So I was "lurking" over at the other board the other day, and I saw their thread about Al possibly going on tour with Brian's band.  I think it is very interesting that David Leaf has endorsed the idea.  Just curious, but do we know if he is still in contact with/close with Brian?

Yes, I suppose all of the BRI shareholders are rich enough that they could float some length of touring out of pocket, or partially out of pocket. But touring costs add up fast. I don't think Al could pay fully out of pocket for like a year-long tour.

Could he pay the band members at the same rate and just cover any shortfalls that ticket sale revenue doesn't cover, for like a 5 or 10-gig mini tour? I would assume so. Is it fair to expect that of him, or ask that of him? I have no idea.

I think Al has been breaking even or losing a bit of money on his own touring for awhile now. So I don't think he cares too much about money. But I don't know if he's interested in cutting checks for hundreds of thousands of dollars to do 6 gigs with Brian's band.

They could try to amortize the touring cost a bit by maybe doing a quickie live album or something, I dunno.

I guess I didn't realize how expensive touring can be, especially with a band the size of Brian's.  I'm personally guessing that, if at least a couple shows go through, that Al will use Ed Carter and Bobby Figueroa too (in place of Bob Lizik and Mike d'Amico), or maybe not use Jim Laspesa and have Bobby Figueroa on drums and Mike d'Amico on percussion (or vice-versa?). 

On a semi-related topic, how did Joe Thomas have the connections to finance something like C50 anyway?

I don't blame Al for still being pissed about how C50 ended in 2012.  Let him jab Mike, in my opinion, since (as HeyJude states) there's no chance of any reunion at this stage (with the possible exception of revisiting TWGMTR-era studio material). 

With regards to Al touring with Brian's band, isn't it possible that Al could pay the band at the same rate Brian paid them?  After all, Al picked up a share of the Iconic money and could technically "float" the whole operation, even if it loses (some?) money in the process.

Or... during a slow year revisit past albums. Remix of older albums, outtakes, instrumentals, acapellas. New Smile stuff has been discovered. Tons of stuff from 62-67 could be released. They're sitting on a lot of stuff that if this is indeed a "slow year". Even if it's digital only.

I can't remember who brought this up in the past, probably HeyJude or c-man, but there was a fan-proposed idea of doing an Endless Summer box with outtakes/alternate takes of some of the greatest hits (for example, the session tapes for the songs "Surfer Girl" and "Little Deuce Coupe", IIRC).  That would have been the best possible scenario for a large-scale release this year, in my opinion, with the possible exception of if they decided to do an early 1970s "In Concert" box one year later (2024 instead of 2023).  And someday they need to get to The Beach Boys Today! and SDSN too.  I don't think I realized that there was a large(?) amount of "new" Smile discoveries?

The latest Record Collector magazine issue contains an interview with Mark and Alan and hints at some fun stuff in the works possibly even next year, folks!  Stay tuned.  🤞🙏🤞🙏

I'll have to try to pick that up.

As you may recall if there is to be one, we usually know nothing about it till December. But there may not be one…in the last few years they have gotten around it by-for example-only briefly releasing tracks on some platform and then deleting them. On top of that-1974 and 75 from a recording point of view were not exactly overflowing with material-I think we are more likely to get some sort of archive release about the years 76-77 and if that happens it may be another year.  But hope springs eternal

While I agree one is unlikely, it is possible they could do something like they did in 2019...a digital EP of a handful of songs (for example, "Battle Hymn of the Republic" and any other Caribou recordings that may survive, plus an approximation of an early version of "River Song", etc.).

So I haven't had a chance to listen to "Wish" yet, but I do remember the NFT page being up back in 2020 or 2021.  I'm not sure if the song overdubs/post-production/whatever had been completed at that time, but I definitely remember the NFT page because I thought it was so ridiculous.  Another way to tell that it dates back to 2021 is to use the number of days Dvoskin says on the page it took to complete the song.  After dividing that by 365 and adding it to 1993, it comes out to 2021 (or maybe 2022), which makes sense since the package includes tickets to a Brian Wilson concert "of your choosing" depending on pandemic restrictions/protocol, and since there really haven't been any major restrictions since 2022, that sounds about right.  I'll edit this post, or post again, once I listen to the song itself.

