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658605 Posts in 26375 Topics by 3742 Members - Latest Member: Soulful Old Man River June 03, 2020, 09:18:35 PM
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51  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Joe Thomas 2.0 on: May 18, 2012, 03:53:40 PM
Here's an example of how the band might've sounded. There's another video from the same appearance with Willie Nelson doing "Warmh of the sun"
Lay down burden:

Is it my imagination (no pun intended) or was Matt Jardine in that video?  Does anyone have more info about this particular lineup and how often they played? 
52  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Who played what in the current set list - a breakdown on: May 16, 2012, 08:41:40 PM
I did this for my own amusement, and thought people might be interested: following is a list of all the songs played so far on this tour, and which of the currently touring Beach Boys, to my knowledge, originally played on them, followed by some stats (you might want to skip to the stats):

Do It Again - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
Catch A Wave - Mike, Brian, Al, Dave
Hawaii - Mike, Brian, Dave
Don't Back Down - Mike, Brian, Al
It’s Okay - Mike, Brian, Al
Surfin' Safari - Mike, Brian, Dave
Surfer Girl - Mike, Brian, Dave
Please Let Me Wonder - Mike, Brian, Al
You're So Good to Me - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
Wendy - Mike, Brian, Al
Then I Kissed Her - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
The Little Girl I Once Knew - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
Dance Dance Dance - Mike, Brian, Al
Kiss Me Baby - Mike, Brian, Al
Why Do Fools Fall in Love - Mike, Brian, Al
When I Grow Up - Mike, Brian, Al
Cotton Fields - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
Disney Girls - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
Marcella - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
Don't Worry Baby - Mike, Brian, Al
Little Honda - Mike, Brian, Al
Be True to Your School - Mike, Brian, Al, Dave
Little Deuce Coupe - Mike, Brian, Dave
409 - Mike, Brian, Dave
Shut Down - Mike, Brian, Dave
I Get Around - Mike, Brian, Al


Add Some Music - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
California Dreaming - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
Sloop John B - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
Wouldn't It Be Nice - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
Forever - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
Sail On Sailor - Mike, Brian, Al
Heroes & Villains - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
In My Room - Mike, Brian, Al, Dave
All This is That - Mike, (Brian), Al
This Whole World - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
I Just Wasn't Made for These Times - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
God Only Knows - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
That's Why God Made the Radio - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce, Dave
Good Vibrations - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
California Girls - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
All Summer Long - Mike, Brian, Al
Help Me, Rhonda - Mike, Brian, Al,
Rock and Roll Music - Mike, Brian, Al
Do You Wanna Dance - Mike, Brian, Al
Surfin' USA - Mike, Brian, Dave


Kokomo - Mike, Al, Bruce
Barbara Ann - Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce
Fun Fun Fun - Mike, Brian, Al

They’ve played 49 songs so far, of these:

Mike was a full member for all 49!!  100%

Brian was a full member for 48 songs - all except Kokomo - but he was probably only on 47, since I don’t think Brian was on All this is That. 96%

Al was a full member for 42 of the songs. 86%

Bruce is where it gets fun!  Bruce joined for the Summer Days album, (but wasn’t on Help Me Rhonda), quit for Carl and the Passions, (but was on Marcella.)  I counted Bruce, Brian, Al, and Mike as all singing on all the Pet Sounds songs, although I don’t actually know if that’s the case.  Bruce was on 21 of the 49 songs. 43%  This was a bit lower percentage than I expected.
Dave played on 11 of the 49 songs.  22%

But take an actual setlist, and the statistics change ever so slightly.  At the Westchester County Center the band played 45 songs:

Mike 45 of 45 - 100%
Brian 43 of 45 - 96%
Al 38 of 45 - 84%
Bruce 19 of 45 - 42%
Dave 11 of 45 - 24%  - None of Dave’s songs rotate out of the set, and it's remarkable that Dave originally played on about a quarter of the songs in the current show - just goes to show that the “lost Beach Boy” really had a huge impact.

