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654195 Posts in 26147 Topics by 3721 Members - Latest Member: digitalhikes January 28, 2020, 12:01:45 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: March 05, 2019, 08:53:59 AM
Let's everybody just insult him, it's amazing that despite this guy trolling & this thread being useless, you still treat him with politeness. Just listen to me, I'm talking real business here. You'll be better. Jay? mtaber? Malcolm? Folks? Is it the deal?

Bring it on guys. I've spent my life in show business. I know we did good work on this book. If you've actually read it, bring it. If you're just into sniping, bring it, but note that you're blowing smoke, and don't pretend to comment on something you haven't read with any expectation of respect from me.

Thanks for the correction on the Beatles quote. That is a dumb oversight. I'll try and get it corrected. Hey, if one steps into the public forum, one takes his chances.

No one is giving me the instructions so I can post the Palisadian Post review here. Haven't figured out how to post a PDF file. Happy to give you all a pro's take on the book. It's a good one. Also, I could post a PDF review from MUSIC COLLECTOR, the "Rolling Stone" of Great Britain.

Are we having fun yet?

By the way, I'm in earnest about a limited series about the Band. 6-8 hours would give this amazing story time to breathe.

What's the take on Bohemian Rhapsody? I liked it.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: March 02, 2019, 10:40:34 AM
I think it's pretty funny how Reynaldo can boast about years of experience in the entertainment field, yet get literally every single thing wrong about the subject he's writing about. He can't even quote the correct lyrics to "Let It Be", a song by arguably the most famous and well known musical group in the world.

I luv hyperbole. Every single thing, huh? Must be some kind of record. Wait, I'm guessing we got a few names spelled right. I'm guessing that we revealed hitherto unexamined sibling rivalries, talent/management interplay and how they impacted the band's career. Wait, I can't keep track. Are you the guy that hasn't even read the book, or the guy who read it and labeled it a waste of money. I'm having trouble keeping track of which petty little sniper I'm hearing from. btw, which Beatle lyrics did I miss quote? Sound grievous, but I'm curious to hear and fess up, Mr Fact checker. Let's hear it.
Let's get into the details, shall we, since the big picture of an insightful take on this great band and a fascinating account of a guy who was actually there eludes you entirely.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 23, 2019, 03:08:55 PM
If someone wants to see the band that has been continuously on the road for 5 decades, it's because of Mike Love. There, I've proved you wrong.

But surely there is a difference between saying that "Because of Mike Love, people have been able to see the band for five decades" vs. saying "Because of Mike Love, people have wanted to see the band for five decades." Do you not see a distinction there?

Yes I do and it is a valid one. People can still see the Temptations, hear their music, enjoy the brand and music associated with them. Not so bad. For purists, that may even be considered an insult. I get your point.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 23, 2019, 03:05:51 PM
Since Ron's problem with me is primarily connected to my posting a one-star rating on Amazon after only reading one chapter of the book, I think that everyone on this site who has read the entire book should go on Amazon and post their own rating. 

Of course, Ron only thinks the ratings are legitimate if the reviewer gives the book 5 stars. 

Finally, something you and I can agree on. It deserves 5 stars, take my word for it. Of course I'm being facetious. However to call it a waste of money is just rude.
The time and effort Rocky, the editor, the publisher and Stan Love, who donated never before seen pics from his personal collection, put into this is nobody's waste of time or money.
We are never going to please the aficionados on this site when it comes to details or taste. You all are way above my pay grade in that arena. But I promise you the insights I brought to the bigger picture are based on years of show business experience in the record, film, management and publishing areas and they will be if interest if you keep an open mind. It was done with hard work and good intentions.

5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 21, 2019, 10:03:15 AM
The BB are still here and it is because of Mike Love, for better or for worse, but that's the fact.
CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE.

Did you even read what I wrote? It seems like you are clueless. If we are talking about there being a band out on the road named "The Beach Boys" because of Mike Love, sure, I'll buy that. But as far as the group being anywhere near pop culture...once again, here are the reasons they've mattered since we lost Carl...

You just don't get it man. Just because he kept the "name" out there doesn't mean he did any good. Seeing him and his band on the CW channel doing his solo tunes isn't doing The Beach Boys name any good. And honestly, why are The Beach Boys really in the public consciousness since Carl died, Al was kicked out and Brian basically quit working within the group framework in the late '90s? Here's why (in roughly chronological fashion)...

Brian touring. Obviously this was a big deal. Nobody thought Brian would really end up being a road warrior. And now look!

The Stamos movie. This kept them in the popular conscience, but not necessarily in a great way. Definitely reinforced the "Brian as a zombie" from the SMiLE sessions and onward theory. But regardless, it did get some people interested in the group again surely, which can't be a bad thing.

Pet Sounds. The legend has grown and grown. You had The Pet Sounds Sessions set in 1997 and things have kept going since then. And you have Brian touring it in the early 2000s.

Sounds of Summer. This was a big, unexpected hit in 2003. The Beatles had 1 and that did great and The Beach Boys followed it with their own compilation and did big business as well. If somebody was to say this didn't matter to the Boys trajectory post '98, well....they're wrong.

Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE. 2004 was huge as far as the name Brian Wilson (and therefore The Beach Boys) was concerned. Just as Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy and Dr. Dre's Compton made their mark in 2008 and 2015 respectively, it was a huge story that The Beach Boys resident songwriter was finally completing and performing his lost masterpiece. And then the album. Highest Beach Boys chart placement since, what, 15 Big Ones?

