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638016 Posts in 25499 Topics by 3626 Members - Latest Member: smiley wayback September 26, 2018, 07:44:52 AM
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1  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Sandbox thread for insignificant chit-chat on: Yesterday at 05:21:42 AM
Accents: Minnesota is relatively neutral, but especially in rural areas or among older people there is something, a kind of exaggeration and perversion of certain vowels. It’s hard to explain but I’ll try to spell out.

Cute instead of kyoot might be kyoo-ut.

A in many words is almost abrasive, more like the a in cat than the ah it is sometimes properly meant to be. Also sometimes made into two syllables like above with “cute.”

There is also something about the letter o that is hard to explain. I’d say it is more closed-mouth, like not fully pronounced, stilted, which makes it less of oh and more like a combined, fast oooh and uh. (Sorry I can’t explain that.)

I believe it comes from lingering Scandinavian and German accents that evolved.

The movie Fargo is meant to portray it but as NOla BB Fan said of Louisiana accents, Minnesotans don’t think it sounds accurate. (It is a good caricature of it though.)
2  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Sandbox thread for insignificant chit-chat on: September 24, 2018, 08:06:55 PM
Is it light in summer in MN? F.ex. in some locations in Russia, including St. Petersburg, there's white nights.
In Welcome thread, thorgil, NOLA BB Fan et al said that when driving car, various small animals can jump to road & NBBF said she tries not to step them with car tyres. Is there such animals to be seen in the driveway in MN? Do you too save them lives when they run/ jump?
We’re not far enough north for the near-full light in summer or dark in winter, though we do have pretty wide swings. I’d guess in summer our longest days are from maybe 5 am to 930 pm, while in winter they are as short as about 730 or 8 am to 4 or 430 pm.

Animals in the roads: it depends where you are. In the city you’re usually not going to see much besides squirrels, rabbits, cats, and dogs—though we occasionally see raccoons around, or even larger, obviously confused wildlife. Once you’re into the country, especially in the north woods but also fields, you can see deer, bears, wild turkeys, moose. Or ducks etc. I try to avoid hitting them but don’t go out of my way to help them either: I generally leave wildlife alone.
3  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Sandbox thread for insignificant chit-chat on: September 24, 2018, 06:59:52 AM
Re winter: I have very mixed feelings, but overall I don’t mind it. I’m usually ready for cooler temperatures by the time autumn comes around. Once “cooler” becomes “cold,” it’s also not so bad. I love staying indoors and reading, drinking hot coffee or tea (or a hot alcoholic drink), and just generally feeling cozy. This is especially fun with the dogs. And usually I find cold air invigorating.
 
But on the negative side, while I don’t mind shoveling if it’s just a couple of inches, once it gets up to (or above) 6 inches at a time, that gets pretty tedious, especially in the driveway. I have been thinking of buying a snowblower this year, actually. Also as winter wears on and snow piles up, driving becomes more unsafe and unpleasant: piles of snow move out from the boulevards into the streets, making them narrower. It’s also tedious to get bundled up to go anywhere, not to mention messy when you’re covered in snow or (on warmer days) slush. It is also a shame to be unable to sit outside in my yard, which I enjoy doing very much. The dark also gets to be hard to deal with: in winter I rarely see the sun during the week, as it is dark when I leave in the morning for work and dark before I leave work.
 
I try to focus on the parts I like and just deal with the parts I don’t. Usually that works OK until February or March, when winter begins to feel like a personal insult. But really I think that living where I live, if I REALLY hated winter, I would have to move. It’s insane for people to choose to live here and then complain about winter, since obviously it comes with the territory.
4  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Sandbox thread for insignificant chit-chat on: September 23, 2018, 05:19:12 PM
I’m not going through your post point for point, but I think actually (and maybe surprisingly?) I agree more than not. I also think your language comes across as very blunt and harsh in English, which could easily be that it’s a second language. Or maybe that’s just how you talk.
5  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: The What Are You Reading? Thread on: September 22, 2018, 08:41:07 PM
Tolstoy’s Hadji Murat.
6  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Sandbox thread for insignificant chit-chat on: September 22, 2018, 11:26:40 AM
Minneapolis and St Paul are known as the Twin Cities because where usually a metropolitan area has one large core city surrounded by suburbs, they grew to be two large, (nearly) coequal cities (surrounded by suburbs).

Originally the term actually referred to two settlements in the early 1800s on each side of the Mississippi River. But both of those actually ended up part of Minneapolis. However St Paul continued to grow and was made capitol city of Minnesota, while Minneapolis grew even more and was the commercial and cultural center, mostly on the other side of the Mississippi River from St Paul. So each became a large, important city in its own right, and basically they grew into one another. But where Budapest was two cities that became one, these remained independent of each other even though they are adjacent. Thus, the “twin cities.”