Finally, songwriting breakdowns - again using the 49 song list:

Do It Again - Mike, Brian
Catch A Wave - Mike, Brian
Hawaii - Mike, Brian
Don't Back Down - Mike, Brian
It’s Okay - Mike, Brian
Surfin' Safari - Mike, Brian
Surfer Girl - Brian
Please Let Me Wonder - Mike, Brian
You're So Good to Me - Mike, Brian
Wendy - Mike, Brian
Then I Kissed Her - Cover
The Little Girl I Once Knew - Brian
Dance Dance Dance - Mike, Brian
Kiss Me Baby - Mike, Brian
Why Do Fools Fall in Love - Cover
When I Grow Up - Mike, Brian
Cotton Fields - Cover
Disney Girls - Bruce
Marcella - Brian
Don't Worry Baby - Brian
Little Honda - Mike, Brian
Be True to Your School - Mike, Brian
Little Deuce Coupe - Brian
409 - Brian
Shut Down - Brian
I Get Around - Mike, Brian


Add Some Music - Mike, Brian
California Dreaming - Cover
Sloop John B - Cover
Wouldn't It Be Nice - Brian (not counting Mike’s lawsuit credit here - I counted the rest of them)
Forever - (Dennis)
Sail On Sailor - Brian
Heroes & Villains - Brian
In My Room - Brian
All This is That - Mike, Al
This Whole World - Brian
I Just Wasn't Made for These Times - Brian
God Only Knows - Brian
That's Why God Made the Radio - Brian
Good Vibrations - Mike, Brian
California Girls - Mike, Brian
All Summer Long - Mike, Brian
Help Me, Rhonda - Mike, Brian
Rock and Roll Music - Cover
Do You Wanna Dance - Cover
Surfin' USA - Mike, Brian


Kokomo - Mike
Barbara Ann - Cover
Fun Fun Fun - Mike, Brian

Covers, 8 of 49 songs, or 16%.

Of the originals:

Bruce - 1 of 41. - . 02%
Al - 1 of 41. - . 02%
Brian - 38 of 41. - 93%
Mike - 24 of 41. - 59%
And one Dennis song. 

No real surprises here, but confirmation that Brian dominates the songwriting, and that the Beach Boys do a surprising number of covers for a band with so many great songwriters.  Finally I was amazed at how unrepresented Al’s songwriting really is - he doesn’t have a single of his own songs in the set except All This is That with Mike. 

Also, I absolutely love this tour and do not mean to come of as ungrateful, but I do think it is a little bit sad that 16 percent of the set list consists of covers, and yet there isn’t a single Carl Wilson composition except, again, All This is That, which is Al’s only songwriting credit in the show too.  Interesting.
53  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best Book on Wild Honey - Surf's Up Era? on: May 16, 2012, 12:28:19 PM
One of the best sources for this kind of info from this period imho is the Stephen Desper-pedia.  I dunno where it went, is it still online?  It was full of fascinating stories and info.  Presumably Stephen Desper's book Recording the Beach Boys is an even better source, but I haven't read it, and I don't have any idea how I would go about acquiring a copy. 
54  Smiley Smile Stuff / Concert Reviews / Re: Show 14: Westchester County Center, White Plains, NY: 5/15/2012 on: May 15, 2012, 09:16:30 PM
Since there's almost nothing on this show, I'll jump in!  Here's the setlist - from memory, so I may have mixed up the order on the first set a little.  I was at the second Mohegan Sun show, and I'm pretty sure they changed around the order in the first set, moving Then I kissed Her up, but I'm not totally positive.  But this is definitely the songs:

Do it again
Catch a wave
It’s Okay
Surfin Safari
Surfer girl
Please let me wonder
Your so good to me
Then I kissed her
Dance dance dance
Kiss me Baby
Why do fools
When I grow up
Disney girls
Be true to your school
Don't worry baby
Little Honda
Little douce coupe
Shut down
I get around

Second set:
Add some music
California dreamin
Sloop John B.
Sail on sailor
Heroes and Villains
In my room
All this is that
God only knows
Good vibrations
California Girls
All summer long
Help Me Rhonda
Rock and Roll Music
Do you wanna dance
Surfin USA

Barbara Ann
Fun Fun Fun

It's Okay was really fun for me - especially since after the introduction of Kiss Me Baby at the Mohegan show I wasn't expecting to here anything new in this set!!  But objectively, Don't Back Down worked better, the energy kind of lagged in It's Okay.  It was still really high energy, but the tempo is just a bit slower, and the band was still a bit rough around the edges (which makes sense).