Mike Love and Bruce Johnston touring. Yes it matters. But not to the extent Ronnie Raygun puts it. It's good for some spots in the local newspaper and a ticket giveaway on your local sh*t-rock station, but beyond that nothing. Really nothing. There's really no word of mouth among the world at large about Mike and Bruce Beach Boys shows.

The SMiLE Sessions. Obviously this was huge as well. It's The Beach Boys version of SMiLE and then some. There wasn't any way this wasn't gonna be a hit.

The reunion and That's Why God Made The Radio. This is where it all coalesced and I'd say The Beach Boys as an entity were at their highest recognition since...what? 1976? 1989? Regardless, this is where The Beach Boys name should be. And what happens you ask? The guy who is "keeping the band together" and "keeping it going" decided to rip the band apart, freezing out the songwriter and another founding member, along with their guitarist. So yeah, thanks Mikey boy!

If you disagree with this, fine. But if you're gonna go and do that, prove me wrong. Don't just say "hey man, Mike is why the Beach Boys still matter and fuckk you if you disagree."

You don't have to get insulting. I did not say or imply that Mike is the reason the BB still matter and I certainly did not say "f*#k you if you disagree. If someone wants to see the band that has been continuously on the road for 5 decades, it's because of Mike Love. There, I've proved you wrong.
I don't recall insulting anyone on this site except for the guys that took cheap shots at the book in a public forum. That was just rude and insulting and needless harm was caused. Calling my work a "waste of money" was hurtful. Perhaps you've had enough of me on this site.
Fair enough. I grow weary of some of you as well. But I repeat I never said "f*#k you" if you disagree.
My apologies to the rest of the Smile members for my part in engendering that kind of response.
I'm not Rocky by the way as I've said elsewhere. That's simply not true.
All The Best, Smilers. "I'm still here."

And again, I'd be pleased to post the Palisadian Review. Some of you may enjoy seeing it and without paying $30.00 for a subscription, that will not be possible.
If someone can instruct me as to how to post a PDF file on here, I'll put it up. Thanks.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 21, 2019, 09:47:42 AM
Funny how Ron's writing style is morphing into Rocky's...anyone else notice that ??  police
I've thought it was him all along.

You guys are fun. I ain't Rocky. Simple as that. Those of you who think you figured it out sooner give me a giggle.
By the way I'd like to post the Palisadian Post review. Can someone instruct me as to how? I'd appreciate it.


7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 19, 2019, 09:05:41 AM
I remember the last shot in one of my favorite movies, "Papillion" (sp) where Steve McQueen is floating away from Devil's island on a raft of coconuts, something like that, and he says jubilantly, defiantly, and almost triumphantly, "I'm still here."

There's been a lot strange things in this thread but for me the top two are,

1. That a published author is uncertain how to spell the name of one of his favourite movies
2. That he doesn't check the correct spelling, which would take about 10 seconds on Google, before posting it

Thanks for correcting what is indeed a dumb mistake. Sheesh. Can't get a break around here. Ha. Luckily I got close enough on the mistaken movie title to get my point across. The BB are still here and it is because of Mike Love, for better or for worse, but that's the fact.
CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE.

As for being a published author unable to spell? Thanks, got a giggle out of that. If those are the "Top Two" messes I've made in the thread, I've come up in the Smile world, eh? I've can say with relief I've been called much much worse, so thank you for the kind compliment. Wheee
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 19, 2019, 08:54:53 AM
Looks like Rocky’s book got a write-up in the “Palisadian Post”: https://www.palipost.com/surfs-up/. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to get past the paywall.

Thanks for referencing that. How'd you like it? I'm learning, often with shock and awe, that what we think is happening may not be what's happening at all.

I'll post it here for you guys. One cannot get past the paywall without subscribing for $30.00 to get a pdf. Now lets see if I can get it to post on Smile. I've had little luck before.

Can someone instruct me as to how to post that review for Smile. It's a pdf icon. Thanks
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 12, 2019, 09:05:41 AM
Looks like Rocky’s book got a write-up in the “Palisadian Post”: https://www.palipost.com/surfs-up/. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to get past the paywall.

Thanks for referencing that. How'd you like it? I'm learning, often with shock and awe, that what we think is happening may not be what's happening at all.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 12, 2019, 09:03:09 AM

CD, I apologize for not responding in a timely manner. I was busy with trying to convince a poster that I wasn't a bully. Imagine that! I've got to say how much I enjoy your insightful posts and consider you and GF my favorite posters and fans. You guys always nail it for me. In trying like hell to address your posts about Mike Love's contributions to the band, I don't think I'm qualified to supply a legitimate, unbiased answer that you're looking for from me. As a young kid listening to them in the early to mid60's, I didn't care about who was who and what they did. I only knew that I liked Brian's singing and was attracted to the tunes. I guess I was all of about 15 or 16 and what in the world did I know about anything except maybe about the music I liked and being on the high school wrestling team and taking my girlfriend to the drive in on weekends. Some world, huh? Of course as time went on, my fascination with Brian was on a growth spurt. These melodies were mind boggling and had difficulty in understanding how someone could create like he did. The lyrics were somewhat secondary and seemed like a necessity, but I often read the label credit and wondered if Brian had the lyrics in his head and maybe Mike helped fleshed them out a bit with Brian, who was always intimidated by Mike, gave in and gave Mike the credit. It's a case of not trusting the integrity of the lovester. The tunes you speak of were no doubt classic but always seemed like Brian's original thoughts that were really Brian's idea from the beginning and knowing the predatory nature of Mike, Brian caved and gave him credit with Love only adding a line here and a line there similar to Wouldn't It Be Nice. My take on Mike is that he was an insane opportunist who relied on the incredible naivety of Brian during those golden years. Add that to all that has gone down between then and now and I end up with a person in my favorite band of all time that I just can't feel anything but extreme disgust and dislike.