(They are definitely NOT twins though. They’re quite different.)
7  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Sandbox thread for insignificant chit-chat on: September 21, 2018, 08:27:10 AM
I'd like to add some information about the history of anti-black racism and the civil rights movement in the northern part of the country, because I think it is not really told as part of the "story," even inside the US. I'm personally too young to have experienced this, but my dad grew up in Minneapolis through that era, born in the mid-40s, and I've read the information that has come out since. I think RRA1 or others might find this interesting to help complete the picture.

Usually the story is told more or less as South = Bad, North = Good. And obviously the South had a more explicit kind of anti-black racism in slavery and then formalized segregation. But in the North, there was a different kind of discrimination. For one, there was a far smaller black population, so with a more homogeneous (white) population, it was easier to say the right things and "preach." In the 1900s, as there was a mass exodus of black people out of the South into the industrialized Midwest and North where they could find jobs, there were problems.

First, cities often used "redlining" in real estate to segregate races. It wasn't really publicized, but it was actually formal. Certain cities and neighborhoods were zoned to exclude different races: blacks were among those to whom houses simply were not sold. This automatically kept races in their own enclaves, and predictably, poverty bred poverty while resources were used on the white areas (which were already the better areas, with the black-dominated areas often in or near industrial zones). The official city documents are quite clear on the racist intent.

Second, the middle of the century was when cities experienced "white flight," where middle class white people left the core cities and moved to the suburbs. This brought their tax revenues with them, leaving core cities crumbling and increasing in crime while suburbs got the boost of those tax dollars.

When my dad went to a public high school in the city, there was something like two black people in his class of almost a thousand. That same school now is just under 80% minority (including 35% Hispanic, 33% black, 6% Native American). Even now, the remnants of those situations I described above remain. Certain neighborhoods have been mostly impoverished for half a century or more, and those are the neighborhoods that were "redlined" for minorities.

These sorts of issues are part of why during the Civil Rights era of the 60s, there were race riots in places like Detroit, Chicago, the cities of Ohio and Pennsylvania, etc. The supposedly enlightened North.

My point being, it was easier then for the Northern white people to fault the South, because they mostly did so from a distance: it is easy to fault people far away for their handling of situations that are outside your own experience. When confronted with people of other races, they basically ghettoized them and then fled altogether. So they weren't exactly the good guys they are sometimes painted to be.
8  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: NBA 2017 Topic on: September 19, 2018, 01:38:13 PM

Who would you hire to replace him?

KAT’s dad.

Kidding.

Kind of.
9  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: NBA 2017 Topic on: September 19, 2018, 01:27:25 PM
Been really soured on things since the end of the season, when it became obvious Thibs was still Thibs and there was a fractured locker room. A summer of rumors and mediocre draft made it worse. My hope was low by the reports of an upcoming meeting, and once it was reported they’d gone to Butler in LA to talk, I was done.

This morning I sketched out half a dozen theoretical trades. Then around noon I heard the news and felt almost relief.

But this should cost Thibs his job. He’s the one who convinced Taylor to give up A LOT for Butler, presumably because he could retain him. This huge risk was a failure and not only left Butler wanting out but KAT unhappy. Plus we’ve got a roster full of old man Bulls and virtually no young talent or financial flexibility.

Thibs reportedly wants to try to play through it, which will be REALLY cute if Butler walks and we get zilch. At least Flip got something for Love in a similar situation.

f*** Thibs. I was so wrong to be excited about him.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Paul McCartney 2018 interview - On Brian and the Beach Boys on: September 17, 2018, 01:01:48 PM
Maron is pretty educated on the beach boys around the smile era , expected him to dig deeper

Really? Where do you get that? All I’ve ever heard him say when musicians mention BW is that he’s tried and understands it’s supposed to be great, but that he’s never been able to get into him, “too sad.” (Then he usually talks about Peter Green for about 500 years at a time.)
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Recent thoughts on Jack Rieley by the Beach Boys? on: September 14, 2018, 04:08:34 PM
Rieley, to all intents and purposes, quit as manager when he moved to the Netherlands. Trying to run the band long distance from Amsterdam was always an untenable proposition.

Carl functionally quit as the band's producer. After 'Holland', he -- apparently willingly -- left the producing duties in the hands of Brian, Al, or Bruce. In the 2 years between 'Surf's Up' and 'Holland' Carl wrote one song, and there would be another 6 years after that before another Carl song appeared on record. Carl, post-Holland, could have maintained creative leadership of the band (at least in Brian's absence), but for some reason he shied away from the responsibility.

