Obviously Feel Flows likely coming out in some capacity is great news. I do worry that this bodes poorly for future Copyright Extension releases.

The Sunflower and Surf's Up period has some degree of commercial and critical appeal. But what about things like Holland, Beach Boys In Concert, and Brian's Back? And what about things like So Tough, the Caribou recordings, and things after Love You? Will there be less of an incentive to release further sets that are less viable knowing what qualifies under the copyright law?

I could be wrong, but I don’t think we have to worry about that. Mark Linett and Alan Boyd have talked about wanting to do a Brian Is Back box. I thought the idea of an In Concert box was discussed too, and every other era would probably be done just though CE drops because of the limited demand outside us hardcore fans.

Edited to fix a typo.

I’m fashionably late but Merry Christmas!!

... what if this "samples" release *is* the copyright dump release? i.e., only the samples ... which if I understand correctly, would protect the copyrights.

^ I'm starting to think this is in fact, what happened here.

Agreed.

I wonder what Al thinks (or thought at the time) about this time period. I think I remember reading here on the board that Al didn’t know about or wasn’t invited to some of the sessions, and I think that is extremely interesting.

The whole thing was recorded December 20, 2007. It was available for download the next day for Carl's birthday.

That explains why he sounds great on this!! It’s unfortunate that his voice has gone down over the past few years.

Happy Birthday Carl!!

I’m going to respond really late and thank everyone for this info. I also like the disco HCTN, though I definitely think the single and album versions (not the 12” single) should have been no longer than 5 minutes at the most.

Shane, I’ll have to listen to that SB soon.

thr33, I think there’s a handful on YouTube. I may be wrong though, some might be ARs, but I just can’t remember.

adamghost, agreed fully. Couldn’t they have tried to negotiate where the two labels could have split profits for the single, and each company could have had it on an album (MIU and the soundtrack)? Also, I think I’ve seen your “was here” stickers around, if there are not two Adam Marslands. 

Thanks for the update, Howie!! Can’t wait!!

Goin' On is probably the best Brian and Mike commercial collaboration during this time period. I don't think it's production is as outdated as some of the song on KTSA. It sounds like commercial Beach Boys.

As the guy who asked the question about the vocal (EDIT because I supposedly can’t type) stuff, I’m going to agree that it is definitely an awesome BB song and should have done much better.

There has been the odd social media post during the last few years showing him singing in the studio or something like that and I’m not sure that the outcome of all those sessions has been revealed. It does seem that he has been less active more recently though in fact I’m not sure how long ago the last post of this kind was.

Pretty sure he did some recording for the upcoming documentary. A few songs at least.

A cover of Long Promised Road was confirmed, but it is probably a few years old at this point.

I thought Honeycomb was also discussed, or if not at least it was mentioned that Brian plays it during the documentary.

I also agree that c-man described it well, but I want to talk a little more about “That Same Song.” I know it’s been discussed previously on the board about Brian subconsciously sabotaging the record, or Stephen Moffitt’s engineering ruining the record, but this was one definitely could be better. I haven’t seen the full 1976 TV special, but I have seen the band and choir performing “That Same Song” and that clearly crushes the album version.

Maybe we need to start a 2021 thread, since 2021 dates are starting to get rescheduled.

March 30 -- New Bedford, MA -- Zeiterion Performing Arts Center
The venue has postponed this show, new date TBA

Source:
https://www.southcoasttoday.com/story/news/2020/12/11/zeiterion-performing-arts-center-postpones-indoor-shows-through-june/3894225001/

Oh yeah as someone who was supposed to attend this show, I forgot to warn the board about the “new date.” Thanks for doing it for me Emdeeh!!

He talks about Bill House at Equinox Records, is that the same guy that wrote Make It Big?

If I remember correctly from other info I’ve read on the board, this would be the same Bill House who plays on Sumahama and half of KTSA, assistant produced Rock and Roll to the Rescue, and wrote Make It Big. I’m guessing he likely played on the last two as well.

I think it peaked at #10 on Cashbox in the US - which shows sales were still good. Technically sales were still good until “Break Away” and the switch to Reprise afterwards.

Does anyone know where Brian is actually singing lead on Goin’ On and Sunshine? I don’t know if it’s because my ears or bad or the thick vocal layering, but the only place I can hear Brian is his little answer vocal on Goin’ On.

So there are a few things I can add...

Now if anybody could remind me what is different with the single versions of "Cuddle Up", "Lady Lynda" and "Livin' With a Heartache" I'd love to know cuz I am totally drawing a blank. Whatever the differences, I can't imagine they will ever be reissued any time soon, as I'm pretty sure we are into major trainspotter territory with those.

According to the new ESQ, Bruce said the single version of LWAH cuts about a minute out from the album version.

Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega

Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.

It has been announced that Bob Dylan has agreed to sell all his copyright to Universal Music.

If one looks back many pages back to the description of the decision before the Beach Boys which may have precipitated the original excuse to delay the FF box set, one might well come to the conclusion that a similar offer is/was on the table for the Beach Boys/BRI.

Interesting idea, but I don’t think the band/members doesn’t own the rights to its most profitable publishing material - the Capitol era stuff. Murry sold all of that right? I doubt the band had a big offer for that.