Thanks, OSD for the reply. I appreciate your honesty and self-reflective comments about being unbiased. That's big of you to admit. I don’t have 50+ years of fandom of this band (more like 20), and I’m glad you at least realize that it can be next to impossible for some people to divorce their feelings about a person’s behavior with being able to objectively give them praise for artistic contributions. All I can say is that I do understand and partially share some of your thoughts, although I think the truth falls somewhere more in the middle.

(Side note: if only the hardcore Mike defenders could let down their guard a bit and be as honest and self-reflective as OSD was, then maybe we'd have world peace)

Either way, it’s incredibly unfortunate that Mike grabbed for credit on songs like WIBN, which only further eroded at any benefit of the doubt that his detractors might have still been willing to give him.  I really wonder if he thinks it was worth it to grab for credit on that song when the result was having even more people doubt the honesty of his intentions on getting proper credit on songs in general (those that he truly deserved credit on). The sad thing is, he probably does think it’s worth it.  Mike, like a certain moron who's in the news all the time now, doesn't ever seem to self-reflect or apologize/regret anything whatsoever.

Mike was indeed screwed over by Murry (and Brian being complicit) and while he *should* have a lot of public empathy over that fact, he doesn’t for a variety of reasons (including the WIBN credit grab)… IMO part of the screwjob Mike endured could be Brian acting passive aggressively towards someone who was bullying him. I will to my last breath never understand how someone could deny Mike has acted like a bully to Brian. It seems pretty textbook to me. One doesn’t have to be Biff Tannen with fists to be an emotionally bullying, coercive individual.

Personally I think Mike has undeniable talent and has contributed some great stuff, but the amount of lame behavior that he’s exhibited over the years can really, really give people reasons to not want to give the guy his due. Denying Mike his due I believe is a toxic thing too, but I at the same time get that it’s human nature to *not* want to give somebody praise when they outright ask for it, the way he does; he seemingly never learned the lesson that this is not how things work, disgruntled as he may be about certain things.

In any event, getting back to the topic at hand, it’s absolutely laughable to try and reconcile Rocky’s posts and the tone of the book. I mean, there’s literally no amount of explaining about fear of lawsuits (understandable as that may be) that can give a project legitimacy when it started from a series of posts with a tone that is as different from the final product, as say, the tone/vibe of "Surf’s Up" is to "Summer of Love"... or "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" to "Rockin' The Man in the Boat"... from avant garde, boundary-pushing content to a tune literally about stroking the salami. Based on the portions Ron has posted of the book so far, it seems to be THAT level a difference in presentation and content compared to what Rocky teased on this board. As different as night and day, to quote the Patty Duke theme song.

Unfortunate for Ron to be caught up in this type of thing, but this should come as no surprise. You can’t tease a trailer of the 1976 film “Network”, and have the final product be “Police Academy 6” without people being dissatisfied. That was an extreme analogy, but I'm honestly trying to think of any book/film/music/tv project that turned out more differently than this one from its initial origins. I guess this book is the literal definition of Production/Development Hell.

I'm sure Ron tried his best, but it's an unenviable position to be in.



Thanks everyone for weighing in, at least those who did. I'm gonna stick to my guns here and acknowledge all the conflicting views as well. So much has been said about the current Beach Boys, how they got here, who was responsible in both good and bad ways, whether their shows measure up to their salad days, all of that, but once again, that's sort of my point. I cannot defend my position or opinion, but only offer the FACT that if someone wants to see and hear the band, they can. Can't say that about the Beatles. Right? That, in show business terms and history is a miraculous fact. How that happens and why that happens is down to one guy. I just have to tip my hat to him.
Don't know the guy, but I hope to. I'd like to spend some time practicing TM with him. We've both been at that for decades. There's something about that continuity, that perhaps savage tenacity, that made that happen. It's remarkable. One guy.
I remember the last shot in one of my favorite movies, "Papillion" (sp) where Steve McQueen is floating away from Devil's island on a raft of coconuts, something like that, and he says jubilantly, defiantly, and almost triumphantly, "I'm still here." For me, gotta luv it.
Even if you get beat up by someone like Muhammad Ali, as this site is, in its way, probably the greatest, even with the bruises exemplifying your shortcomings after the brawl, don't you think you strut your stuff a bit ? Ahh, I wax poetic as writers will.

As for me not being in an enviable position? I am in an enviable position and most certainly consider myself as such. For better, as may be proven elsewhere, or for worse, as is often the case on this site, I'm in the game with one of the greatest bands of all time. How I got there, perhaps due to foolishness or naivety, or whatever else doesn't matter anymore. The games a foot. The Book exists.
Thanks to all of you. I'll take my lumps, proudly, deservedly if you will, but "I'm still here." Glad for it.
Now go buy the book. Heh heh heh.

