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It's really sad to see, especially after Sunshine Tomorrow seemed to do so well. Alan mentioned to me that him and Mark expected the studio sets a week later but they were just dropped on Spotify immediately with no announcement. I guess the promo budget went to the RPO album this year, but they could at least act like they care. These sets should've and could've gotten the same level of praise if people actually knew about them.

If anything deserves a big Pet Sounds Sessions style boxset though it's Sunflower. So I guess there's hope?

wjcrerar's answers/ points look the best & well-detailed than anybody's in the "different" (not really since he/she admitted they're neutral) side. Plus politer than The Lovester's & such. Thanks.

Thank you, I didn't wanna stir things further and I'm glad (I think) that I haven't. Maybe world peace is possible after all.

:heart eyes:

^In that case, I apologize. There’s a running joke with some of those people basically saying that GF is the moderator and I’m just a lackey, or Melinda’s employee, or whatever other sh*t is being tossed at me that week, and I thought you were joining in on that. Withdrawn

As for the other thing, well look at my posts in this thread and others.  I’ve warned people publicly and privately for trying to start up something between the boards. And yeah much of it has been private so you don’t know exactly everything that’s going on, but don’t assume dude. Seriously. And to tell the truth  I was very disappointed at how Craig’s banning went down and how it was ok for him to be jumped on but not for him to respond. That spoke volumes. So am I going to tell him “nah brother, you don’t have the right to be angry “? Hell no.  I have no issues with Dick nor Watamushi on a personal level. I mean, hell, I participate in the voting threads and I’m the guy who pinned the discord link to begin with! I myself am ready to call it a day and say ok f*** it, it happened so let’s move on. But if I’m the type of guy I keep getting accused of being we wouldn’t even by having this discussion. Please don’t confuse kindness for weakness . Without fail though no matter what I do I’m invariably going to piss someone off just by my very job...if I stay neutral and impartial both sides end up getting pissed off

I’m glad you at least can state that you would feel the same way if the roles were reversed. Sadly you’re one of the few then, and that issue is the crux of the problem here

That's all fair, sorry it came off as a jab. Like I said, I joined both forums around the same time after all that drama happened and I have no personal allegiance to any of it, or issues with any individuals beyond what's gone down since I've been at both places. Wasn't even aware of the running joke. I'm relatively neutral on Craig's banning from PSF because I think everyone there involved in flaming the squabbles should've been removed, and long before they were, but I understand where you're coming from. Thank you for a reasonable response.

"I myself am ready to call it a day and say ok f*** it, it happened so let’s move on."

Yes, please

Was the bolded part directed at me?

It was broadly directed at the mods for letting the comments against Dick and Watamushi slide. You may disagree, I just don't think it's right.
[/quote]


Considering it was stated as “other mods” and I’m the only one besides Craig, I wouldn’t call it “broadly directed “. So in the same spirit of the insult  directed at me, I will ensure this reply will not be  incredibly weak. What WAS incredibly weak of me was  letting sh*t get to this point  which wouldn’t have happened had I seen Doe for what he was. What  was incredibly weak was me continuously trying to keep the peace to the point where my wording was used in a mocking manner in a troll account. What’s NOT incredibly weak is the question I’m asking right now...if the names were reversed and GF had proactively banned one of the PSF mods here and the same thing happened over there, would you have a pro with it? Honest question.

If people just fucking knew what I’ve tried to do behind the scenes to straighten things out... nah, that was incredibly weak of me
[/quote] 

That wasn't an insult, dude. No need to take it that way. This is just going round in a circle. I thought Rab was also a mod, which was a dumb mistake so sorry for that. It wasn't meant to be directed exclusively at you but my point still stands.

If the roles were reversed, yes, I would act in exactly the same way. I don't give the remotest of shats (you can't say sh*t here without it being censored and looking funny) which forum it's coming from, and I couldn't care less about your personal beef with Andrew Doe which I have nothing to do with. Watamushi and Dick Rising being insulted like that have nothing to do with AGD and neither do my opinions.

[This is an incredibly weak and disappointing position to see the other mods take, and that's coming from someone who joined both forums at around the same time long after the original schism happened.]

Where was the harrasment? Honest question because I am trying to get up to speed. Just made it home and reading the last few pages is giving me a hell of a headache

“Yes, again I stand by what I said about Watamushi and his activity here, but he was completely full of sh*t in regards to my wanting to come there strictly to cause problems, and my confrontational posts.”
“Watamushi, if that's the kind of crap you'll use to moderate over there, I hope the reasons why you're giving Filledeplage and Manning free passes are worth it. Because your credibility just went down considerably.”
“Wondering who the mods think she is, unless there is another reason why they never take any action if she's involved or why it feels she can break any rules she chooses and gets a free pass.”
“Yes, of course my posts were pulled out of context and distorted to fit what Watamushi and Dick/Kane needed it to fit. That's how they justified their bullshit actions and bullshit in general, but it obviously isn't true as even observers reading through it are noticing.