I haven't listened to this, but I am excited.  It's too bad that W.S. Holland didn't live a few years longer (at least) to have been able to contribute to the overdubs.  (Off-topic, but I've never understood why he and Bob Wootton never appeared on any of the American Recordings series songs).

I do a mix of everything.  I have a very large collection of records and CDs, but I also use YouTube and have a Spotify account.  I do try (on Spotify) to mostly listen to music that I have already purchased (physical and sometimes downloads), which makes me feel better about royalties, etc.  So, for example, I have not heard the Sail On Sailor 2022 box because I have not had a chance to buy it yet, and the same is true for most of the recent Beatles boxes (I recently received the Revolver set, but I don't yet have any of the others).

Seems like just repackaging for those of us who have some of the previous sets…or is there some buried treasure there?

I don't think so. It's all the undubbed masters as far as I understand.

These boxes have lost their use imo. Just like the inflationary use of that "anniversary" thing. It's reminding me of Mike using "50 years of..." for all of (?) his tours after the reunion. It just makes it all so cheap. Same with the sets. And look at the messageboards where the crazies call for a box celebraing 50 years of Elvis' last use of a cape and such (just a joke, but, well, the reality is not much better)


Anyway, here's a new one form the Memphis set:


Danny Boy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od6IpMdeRu8


"Danny Boy" is one hell of a performance by Elvis imo. Other acts would kill to have just one performance of this caliber in their catalog.


EDIT:

BTW I just saw this. A new story about Elvis and the BBs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4lFunq5wZM

Starts at ca. 8 mins.

My guess is this will probably be the last major box, since they're running out of ideas and material to work with...with the exception of a possible EIC set (maybe also including Elvis' final concert in Indianapolis, June 26, 1977) in 2027.  (Unless they do something with a Today set in 2025: undubbed masters, partially-overdubbed masters (with Norbert Putnam and Mike Leech's re-recorded basslines), fully overdubbed masters, and that June/July concert "edit" that I think is partially from Dallas?  That's the only other possible box I can think of at this point).

I agree that deluxe reissues are unlikely, but I'd like to see some of his stuff being reissued.  The two mixes of First Love could probably fit on one CD, Country Love (which I kind of enjoy, despite Mike's extremely nasal singing on it) would fit on one CD, and I think it is theoretically possible that Mike could work with Universal to release some of the Celebration material if he wanted to.  According to some quick Wikipedia searches, Mike's 2017-2019 solo albums were released by BMG; BMG reportedly distributes its own material for digital downloads and streaming but hires Universal to do its distribution for physical media.  The Celebration material could fit on 2 CDs total probably; maybe even just 1 disc if you leave out Disco Celebration, which Mike doesn't appear to be singing on (but yet also co-wrote everything on it).  They could even just do a 3 or 4 CD mini-box of the above at a reasonable price, since there wouldn't be a book and I doubt there would be any large booklet (if any booklet at all).  Now again, I'm not saying it's likely, but I think most of the above options are possible if Mike, BMG, and/or UMG were interested.

I suspect that glut of three Mike solo albums in 2017-2019 were not big sellers. Indeed, they had low enough expectations for "Unleash the Love" that they were the ones who asked Mike for the second disc of BB re-recordings.

Now, I'm sure the overheard on those albums was very low. They were not high-stakes investments on the part of the distributors.

I think late 70s/early 80s Beach Boys is pretty niche (there is a market for it, and I hope Iconic/BRI cover that era for hardcore fans), and Mike Love solo material is very, very, very niche. Thus, late 70s/early 80s Mike solo (and adjacent) stuff if niche on top of niche. That being said, there's obviously VERY little overheard in dumping all of his stuff to streaming. "Looking Back With Love" is on streaming right now (implying Mike *doesn't* own that album and whatever entity inherited the Boardwalk catalog owns it).