Thanks for posting the Palasadian Post article, btw, who ever that was. Can an 8 part mini series be far behind? There's an uproar in the making. wheee
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 06, 2019, 10:23:39 AM

Hey Renaldo! "I'm not fawning over Mike Love"Huh Huh He's the "glue" that kept the band together??? Obviously, you still believe in The Tooth Fairy. He fired Al Jardine twice (the best voice in the group to date) and after Carl passed away. How is that keeping the group together. He fired Brian Wilson!! And, on top of all that, he thinks he is the Beach Boys. Nice slap in the face at both the Wilson brothers and Al who all were infinitely more talented than he will ever be. Get a grip, man.  : Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I cant argue with your opinion. But your comment in a way makes exactly my point. The BBs still exist, and the one guy who's kept them there in the public consciousness is for low these many decades is, in fact, Mike Love. You and the knowledgeable and learned people on this site know all the back story of the group, but you exist in knowlegdable rarified air. The reason the band is still alive and still exists to the rank and file out there on Planet Earth is the one and only "Mike Love."
Credit where credit is due.
When I came aboard this project I was one of the multitude. I knew none of what is common history to those of you here. But I knew of the Beach Boys.
They were still alive in the world's view of the music scene, as a group, playing that miraculous and wonderful material. It wasn't just music on the radio, THEY WERE STILL OUT THERE. THE BEACH BOYS STILL EXISTED, STILL PLAYED, STILL LIVED AS A BAND in the public consciousness, ignorant public consciousness perhaps, but they were and even are, STILL THERE.
I was in the music and entertainment business most of my life. That is a rare and laudable accomplishment no matter how it happened. Ask yourself who was the one common denominator the the whole friggin time?
You may not like the answer but there is only one answer.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 05, 2019, 04:31:36 PM
Hey, don’t pee on the dude’s rug, man.

OMG - this is my favorite post. Thanks for the levity.
Once again I have been schooled a bit by the members of this site. Thanks all, positive or negative.
Here's my response which pertains what interested me about the book and why I stick to the fact that it is in fact, engaging and entertaining.
Also why I refer to Mike Love as the "glue" that kept that band together.

 I've been in the management business, show business, the film business and the entertainment world since my early 20s managing talent, producing pics overseeing a publishing company, making records, blah, blah. I'm hardly a big shot, but I know the territory. One of my buddies back when I was producing a 2ed feature film,  after I told him that my producer's fee was either already spent or spoken for, before we had ever shot a frame of footage, said, and I'll never forget it, "Yes, but you have a wealth of experience." Ha. That and 4 bucks will get you a cup of coffee.
There was wisdom in what he said and I've gained plenty more experience since.
The fact that the BB are still around, unlike the Beatles or Jimmy Hendricks, for instance, is a show business miracle in many ways. It's not just the music!
It took a masterful continuity of spirit to keep that Band current. They're still playing. There was no Berry Gordy or Motown machine buoying them up, changing band members, owning the group name with interchangeable parts.That is impressive. Take it from someone who knows and understands the territory.
I'm not fawning over Mike Love. I'm tipping my hat to the guy that was there, day in, day out for 50 years. Hey, Al Jardine. My hat's off to you as well.
Like I said, I have enormous respect for everyone in the book.

That's what the book is partly is about and that's why I say it is entertaining and engaging and a peek behind the veil. It's not just the music.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 02, 2019, 08:23:50 AM
I would be interested in reading the Record Collector review if you can post.

AGD has reviewed the book on the other site, and basically came to the conclusion that there are many, many factual errors. I guess that is a risk when writing about a band who's history has been thoroughly scrutinized!!

Yup, embarrassingly we apparantly did fall short on accuracy in some ways. I can only apologize. I was more interested in the overall view of things based on my hard earned knowledge in the music, film and entertainment business.
I'd be pleased to post the Record Collector review if I could figure out how to do that.
There is another review coming, only our second in a legitimate news or magazine forum that should be out next week and I'll be happy to post that as well, my internet skills and site acumen notwithstanding.

I'll figure it out. Thanks for your interest.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 02, 2019, 08:15:56 AM
Ron, you posted a chapter on this site - I read it, I thought it was highly inaccurate, and I said so on Amazon.  For the 3rd time, I'll explain to you that I did not claim to have read the entire book.  Anyone who can read would be able to figure that out.  I later posted on here that I am going to try to find a copy of the book at a nearby library, so I can read the whole book.  You then interpret that to mean that my goal is to find a way to write an even MORE negative review on Amazon.  You say I'm not a Beach Boy fan because I did a negative comment on Amazon.  The logic you use amazes me. 


Meanwhile, you repeatedly admit on this site that the accuracy of the book has been sacrificed so as not to antagonize a certain cousin of the Wilson brothers. 

So, the only thing a true Beach Boy fan can do is buy the book, read the book, accept it's inaccuracies, love the book, and post a 5-star review on Amazon.  Am I on the right path now?



I said it was a cheap, petty shot to post a review OF THE WHOLE BOOK on Amazon when you had only read the one chapter that our publisher agreed to post on the Smile site out of curtesy and respect for this site. You hurt my relationship with the publisher and you damaged the rating of the whole book when you had only read what we posted for your pleasure. Amazon does not distinguish your pettiness and inaccurate review of the whole book. It affected the whole rating for a considerable amount of time. It hurt us. Did that make you feel good?

