Quick comment on the topic of peer pressure (and the very related topics of marketing and advertising), I believe that the evidence is conclusive that, as social animals, we are in general highly vulnerable to influence. (One good piece of evidence is the very existence of marketing: billions of dollars wouldn’t be wasted if companies and candidates didn’t believe that those campaigns worked.)

Generally people know this but believe they are exempt. “Others fall for this stuff, but I don’t.” But we all do, to some extent, whether it’s which product to buy, which candidates to support, which fashions to sport, or how to behave. Even general social norms are basically peer pressure. We’re all subject to it at some level, however pleasing it is to believe we’re strong, autonomous beings.

I was released late last night... I’m ok . Turns out it was a complex migraine and that can mimic the effects of a stroke (which would’ve been my third) . Considering I had a TIA a few weeks ago that was some scary business.

On a brighter note I’ve lost 55 pounds since August and am now only 13 pounds away from my target.

Great to hear, Billy. And congrats on that progress toward your goal, it’s really impressive.

I am also greatly concerned by this. It's not my place to be as I'm not Brian...but it really saddens me because as others have said, these sorts of things don't get better. Back pain only increases.

Back pain only increases, but that may well be true wherever he is. If he thinks dealing with pain on tour is preferable to dealing with pain at home, that’s his decision. Sit on the tour bus or sit in the recliner at home. Find moments to stretch or walk on tour, or at home. Take prescribed medication on tour, or at home. Maybe he figures as long as he’s living, he may as well live. I’ve heard life is for the living.

(I’ve also heard I ought not sit around on my ass smoking grass, as that stuff reportedly went out a long time ago. I dunno about that part.)

You really can't say anything on this board that doesn't 100% support whatever Brian Wilson is doing at every waking moment, can you?

I hope he's enjoying himself. I hope he is in strong spirits. I hope he can do this for the rest of his days and that there are many of them ahead of him. But none of us know. It's not my place or yours to assume what he's going through. All I've said is that I'm concerned for Brian's health and that back pain only gets worse. Do you know anyone that has had a successful back operation? I'm not criticizing the man. Yes, life is for the living. Live it up.

You’re talking to or about the wrong guy if you want to talk about “Brian is untouchable here” stuff. Yes, there are those here (and elsewhere), but me? I’m the resident asshole.

Re back surgeries, no, not really. People I’ve met who’ve had them pretty much universally regret them as expensive and grueling affairs that at best help a little for a little while. Which is precisely why I said what I said. Life is full of sh*t. You can choose how to respond to it. Maybe he decided that as long as his back will hurt either way, he’d rather play shows and make money.

I am also greatly concerned by this. It's not my place to be as I'm not Brian...but it really saddens me because as others have said, these sorts of things don't get better. Back pain only increases.

Back pain only increases, but that may well be true wherever he is. If he thinks dealing with pain on tour is preferable to dealing with pain at home, that’s his decision. Sit on the tour bus or sit in the recliner at home. Find moments to stretch or walk on tour, or at home. Take prescribed medication on tour, or at home. Maybe he figures as long as he’s living, he may as well live. I’ve heard life is for the living.

(I’ve also heard I ought not sit around on my ass smoking grass, as that stuff reportedly went out a long time ago. I dunno about that part.)

That’s a cool idea re donations in lieu of fines.

We have fines without exception as far as I recall. I end up paying them often, but I plead innocence: it’s the fault of she with whom I reside, I swear! But the fines are more symbolic than anything, so it’s not such a problem.

2tc: I stand by everything I said. If you didn't get my reply which, face it, is very well-written, I'm going to shut that case.

Guessing “tc” is me & I believe you named me pre-edit. Anyway, didn’t respond because I had nothing to say. There’s nothing to be gained in going around entrenched in disagreement.

I went for a walk on my typical route to the nearest lake, only to see one or more races (there were runners, there were bicyclists) blocking my path. I rerouted toward a nearby creek, only to see my reroute blocked by the bicyclists again. I rererouted. It was moderately annoying, in that the lakes and creeks are substantially more pleasant than residential and commercial streets.