I think when it comes to *Beach Boys* material, when there is a team organizing and pushing for archival releases as there is now with Boyd/Edelson, etc., then those types of releases can happen when there's momentum and those projects are presented to group members.

Ancient unreleased Mike solo stuff just doesn't have any momentum, and no apparent enthusiasm from Mike himself. He could dump the stuff on streaming, but it'll probably cost more money to have someone master the old tapes than any money he'd make from streaming.

Now, what I *do* think is possible is for at least a bit of Mike solo stuff from that era to be included on *Beach Boys* archival releases. We've seen this already with "Brian's Back" being included on multiple BB sets.

At the very least, and Howie has spoken about this on some podcasts, I think it's worth trying to clear "Almost Summer" for a Beach Boys set, because it's as Beach Boys as other stuff from that era like "MIU", and it's essentially a weirdly "lost" 1978 minor hit for the band.

Hi HeyJude, thanks for the detailed response.  I definitely agree that any "new" archival Mike solo release (unless the new owners of Looking Back with Love run a limited physical release or something) is extremely low.  I hadn't thought about streaming, but that probably would be the least expensive option for Mike (and/or UMG, BMG, etc.) if he went down that road.  

I know Howie has done some podcasts but I haven't had a chance to listen to any of them.  I'll have to search around.  They (the podcasts/podcast episodes) must have some interesting nuggets of information for the "hardcore" fans like all of us here and elsewhere.  I hadn't even thought of trying to clear "Almost Summer" for an archival set.  That definitely makes sense, with Brian, Mike, and Al all co-writing it and (at least) Brian singing on it.  Did Al sing on the recording too?  "Country Pie" might be another good candidate, too, since the band performed it so often in 1978, whenever Howie, Mark Linett, and Alan Boyd get around to it.  

Slightly off-topic, but this is for HeyJude, Howie, Mark Linett, c-man, Joshilyn, or anyone else who might happen to be reading this, is there a reason that the First Love version of Brian's Back has been used over the LA version?  Is the LA version incomplete?  I do enjoy the First Love version, but I'm surprised the team never wanted to try to use more of a "band" version.

EDIT: I also forgot to add: is there any reason that The Beach Boys and Reprise never tried to come to some agreement to allow "Almost Summer" to be on Reprise on MIU and as a Beach Boys single and on the Almost Summer soundtrack.  Also, I'd like to hear "Cruisin'" from the soundtrack on an archival set; it's just a nice classic-style early rock and roll song.  Do we know if Brian or Al are on that or on any other of the Almost Summer soundtrack/early Celebration songs?

I agree that deluxe reissues are unlikely, but I'd like to see some of his stuff being reissued.  The two mixes of First Love could probably fit on one CD, Country Love (which I kind of enjoy, despite Mike's extremely nasal singing on it) would fit on one CD, and I think it is theoretically possible that Mike could work with Universal to release some of the Celebration material if he wanted to.  According to some quick Wikipedia searches, Mike's 2017-2019 solo albums were released by BMG; BMG reportedly distributes its own material for digital downloads and streaming but hires Universal to do its distribution for physical media.  The Celebration material could fit on 2 CDs total probably; maybe even just 1 disc if you leave out Disco Celebration, which Mike doesn't appear to be singing on (but yet also co-wrote everything on it).  They could even just do a 3 or 4 CD mini-box of the above at a reasonable price, since there wouldn't be a book and I doubt there would be any large booklet (if any booklet at all).  Now again, I'm not saying it's likely, but I think most of the above options are possible if Mike, BMG, and/or UMG were interested.

Wishing a very Happy 82nd Birthday to our beloved Brian!!  Zenobi, you worded your post so wonderfully, that I think I'll have to second it (instead of coming up with something more original).

Everything I've read said that Down by the Pier was sung (and possibly co-written) by Carl; I briefly 'lurked' over at the other board today, where it is being reported as being (if I am understanding correctly) a Carl solo song recorded separately from (but shortly afterwards) the BB85 sessions.  Discussion about some other BB85 outtakes is present on the thread there as well.