Of the three shows I've seen so far, (2nd Mohegan, 2nd Beacon), Brian was far and away the most alert and active in this show - but also the most inconsistent in terms of the quality of the vocals.  On Heroes and Villians he gave a very enthusiastic "Here we go!" before the big vocal break.  In Surfer Girl and PLease Let Me Wonder, the sound guy had his mic too low - you couldn't hear him at all on the bridge to Surfer Girl, and the vocals were still to low in PLease Let Me Wonder.  Brian was also a bit more timid, but it's hard to tell what was the volume and what wasn't.  She's So Good to Me was super enthusiastic (for Brian) - but not as in tune as the last two shows I saw.  By Marcella, though, I thought Brian was sounding great.  Also, he did way more (basic, perhaps pretend) piano playing, and was much more involved in the backing vocals of this show than the previous two shows I saw him at - there weren't really any songs were he totally sat out, where as at Mohegan it felt like he zoned out for good stretches of the show. 

Disney Girls gets better each time - Bruce sounded amazing tonight. 

The crowd, which was surprisingly young, went absolutely wild for Wouldn't It Be Nice - the biggest response of any song of the evening, frankly.  Mike was really taken aback, commented that he wished he could take the crowd with them.  I think that to younger fans, Wouldn't It Be Nice is one of the Beach Boys biggest, most iconic songs, whereas some of the older fans (and the audience at Mohegan) pretty much sat through it as if it was a deep cut.

Overall, it was definitely a great show.  Also Bruce mentioned that they played the Westchester County Center in 67 with Buffalo Springfield and the strawberry alarm clock, which was cool!  And the County Center, although not known for hosting concerts, was a great venue - sound was good, crowd was lively.  Of course, the Mohegan crowd was kind of dead, and very much senior citizen, so it's all relative. 

I may post more thorough reviews of all the shows I've seen at some later date, but for now I figured someone better report on this one! 
55  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New album info (as it rolls out...) on: May 15, 2012, 12:00:42 PM
I think its worth noting that there may be less Joe Thomas involvement in the songwriting than it looks like, since Joe Thomas seems to be mainly a lyrics writer, I would imagine that the songs with a Thomas, Wilson, and Love credit were first written with Joe Thomas lyrics, then stripped down to just tracks and got new lyrics from Mike Love.  In that kind of situation the old writing credits would generally all stay, but the song would still be substantially brian music and mike words.
56  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Meeting the band on: May 08, 2012, 03:55:10 PM
Hi all -

Over the years I've read lots of stories on this board about fans meeting the Beach Boys in all sorts of contexts, and was wondering if people have any suggestions for getting to see or meet either the principle Beach Boys, or members of the backing band.  I'm not particularly interested in autographs or pictures (though I wouldn't turn either down!!), all I really want is to say hi and shake hands.  I got to meet Al and Dave after an Al Jardine show last summer and it was really a thrill, but obviously this tour is a much bigger deal.
I have tickets for three upcoming Beach Boys shows (Beacon, Mohegan, and Westchester), but the Beacon show I'm going by myself on the 9th so I can go as early or stay as late as I want. 
Obviously the VIP package would have done the trick, but they're quite pricy. Does the existence of VIP packages totally preclude the possibility of just showing up really early and getting lucky?  Tips?  Suggestions?
57  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Reminder: Beach Boys on Fallon Tonight - May 7th, 2012 on: May 07, 2012, 09:54:07 PM
The whole things online!!
58  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Oldest Song to Receive Live Debut In Performance where BW & ML are Both Present on: May 06, 2012, 05:45:09 PM
OK so I'll conclude that I Just Wasn't Made For These Times is the one.

I suppose a lot of pre-65 tunes would have been done live at the time simply because of the lack of material, and because they would have fitted the ethos of the time and place (cars & girls).