Yep.

And as soon as I heard about Bob Dylan's catalog being worth 300 million bucks, I instantly thought about what members of the Beach Boys must have thought of that, when imagining how much their catalog would've been worth had Murry not sold them out.

I’m surprised it didn’t sell for more to be honest. And I haven’t listened to a lot of Dylan’s stuff, but the way that people talk about him, I’d think at least $500M.

The Brother years onwards is still a valuable commodity - not like 1961-1968-9, but surely more valuable than a hell of a lot of other artists best years.

I think we all agree with you, thetojo, but who knows how many outside of us hardcore fans - especially publishing companies - feel that way or even have listened to this material.

Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega

Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.

It has been announced that Bob Dylan has agreed to sell all his copyright to Universal Music.

If one looks back many pages back to the description of the decision before the Beach Boys which may have precipitated the original excuse to delay the FF box set, one might well come to the conclusion that a similar offer is/was on the table for the Beach Boys/BRI.

Interesting idea, but I don’t think the band/members doesn’t own the rights to its most profitable publishing material - the Capitol era stuff. Murry sold all of that right? I doubt the band had a big offer for that.

Lately, because of Feel Flows, I wonder about Bruce’s mandolin skills. Did Ed Carter or someone else teach him how to play the intro he wanted for Disney Girls and that’s all he knew? Or is something else hiding there?

The mandolin is not difficult to play on a functional level. Bruce obviously knows how to play guitar and since a mandolin is fifths-tuned, all you have to do is take the fingerings for the four lowest strings of a guitar (or bass) and reverse them.

Interesting point I hadn’t thought of. I play guitar and bass, but haven’t gotten around to the mandolin yet (someday, maybe) and didn’t realize it was a “reversed” tuning. Thanks!!

Lately, because of Feel Flows, I wonder about Bruce’s mandolin skills. Did Ed Carter or someone else teach him how to play the intro he wanted for Disney Girls and that’s all he knew? Or is something else hiding there?

... they still didn’t have to “release” all of this for a few seconds?

Depends on which copyright lawyer you ask. I'm beginning to think that lawyers for UMG et al have decided that quiet digital/streaming releases for all of a few seconds qualify for copyright extension; it's just that no one's taken them to court to challenge it. Certainly seems like less of a hassle for the record companies than pressing up 100-500 copies and selling them, like with Dylan.

And even more, how did AllMusic get these samples if they were only briefly up.

Answered here: https://twitter.com/sterlewine/status/1330709405923348480

I’m catching up...but scottythered, thanks for the info and more specifically what I meant is explained below.

... what if this "samples" release *is* the copyright dump release? i.e., only the samples ... which if I understand correctly, would protect the copyrights.

Ding ding ding. That’s making the most sense to me right now.

I've said this elsewhere, but why would they put in effort to include a ton of alternates of released songs from both albums, plus material from 1969 and 1971? Realistically, they only needed to upload 2-3 of these (or maybe 4) in order to protect the copyright.

It's on Brian's FB page. It was just fans asking questions in the comments and Brian replying to them. There was no video.

Supposedly they recorded audio and/or plan to make a transcript for release next week?

I thought about a really good, interesting question that at the same time wouldn't be too much for a facebook post. But I can't think of anything so I probably just gonna ask what his favorite Elvis song ist. I've been wanting to know that for years now.

Rocker were you lucky enough to get a reply?

Maybe the box set isn't releasing until next year, so this is a copyright dump to keep the 1970 material from going into public domain?

That’s my prediction but either way I’m happy

I agree that this makes the most sense but wouldn’t it make more sense to release the bare minimum like they did last year so as not to spill out too much? And even if this is like scottythered suggested,

 

The fact that the release date on this is listed as last Monday suggests this isn't a copyright dump that we'll be able to buy. More likely, it's a streaming-only album that was made available for minutes then taken down -- not unlike what (is believed to have) happened earlier this year with the Beatles 1969 Recordings Spotify album that someone stumbled upon:

https://www.reddit.com/r/beatles/comments/iqld9d/the_saga_of_1969_recordings_a_beatles_spotify/

I'd happily plunk down money to buy it, but I agree that it's more likely a copyright placeholder until Feel Flows is finally released.

... which I think is more likely, they still didn’t have to “release” all of this for a few seconds? And even more, how did AllMusic get these samples if they were only briefly up. The only thing that would make a little bit of sense is if they were able to grab only You Never Give Me Your Money, since it’s only 40 seconds long.

Al Jardine just called in live to Billy Hinsche's show on Facebook and said that the Feel Flows box set will be released in May or June of 2021.

Awesome!! Hopefully this date stays put.

I think Carl’s guitar playing is underrated, and I think he underestimated his ability to play lead on later recordings. He did it well on It’s About Time, LPR, FF, Marcella (I assume), Sail On Sailor, Roller Skating Child (most likely), some of Dennis’ solo stuff (I haven’t really listened to a lot of it yet), and It’s A Beautiful Day (I probably still missed some, too).

I know I should be listening to the samples, but God, I feel like I’d be cheating not waiting for the full box to come out, so I think I’m going to wait.