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648663 Posts in 25947 Topics by 3701 Members - Latest Member: Little E. Honda July 20, 2019, 05:24:13 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Lonely Days - what's on the master tape? on: July 11, 2019, 04:06:26 AM
Sounds like the Hawthorne mix is the 'untouched' track. That said, there does appear to be an obvious edit cue before the breakdown where the track would repeat again with a copy (exactly the same way Here Comes the Night and Aren't You Glad were recorded), so the repeating version on Sunshine Tomorrow 2 with the tag section edited on is probably accurate to the intended structure. I think that second chorus/tag on ST2 is a separate section on the tape that just wasn't used on Hawthorne for whatever reason, or on ST1 where instead they opted to just let the first part of the track play out again in full without vocals.

So: recorded as a 'Part 1' (verse/chorus/bridge back to verse) and a 'Part 2' (fade chorus), with the intended structure being Part 1/Part 1 (up to the chorus)/Part 2, maybe with another repeat of Part 1 depending on how many verses were planned. Here Comes the Night cycles the same short track section three times.

I remember reading somewhere that the vocals took a lot of editing to get them into usable shape, it'd be interesting to know what state they're in on the multitrack.

That rehearsal clip on Unsurpassed Masters/Get the Boot is confusing - the rehearsals on ST2 make it seem like the basic track was Brian on piano and Carl on bass, but here you've got them doing multiple takes of what I thought were the overdubs with Carl on drums, either Bruce or Brian on organ, and another bass track. Also, note that the master take has a completely different bass tone to Carl in the ST2 rehearsal!! (Ron Brown?)
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian as multi-instrumentalist on: July 05, 2019, 11:46:43 AM
Drums on "Honkin' Down The Highway" are actually Dennis.
Harmonica on "Santa Ana Winds" is actually Tommy Morgan.
No evidence that Brian played guitar on "Breakaway", but evidence that Carl did (along with session players).
Likewise, drums on "Sail Plane Song" appear to actually have been Carl, overdubbed after Al (!) played off-mic drums during the tracking session.

Accordion on "Mona" is an interesting possibility - the track sheet includes a notation for that instrument, but no AFM sheet exists to indicate it was an outside player. And remember, Brian took accordion lessons as a kid, so maybe!  Can you quote a source for that, wjcrerar ?

Huh, didn't know that about Sail Plane Song, I was going off of an old post by Desper where he broke down his notes from the session. Then again, I haven't heard the session tape! (P.S. Sail Plane Song wasn't in the 20/20 issue of ESQ - you got the credits for the rest of that?)

Can't remember where I read about Mona but it does make sense. You can hear it in the right channel and it's a very simple part, seems unlikely that it'd be an uncredited outside musician in the scope of Love You.

Edit: Another one for the pile is melodica on various Smiley tracks!
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian as multi-instrumentalist on: July 04, 2019, 11:55:43 PM
Drums on Sail Plane Song and Everybody, lead guitar on Where is She and Tennessee Waltz, accordion on Mona, harmonica on Susie Cincinnati, Good Time, I Just Got My Pay, Santa Ana Winds etc, Hawaiian style percussion on Diamond Head
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs That Could’ve Fit On Pet Sounds on: June 22, 2019, 06:20:32 AM
Not that it changes anything, but the music for Lonely Sea was mostly written by Gary Usher before he first collaborated with Brian. Brian's contribution was coming up with most of the lyrics and refining the melody.

Interesting, I know I've heard that before too.

Did Gary ever do a demo? Do we know what melody parts specifically Brian refined?

Not that I know of, source is James Murphy's book. I checked it again and it actually just says Gary showed Brian the chords and Brian wrote the lyrics but I swear I remember hearing that melody thing somewhere. Maybe I'm thinking of something else, either or both of them could've come up with the melody from there, doesn't go into any more detail.

I wonder how many times Brian has ever been asked about Lonely Sea, either by fans or interviewers. I'm guessing *very* few, which is a shame.

Off topic, but I feel like I've read a similar story about All I Wanna Do, in that it was a melody that Mike had, which Brian then tweaked/developed. Or maybe it was just the vocal melody/lyrics as opposed to the song's melody. I dunno. Curious what the source is for that, and any other details.

