xmas album cover sucked, too. My eyes still hurt from that.

[GIOMH]

I like the album cover a good deal-whoops all over GIOMH, which was a horrible album cover from Peter Blake of all people!

I agree: that was the worst BW cover of all time, in my opinion.

For some reason, I imagined that the TLOS cover would be a lot darker. I get a very dark feel from the songs, even the happy upbeat ones.

Perhaps a pic of a bearded, 300+ pound BW with an unbuttoned shirt chain-smoking and playing piano--drinks lined up atop it--in a dark, seedy San Diego gay bar would have hit the spot. For me it would have, anyway.

I think that cover is pretty ugly. And the font I think is especially bad. But I already know I like the songs, so that's the most important thing. Hopefully the final recordings will not disappoint me. I'd love to love it.

I'm nowhere near an expert, and can't really speak to the personal lives or problems of any of the Band. As to their musicianship, I'd say they were all very good musicians of a sort. None were what I'd call virtuosos blowing people away with technique. But they were all crack musicians in practical, working-band terms. Several guys were more than competent on multiple instruments, letting them do creative arrangements to suit the tunes. And Levon Helm, in my opinion, was just a motherfucker. And that's a compliment. I love the Band's first two albums and their 60s work with Dylan. I also like the '73 or '74 tour with him, somewhat, but not so much their studio work in the 70s, largely because I just don't like the production or sound choices engineers and producers were going with at the time.

(Rare as it may be) I'm with you, SJS. I think that Brian's Landy-era compositions sound like what they, as I understand it, were: homework.

2) Very interesting; you're not insinuating that the Beach Boys would overdub a live recording in the studio?

Never! Nobody in the history of pop would dare do such a thing!

There's a persuasive theory as to who did it and why... the quality on the boots is so good because it was a DAT copy of the DAT original. 

Here are my two guesses: 1) attempt to recruit Brian into the tour by showing him the sort of material they were doing, or 2) material for use on a potential live album (in case actual concert recordings needed some help).

So, listening to "Wipe Out" (there's a reason)

It's about time we get the complete "Wipeout" sessions box set.

Well, I thought it was kind of funny. 

Death's of Dennis and Carl. Nothing could be lower. Period!

Exclamation point, it seems, instead of a period.

I think that one of the lowest points was Mike Love's R+R Hall of Fame speech. They lost a lot of their fans with that one....

That was a high point in my mind. I continue to get a lot of laughs over that.

Beach Boys ... bigger than ever that can't be denied

Oh, that can quite easily be denied. Bigger than ever?

Thanks. It kind of just developed: I intended to do a super-rough demo that was just (stereo) finger-picked acoustic guitar and vocal. Then I wanted another, strummed acoustic in parts (which I recorded on two mono tracks, and panned hard each way). Then it just kept going: my simplistic drums, the bass part (glad you liked that--it was really enjoyable, even though it is also quite simple) and so on.

I don't disagree with you. As I said, while I can in a way understand what might have helped lead to Brian's continued downfall, I can also absolutely understand the other band members trying to minimize his potential for damage to nightly shows. Also, ditto on the 1981 shows. Yeah, there are awful moments. But the '81 Long Beach "God Only Knows" shows him singing pretty well, a note or two notwithstanding. That's better than plenty of shows before and after.