Yes, it technically ends at 1974, but REALLY ends at 1967. That is the reason I said "practically".

Ok, I understand now.  Thanks.  I'll have to post over in the documentary thread after I watch it. 

Just please don't stop (practically) at 1967, like the 2024 documentary does!

SMiLE, I haven't read your article yet, but when I do, I will edit this post.  The reason I am commenting now is to ask: Zenobi, I thought the documentary stopped at 1974?  (I haven't had a chance to watch it yet.)

Folks should be prepared for this to *not* be the thorough type of documentary people on this board would want.

Remember when John Stamos did that 2000 ABC miniseries movie about the Beach Boys and it stopped in like 1974?

Be prepared for the "coverage" scope so to speak on this new doc to be something more like that.

That's too bad, HeyJude.  You'd think with (what I believe are) good directors like Frank Marshall and Thom Zimny, that would have been at least been a couple parts, maybe along the lines of Zimny's work on "Elvis: The Searcher."  It's unfortunate we won't ever get something Anthology-styled, though obviously it a) would have been difficult to negotiate relationship landmines within the group (even with IAG/Azoff involved, I guess) and b) would have to be somewhat condensed because of The Beach Boys' 60(+) years together(-ish) rather than 10(+ if counting Quarrymen years and their early lives) for The Beatles.

HeyJude, since Frank Marshall is involved, will it be something more similar to the all-too-brief-but-still-very-nice Bee Gees "How Can You Mend A Broken Heart?" documentary from 2020?

Where was Dave's spot in the vocal stack on the first few albums?

Where was Dave's spot in the vocal stack on the first few albums?

I believe Brian wasn’t keen on letting him sing in the records- I don’t think he’s singing on any of them, but I’m happy to be corrected.

From what I recall reading, David Marks remembers doubling Dennis' part, though I also remember reading that those with access to tapes (or really good ears at discerning harmony) have a hard time trying to find him in the stack on those albums.

I think I recall reading here that Brian had Carl and Dennis switch spots in the stack around 1964, but I’m not entirely positive. There has been a little discussion here, if I recall correctly. I believe (at the very least) that the “Sail On Sailor: 1972” box sessionography and the Pet Sounds sessionography on c-man’s website list vocal order in the stack (I’m not sure if that is also true of c-man’s sessionography for The Beach Boys Today).

Hi Till I Die,

Definitely agree with you on pretty much everything (if not everything) you posted.  I definitely trusted Howie Edelson, Mark Linett, and Alan Boyd as they prepared Feel Flows and Sail On Sailor, and I still trust them to this day.  From what I've heard/read/as I understand it, some sort of 2023 box (most likely to celebrate the 1973 "In Concert" live album) was being prepared for some type of release.  Capitol reportedly killed a (physical at first, and then presumably also a digital/streaming) release based on "poor" sales below expectation for the Sail On Sailor box set.  I still haven't had a chance to pick that one up because of the high price it initially had, even though I've heard it's gone down since on various online stores.  I've also heard that this was a source of frustration for many and that the 2022 box cost was higher than the somewhat similarly sized 2021 box set.  So it looks like corporate (American) greed once more killed our chance to hear more archival music. 

Occasionally, they dump bits and pieces for brief periods of time to extend the copyright (like they did on Bandcamp in the past); I don't know if they did something similar this year (I don't think they did, though).  I haven't seen lately if Howie has posted anything here, on the other board, or on Facebook (partly because I haven't had a chance to do much music leisure reading here (and elsewhere since mid-August).   I'll have to try to find some time to relax and see if any new information has been revealed since I last checked.  (I think a 2024 EP of Caribou material is possible, but it really all depends on Capitol, assuming the band and BRI/Iconic are on board).  Fingers crossed!!

PS: what about a fan club subscription service if rare releases in many formats to service the fans.. flac/wav/mp3.