Dennis was Dennis. A talented though erratic screw-up.

None of these situations were because of Mike's ego, or because Mike was making a power play.

It's entirely possible that all of those situations were at least in part because of Mike's ego and/or power play. One's desire to manage a band could be influenced by one or more members of that band being difficult to work with. One's desire to produce and submit songs to a band could be influenced by one or more members of his band being difficult to work with. One's essence as a talented though erratic screw-up could be (negatively) influenced by one or more members of his band being difficult to work with.

A more functional relationship might have led Rieley to a different decision; Carl to a different level of confidence or willingness to participate and even lead; and Dennis to hold his sh*t together and more fully participate in the band as a dependable member.

As long as we're speculating, let's at least speculate from all reasonably believable perspectives.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Recent thoughts on Jack Rieley by the Beach Boys? on: September 14, 2018, 01:12:24 PM
Not only does that seem possible, but very plausible.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Recent thoughts on Jack Rieley by the Beach Boys? on: September 14, 2018, 11:12:51 AM
Oh great, you quoted me to immortalize my typo. Thanks a lot.  Grin
14  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Sandbox thread for insignificant chit-chat on: September 14, 2018, 09:33:43 AM
A lot of common, throwaway responses and words when used don't actually mean what their words themselves indicate they mean. I can see why as a non-native English speaker those phrases or words would be difficult to understand.

Some other examples, when someone asks someone else, "how are you?" these are some common responses in my region of the country.

"Could be worse." On the surface, this only means it is possible that you could be worse--you are not as bad off as is possible. But really, it usually is used to mean "fine, good."

"Not too bad." The words themselves seem to mean "I am doing badly, but not TOO badly." In other words, you are doing badly but it is tolerable, it could be worse. But generally people say it to mean "fine, good."

"I've been better." The opposite of the first example, all this technically means is you are less than 100% ... but how much less? You might be at 99.9% happiness or satisfaction and that would be an honest answer. But when people say it, usually they actually mean "I am doing badly."
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Recent thoughts on Jack Rieley by the Beach Boys? on: September 14, 2018, 09:27:26 AM

Some key points in Jack's comments are how he wanted to get Carl writing more, and in general get more material flowing from Carl and Dennis. It basically reads between the lines that Brian was obviously not 100% into it and his contributions would be what they were, I don't think there was an expectation that Brian would be writing like it was 1965 again, or anything close. But that element of getting Carl and Dennis contributing more was the element which Jack wanted to push even more, getting original material flowing from the Wilson brothers. He saw there was something there with Carl that wasn't being tapped into, obviously people heard what Dennis could do but maybe the thought was let's get more from him, and if Brian got the inspiration or wanted to lay down some ideas to start something, let's tap into that.


I hate to agree with gf2002 again--I've got a reputation to uphold (kidding!)--but this is spot on. I don't think you could fault Rieley for not upping Brian's participation because everyone, before and after him wanted to up Brian's participation. But Brian was going to offer what he could or would, and that's all.

As for the volume of Carl's and Dennis's input, it's not just the number of songs but maybe their prominence. Carl suddenly wasn't just one of four named co-writers, but the sole Beach Boy (with Rieley on lyrics) for prominent, different kinds of music, songs that I'd imagine were seen as centerpieces of sorts at the time, even if not singles. Dennis, well, yes, he wasn't represented on Surf's Up, but that's not on Rieley, it's on Dennis.

The "siding with Wilsons" strategy wasn't just about song counts, but about image, vibe, general direction. At least that's how I read it (and hear it).

It's a shame that Al was seen as so firmly in the Love camp in those days, because I think musically he fit right in with what the Wilsons were doing at times. His folk music especially fit in, and his quirky sense of humor I think also worked with Brian, which is why things like Feet and Loop de Loop might not have floated Rieley's boat, but Brian seems to have dug them. (Obviously musically he was also just essential, vocally speaking, I mean.) I understand that if he was sober, being around the Wilsons in the early 70s wouldn't have been an appealing situation. But if only he would have gotten through that (or maybe if they'd have held their sh*t together a bit more, which would have been a healthy thing regardless), the real core of the band could theoretically have withstood any kind of Love or Johnston (before he left) pressures.
16  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Sandbox thread for insignificant chit-chat on: September 13, 2018, 05:29:57 PM
I'd say context matters, and social cues, nonverbal signals, regional traditions matter.

But even "I'm pretty sure," I look at that as less than sure. Sure is certain, 100%. Pretty sure is like the below.