So Watamushi and Dick, in your new capacity as the two mods running the place, are you happy that your first action is based on bullshit that outside observers are noticing and calling out as bullshit? Not to mention your complete avoidance of those like Filledeplage and Manning who publicly took a sh*t on your orders and posts and did what they wanted, and got away with it.”
“They could also answer why Watamushi posted comments of mine to justify a ban, comments taken out of context  that someone who isn't even a member there read, analyzed the context perfectly,  and called out as the bullshit it is? ”

“What do you call ignoring certain members' breaking of the board rules and constant shitting on your actions as a mod while calling out and scapegoating others if not playing favorites? For f**k's sake, it's not like no one is noticing this hypocrisy”

“So guys, Dick and Watmushi, if you're going to publicly try to pin this on me and assign things to me that did not happen, your credibility exists somewhere on the level of Rocky Pamplin, the topic of the thread where all this went down. Enjoy that with the 10 or so posters who get coddled and given free reign to disrespect you as moderators regularly.”


“When it reaches a point where the most recent moderators over there have to invent reasons to post why someone was banned, and make sh*t up based on their needs versus what actually played out (and can be readily seen in public posts) it's all but a lost cause.”

“Nice job guys, or guy in this case since it seems Watamushi was alone in putting the ban on Filledeplage and perhaps Dick found the whole thing too "draining" and didn't agree with banning a favored member.”

“Clusterfuck of the highest order.“

“Dick/Kane and Watamushi were either afraid of upsetting certain favored posters there, or they had marching orders to follow from other sources, or they're simply not good at moderating a board that averages between 20-30 readers and hasn't grown beyond that in over two years. That may say it all.

If they're going to run that place based on lies and allowing lies to stand (and liars to do whatever the f*** they want...), they'll have no credibility. They're on the level of Stan and Rocky, or even more pathetic, on the level of original admin Dirk/drBeachBoy who ran the board from Doe's back pocket until he flipped out on the mods he chose as the original admin and got banned from his own board for not following the rules.”


This wasn’t even all of it.

Ok I understand where you’re coming from, but also understand that he was responding to actions taken in an official capacity as mods that he can’t respond to over there due to his ban

My two cents: there's a PM function and both are users over here. There's no need to repeatedly slander them in public for just trying to make what they felt was the correct decision. Dick's told me he feels the situation could've been handled better, because others in the wrong also should've been dealt with at the same time, but I think it was the right call in the long term considering the nauseating history of bickering (between GF and...everyone else? doesn't that suggest something?) and exactly what's currently happening here on this thread. This is an incredibly weak and disappointing position to see the other mods take, and that's coming from someone who joined both forums at around the same time long after the original schism happened. And I have been made aware (in detail) of exactly how ugly it got. Doesn't change my opinion at all. I don't get involved in the forum squabbles, and I post at both places, but the mess of this thread and downright nastiness prompted me to jump in and say something for the first time.

And no, Dick Rising is not secretly The Lovester for anyone believing that for some reason.

Was the bolded part directed at me?

It was broadly directed at the mods for letting the comments against Dick and Watamushi slide. You may disagree, I just don't think it's right.

To wjcrerar... My history of bickering with everyone else? Look, you came here with your mind made up that I'm the asshole and everything Dick, Watamushi, Filledeplage, and the others said is true.

But it's not. And if you either cannot see or don't want to accept what others who read through the whole episode have seen and posted about it, and how the impression being given by the mods and others is false, then consider checking out what they're saying rather than trying to take some swings at me for your friends. I knew what you were doing when you posted a plug for Discord and said how terrific of a job Dick is doing, then immediately two posters who haven't been active in a year show up out of nowhere and start hammering away too.

And all of it happened as Dick Rising seemed to be parked here in this thread last night, reading and watching it all unfold, at least every time I got notice there was a new post. Hey, the PM thing works both ways. I was accused of and held responsible for things others did that I did not do, and not a single word has been said by those two mods who did it, other than a ridiculous backpedaling and after-the-fact ban of Filledeplage who started all this sh*t in the first place...only after people here were calling out the bullshit decisions.

The burden isn't on me. How about Dick and Watamushi stand up and take responsibility for fucking this up and showing favorites when they said they would not.