I doubt that Brian and Mike have ever done Little girl I Once Knew on stage together before this tour.  And I wonder about some of the earlier stuff too...I know that they were playing tracks like Catch a Wave, Why Do Fools Fall in Love, etc. in the 90s, but Brian went out so rarely then, and I'm not sure that they played all those early cuts in the 60s before Brian quit touring - I would be curious of one of those might qualify, but otherwise Little Girl would be my guess.

Of course, I don't have the kind of historical knowledge about Beach Boys setlists that some of those who lived through the 70s, 80s, and 90s, have, so I don't know for sure.
59  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you think \ on: May 06, 2012, 05:40:55 PM
For a long time, I thought it was influenced by Darlene Love's "Strange Love", but I just found out that that song was unreleased until 1991 when it came out on the Spector Back To Mono box. How the hell do you have a song that good and not release it!? Baffling.

Strange Love was on The Wall of Sound Vol. 5, Rare Masters, which is a (not-bootleg) vinyl compilation from the mid-70s, and one of the most incredible  records.  It's indeed unbelievable how much incredible material phil spector didn't release in the 60s - and your point of course still stands.
60  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: April 21, 2012, 11:05:31 AM
The first line is pretty much note for note the first line of "Your Summer Dream" -  but I don't mind in the least, it sounds like a beautiful song and i'm suitably excited!
61  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl and Dennis as Holograms on: April 16, 2012, 04:25:08 PM
I'm looking forward to the future when you can go see all sorts of great bands in hologram form. and the tupac technology was astonishing.  Also, my understanding is that it's not video footage turned into a hologram; they create the hologram and then make it do things, so, according to the company in one article I read, they could make a hologram performance of someone who'd never been on stage before.   In the context of the reunion, I agree that it would be disrespectful and a poor decision, but one day seeing all the beach boys on stage in their prime...could be pretty amazing.  
62  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: I don't know if anyone has done this before... on: April 14, 2012, 10:52:38 PM
I have a related pet-theory that I'm rather fond of, which is that the Beach Boy's music can be seen as following a single trajectory from surfin safari to holland, and then repeating that trajectory in a condensed, degraded way. 

So in this theory you have the early success playing in some ways simple but very innovate music, the music gets more and more sophisticated, hits an artistic peak, then falls apart, then rebuilds itself. 

So in this (admittedly rather silly, but I like it) theory, 1976 is when the band starts over:

15 Big Ones is the degraded version of their early, rock n roll period, complete with moments of surprising musical sophistication, but only occasionally, and surprising mainstream success (rock n roll music).  Then Love You is the degenerate version of today/summer days, way more sophisticated, fun, by turns serious and summery/teen oriented.  Pacific Ocean Blue, released soon after Love You, is Pet Sounds, the sophisticated, stunning, culmination of 70s Beach Boy music. Then Adult Child and the music brian made around that period is equivalent to Smile, much more musically sophisticated than what came before in many respects, but also much weirder and more experimental at times, and it all falls apart without being released.  MIU is the rest of the band trying to pick up the pieces, with Brian very much pleasant but not leading - the degraded version of friends and 20-20.  LA Light album is Dennis and Carl taking over and being more current and hip, and also better - the parallel of Sunflower and Surf's Up.  Finally, Keepin the Summer Alive is the degraded version of Carl and the Passions/Holland, with its rootsier sound. 

In 1985, the cycle begins again, except this time its even more condensed and degraded.  Beach Boys 85 is the degraded version of their entire career through holland, fed through a mid-80s drum machine and spit back out.  Then kokomo and Still Cruisin is the (again, improbably successful) degraded version of 15 Big Ones/Love You era.  Summer in Paradise is the degraded version of MIU-Keepin the Summer Alive.  And Stars and Stripes is the degraded version of the Beach Boys '85 album and the whole trying to be relevent while pleasing everyone and not doing anything exciting. 

And then, mercifully, the cycle breaks completely in 2012 with an improbable and incredible new album!!

So that's my cyclical theory of the Beach Boys.

Note: when I say degraded, I mean that the music is literally degrading, falling apart, fragmenting.  This process can be beautiful.  I absolutely love the Beach Boys 70s output, so this isnt mean as an insult, just a weird theory. 
63  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Another New Al Jardine Interview! on: April 11, 2012, 10:37:07 PM
Al Jardine is really pushing his new album!