Back in 2006, before I was a member here, there was a plan to make a website/subscription service called Beach Boys Central for that purpose, but it never came to fruition.

Also, The Old Ranger, I don’t know if this was I unintentional, but you posted this in the “Ask the Honored Guests” section.

Some other tracks that may exist that were inexplicably left off the Feel Flows set.  Hope these see the light of day soon:
- Susie Cincinnati (Early version, recorded 12/24/69)

I’m pretty sure c-man and Joshilyn confirmed this existed - or at least did exist. During one thread relating to the recording of this song (maybe on a thread about Brian’s bass credits?), it was confirmed that the credits on 15BO for this song aren’t accurate and combine credits from both versions. The first version has Brian on bass, Carl on guitar, and Al producing the basic track. The second has Al on guitar, Carl producing the basic track, and Dennis Dragon on drums (plus overdubbed rhythm and lead guitars from Carl). Bruce might be playing keyboards, and Captain Daryl Dragon is either on bass on keyboards.

It may have been set to no longer access sites that use http instead of https (which costs extra for websites, and some of us site owners can't afford to pay extra). There may be a setting in the browser you can change to let you access "unsecured" http sites.

So that's the reason why the board doesn't use https?  I never knew that upgrading would cost extra.  Theoretically (Emdeeh, I know you aren't responsible for the board, but as a site owner), would it be possible to upgrade to https if many of us contributed a one-time donation or once-per-year donation?  I'm asking just because everything I've read/heard is that https websites are safer/more protected than HTTP websites.  Thanks!!

NEWLY UNEARTHED Van Dyke Parks SMiLE ACETATE???  Where did this news come from?!

What does it consist of???  Where can I find out more about it???


Love and merci,
Dan Lega 

Dan Lega, I think Rebel is referring to the version of Child Is The Father of the Man released on the Friends copyright dump Wake the World. IIRC, Mark Linett and Alan Boyd weren’t allowed by BRI to buy the acetate and/or Van Dyke’s ex-wife Durrie wouldn’t sell it, but Mark and Alan were able to record that one song over the phone? If I am 100% wrong, I’d love for someone to correct me.

I bet there's still going to be a copyright dump.  Howie hinted at some sort of release in a Facebook post, and it appears to have been referring to a copyright dump given what I've heard from others regarding the "poor" sales of the Sail On Sailor box.  My bet is we see some sort of live 1973 release.  I think we could see an Endless Summer box (as I think c-man or HeyJude once referred to one) with alternates of those classics in 2024, with maybe a copyright dump of the Caribou recordings.  2025 could have both a Beachago live release (maybe as a more mainstream release/single show/best of) and a "1965" box to cover Today & Summer Days and Summer Nights.   Maybe I'm too much of an optimist (on these things; I'm a pessimist on many others - an optimistic pessimist).   

Anyone know why Brian's 2004 solo album "Gettin' In Over My Head" still isn't available to stream or download?  Don't make sense to me, it's a perfectly good album and should be widely available again!

Hi Bedroom Tapes, I don’t have a good answer, especially because I haven’t heard the album myself. I thought the general consensus was that Brian and Melinda aren’t so fond of it now, but I could very well be wrong and welcome a correction if necessary.

I do remember reading in (I think) an interview (conducted by someone I can’t remember) with Alan Boyd and Mark Linett, in which Mark said that he wasn’t aware of that and that he would look into it. I can’t remember exactly when this interview took place but I want to say it was no earlier than the release of the 1968/2018 archive sets and no later than around the time of the release of Feel Flows in 2021.

Hi guitarfool and juggler,

I’m not denying Brian’s unique sense of humor (comedy skits on some of the early albums and also those recorded for Smile), and I agree that the karate kick with Elvis was very likely a joke, meant to be an ice-breaker, etc. However, I have a hard time believing that none of these stories were (drug-) or mental health-related, specifically the one about Brian digging a grave in his backyard. I don’t know as much about Brian’s personal life as you both (and many others here on the forum) do, so I’ll gladly largely retract my statement if you have more info that I likely don’t know about.