I just want to say that I am amazed at how much the boys can sound alike. I remember when I discovered that there are 3 different lead vocals on I know There's an Answer. I can definitely tell, now that I know, but never would have guessed. I probably picked up on Mike at the beginning with Brian on the higher Parts, but Al in there so seamlessly is amazing. Be Here In the Morning is another as well as many others. To my ears, Al sounds more like Brian than even Carl. They switch leads on Take a Load Off Your Feet and California Saga so seamlessly. Compare the lead vocals of Help Me Rhonda and Wouldn't it Be Nice! Also, I know Brian sings Winter Symphony, yet at times I swear it's Al!

Absolutely agree. And while it seems understandable enough that the brothers might sound similar, as you said sometimes it's Al, or Bruce, or even Mike who is sounding like one another or like a Wilson. Then when you add that they not only sound similar, but are often doubling one another or trading lines, it becomes almost an unsolvable puzzle sometimes.

Too bad he didn't shower.

Here's what I posted at PSF after reading of his performance in the UK.

I guess our friends in the UK should have rolled out a glowing orb for the president. Perhaps then he'd have been sufficiently distracted so as to avoid speaking about things he doesn't understand (i.e., everything beyond the fun of looking at glowing orbs). Up next in Helsinki, he'll finally get to have a good time talking to the fella on the other end of our true "special relationship." I can see the glimmer of lust in the president's eyes as he first glimpses a shirtless Putin.

"Did you see what I said, Vlad?" he'll seek approval like the child he is, mentally. "I said May was ruining Brexit, was mean to the Muslim mayor, and said Johnson would make a good prime minister. I zinged 'em. Did you see it?"

The faux quote, of course, has been edited for coherence. His actual statement would presumably be something more like:

"Vlad, guys like us, uh, we strongly with, ahhhh, talking on, and a lot of people are noticing, I say to the guy, I say, um, the uh, lady isn't doing the, what's the thing, a lot of people are on my side with this one, very smart people and more and more every day, she's not, and here you've got the guy who's one of those, the banned ones, the names they have, it's not American and so a lot of people, you know, they are not so ... Boris, is this guy Russian? I said to Miller, I said, is this guy Russian or what? He'd be, I think, and many smart people are agreeing with me and they're saying, Donald, you are really on to something, that he could make a good, uh, a better, than that lady. Get 'er outta there! I was very strong in this. I can, you know, a lot of people, it's hugely the way I'm, um..." [at which point shirtless Putin patted him on the head and gave him a piece of well done steak with ketchup, which the president happily gobbled up].

A couple weeks ago, I began watching Game of Thrones. I'd only ever seen a few minutes of one episode before (not having HBO or caring to look into the show), but after so many people saying it was worth the effort, I did eventually, finally give it a shot. I'm well into season two at the moment. I must say, it is pretty good, even though I'm generally lukewarm on "knights-and-dragons" kinds of stories. But I wonder whether I'll still be interested after three, four, five, six, however many seasons.

I just got notification that Hulu has season two of Harlots online now, as well. I thought that was a very good show, and will get around to S2 sooner or later.

I'm afraid the most likely answer as to "what's really left" is the morbid one. The profile will be raised again when someone, and especially Brian, dies. That's when another trove will be released, the major outlets will celebrate the legacy, etc.

I  just want to hear this unreleased stuff! I don't care if others hear it and either love it or hate it...I just want to hear all of it, every last second, every drum, every guitar, every fart, doesn't matter.

Ditto. Minus maybe some of the farts.

And applying some deliberately simple-minded logic to ask a question:

If it were as inexpensive and as easy to open the vaults for fans to buy and access via an online download "shop" as is being suggested, wouldn't it have been done already?

Maybe the questions should be why hasn't it been done already even after it was proposed and planned roughly 15 years ago? What all is preventing it from actually happening?

Feel free to tell us.

I'll agree to disagree but you guys just didn't seem to get what I was saying.

No doubt there are things in those vaults for the hardcore fans.