"Our first single will be “That’s Why God Made The Radio,” it’s kind of an interesting song, full of harmonies and very lush arrangements. I brought in a song called “Waves Of Love,” which is a bonus track on my album but this will be a different version. It’s an up-tempo shuffle like “Help Me, Rhonda.” A very strong, guitar-driven song. I think people will like it."

"I hope we do some a capella on this tour. I’d like to try to sing one nice a capella song. I think we’re talking about this thing called “Our Prayer,” a real beautiful thing off of Smile but that‘s a pretty monstrous song, I don‘t know. That’s a lot of harmony. "   Shocked
64  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys stuff within the works of Stephen King. on: April 07, 2012, 12:26:30 PM
This makes me think of Dave Barry, who is also a big Beach Boys fan (in the surf and cars way, not the obsessive smiley smile way) as well as a friend of Steven King.

This column is about sneaking into the republican national convention to see the Mike and Bruce show:

My favorite quote: "The band at the Republican kickoff bash here was the Beach Boys. Granted, they are also largely deceased, but they still go around touring as a band consisting of backup musicians and a vial containing several ounces of Brian Wilson's saliva."

This column is about seeing the Mike and Bruce show around 1999:

But my favorite Dave Barry Beach Boys shout out, which I can't find online, is a column about how everything they play on the radio sucks, where his key example is that they NEVER play Custom Machine, which is what they would play all the time if it were up to him.
65  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Help creating tribute set-list. on: April 02, 2012, 03:06:28 AM
I would consider throwing in a lot more of the early stuff, surf and car songs.  1) those are the songs for which the Beach Boys are still most loved by many an ordinary Joe, 2) they're short, and relatively easy, so you could really crank em out, not necessarily in a medley, but just one after the other, and 3) they're super high energy, and just musically sophisticated enough (sometimes far more than just) to keep the band (and yourself) engaged. 

I might intersperse:

Surfin USA, Surfin Safari, Little Deuce Coupe, Shut Down, 409, Custom Machine, Don't Back Down, Catch a Wave and, if you have a halfway decent guitarist, Let's go Trippin and Punchline (although that'll probably freak people out just as much as something like Feel Flows). 

As the best incarnations of the live beach boys have long been demonstrating, those early songs aren't actually that incongruous with the later stuff, just throw it all together, in my opinion.
66  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: chords/tabs for TLOS and WIRWFC on: March 18, 2012, 01:14:25 AM
67  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Two questions and a cool video on: March 16, 2012, 01:06:55 PM
First the questions:
1.  One of my favorite Bruce and Terry songs is Here Comes Summer: .  It's a great song, although as it turns out a cover (with some modified lyrics) of a Jerry Keller song: .  So my question is, in Bruce and Terry's version, the genders are switched, so that they're singing about a boy.  Although it makes a great gay anthem in this incarnation, given that it was recorded in the mid sixties, I was wondering if anyone knew why they had switched around the genders, and if it was intended as a demo for a girl group or something.

2.  I was listening to Honey's songs on youtube, and I am curious about Make the Night Just a Little Bit Longer: and Raindrops: .  Neither of them are listed on Bellagio as outside productions, but the latter certainly sounds like a Brian Wilson production to me, although the former doesn't really.  Is there a complete Honey's discography listing who produced what and when somewhere on the net? 

And then, the video:

I knew that Solomon Burke had done a cover of Soul Searchin, and frankly, I thought it was kind of lackluster.  But this live version is epic, and I thought I should share. 

Thanks all!
68  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What went wrong after Holland? on: March 08, 2012, 01:34:21 AM
At some point during 15 Big Ones Carl and Dennis must have turned to each other and said "This just isn't working". And I can only guess the reason they didn't tackle the problem was for fear of upsetting a still very delicate Brian. That, or label pressure to have product "produced by Brian Wilson" no matter what.
From their perspective, they may have been willing to hold their noses on 15BO because it was all about setting Brian up for the next album.  Assuming they were happy with Love You, the plan seems to have worked.