That's a story I've heard for Let the Wind Blow (Mike came up with a 'prayer', probably the main verse part, then Brian expanded it as the basis for a song), but weirdly I've never actually seen any specifics on the writing of All I Wanna Do. I think that's sort of just an assumption fans have repeated in recent years from Mike re-claiming it and Brian not having much to say about the song, but the actual music seems pure Brian to me. Wouldn't be surprised if it came from the batch of post-India songs they wrote including Meant for You and Anna Lee.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs That Could’ve Fit On Pet Sounds on: June 19, 2019, 11:26:27 AM
Not that it changes anything, but the music for Lonely Sea was mostly written by Gary Usher before he first collaborated with Brian. Brian's contribution was coming up with most of the lyrics and refining the melody.

Interesting, I know I've heard that before too.

Did Gary ever do a demo? Do we know what melody parts specifically Brian refined?

Not that I know of, source is James Murphy's book. I checked it again and it actually just says Gary showed Brian the chords and Brian wrote the lyrics but I swear I remember hearing that melody thing somewhere. Maybe I'm thinking of something else, either or both of them could've come up with the melody from there, doesn't go into any more detail.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs That Could’ve Fit On Pet Sounds on: June 19, 2019, 11:18:28 AM
Not that it changes anything, but the music for Lonely Sea was mostly written by Gary Usher before he first collaborated with Brian. Brian's contribution was coming up with most of the lyrics and refining the melody.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do we have any definitive info on \ on: June 14, 2019, 07:48:10 AM
I'll have to dig around for the exact source on this, but engineer Earle Mankey said the first thing he ever recorded with Brian was Ding Dang. Apparently it was a Carl session, Brian happened to be there, and one way or another they ended up recording that too just to make the most of the studio time. If "Is This Really Love" was that song Carl was working on, the June 10 '74 date would make sense. IIRC Earle's first session with the Beach Boys in general was Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me in January that year so it'd have to be '74 at the earliest. And I don't think it could be later than that, because Brian speaking at the start sounds like his younger voice.

Not sure on the exact date but there's an interview with Brian from early '74 where he talks about working with Roger McGuinn recently (also mentions him owning a secret laser beam), so Roger's recollection of it being the Landy era is probably mixed up. There's also the "Brian's Jam / Clangin'" session at Brother in March which I think is another variation with no vocals that exists in the vaults. Whatever the date, the Ding Dang on Love You is from before Rollin' Up to Heaven and the Caribou trip for sure. In the '76 live rehearsal they sing the "alley oop" parts from Rollin' that don't feature in Ding Dang.

Edit:

This is from David Leaf's book (in the context of stuff Brian did around '74) -

Quote
Brother Studio engineer and record-producer Earle Mankey remembers the first time he worked with Brian in the mid-70s. "At one session of Carl's, somebody said to Brian, 'Let's cut a track,' and he said, 'I have this great song, it's called "Ding, Dang."' It was a legendary track, and it was around, as I understand it, for a long time."

This is from an article in '77 -

Quote
Earle remembers the first time he did a session with Brian. "About a year and a half ago, before 15 Big Ones was released we did some basic tracks and Brian was very tense in the studio. We recorded a version of 'Ding Dang', and a few weeks later waxed a song called 'Back Home.'
"Things started clicking," Earle recalls. "Carl came into the booth when we were playing back the track and said, 'Earle! This is the way it used to be! This is it! You're seeing it! It's happening now!"
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Synths in the Brian's Back Era on: June 10, 2019, 10:03:10 AM
That's a great breakdown, thank you!
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Synths in the Brian's Back Era on: June 10, 2019, 09:06:15 AM
So, I know that a Moog 55 was used to produce all of the synth sounds in the home studio era (and they had the custom ribbon controller theremin-imitation Moog but I'm not sure that was ever used in the studio), and Brian used an ARP Odyssey during the Iowa Spring sessions in late '72/early '73, but am I right in thinking the synths at Brother '74-beyond were a Minimoog, Moog Taurus bass pedals and ARP String Ensemble?

