I just thought of one more. In Here Today when you hear background chatter, Brian says "put the top back on" Speaking of Al's coffin!

Good call, MTR, you have doggie ears and the mind of an addled amateur detective.

I'm not sure why people are getting angry about this thread. Nothing serious here. We aren't making fun of Al. We are making fun of the Paul is dead conspiracy.

Cranberry sauce.

Looking for clues in the Sunflower cover. Mike is the preacher with white robes, Dennis the grave digger. Al with cowboy hat and vest, might be the gunfighter, mowed down. Lol on the inside sleeve, maybe Bruce is driving the hearse...

"Ronda" Al was chastised by Murry for not syncopating enough, like a true jazz musician would, and presumably eventually did, to Brian's satisfaction at least, thereby becoming hep and "with it.". "Rhonda" Sal/Pete was one of the "clean livers", the antithesis of hepness and beatitude. OK, I'm reaching here.....

Not as good as Looking Back with Love.

It's a close thing, but I give POB the nod by an RCH.

Quite a trail of deleted posts, what did I miss? Sal doesn't seem too popular 'round these parts.

Wonderful, wonderful album, happy anniversary POB. I wish it hadn't come down to a choice between Tug of Love and End of the Show, if they could have added ToL it would have been more magnificent.

Man, two mics and Bruce didn't adjust either one!

Nice find. Charmingly schmaltzy to have McCoo and Davis Jr. sing excerpts from each song, but at least it gives us a prolonged glimpse of McCoo's lovely visage. In hindsight, IMO This Masquerade should have taken the honors, even if IWtS was written about Brian like they say, which might sway some opinions here.

Possible names for Sal (Reggie Dunbar, Rumbo, Pete, Libueno). Somewhere in these names lie a clue.

Help Me Ronda was sung by the real Al, while Rhonda was sung by the fake Al. The extra H means 'has been'. Murry, who loved the original Al, hated Sal.

The original Al, a folky, was a musical genius as they found dozens of recordings called the Cottonfield tapes in 1968. Over the years, the Beach Boys have rerecorded many of the original Al's songs: Lookin At Tomorrow, California Saga, Lady Lynda, Santa Anna Winds, Don't fight the Sea and Postcard were all demos before he died in 65. Sal wrote Island Girl.

All Sal-ient info. When At My Window was being composed, the bizarre patois attributed to the birds outside his window were trying to tell the world in their inimitable way that a new iteration was on the scene and to look out because, as Sal/Pete/Libueno said to David Leaf once (true story): "You know, you got it wrong, there are 5 geniuses in this group."

Rumor has it that Zeppo Wilson tied Al to those train tracks. If you listen really carefully to the fade out of "Be With Me", you'll hear a recording of Al screaming, just before the train hit him.

Perhaps there is a clue in the train scene of Marx Brothers Go West!

Funnily enough, during that scene Groucho at one point yells out "Tote that barge, lift that bail!" from "Ol' Man River", which the group recorded.

Zeppo Marx had left the trio by that time, but he was visiting the set that day and overheard the line, and described the scene to his namesake/doppelgangerZeppo
Wilson years later, inspiring and prompting Brian to want to work out a vocal arrangement of the Jerome Kern classic.

Honestly, I just assume that Scott Bennett wrote all of the music on the album; that way, I can only be pleasantly surprised if it turns out Brian actually wrote some of it.

It's a patronizing oversimplification to criticize people's motives in wanting Brian to have composed a particular piece of music. It's not just shallow hero worship and idolatry, it goes to a more profound issue of having faith in and deriving pleasure from the creativity of someone important to you, that you identify with. If one discovers that one's favorite musical piece in an album was in fact written by someone else. it can be disillusioning or at least disappointing, although hopefully one can enjoy it just the same for what it is, whoever composed it. I'm like that with Midnight's Another Day from the album, it would be inspiring to think that BW was capable of writing something that good by himself at this point in his life, although I know that's probably not possible.

Did you ghost write SIP in 1992 then?

What kind of god do you take me for?

If you are indeed a God of humor then why don't you try to come up with some Al/Sal/Pete/Libueno ideas to jump-start the moribund Jardine thread, in honor of Zeppo Wilson (not to mention Gummo). It's silly but there's great opportunity for creativity there, although it requires a certain type. But I digress.

Though I kinda get what you’re saying; the entirety of Pacific Ocean Blue keeps flowing to new and exciting places from the get go. I mean some songs will start with a piano and end with a brass band, others have some of the most beautiful string sections relating to Beach Boys music.

I really think POB is a friggin masterpiece, where you have to let the whole thing envelop you to get a full appreciation for it.

To back you up, I feel like ‘Be With Me’ goes nowhere - but yet it is one of my favorite BBs songs ever (I just love the mood, lyrics, etc). Cuddle Up is another that I feel fits your description - the song just goes on far too long.