As to accuracy, I have admitted that we did not come up to the standards of the aficionados on this Site.
As to the "cousin of the Wilson's," we didn't sacrifice anything or avoid antagonizing Mike Love. Whether you like it or not Mike Love is the most instrumental reason that the BB survived all these years. If you love the band then the fact that they are still around is because of HIM. You may not like him for whatever reason, but he is the glue that kept that show on the road, day in and day out, year after year,  period. Have some respect. He earned it. Because we did not choose to investigate certain areas was the publishers choice for the kind of book he would be willing to publish.
That's sho biz. Try getting a book published about rich, powerful and successful people and run into the exigencies of that world before you squawk.

As for your sarcastic "right path" comment. Read it or don't read it. I hope you don't quite honestly. I did not and would not have done all the righteous work I put in to this book for the likes of you. Your opinion doesn't matter to me at all any more. I find you vindictive and untrustworthy in any case.
As for the cheap shot artist from this site that claimed our work and therefore the publisher's, and Rocky's, and my work is a waste of money,  I'd like to have him present that view to us in person. The book is well written, interesting, insightful and enjoyable, everything a book should be. His petty shot at Rocky, which is all his vindictive review is about, is childish revenge for the way Rocky treated him on this site. YOU WOUILD HAVE KEPT THAT ON THE SITE IF YOU HAD AN OUNCE OF CLASS.

READ IT, THEN TAKE ANY HONEST ACCURATE SHOT YOU WANT. AT LEAST YOU WILL HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT!
Since I'm still steamed at the both of youse I'll say to you what my Mom used to say to me when I was behaving like a nasty little runt, "I hope someone treats you the way you are treated me so you'll know how it feels."

Whew, I feel better already.

As for the rest of the site, HNY everyone.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 30, 2019, 05:45:55 PM
Hello Ron, yes you can post those here, no problem.

Thanks, I gave this a try with the copy and paste method and failed. Do I need to implement the addition options function and then upload the files.
A computer wiz I aint.
Ron, I've decided that I'm going to try to read the entire book, if I can find it in a nearby library.

Uh huh. And you and the other player from this site can hurt us again. Post another 1 star vicious review on Amazon to get back at Rocky because Rocky was perhaps rude and insulting to you on this site? I worked hard on that book because the Beach Boys meant a lot to me and their music touched my soul growing up. The Book is about them and I did my best to honor them and their career and work, and in good faith, mind you. Then I came on this site to be generous with my time and a couple of you went out of your way to hurt the book. Whoever it was who bragged about never writing a review before but went out of his way to do so on Amazon because this book was so bad a waste of money was the byline. It's far from bad. In fact the world is judging it as pretty darn good. Call me anything on this site you want. I'm here. But to go on Amazon with that vicious and petty review stank. And pretend to be a BB fan. Doubt it and thanks for nothing. It's easy to be a critic from behind your computer screen. I'd like to meet up, discuss it in person. How bout that? Ha Ha - just joking. Channeling a little bit of the Roc there. Just a little bit.

 
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 28, 2019, 03:35:11 PM
If someone had the facts on their side, and did indeed go up against Mike Love with all his "well earned wealth and stardom" behind him, the court of public opinion would side with whoever that person might be, and if there were a backing for that person and the story, the facts would win out over litigious nonsense. As long as their story is factual and true, despite Mike's and his more ardent supporters' and water-carriers' attempts to rehab his image, that image is still what it is and has been for a long time. Actions have consequences.

With that said, Steve Love called it just over 3 years ago when he said this:

>>>>"Thank you for your kind thoughts and generous offer of help. Any form of self-publishing for Rocky will not work for the very reason that he needs a publisher with a strong legal arm who won’t be cowed by ML’s reputation for litigiousness. Mike is revealed to be not such a great guy in “WIPEOUT.”

I have read Rocky’s book and it is indeed fascinating. He is patiently biding his time until some book publisher wakes up and realizes that his entertaining memoir has the potential to be a hot property. Aloha."
Steve<<<<


It's a shame the publisher Steve had in mind hasn't been found.


What about 'Surfgate' could these issues be addressed in a work of fiction without fear of reprisal?

Surfgate,” five years in the making, is a fictionalized account of a copyright ownership dispute that occurred between two high profile rock stars that led to a music publishing lawsuit.

That publisher described as "hasn't been found" may be better described as one that "doesn't exist."
Believe me, I searched. There is a litigious history surrounding the BB that comes up the minute any legal department does a search and there is no way that the original manuscript could have found a home. It is much easier to stop a project in this world than it is to start one. The instant a product is for sale, the rules change and sadly "he who has the gold, makes the rules,"  something like that. I'm not sure where I heard that but it rings true to me.
We can enjoy a much more open forum on a site like this.
Could someone write a work of fiction, etc? Perhaps, but if a layman could identify the players depicted, the authors could be in an expensive situation legally. Yes  the truth could win out in the end but it would cost money, a lot of money, in the ensuing legal struggle.
By the way, "The Beach Boys' Endless Wave" got an all star review in the Jan 2019 edition of RECORD COLLECTOR, one of the oldest and most prestigious music magazines in Great Britain. Would I be allowed to post that on Smile?

Hi Again,
I have some photo's from the book and the Record Collector review I'd like to post to Smile. Am I allowed?
Ron
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 23, 2019, 09:53:00 AM
If someone had the facts on their side, and did indeed go up against Mike Love with all his "well earned wealth and stardom" behind him, the court of public opinion would side with whoever that person might be, and if there were a backing for that person and the story, the facts would win out over litigious nonsense. As long as their story is factual and true, despite Mike's and his more ardent supporters' and water-carriers' attempts to rehab his image, that image is still what it is and has been for a long time. Actions have consequences.