My recollection, and I can't remember where I read this, is that there actually was a vote on whether or not to put out 15 Big Ones in its released form, that Carl and Dennis were voted down 3 to 2, and that as a result Dennis then took his songs elsewhere, whereas Carl just sort of became slowly demoralized and gave up, musically.  Also, Carlin's book has a nice two or three pages on the struggles around the release of the album that make clear how disappointed Dennis and Carl were with the record, and the complicated resentment towards Brian that existed within the band even from people like Mike and Al.   
69  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Boring life or boring music? on: February 27, 2012, 01:03:03 AM
A very good point. You also forgot to mention Brian - nervous breakdowns and drugs led directly to Pet Sounds and Smile. Even when at some of his subsequent bleakest periods (1972, say) he produced great works (Mt Vernon, Funky Pretty). When he subsequently got better in the 80's and, post Landy, into a content, comfortable homelife in the 90's, his music was nowhere near as interesting. Now this could of course be put down to talent receeding as a person gets older, which happens to many musicans, but I don't think there's any doubt the Brian's earlier manic lifestyle worked in favour of his creativity for a time.

(To counter any critism before it is written, I'm not saying i'm not incredibly happy Brian has finally found some level of peace in his life, I'm just making an observation)

Although I see your point, I'm not sure I agree.  It has always seemed to me like Brian's talent was something elemental, a force more or less detached from the details of his life - all it took for Brian was dedication and energy, which he had in spades pre-Smile, and then which slowly tapered off as his problems got worse.  And I think Brian's solo career demonstrates this pretty well; you can pretty well tell when Brian is and isn't interested, and when he's engaged he can still do incredible things - the Gershwin album comes to mind - and when he's not engaged, he'll let Joe Thomas do the backing tracks or phone in a lead vocal. Brian was not an eccentric whose mental illness led him to do spectacularly original things, although that is one way of looking at his career, I think of him more as a massively talented musician who, had he been healthy, could have given us incredible works non stop his entire life, growing musically right to the end, more in the vein of classical composers than rock stars.  As it was, his career was cut tragically short before he could even finish his most important work to date.  Nothing to celebrate there, except the fact that he overcame it, and that I'm going to see him with THE BEACH BOYS in CONCERT in just a few short months in 2012, which is unbelievable!!!!!!!!
70  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis and Carl on new album? on: February 26, 2012, 10:21:08 AM
My personal opinion is that the best tribute to Dennis and Carl would be to use their songs, but not their voices or production talent.  Pick one Dennis song and one Carl song that was never finished, perhaps "I've Got a Friend" for Dennis; I don't know Carl's catalogue very well - and then record from scratch a cover of the song with the living beach boys singing.  They could even take a song that never had words written and write new words, as long as they rerecorded the backing track from scratch.  That way the fans get a new Dennis/Carl song which they never could have heard in completed form otherwise, the record doesn't suffer from continuity issues, and Dennis and Carl get a fitting tribute to their incredible talents and a voice on the Beach Boys last album, not literally, but in the songwriting, which is where it really counts anyway. 
71  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: So Sad About BB's Career After \ on: February 06, 2012, 10:20:27 PM

no, some of us just love Carl and Dennis's music as much as we love Brian's, and don't conflate artistic success with commercial success.  It's not called denial, it's called taste.  My taste = different than your taste.  ain't rocket science.   
72  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Van Dyke Parks pulls a Mike Love over painting.... on: February 01, 2012, 02:09:21 PM
Without reading the specifics or any legal document which was filed, my first reaction is Van Dyke seems to be right on this, especially if nothing was agreed prior to the display and sale of this art. A person cannot use copyrighted material which someone else owns to make a profit, no matter how much of a fan they might be. [this is simple not true.  Fair use law includes many for-profit uses.]  Someone here could make a "Smile" T-shirt using the official logo or image for themselves and a few friends and it would be fine: As soon as you print a few hundred using a copyrighted logo and publicly offer them for sale and profit without a contract or agreement to pay royalties or whatever, it becomes a legal issue.  [That is because that particularly kind of commercial use does not fall under fair use doctrine.  The artist in question, however, does]

One other thing to remember: Frank Holmes did the official Smile artwork. His work is associated with the Smile project and his interpretation of the lyrics is the "official" version to go with the box set release. I'm wondering if perhaps there was a legal agreement or contract with Frank Holmes saying that his art is the exclusive artwork which is connected to those lyrics and the songs.  [This is, from a legal perspective, sort of absurd.  You can not have an exclusive right to artistically interpret, be inspired by, or build on another work of art.  Now, if this artist was using his artwork to try and sell bootleg copies of Smile, that would be different.]