Basically, the reason I'm asking is I'd read that Brian used the Taurus bass pedals a lot on Love You, but not knowing much about the instrument I was wondering if that could've been used for all of the basslines on the album or if it was more likely some combo of that, the keys on a Minimoog, and/or a full Moog modular if they had one at the time. There's the really distinctive, crunchy fart bass across most of the album that's kinda Love You's signature sound (Mona, I'll Bet He's Nice, Let Us Go on This Way etc), meanwhile a few random tracks from the era like The Night Was So Young, I Wanna Pick You Up and Marilyn Rovell have a totally different low-key sort of tone and I have no idea if those sounds would've come from the same synth or not. The bass sound on the non-big-band Adult Child songs is different again.

I've never seen that said (or written) about the Taurus pedals...I agree that the synth bass sound on most of Love You is quite a bit different than other synth bass-used tracks from the era, but I always chalked that up to effects used on mixdown. If he DID use the pedals, I'd assume he pounded them with this fist or palms rather then feet. Is this from reliable source?

If you google there are quite a few offhand mentions of Brian using the Taurus on wiki and forum threads and such, I'm not sure what the original source for all of those is though. The attack and simple lines on Mona and the Airplane tag sound pedal-y to me but I don't know what the logistics would be for pulling off something like the bridge of Let Us Go on This Way. Maybe Earle Mankey would know?
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Synths in the Brian's Back Era on: June 10, 2019, 08:09:08 AM
So, I know that a Moog 55 was used to produce all of the synth sounds in the home studio era (and they had the custom ribbon controller theremin-imitation Moog but I'm not sure that was ever used in the studio), and Brian used an ARP Odyssey during the Iowa Spring sessions in late '72/early '73, but am I right in thinking the synths at Brother '74-beyond were a Minimoog, Moog Taurus bass pedals and ARP String Ensemble?

Basically, the reason I'm asking is I'd read that Brian used the Taurus bass pedals a lot on Love You, but not knowing much about the instrument I was wondering if that could've been used for all of the basslines on the album or if it was more likely some combo of that, the keys on a Minimoog, and/or a full Moog modular if they had one at the time. There's the really distinctive, crunchy fart bass across most of the album that's kinda Love You's signature sound (Mona, I'll Bet He's Nice, Let Us Go on This Way etc), meanwhile a few random tracks from the era like The Night Was So Young, I Wanna Pick You Up and Marilyn Rovell have a totally different low-key sort of tone and I have no idea if those sounds would've come from the same synth or not. The bass sound on the non-big-band Adult Child songs is different again.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Funky Pretty on: May 19, 2019, 06:23:27 AM
An LP can only contain so many minutes of music. Including MVaFA in the plate would drastically hurt the sound quality. They could record more tracks and give Warner a double album (yeah right  Cheesy) or any number of Beach Boys could volunteer to take out their tracks to acommodate MVaFA.

Easy one - take out Leaving This Town.  Grin

Hold on there a second.  Some of us happen to love "Leaving This Town."  It's probably my favorite track on Holland and one of the Beach Boys' best in the entire decade, IMO.

Ha! Ten years ago almost to the day. Grin

Saw this while looking around for info on whether Marilyn might have been involved in the tag of "Funky Pretty".

I must say, I have to agree 100% with busy doin nothin. Smiley

I think Marilyn is on the tag of Funky Pretty singing the "ooooooooh funky" part with Brian. I'm sure she's mentioned it as something she sang on. So the tag is Blondie, Mike, Carl, Billy Hinsche, and probably Marilyn+Brian together. As for the rest of the song, the vocal credits thread here isn't quite right, Ricky has no lead vocal spots.

12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Alt. Smile Box Extended & New Link on: May 04, 2019, 10:18:44 AM
The footage is from an unidentified session at Western 3 in October before the group went on tour, they were shooting the promo video for Good Vibrations. Fire was Gold Star, November 28.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 09, 2019, 12:45:22 PM
Al sounds less 'breathy' on the first verse because he's doubled by a second Al in the right channel. If you A/B them, including each isolated vocal on the first verse, the timbres are absolutely identical. Not once did Mike's voice ever sound close to that, outside of the spectrum of the Beach Boys all just having similar-ish voices. I'm surprised there's even a debate about this one.

Edit:

Here are the single-tracked leads for each verse isolated back to back - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1prMf7wIaLs__ubkdX54HZrBYQJmYyxQx/view?usp=sharing

And the vocal double on the first verse in the right channel - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Eakys8XeevsbWxpaIWTBfVcz1SJERkiM/view?usp=sharing

All three are clearly Al.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 01, 2019, 02:42:01 PM
  How many of you, like myself thought it was Mike singing the lead in All This is That? So it Amazes me, that while Carl and Dennis have distinct voices, it's non family member Al that most resembles Brian and Mike vocally!