But I ask this in all seriousness...Where is the market right now in terms of projected hard sales numbers and potential buyers for material dating from the period of albums which are at this point mostly unknown even though they've been reissued on CD a few times over? So Tough, Holland, Surf's Up...in the US these albums outside the kind of people that read these boards are not exactly sales powerhouses, and I don't say that as a commentary on the albums or the reasons why, but it's feeling like the hard truth at this point.

So a marketing pitch to release *demos* from an era where there is all but an ignorance of the albums that were released, as some seem to want, and demos that sound scratchy and low fi and full of wow and flutter at that...how is that a game changer for the band?

People want what's familiar.

I'm saying if you bank on the familiar to *prime the pump* for more to come, you stand a better chance of generating interest with that over releasing "The Bedroom Tapes" or whatever misnomer was applied to that non-existent collection.

That "Brother Rarities" material? Yes, some is stunningly terrific. Some is crap that only completists would want. Should it come out? I say a resounding yes. But I'd also say more of it needs to be trimmed off those original lists because it simply isn't that good.

But there are things in the vaults that ARE that good.

But you cannot expect fans who either don't own, don't like, or don't know "Carl And The Passions" to buy demos and outtakes from that or various alt mixes from 15 Big Ones if they don't even have a familiarity or a fondness for with the actual released material.

The best way to introduce this stuff is to start with the familiar music - almost to a fault.

Would people listen to the California Girls complete sessions? I think a lot would buy it to hear them once...and isn't that the idea? As long as they buy it.

Then see how many people would buy demos from 71-76 and beyond in comparison.

Live shows from that 70's era? Completely different situation all around. Different marketing too. A much easier sell.

And yes...the plans for an online "shop" of vault material was on the books around the early to mid 2000's, in fact if I recall they had a domain purchased for it. It still hasn't happened.

Speaking only for myself, I was in agreement with HeyJude not because of any real business plan, but based on what I want to hear most. (And I was just pointing out that it could be released for nothing, which is a bonus.) I wasn't saying that was the best plan for the band's success. Most of what you're talking about has to do with what you think would be the best for the band, for its reputation, for its popularity.

So, no, I "cannot expect fans who either don't own, don't like, or don't know "Carl And The Passions" to buy demos and outtakes from that or various alt mixes from 15 Big Ones if they don't even have a familiarity or a fondness for with the actual released material." But my response, anyway, has nothing to do with them. It was coming from a proper, luthercentric universe.

HeyJude, I agree with you completely. I'd personally rather--by far rather--have first-time issuing of still unreleased songs than sessions. (I'm fine with more sessions, too: they're interesting. But I don't listen to them for fun or repeatedly.)

Considering the virtual lack of cost associated with digital-only releases, it's absurd they haven't at least done that. The big box sets are great, but they don't have to go that route. The pure profit they could make off of online sales ... it's crazy they haven't taken advantage, even if they might only move a few thousand copies.

Take care of yourself, Billy.

On a totally different note (but relevant to the thread), I really dislike the hyperbole-clickbait style of YouTube video titles, as well as headlines in some publications. For example, I enjoy watching debates on YouTube. But so many of them have titles like "[Person A] CRUSHES libtard [Person B]," or "Conservative DESTROYED IN FIVE MINUTES!" or whatever. Right now in my recommended videos is "Atheist Dan Barker Mutilates The Christian."

It's as if the typical YouTube commenter--which is to say, a hyperbolic idiot--titles them all.

I don't know about being proud of my state, or thinking it's the best. I think it's good. I enjoy it a lot. But proud? Not exactly proud. And best, I don't get into ranking things (at least not seriously--just for silly purposes like "best songs" polls that don't count for anything). I've said many times, I've liked most everywhere I've been to some extent. The "grass isn't always greener," but there's usually plenty of green grass.

As for "do we believe that this poster thinks with concern for random people's welfare they never met?" I would absolutely hope so. If we can't have concern for other people, including people we've never met, we are simply animals, nothing more. It is exactly that kind of emotional imagination that raises us to the level of humanity. That doesn't mean we can't enjoy the good in our environments, but if we only do that, and if we don't show concern for the less fortunate, we don't deserve the good things in our lives anyway.