And if this doesn't involve you  apart from being an observer who came here to plug Dick's Discord server and tell us how great of a job he does (and take some shots at me in the process)...why did you come here to further fan the flames? Leave that to the likes of "The Lovester" and the others.

Alright guitarfool, there's a lot to unpack here. Do I (mostly) agree with Dick and Mushi? Yes, because they're good people who were trying to keep the peace by getting rid of someone who seemed to consistently derail threads into arguments whenever they posted. Filledeplage? No, because I think her and that whole cohort of people also responsible for starting the bickering and bringing up old grudges should've also been banned from the offshoot. But I'm not a mod, and that's not my decision. I'm glad it has been dealt with now and I think the level of vitriol against the mods for taking too long to get a difficult decision right is completely unnecessary. It's banning actual grown adults for arguing on a message forum about the Beach Boys, for god's sake.

No, I did not come here with my mind already made up that you were the asshole, thank you very much. I formed my own opinion from observing comments on both boards over a long period of time, including watching the meltdown that happened when you first joined, and from watching all of this unfold I don't think you were the sole cause of the problem. But you were a very significant part of it. The others who instigated those fights were equally in the wrong but after everything I've seen I think it's just dishonest to claim you had no part whatsoever in fuelling that fire. The pettiness of, again, GROWN ADULTS ON FORUMS ABOUT THE BEACH BOYS squabbling over whatever personal issues you've had makes both here and PSF a toxic environment every time it happens, which is a sentiment alluded to several times on this thread and one that I don't think anyone would disagree with. Nor do I blame anyone for not wanting the sites they run to be the battlegrounds for this rubbish. Or for them finding it challenging to find a solution to that problem when many of the people involved have been active in the fan circle significantly longer than they have (reply 'tough sh*t' if you want, but have some empathy, yeah? again, Beach Boys forum).

And yes, jumping in the thread like I did yesterday was unnecessary, so I apologise for that. But in the same way you ask what it would be like if I were in your shoes and defend comparing Dick Rising and Watamushi to ROCKY PAMPLIN (you have to laugh so you don't cry), don't you think it's a little understandable that I'd want to bite back and defend people who I like and respect? For transparency, I'm one of three admins on the Discord (although Dick is the original server owner), and yes, I think we do a perfectly competent job. Case in point, nothing of this (I'm not even sure what word you could use other than this) sort has happened. You can understand why that'd sting a little and that would be something I'd choose to bring up when annoyed, right?

I'm appealing to you as a human being who I think is redeemable and hasn't fully gone off the deep end (despite the Boydening). You clearly have excellent musical knowledge and I've enjoyed reading a lot of the things you've written. Just...do some critical reflection. Think about how all this comes off.

If you disagree, that's fair. We'll leave it at that. I didn't want to get dragged into this but I felt it was worth defending my friends. That's all I have to say.

Here's some advice from an aging father who should be doing more constructive things. Delete this thread,

The smartest thing anyone's said yet.

Where was the harrasment? Honest question because I am trying to get up to speed. Just made it home and reading the last few pages is giving me a hell of a headache

“Yes, again I stand by what I said about Watamushi and his activity here, but he was completely full of sh*t in regards to my wanting to come there strictly to cause problems, and my confrontational posts.”
“Watamushi, if that's the kind of crap you'll use to moderate over there, I hope the reasons why you're giving Filledeplage and Manning free passes are worth it. Because your credibility just went down considerably.”
“Wondering who the mods think she is, unless there is another reason why they never take any action if she's involved or why it feels she can break any rules she chooses and gets a free pass.”
“Yes, of course my posts were pulled out of context and distorted to fit what Watamushi and Dick/Kane needed it to fit. That's how they justified their bullshit actions and bullshit in general, but it obviously isn't true as even observers reading through it are noticing.

So Watamushi and Dick, in your new capacity as the two mods running the place, are you happy that your first action is based on bullshit that outside observers are noticing and calling out as bullshit? Not to mention your complete avoidance of those like Filledeplage and Manning who publicly took a sh*t on your orders and posts and did what they wanted, and got away with it.”
“They could also answer why Watamushi posted comments of mine to justify a ban, comments taken out of context  that someone who isn't even a member there read, analyzed the context perfectly,  and called out as the bullshit it is? ”

“What do you call ignoring certain members' breaking of the board rules and constant shitting on your actions as a mod while calling out and scapegoating others if not playing favorites? For f**k's sake, it's not like no one is noticing this hypocrisy”

“So guys, Dick and Watmushi, if you're going to publicly try to pin this on me and assign things to me that did not happen, your credibility exists somewhere on the level of Rocky Pamplin, the topic of the thread where all this went down. Enjoy that with the 10 or so posters who get coddled and given free reign to disrespect you as moderators regularly.”