POB took me awhile to fully appreciate. I liked it at first, but didn't *get* it fully. Now I think it's utterly brilliant and hard-hitting. A slow grower.

5 years passed by & I still don't like it except POBlues, "River Song" & "Rainbows", i.e. catchiest songs.

Oh man, IMO you're really missing the boat on "Moonshine", "Thoughts of You" (saddest 3 minutes in pop music history), "You & I", Tug of Love (didn't quite make the cut, replaced with End of the Show). All (subjectively) wonderful.

Rumor has it that Zeppo Wilson tied Al to those train tracks. If you listen really carefully to the fade out of "Be With Me", you'll hear a recording of Al screaming, just before the train hit him.

Oh wow, man, like, that's spooooky.

Possible names for Sal (Reggie Dunbar, Rumbo, Pete, Libueno). Somewhere in these names lie a clue.

Help Me Ronda was sung by the real Al, while Rhonda was sung by the fake Al. The extra H means 'has been'. Murry, who loved the original Al, hated Sal.

The original Al, a folky, was a musical genius as they found dozens of recordings called the Cottonfield tapes in 1968. Over the years, the Beach Boys have rerecorded many of the original Al's songs: Lookin At Tomorrow, California Saga, Lady Lynda, Santa Anna Winds, Don't fight the Sea and Postcard were all demos before he died in 65. Sal wrote Island Girl.

'Nuff said. SalPeteLibueno coulsdn't hold a candle to the original Al, which makes me even more surprised that Faul/Billy Shears has been able to so closely approximate Macca's talents through the years. Zeppo and Sal collaborated on "Beach Boys Dirge", a lament for the burgeoning dysfunctionality within the band and a statement of their solidarity in the face of adversity (i.e. Mike), with The Band, just after they finished jamming with Dylan at Big Pink.

But I really hope they start moving away from an exact chronological/album approach and start looking at what is the BEST material in the vaults to put out there. There are about a THOUSAND outtakes from the 70s that are more interesting than what's left of the 60s.

Strongly disagree!

To each his/her own of course, but there are at least a dozen or more tracks on that "Brother Proposed Bonus Tracks" CD set that interest me more than *another* edit of "Can't Wait Too Long", or "My Little Red Book", and so on. I love all of the tracks of course, and I absolutely support a 68/69 set.

But a demo of "'Til I Die", an extended version of "This Whole World', a pristine mix of "Carry Me Home", and alternate version of "4th of July", and many other tracks need a release and interest me more. Let's also remember that those "Proposed Brother Bonus Tracks" were probably compiled in 1999 or 2000 or so, and there are surely even more things that have been uncovered since then.

But hopefully BRI will put it *all* out, and then we won't have to debate which era deserves an archival release more.

Add to these the "I've Got A Friend" instrumental track languishing in the vaults.

It's Over Now is a contender.

quote author=Hickory Violet Part IV link=topic=25373.msg617678#msg617678 date=1502963678]
On their own these theories appear far fetched, crazy even. Added together though, a worrying picture begins to emerge.  There is no doubt in my mind now that we have uncovered a startling conspiracy. I started this thread as a joke, looks like the joke's on me.

Perhaps some sort of photographic comparisons are needed. With some science.
[/quote]

Maybe the long-suppressed Zeppo Marx film footage could shed some light on this mystery, if he could be located. He was last seen taking a left turn at Albuquerque.

A similarity between Faul and Sal (Pete). Faul wanted to changed the credits of Beatles songs to just Lennon or McCartney if only one of them wrote it. Ringo, Harrison and Yoko voted against him. The Beach Boys voted for Mike to have the right to tour using the name Beach Boys, but not Sal (Pete).

Sal (Pete) when combined is similar to saltpeter, which is rumored to be added to Army food to decrease soldiers' sex drives. One reason Carl supposedly wasn't willing to serve, in addition to his absolutely legit consciensciously non-violent beliefs, was for fear of permanent damage to his reproductive abilities from this adulterant (referenced in Brian's seemingly random "Let Go of Your Libido" asides during the Hang On To Your Ego sessions). "Keep It Clean" faux Jardine adopted the names in private in deference to Carl's ethical stand, and it leaked to conspiracy theorists, who inadvertently went with Sal(tPet)er's program.

"Libueno" was another monicker that faux Al went by for a short period after the release of Sunflower in 1970, taken from the cloying, nonsensical dialect featured in his "At My Window" from that album, which early BB pseudo-historian Ken Barnes dubbed a "bizarre patois, no doubt equally offensive to both man and beast."

This explains why Mike wouldn't allow Sal Jardine to use the Beach Boys name!

- Al was buried in a cornfield (or cotton field) inwhich crows cried to uncover after being run over by a train. Killed by the mysterious man who ran the iron horse. Also referenced in "like a free train off a track.

- The imposter's name is Pete as exposed in the song Take a Load Off Your Feet sung by Al.

- David Marks real reason for quitting was because he refused to work with Pete at the time.