With that said, Steve Love called it just over 3 years ago when he said this:

>>>>"Thank you for your kind thoughts and generous offer of help. Any form of self-publishing for Rocky will not work for the very reason that he needs a publisher with a strong legal arm who won’t be cowed by ML’s reputation for litigiousness. Mike is revealed to be not such a great guy in “WIPEOUT.”

I have read Rocky’s book and it is indeed fascinating. He is patiently biding his time until some book publisher wakes up and realizes that his entertaining memoir has the potential to be a hot property. Aloha."
Steve<<<<


It's a shame the publisher Steve had in mind hasn't been found.


What about 'Surfgate' could these issues be addressed in a work of fiction without fear of reprisal?

Surfgate,” five years in the making, is a fictionalized account of a copyright ownership dispute that occurred between two high profile rock stars that led to a music publishing lawsuit.

That publisher described as "hasn't been found" may be better described as one that "doesn't exist."
Believe me, I searched. There is a litigious history surrounding the BB that comes up the minute any legal department does a search and there is no way that the original manuscript could have found a home. It is much easier to stop a project in this world than it is to start one. The instant a product is for sale, the rules change and sadly "he who has the gold, makes the rules,"  something like that. I'm not sure where I heard that but it rings true to me.
We can enjoy a much more open forum on a site like this.
Could someone write a work of fiction, etc? Perhaps, but if a layman could identify the players depicted, the authors could be in an expensive situation legally. Yes  the truth could win out in the end but it would cost money, a lot of money, in the ensuing legal struggle.
By the way, "The Beach Boys' Endless Wave" got an all star review in the Jan 2019 edition of RECORD COLLECTOR, one of the oldest and most prestigious music magazines in Great Britain. Would I be allowed to post that on Smile?
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 23, 2019, 09:32:42 AM
I just read the book...A few thoughts:
1) The book is to a fault positive about Mike Love. I couldnt figure out why then I just read the last few posts about them being scared of legal action and makes 100% sense. I dont think theres 1 negative word about him in the whole book.
2) The book is uniformly negative about dennis. He comes off almost as a cartoon villain. As far as I can recall, the only positive thing about him is at the end in the sort-of prologue where he mentions "oh yeah he had a solo ablum that was really good".
3) Carl also comes off very poorly.
4) Most of the stuff in the book is based on personal experiences/conversations there is no way to fact check so its hard to know how accurate a lot of them are. But what doesn't give me confidence about it's accuracy is there are several pictures that say something like "Brian in the 60s" and its obvious its Brian in the 80's. I was surprised how many photo captions are obviously just incorrect about dates.

That said, it was entertaining and a worthwhile read if you take it with a huge grain of salt.



Thanks for your comment about the book and thanks for taking a look. I'm a bit dismayed that Carl and Dennis came off as "villains." Dennis was in the grips of the horrible disease of addiction and we apparantly did not do enough to delineate the distinction between Man and disease. I regret that in both Dennis and Carl's cases. I came away with enormous respect for both of them but clearly we did not get that across in the book.
Thanks for your "ENTERTAINING AND WORTHWHILE READ" comment. That made my day. That was the overriding mantra for the book. That kind of attitude can be disappointing to such erudite fans as are represented here on Smile. I have come to understand that and often quite painfully. Still, we are in the book business and the object is to have a product that will not be trounced and stopped in the legal arena. I repeat for the umpteenth time the quote from my attorney friend, "A rich, vexatious  litigant can always cause trouble." Ha. Sad but true. If we ENTERTAINED and were WORTHWHILE, we did the major part of our task. 
Check it out those of you who haven't. I'm confident we hit some spots about the amazing story of the "rescue and revitalizing" of Brian and the fascinating interplay of both the 3 Love brothers and the 3 Wilson brothers and the sibling and management/talent interplay in a way that has never been touched on in any other BB work. Once again thanks for checking it out.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 15, 2019, 11:26:57 AM
Ron, if you were as brave regarding revealing what Rocky knows about Mike Love  as you are in attacking me, perhaps the one chapter would be a better read. 

You wanna tangle with Mike Love, my man, be my guest. That's "the" Mike Love your blustering about - all 50 years of well earned wealth and stardom you are talking about. Go ahead brave boy. Have a go.

Furthermore, I'm not JUST attacking you out of the wild blue yonder. I'm responding to your hurtful PUBLIC attack on a product you haven't read and the damage you did to my relationship with my publisher. We're not just playing around on a blog. We invested time, effort, money, and good intentions in this book, maybe we failed in some respects, but we paid a curtesy to the site to post a chapter privately here, for free. Then you went public with a vicious condemnation of our work which harmed us for no good reason.
 You haven't read it. You starred the entire book unfairly, maliciously not just one chapter. It stinks.
 I'm asking you to play fair. We were friendly, courteous, and giving of our time out of respect for this site. You went off site, in public, and instigated harm.
You don't deserve an apology.

That being said, if I went too far,  you have my apologies.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 15, 2019, 09:54:57 AM
In Ron's defense, I wonder if he had any idea of the tangled web of whitewashing, distorting, and dishonest historians that bubbles under the BB's fan universe.

I would love to know that too. This is why I'm trying to be more sympathetic to Ron here, because this Beach Boys world is a minefield of idiot politics, petty disagreements that have led to some incidents (and I'm not just talking about forum nonsense), and mis/disinformation. Writing a book about any aspect of this band is bound to be impacted by some of this stuff.