California has the highest percentage of homeless population in the country, and is in the lower quartile of states for worst poverty rate, for example. As places like San Francisco and Silicon Valley in general become heaven for some, most are completely priced out of existence. Sure, it is--or at least its coastal cities are--a great place to be rich. But ask the homeless guy or the farm laborer (in what would be a desert--and has the sun of one--if not for irrigation) how luxurious it is.

It's a gigantic land mass. There are wonders everywhere, grand and subtle. There are problems everywhere, grand and subtle. To idealize is to blunder.

I might check out Singer's work, as I find stories about extended families particularly fascinating.

I can't recommend him highly enough. The Manor reminds me of great Tolstoy works in some ways, but where a Tolstoy or Dostoevsky often seems to be talking about grand affairs, somehow Singer usually comes across as about humble, everyday life ... which somehow feels even more grand and epic for it.

I could not agree more. All arts, even if intended to be honest, are always through some lens that is either an intentional fiction (like 99% of all movies and TV) or a documentary, which still tends to be intended to show a perspective, or even if not, does so anyway.

Even nonfiction is fiction to some extent. If your concept of anywhere comes from fiction, you need to keep a very low degree of confidence in the accuracy of your concept.

I just picked up a used copy of Nietzsche's "Human, All Too Human." Haven't begun it yet, though, because:

I'm currently midway through Isaac Bashevis Singer's "The Manor," the first in a two-volume set along with "The Estate," which I picked up at the same time as the above. It's a big, sprawling family (or set of families) drama set in late 19th century Poland. As usual with Singer, I'm loving it. I know I mention his books pretty often, and unfortunately I'm almost done with his catalogue, so I won't be able to do it much more. But he really has been--along with Dostoevsky and Knut Hamsun--maybe my favorite author.

Simultaneously I'm working through the easy-to-read "A Brief History of Thought" by Luc Ferry on recommendation and the more challenging, but more interesting, A History of Christian Thought by Paul Tillich. (I might have mentioned the latter before, as I picked it up a couple months ago. But I've interrupted myself on it a couple times for other books in the interim.)

You definitely should not consider what you see in American films to be an accurate portrayal of American life. Regardless of all the comments about the behavior itself--which would be considered at least slightly rude in my experience, as well--you should not conflate films with real American life or you'll be misled.

For anyone to take a single example of a person not recognizing a single work of art as “a symptom of “the anti-intellectualism growing in this country” is ridiculous! Anyone at any time could easily not know any single reference to art, however famous! (Since the guy was from Ireland, I’d wonder what country the New Yorker commenter had in mind, too. Calling out an Irish person’s failure as evidence of American anti-intellectualism?)

But as a fellow “flyover country” resident, I know what you mean about getting tired of the attitude. However I think the worst response is acknowledging the stupidity of the concept, much less being defensive about it, as unfortunately some people and publications try to be. It doesn’t take much thinking to recognize the contributions of people from everywhere. My state? Oh, not much, just F Scott Fitzgerald, Sinclair Lewis, Bob Dylan, the Replacements, Prince, Eugene McCarthy, Walter Mondale, Hubert Humphrey, Leif Enger, to name a few. And your Louisiana!? Too many to count. The pages of the New Yorker would be substantially less valuable without contributions from “flyover country.”

People ought not conflate being the center of the cultural BUSINESS world with being the generator of culture.

I just heard of and began watching The Man in the High Castle, which is on Amazon. It is based on a novel by Philip K Dick (which I have not read or heard of) in which the Axis won WWII and so the US was divided between Nazi Germany (East Coast and Midwest) and Japan (West Coast), with a neutral territory in the Rockies. The storyline begins in the early '60s.

After just over one episode, I'm really enjoying it. There are two seasons. I'm not sure whether it's ongoing or that's all there is. But based on just that first 75 minutes or so that I've seen, I highly recommend it.