I'm probably missing the big issue here but after reading the article I was just thinking out loud...and thinking VDP shouldn't be criticized for this if the facts are what they are.

These paintings very, very clearly fall under fair use, for the following reasons:

1. The purpose and character of the work is clearly transformative rather than derivative.   Park's words are put in an entirely new medium and context with clear artist purposes.  This is the first of the four major criteria for deciding fair use cases under US law. 

2.  The nature of the copied work (in this case Smile) as a culturally important and easily available to the public work of art.  If Van Dyke's work had not yet been published, then the artist could be accused of "stealing his thunder" so to speak, but that is clearly not the case here.  This is the second major criteria for deciding fair use under US law, although probably the least important.

3. Although the artist is quoting van dyke parks directly, those quotes are only small portions of the original work.  The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole is another of the four major fair use criteria. 

4.  Finally, although the artist is making money with his artwork, he is not interfering with Van Dyke Park's ability to make money with Park's artwork, and his paintings in no substantive way devalue Park's original work, which is the last criteria for deciding fair use. 

Thus, under US law at least this artist's work is clearly 100% legal, and Van Dyke Park's scare tactics (using the threat of lawsuits and court fees against a poor and relatively inexperienced artist without the financial means to easily defend himself) is very low indeed.
73  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What \ on: January 22, 2012, 06:39:15 PM
I'm far, far from the most knowledgeable member of this board, but my recollection is that the talk of a stereo wild honey was not actually reflective of any planned release.  What Mark and Alan were talking about was how they found the 67 version of Surf's Up, and they were saying was that they had been generally going through the entire catalogue to figure out what they had to work with, in terms of future releases and particularly future stereo remixes, and the reason Wild Honey in specific was mentioned was because they found Smile stuff on those tapes, not because Wild Honey in particular was planned for anything.
74  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE: my theory on what would have happened in '67 on: December 27, 2011, 06:00:54 PM
I dunno, I think that the Smile box set undersells what the album would have been (out of necessity of course).  So much of the music sounds like it could be finished because it sounds so great, but the tracks that were actually finished are so much richer than the unfinished ones, as much as many of us love them. Imagine a Surf's Up where the same kind of care taken with the first two minute's backing track was taken with the rest.  I strongly believe that the seemingly "lesser" tracks, like Do You Like Worms, Child is the Father of the Man, and The Elements would have been finished to the same level of complexity and detail as Cabinessence or Good Vibrations (or even Vegetables, with it's six part counterpoint harmonies on the fade).  Of course, that would have taken time, which is in my opinion the biggest reason it didn't happen. 

And while its hard to say how Smile would have done commercially, I think that artistically it would be seen as a towering, towering, earth shattering record.  In early 1967, before A Day in the Life or Strawberry Fields, Surf's Up would have absolutely blown minds. 

75  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do It Again 2011 - Snippet Unofficially Remastered on: December 17, 2011, 12:50:48 PM
Back in the 60's they used double-tracking, reverb & other tricks to mask weak vocals. The technology has changed but the intent hasn't. Sometimes things need to be sweetened to achieve a desired effect. A lot of people think that's a bad thing, that it's dishonest or it's cheating, but it's all just tools of the studio to me.

Agreed.  A friend of mine who likes the Beach Boys but isn't a big fan or anything was over once, and Hushabye was playing, and she said something along the lines of "it's beautiful, but they don't really sound like humans."  Brian Wilson's golden age records used reverb and double-tracking to make their voices sound absolutely perfect, almost unreal.  Now that the tones of their voices have changed, those techniques aren't really effective anymore, the double tracking especially just sounds odd on modern-day Brian, so they're using different studio tricks.  Reality was never the point when it comes to the Beach Boys. 
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