"I'm sure of it." (100%)
"Really you're 100% certain?" (Suggests person is <100%, or at least wants confirmation of 100%)
"Well, I'm pretty sure of it." (Hedges the bet, indicates that while still more likely than not, less than 100% certain)

But it's easy to imagine someone answering "you're sure?" with a wink and a somewhat ironic "I'm pretty sure." This is the person technically allowing for doubt, but indicating that he totally believes it despite his own words. It is similar to someone who is a great basketball player might respond to "are you good?" with "I'm pretty good" or "I'm ok." Context could literally take meaning from all the way to one side to its opposite.
17  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Sandbox thread for insignificant chit-chat on: September 13, 2018, 04:22:47 PM
"Probably" means it is more likely than not. "Maybe" doesn't weigh in on the odds, it just indicates it could go either way.

Maybe it will rain today. (It might rain, it might not, but the speaker isn't indicating likelihood.)
Probably it will rain today. (It is more likely than not that it will rain today.)

"Pretty" in that context--"it's pretty good"--actually means somewhat, slightly. It's pretty good would indicate that it's not bad, it leans toward good, but it's not REALLY good. It's not great.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Recent thoughts on Jack Rieley by the Beach Boys? on: September 13, 2018, 11:27:11 AM
Mike's real talent and the tragedy of his egomania are not mutually exclusive.

Yes.
19  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: So what did we all do today? on: September 12, 2018, 04:35:18 PM
That's fine--good, even. Just trying to explain as best I can the way things are here to answer you.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Recent thoughts on Jack Rieley by the Beach Boys? on: September 12, 2018, 01:24:50 PM
I have to say, the idea of an audience reacting tepidly or worse to new material and instead clamoring for hits is about as much of a non-story as there is with respect to successful (or previously successful) bands. GF2002 is entirely correct. I can completely understand a band being frustrated by it and trying to shove new material down the audience’s throats whether they like it or not (as I understand both Bowie and Prince did at times during their careers), and I can understand bands going the other way and giving the audience what they want.
 
That’s not an easy row to hoe. Go too far one way and you’re a self-indulgent asshole who disrespects the fans who financially supported your career. Go too far the other way and you lose all respect and are seen as no longer creative, coasting on your past.
 
Frankly, I think that in the Rieley era, the Beach Boys did a pretty tremendous job of threading that needle. They were performing a good amount of new material—and not restricting it to the kind of “singles from the new album” presentation you got at, say, C50, but truly representing a good variety of their music including multiple songs from multiple recent albums. I can see feeling a little bitter about wanting to show off your new material but having it pushed aside for “Fun, Fun, Fun” or “I Get Around,” but it’s a first-world problem. And complaining too much about it is a little like saying your ass is sore from sitting on your yacht all day…
21  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: So what did we all do today? on: September 12, 2018, 07:38:37 AM
Different systems, meaning different storm systems. It is necessary to name them somehow to tell simultaneous storm systems apart.

As for why the specific names chosen or how the naming conventions work, I think you’re wrong that you have to be born here to understand: I don’t think many people here understand the naming conventions either. I would bet that almost everyone simply accepts that there is one and uses the names that are assigned. The “how” and “why,” I would guess, rarely crosses anyone’s mind.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Discuss & Rate Brian Wilson Songs Day by Day on: September 01, 2018, 12:44:54 PM
I give Melt Away a five, which isn't quite fair. It's not a five out of five, which is perfect (or at least rounds up to perfect). I find flaws in both released versions but still hear some platonic ideal of the song somewhere in my head. It's fantastic, one of his very best songs of the past 40 years.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Had To Phone Ya on: September 01, 2018, 10:47:53 AM
I think it's probably one of the 10-15 best songs the band ever did after the Surf's Up album. The track is amazing. Billy is right: better vocals would have made a huge difference (not that it's the only '70s track where a person could say that).
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2018 Tour Thread on: August 30, 2018, 07:24:53 AM

I don't recall vast swaths of (deserved) bad reviews for "Unleash" last year.
...
Back to "Unleash"; it deserved *more* poor reviews. It probably benefitted from simply a lack of much attention from the rock press. I'd say any of "Looking Back With Love", "Summer in Paradise", and certainly the 2004 circulating collection of Mike's music, are all much better than "Unleash."

I think it was mostly ignored, as you say in that latter part of what I quoted. It’s not as if much/any relevant music press liked the piece of sh*t. It was (rightly) ignored as just another irrelevant release.
25  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: The What Are You Reading? Thread on: August 30, 2018, 06:43:33 AM
Re-reading The Book Thief and Animal Farm.

Having just finished the Erdrich novel I referenced recently, I’m now reading Animal Farm. Somehow I never got around to it before, but I’d picked it up within the past year or so from a free library.
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