Quote
Sold. I'll buy your book and read it. But are ther any plans to make a Kindle edition? I live abroad and would prefer a version I could read on my Ebook, but if not I'll order the paperback.










This. I'm really intrigued by this book, warts and all, and I'd buy it on Kindle in a heartbeat. Living as I do in Australia though, I can't justify to myself the expense imposed by international shipping and our weak dollar.

Ron, with all this in mind, if you end up selling the e-book for Kindle, will there be some revisions made regarding even a few of the mistakes people have brought up in this thread?

Publisher's are loath to change things in a book. It's a difficult and expensive process. We have already changed a couple of things on the back cover but I know that's not what you are talking about. Those tweaks will show up down the line.

The answer is that if we get some sales, and we're just getting some publicity started, we, the author's will try and implement some corrections. Once again, it's the larger picture of the time period that reflects the age old rift between talent and management and family and sibling interaction that is the freshest thing about this tale. The details of dates etc do not mar the overview that I think is the most interesting thing about this book.
So yeah, kindle down the line.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 15, 2019, 09:46:19 AM
Yes, I went on Amazon and posted a comment on the book.  I did not claim to have read the entire book.  I stated that I read one chapter and I added that one chapter was more than enough.  I stated my opinion of that one chapter.  I felt that potential buyers of the book should know my opinion, based on the one chapter that you chose to post on this site.  There were three or four other reviews of your book already on the Amazon site, and those reviews were glowing.  Those reviewers have a right to their opinion, as do I. 
This is posted twice:

You don't get it. Your review and negative response and star rating affects the WHOLE BOOK'S rating even though you have not read it. You rated the entire book with your ignorant response. You didn't rate 1 chapter ONLY. It doesn't work that way. You damaged the whole book and you've never bought it, seen it or read it.
You have no business saying anything on there. Take it down or you will remain a punk in my eyes and taint the reputation of this site.
If I had known someone like you was on here I'd have never asked the publisher for permission to post a chapter on here. It was a curtesy. You hurt my reputation with the publisher. And I'm being polite here.

Please note "ignorant" is curable. Stupid is forever.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 15, 2019, 09:43:43 AM
I did just go on Amazon and edited my review to make it more clear that I have only read one chapter. 

You don't get it. Your review and negative response and star rating affects the WHOLE BOOK'S rating even though you have not read it. You rated the entire book with your ignorant response. You didn't rate 1 chapter ONLY. It doesn't work that way. You damaged the whole book and you've never bought it, seen it or read it.
You have no business saying anything on there. Take it down or you will remain a punk in my eyes and taint the reputation of this site.
If I had known someone like you was on here I'd have never asked the publisher for permission to post a chapter on here. It was a curtesy. You hurt my reputation with the publisher. And I'm being polite here.

Please note "ignorant" is curable. Stupid is forever.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 14, 2019, 01:59:41 PM
Excellent post, rab. Many of us pushing back at Ron were doing so precisely because the "tabloid-y" stuff that was apparently in Rocky's original draft was represented by Rocky (and, indirectly, by Steve Love) as providing additional details into the "darker side" of Mike's litigation history. Its absence is not only disappointing, but somewhat suspicious. Clarification from Mike's brothers would go a long way toward explaining the motivation for its apparent removal (which Ron tacitly/indirectly admits in his explanation of how he came to be involved in the book project).

Now it could be that some are frustrated by the type of stonewalling (no pun intended) that the country is currently experiencing with certain folk that Mike seems to be a bit too cozy with, and when they see something else that has the appearance of a whitewash they see red--that could explain the tone of those remarks. But it's also true that the issue raised about the "missing" material has been sidestepped in Ron's responses, in favor of pushing back at those who would probe into those sensitive areas as being unnecessarily mean-spirited.

Brother Ron, you need to take a look at the history of this board and the posts still fully documented and available here to see that what you think is unduly negative and malicious is probably registering at about the fortieth percentile of what this board has been capable of in its "prime."  3D



I enjoyed and encouraged Rocky upon occasion during his time here, in part because there was the hope that playing to his sense of theatre might cause him to exercise less caution and reveal more about the areas related to Mike that he'd been teasing us with. But I would have to agree with what I think is a sizable majority of posters here that it's inconceivable to me that Rocky wasn't fired and sent home immediately after clocking Carl Wilson. Let's put it this way: I'd buy Rocky a beer ahd have a chat, but I'd keep a seat (or two) between us at the bar...

I did a lot of work explain exactly why Rocky was not fired after belting Carl. It's in the book. It's the most insightful and revealing information in there in my opinion. It affected Steve Love's relationship with the band from that resounding crack on Carl's jaw to the end of Steve's career with the Band.

Rocky and Stan were dedicated to keeping drugs away from Brian. They were not guys to be trifled with. Steve Love was loyal to a fault to those guys and that dedication
READ THE BOOK. What happened after that incident and why is fascinating.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 14, 2019, 01:51:49 PM
Ron, I really respect that you've come on here consistently to plug/defend this book. And looking over this thread I think you've come out the bigger person on a multitude of occasions when responding to people who have hurled insults at you. I also think it's commendable that you admit:

Quote
To the others on the site, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful comments. I learned a lot from many of you - get some better fact checkers for one thing. Ha. I maintain that Rocky got to see this great band from the inside, behind the curtain, if you will,  during a really interesting time in the bands history. 