Mind is blown. For YEARS since I first heard this song, I thought that was Mike. I just went back and relistened.
Did someone tell you, or did you figure it out? I can hardly believe it!

I don't recall how I figured that out. I know we have an official vocal thread, so if there were any doubts, it confirmed that it is indeed Al.
It's both of them. They each sing a verse.

Nope, same vocalist on both verses, both Al. Only difference is the first verse is double-tracked.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: This Week in BB History-March 29 to April 7 on: March 30, 2019, 09:50:32 AM
I realize it was a bit long this time!


Don't worry about that!

I thought "Old movie" was an early version of "Cuddle up". Was it used as a working title for both songs or am I wrong about "Cuddle up"?

An early no-lyrics totally different version of Cuddle Up exists as Ol' Movie (guessing from the post-SU Dennis solo album attempt sessions), and I'm pretty sure it was also used as a working title for Fourth of July before Jack Rieley came up with the lyrics (not a different version though, it was just called that when the backing track was recorded).
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Shortenin' Bread: are earlier versions online? on: March 22, 2019, 08:27:58 AM
A while back I compiled a list of all the pre-LA studio Bread variations, may as well copy it in here as a guide. Corrections and extra info welcome.

Shortenin' Bread (v1) - circa Spring 1973, studio unknown - The O.G. bread, track recorded with David Sandler for American Spring sometime after the Iowa sessions along with backing & bass vocals. Carl's lead added in 1977 for inclusion on Adult Child.

Brian's Jam - March 2, 1974, Brother Studio - Shortenin' Bread variation. I think this might be in the vaults, no vocals though.

Clangin' (v1) - March 2, 1974, Brother Studio - Similarities to the Breads, but closer to the I'm the Pied Piper piano riff. Since a version is from the same session as Brian's Jam I'm guessing if they have the tape for that they'll have this. A tape also apparently exists of Brian and Harry Nilsson jamming on a variation that's in the possession of Micky Dolenz.

Ding Dang (v1) - either Fall 1973 or June 10, 1974, Brother Studio - The Ding Dang we all know & love that ended up on Love You. Not sure if the June 1974 date is accurate or if that corresponds to another version entirely.

Brian's Tune - November 4, 1974, Caribou Ranch - aka Rolling Up to Heaven or 'Dirty Ding Dang'. Circulates on bootlegs.

Ding Dang (v2) - May 29, 1975, RCA - Version recorded for California Music. Unknown non-Beach Boy on lead vocals. Does not circulate.

Clang - June 1976, Brother Studio - From the session when I'm Bugged at My Ol' Man was filmed for the It's OK special, this is the "mow mama yama holy hallelujah" chant (revived for Lucky Old Sun) sung by the group around Brian playing the Shortenin' Bread riff at the piano. About the same tempo as the 90s version of Proud Mary, only a rough take. Does not circulate.

Clangin' (v2) - circa Fall 1976, Brother Studio - A version of Clangin' that definitely does still exist from the Love You sessions. Features the typical Love You arrangement of tack piano/organ/farty Moog bass/basic drums, a couple of Brians repeatedly sing "clangin', clangin', clang I'm a-dingin', I'm a-clangin'" until the heat death of the universe (very similar to the ending of Bells of Madness). Was on the lineup for the proposed Brother re-issues bonus tracks, does not circulate.

17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rare stuff on Brian's instagram on: February 21, 2019, 12:46:03 PM
That's gotta be an 80s backing track though, with Brian's 80s voice. Plus it being Terri. There's an early/scratch version of She Says That She Needs Me circulating and it's nothing like this. More than one version of Melt Away and There's So Many etc. were recorded, not unreasonable to think it's just a different take from '87.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Smile Songs Used In Other Albums on: February 14, 2019, 03:09:11 PM
With Me Tonight was originally a SMiLE recording wasn't it?