“When it reaches a point where the most recent moderators over there have to invent reasons to post why someone was banned, and make sh*t up based on their needs versus what actually played out (and can be readily seen in public posts) it's all but a lost cause.”

“Nice job guys, or guy in this case since it seems Watamushi was alone in putting the ban on Filledeplage and perhaps Dick found the whole thing too "draining" and didn't agree with banning a favored member.”

“Clusterfuck of the highest order.“

“Dick/Kane and Watamushi were either afraid of upsetting certain favored posters there, or they had marching orders to follow from other sources, or they're simply not good at moderating a board that averages between 20-30 readers and hasn't grown beyond that in over two years. That may say it all.

If they're going to run that place based on lies and allowing lies to stand (and liars to do whatever the f*** they want...), they'll have no credibility. They're on the level of Stan and Rocky, or even more pathetic, on the level of original admin Dirk/drBeachBoy who ran the board from Doe's back pocket until he flipped out on the mods he chose as the original admin and got banned from his own board for not following the rules.”


This wasn’t even all of it.

Ok I understand where you’re coming from, but also understand that he was responding to actions taken in an official capacity as mods that he can’t respond to over there due to his ban

My two cents: there's a PM function and both are users over here. There's no need to repeatedly slander them in public for just trying to make what they felt was the correct decision. Dick's told me he feels the situation could've been handled better, because others in the wrong also should've been dealt with at the same time, but I think it was the right call in the long term considering the nauseating history of bickering (between GF and...everyone else? doesn't that suggest something?) and exactly what's currently happening here on this thread. This is an incredibly weak and disappointing position to see the other mods take, and that's coming from someone who joined both forums at around the same time long after the original schism happened. And I have been made aware (in detail) of exactly how ugly it got. Doesn't change my opinion at all. I don't get involved in the forum squabbles, and I post at both places, but the mess of this thread and downright nastiness prompted me to jump in and say something for the first time.

And no, Dick Rising is not secretly The Lovester for anyone believing that for some reason.

Would like to take this opportunity to shill the Beach Boys Discord server, where approximately none of this inter-board drama has happened and it continues to not happen. And Alan and Mark are joining us in the near future for a Q&A. Lovely stuff.

Coincidentally the server owner is our local Dick Rising, who - as I'm sure everyone there can vouch for - does a perfectly fine job. Word.

After what happened with Dick's bungling the moderating on the PS Forum and helping expose what's going on over there with favored posters who are above the rules and lies allowed to stand unchecked, no thanks. In fact I thought you were joking when I read this after what happened in the past 48 hours.

That's cool, the invite isn't extended to everyone.

Good, then stop shilling for it here in a topic where it has nothing to do with anything. Dick screwed up - If the dishonesty and favoritism shown by his moderating on the PS Forum extends over to "Discord", you'll be averaging 20 readers just like the forum he moderates.

Oh, and this is off-topic, so maybe take any further shilling or whatever you're doing to the "Discord" thread where it's on-topic. Here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25934.0.html

 

We usually have more activity than both forums together actually, but no problem. Sorry for bringing it up in the wrong topic.

Discord is a funny word but it is a site that exists and isn't made up, so the quotation marks are a lil unnecessary.

Edit: Just to add to this, I think it's perfectly on-topic to bring up in the context of someone I consider a friend being unjustly badmouthed (and compared to Rocky Pamplin?? oh, you) again and again over several pages of a thread. I would've thought the tiny incredibly subtle connection between exactly what's happening here now and the reason for what happened in the first place would've maybe been self explanatory but...no, I'll stop myself there.

Would like to take this opportunity to shill the Beach Boys Discord server, where approximately none of this inter-board drama has happened and it continues to not happen. And Alan and Mark are joining us in the near future for a Q&A. Lovely stuff.

Coincidentally the server owner is our local Dick Rising, who - as I'm sure everyone there can vouch for - does a perfectly fine job. Word.

After what happened with Dick's bungling the moderating on the PS Forum and helping expose what's going on over there with favored posters who are above the rules and lies allowed to stand unchecked, no thanks. In fact I thought you were joking when I read this after what happened in the past 48 hours.

That's cool, the invite isn't extended to everyone.

Would like to take this opportunity to shill the Beach Boys Discord server, where approximately none of this inter-board drama has happened and it continues to not happen. And Alan and Mark are joining us in the near future for a Q&A. Lovely stuff.

Coincidentally the server owner is our local Dick Rising, who - as I'm sure everyone there can vouch for - does a perfectly fine job. Word.

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