It takes a lot of work to write a book, and I can't imagine the time and dedication it takes. Especially 28 chapters of dedication. With that said, I hope I can help you understand why there is so much angst towards you in this thread. Here is a quote from the excerpt you posted earlier in the thread:

Quote
In 1967, Mike’s discomfort with Brian’s new musical direction caused things to get more than a little heated. As portrayed in the film Love and Mercy, they had an ugly scene, and it brought things to a head. Brian had reached his breaking point; his mental and physical reserves were stretched so thin, he was done.

At that point, Brian effectively quit the band and withdrew into a cocoon of drugs and disenchantment. He vowed he would never write songs again for the Beach Boys, and he opted to slip into oblivion. He just couldn’t take it anymore. He checked out. Why, he asked himself, should he continue shouldering the awesome responsibility that comes with writing the songs, doing the arrangements, teaching the others their parts, both vocally and instrumentally, slaving away in the studio, all the while dealing with a changing audience that was seemingly turning on him and his music?

You are asking people to dedicate their money, and more importantly their time, to reading this book. And excerpts you provide go against much of the truth that many posters here have spent a lot of time fighting for in recent years. There are many in the Beach Boys world that have dedicated a lot of time perpetuating rumors that put Brian in a bad light....whether it is pushback from the amount of Mike Love hatred, I don't know. It doesn't help that Mike Love himself used this same type of misinformation in a lawsuit just over a decade ago for an attempt at a quick buck. So, especially in recent years, many posters here have pushed back against this false idea that Brian is a vegetable, Brian is controlled, Brian effectively quit the band after Smile, Brian did nothing but take drugs and lay in bed after 1967, Carl produced Wild Honey, Mike pulled the band together. The amount of rumors goes on and on, and though I don't at all think people need to berate you, I also think that their anger stems from years of seeing these rumors go unchecked. So when you show up and the chapter you provide has at least one of these rumors, it isn't outside the realm of possibility that people here would get irritated about it.

I also invite you to read Rocky's post history on this forum:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=profile;u=9448;sa=showPosts

Between those posts and what we have seen of the book in its current form regarding Stan, Rocky, Mike, etc, it also leaves a lot of questions relating to why there was an almost 180º turnaround in several opinions about certain people - and yeah, you can say that the publisher, you, and Rocky agreed that the book should be more about the love of the Beach Boys (leaving the tabloid stuff out), yet according to those who have read the book there is still some unflattering perspectives regarding some members (Carl and Dennis) while Mike seems to go unscathed. And in your defense you say that this is due to the time period the book is about. Yet the above quote from the book shows an unflattering and untrue look at Brian Wilson mid-60s and beyond which follows the same tabloid style you claim you were trying to avoid. And I will admit, those rumors were so pervasive that many people believed them without question, so I'm not saying it was intentional on your part. But even unintentional it doesn't make the false perspective correct. You and Rocky may not have even seen this sentence "In 1967...Brian effectively quit the band and withdrew into a cocoon of drugs and disenchantment" as unflattering and untrue, but it is untrue and thus unflattering to Brian. And I think you're asking a lot of people here to buy/support this book when it carries on this myth...again, a myth that Mike Love tried to use as leverage in a lawsuit against Brian not that long ago.

So from many angles (be it Rocky's posts from years back, the 180º turnaround the book takes from some of those posts - and the possible confusion that that makes for us potential readers, the misrepresented look at Brian's late-60s life) this book and anyone defending it was bound (no pun intended) to get some flak.

And while you may not appreciate mtaber's amazon review, he's been one of the few people trying to keep insults being hurled at you in this thread:

I don't see any point in being nasty to Ron.  He wrote a book with Rocky, they got it published, and we (as a group) generally are in agreement that we don't think it's a very good book, from what we've read. I respect Ron's right to write a book, he should respect our right to have a negative view of the book.  

I hope most of the above post helps you understand the backlash you have been enduring. Again, respect to you for coming here and dealing with the backlash in the manner you have. Thanks for being open to at least some of the responses that have civilly pointed out some mistakes in the book.

Happy 2019 to you too!

I respectfully agree with you except for tabor. I posted a reply to him. I don't need his protection on this site. I am repulsed at his behavior on the Amazon. He rated the book. HE HAS NOT READ THE BOOK. It hurt and he had no right to put that on Amazon. It was petty. Period.
Have you read the book? I'm not quite sure if you have or are simply reacting to others who have so I don't quite know how to address your other comments correctly.
Please let me know. Thanks.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 14, 2019, 01:43:14 PM
Yes, I went on Amazon and posted a comment on the book.  I did not claim to have read the entire book.  I stated that I read one chapter and I added that one chapter was more than enough.  I stated my opinion of that one chapter.  I felt that potential buyers of the book should know my opinion, based on the one chapter that you chose to post on this site.  There were three or four other reviews of your book already on the Amazon site, and those reviews were glowing.  Those reviewers have a right to their opinion, as do I. 

You did not read the book. Your review on the site where the book is for sale is a cheap and petty shot at something you have no knowledge of. Why you would go out of your way to bash the book and RATE THE BOOK without reading?  You owe me and everyone that absorbs your ignorant "star" rating of the book an apology.
YOU RATED THE WHOLE BOOK WITHOUT READING IT. IT AFFECTED THE RATING OF THE BOOK. Even if only momentarily it is a disgusting petty act on your part.
YOU HAVEN'T READ IT AND YET YOU RATED THE WHOLE BOOK. GAVE IT A 1 STAR RATING. TAKE IT DOWN.

IT'S A LIE.





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