- Sail On Sailor is in reference to the Beach Boys sailing on without Al on Summer Days/Nights over

- Winds of Change/Santa Anna Winds is in reference to Al's  spirit influencing Pete

Brilliant deductions!

His nose is on the critical list!

And after standing there in the cold for awhile, he'll be like Mickey Mouse with a sore throat.

His songwriting style was inherently sort of fragmentary and "bumpy", with odd time signatures and pauses, almost maddening at times, but to me the overall effect is idiosyncratically artistic, earthily eccentric, evocative and non-commercial. Sales and formula were clearly not of paramount importance to him, unlike some.

Do You Like Worms was clearly written for Al. Brian and VDP pondering how Al likes them worms eating his corpse six feet underground... Grotesk, but hey, that's art.

"Our Prayer" is really a prayer for his eternal soul. Macca is now known as "Faul" by the conspiracy theorists, and the replacement Al has been dubbed "Sal" by some, after Sal Valentino of the Beau Brummels, for obscure, unexplained reasons.

Seriously though, just watch the tape and you'll see everything you need to see. Respect isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Alright, let's try "admire". I admire the fact that Mike ws probably the only one in the room to speak the truth. I concede that it wasn't the best situation to do it in though, and much of the rest of what he said embarrassed the group.

I suppose that's a fair statement to make, even though I don't quite agree with all of it.

Would you say you admire those who call out Mike for missing the Hawthorne dedication too? Aren't those people just speaking the truth too? Serious question.

I thought he *did* attend it. Unless I'm confusing it with something else. I remember seeing footage of Mike, David, and I believe Brian. Somebody held up pictures of Carl and Dennis. If that wasn't the actual dedication, then I admit that he essentially did what he called Paul out for doing.

Nope, he unfortunately did not attend it. I would know because I was there myself, and it was a really sad thing to witness firsthand. Really quite sad. All of these old-school Hawthorne people were there, a really cool physical monument was unveiled (made by Dennis' own son Scott, who built it), and Mike was a no-show.  And he had the added chutzpah to publicly state that he was too busy being on tour or something to that effect.

See, once you witness that firsthand in front of you, it becomes mighty hard to have respect for the guy for saying what he did in such a manner in 1988, and who has had no self-awareness of the hypocrisy in the years since;  despite doing the exact same actions himself in 2005, he continues to this day to double down on not apologizing for what and how he said what he said in 1988. It boggles the mind, and the situation is both hilarious in its ridiculousness as well as utterly sad.  

You might be thinking about the Capitol rooftop reunion which was in 2006.

It was indeed the Capitol rooftop reunion I was thinking of. I didn't know that Dennis's son made the actual monument. For that reason alone Mike should have been there. I do recall a particularly evil thing Mike once said when the Wilson house was destroyed. I believe he called it "poetic justice".

That was a bad moment, Jay. Something just occurred to me: I think one thing that particularly irks many folks about him is that the Beach Boys represent something very important to them, a symbolic ideal of good times, comfort, beauty or what have you, more than most bands,
and for that ideal concept or entity to have a nasty presence continually marring it in their eyes with bad acts and statements is doubly irritating, for that reason. The reverse of what the Wicked Witch of the West said: "how can such a little girl destroy my beautiful wickedness." How can such a mean old man diminish our wonderful music? Just a theory.

Someone, somewhere is sitting on a potentially unheard H&V edit containing  unique versions of IIGS and Children Where Raised sections.

Every few years I'm going to bump this thread.

Please do.

What in the flying f*** does that have to do with the topic being discussed? Take your predictable hate speech somewhere else.

Some of us who have been pushed over the edge by his latest outrage i.e. the ill-timed, solo(!) McGrath-blemished DIA, right on the heels of the glorious Sunshine Tomorrow, are reacting to this equally ill-timed thread with a NIMBY attitude. Yes, we could just refrain from comment and let you ML deniers pat him and each other on the back ad nauseum, or we can express a dissenting opinion. That is what some of us are choosing to do, here and now. If you don't like it, lump it.

Get ahold of yourself if you can. Preferrably in a private area where no one else has to watch you! Honestly, Sunshine Tomorrow is not going to sell millions of copies and win the group countless new fans; I think it was on the Billboard album chart for 1 week. It's manna from heaven for us diehards, that's all. And Mike's DIA single has already been forgotten everywhere but here.
Seriously. There are other things in this mixed up muddled up world in which we live in to be worried about.

I have very firm hold of "myself", thank you. I just had an overdue reaction to some of the blinder-wearing ML defenders here over the years whom I have never addressed. Also, just because most of the world may be oblivious to DIA, it was another nail in the cumulative coffin of the BB brand's respectablilty as has been said before, and just because most people are not passionate or perceptive enough to care (arguable) doesn't affect me, my opinions or my desire to express them, one way or another. It's fine to have positive opinions about his contributions, which I share, but this thread is ill-timed and there is going to be pushback from some.