The first 2 You're With Me Tonights (Vegetables bassline & vocal arrangement on Hawthorne and the harpsichord version on the Smile Sessions) are from early June, so technically Smiley, but they're before moving to the home studio so they kinda feel more Smile. Same with Cool Cool Water v1. Those and Love to Say Dada were all after the album was cancelled anyway.


maybe a stretch but I hear a little Love to Say Dada in Aren't You Glad

Taped detuned piano strings with a similar rhythm and a major 6th, definitely not a stretch!
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Smile Songs Used In Other Albums on: February 14, 2019, 03:04:34 PM
The Heroes and Villains (or River Deep Mountain High) bassline briefly shows up in the bridge of Be Here in the Morning Darling, the arrangement of the Wake the World verses borrows from Do You Like Worms's rhythms, the melody of Whistle In is loosely adapted from "mahalo lu lei, mahalo lu la", the horn break in Time to Get Alone sounds like it's building on some ideas from Look. Had to Phone Ya has shades of LTSDD/CCW in the chord progression.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension Release Thread on: February 12, 2019, 02:09:32 PM
technically the 20/20 sessions digital release last year jumped the 50 year copyright extension gun, since while Friends LP was 1968 (for Wake The World sessions), 20/20 originally was 1969

so now that we're over a month into 2019 what (other) 1969 material still needs such extended copyright protection?  BreakAway

that would seem to be it.  with a stretch one could include the UK 45 single version of Cottonfields which's of course a 1970 release there (recorded in 1969).  the US 45 also is a 1970 release but it's the 20/20 version which's already been covered on the sessions.  over a year went by for them to release it as a single from the album (probably a capitol move, although that doesn't exactly explain why Al went ahead with his revised recording)

so mssrs boyd & linnet could take a breather and give us nothing more until 2020, for the copyright extension release of Sunflower material.  And there's certainly a ton there

With that overload my conjecture is some of it (sunflower)--that which's known to have earlier recording dates--could jump the gun and come out at the end of this year.  while the other half of material would be a 2020 copyright extension release.  that fragments sunflower so maybe they'll scotch my idea.  a quandary with no singularly good answer

p.s.:  it seems confusion could be had between the calendar year 2020, vs. the title of the beach boys album



20/20 was entirely recorded in 1968. The copyright rule applies to the recording date, not the release date, otherwise there'd be no reason for it to exist. So plenty of 1969 material that could be included.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce Johnston's 1968 Solo Project - Polydor - \ on: February 08, 2019, 01:07:32 PM
The backing vocals on With a Little Help just sound like Carl and Mike double-tracked to me.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: February 07, 2019, 09:54:17 AM
.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 26, 2019, 11:37:37 AM
I don't know if this has much bearing on the dates for the theory, but on Unsurpassed Masters you can hear Brian slate the second and third parts of She's Goin' Bald as "Section 2" and "Section 3", and that third part is so closely musically related to the Speeches half I'd be really surprised if it was originally meant for a different song. Then again Brian doesn't say what they're sections of, so I guess it might be possible. The 'Hawaiian Song' ukulele part is also in F# after all. Just I can't see the piano track for Section 2 of SGB being meant for anything other than the goofy spoken part before vocals were added, and both that and Section 3 sound like they're being recorded at the same session.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 23, 2019, 03:10:03 PM
Was there actually any more to Hawaiian Song? Or was it just an early working title for Little Pad under which that one section was recorded?
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Brian contribute to the writing of \ on: January 21, 2019, 03:24:20 PM
The Michel Colombier arranger-as-writer thing makes sense for Deirdre. Still though, interesting that back in June 1970 not long before release Bruce doesn't even mention Brian in that context -


"We have now got two new albums ready for release. 'The Fading Rock Group Revival', which will be our last for Capitol, should be out around the end of July. It will contain 10 tracks, including 'Loop-de-Loop', 'Deirdre' which I co-wrote with Michel Colombier, our previous hit 'Breakaway', possibly an unaccompanied version of the 'Lord's Prayer', and a song called 'Forever' which we are also considering as our next single. After that album, we shall be bringing out 'Sunflowers', which will be on our own re-activated Brothers label."

Speaking of Al and Brian, is there a general consensus on who wrote (and produced) what for At My Window? I've read one quote about Al remembering writing it (without mentioning Brian) and another from Brian where he says Al wrote the lyrics. Brian responsible for reworking the Raspberries Strawberries chords/melody after Al brought him the song maybe?
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